113 replies to this topic

[Mind]

Members have seen pictures of my cats before. We have been lucky to have very healthy felines. We currently have three that are all over 10 years of age. We had one die of cancer a few years back. We have one particular cat Lynx that is 12 years old. He has been a large cat and a little overweight most of his life. Just recently he has experienced a rapid weight loss, probably 4 or 5 pounds in the span of 3 or 4 months. He is also slower and less active than usual. Other than that, all biological functions seem to be operating ok and he seems to be comfortable and content (not in pain or distress). We have just recently decided to take him to the vet.

Common problems associated with weight loss in older cats are: liver disease, kidney disease, periodontal problems, and cancer.

We have decided to give Lynx some C60oo. We are aware that it is a highly specualtive (although non-toxic) treatment, that would probably not help with many feline disorders or diseases associated with old age. However, there is at least a tiny chance to help Lynx live longer and learn something additional about C60.

We thought about starting the treatment blindly and just noting outward appearance and activity, but since we are taking him to the vet, we will also get a blood test, so there will be a modicum of objective data.

[AdamI]

how much will u start him on?

Edited by AdamI, 10 December 2012 - 10:26 PM.

[Mind]

how much will u start him on?

Not sure. I was hoping to get some advice from the community.

[david ellis]

how much will u start him on?

Not sure. I was hoping to get some advice from the community.

Check out Turnbuckle's profile. He has recommendations (mg/kg) for dogs. I am planning to follow his recommendations. I wonder though, if Turnbuckle would recommend a larger first dose for newbees.

[Turnbuckle]

how much will u start him on?

Not sure. I was hoping to get some advice from the community.

Check out Turnbuckle's profile. He has recommendations (mg/kg) for dogs. I am planning to follow his recommendations. I wonder though, if Turnbuckle would recommend a larger first dose for newbees.

Actually, I'm not recommending it for dogs. I gave a few doses to both my middle-aged dogs six or seven months ago. And while one dog had an amazing turnaround that continues today (and the other had no specific problem to begin with), both seemed more sensitive to fleas afterward, requiring daily antihistimes. I'm aware that others who gave it to their animals didn't see this problem, so maybe it has something to do with their diet as well.

[david ellis]

how much will u start him on?

Not sure. I was hoping to get some advice from the community.

Check out Turnbuckle's profile. He has recommendations (mg/kg) for dogs. I am planning to follow his recommendations. I wonder though, if Turnbuckle would recommend a larger first dose for newbees.

Actually, I'm not recommending it for dogs. I gave a few doses to both my middle-aged dogs six or seven months ago. And while one dog had an amazing turnaround that continues today (and the other had no specific problem to begin with), both seemed more sensitive to fleas afterward, requiring daily antihistimes. I'm aware that others who gave it to their animals didn't see this problem, so maybe it has something to do with their diet as well.

Hopefully, your dogs will recover. Mine, she was itchy for 4-5 months. I don't know the cause, my suspects are the dog food and a off-brand flea preventative. Her seizures got worse in this period, and the blood work showed high sodium. The expensive dog food was 95% of her diet, so I changed brands. If she gets sick again, I am going to taste her food. She is well now, and fewer seizures than ever.

Do you think that a larger dose at the beginning of the regimen to speed up membrane saturation is a good idea?

[Turnbuckle]

how much will u start him on?

Not sure. I was hoping to get some advice from the community.

Check out Turnbuckle's profile. He has recommendations (mg/kg) for dogs. I am planning to follow his recommendations. I wonder though, if Turnbuckle would recommend a larger first dose for newbees.

Actually, I'm not recommending it for dogs. I gave a few doses to both my middle-aged dogs six or seven months ago. And while one dog had an amazing turnaround that continues today (and the other had no specific problem to begin with), both seemed more sensitive to fleas afterward, requiring daily antihistimes. I'm aware that others who gave it to their animals didn't see this problem, so maybe it has something to do with their diet as well.

Hopefully, your dogs will recover. Mine, she was itchy for 4-5 months. I don't know the cause, my suspects are the dog food and a off-brand flea preventative. Her seizures got worse in this period, and the blood work showed high sodium. The expensive dog food was 95% of her diet, so I changed brands. If she gets sick again, I am going to taste her food. She is well now, and fewer seizures than ever.

Do you think that a larger dose at the beginning of the regimen to speed up membrane saturation is a good idea?

No. I'd give them a single dose and stop for a week. That might be sufficient. You can alway give them more if the first dose doesn't work.

[niner]

how much will u start him on?

Not sure. I was hoping to get some advice from the community.

It doesn't take much. Maybe a quarter of a milliliter? (0.2mg) Even less would probably be fine. The hope would be that whatever is wrong with lynx is something that c60 might help with. Big old cats often have kidney issues, and there's at least an outside chance that c60 could help a nephritis. One of the tricks with kids and pets is getting them to eat whatever it is you're trying to dose them with. Put it on tuna fish, maybe? Cats are carnivores, so fats and oils should be right up their alley. There's a lot of latitude with dosing c60-oo. The upper limit seems to be determined by the amount of olive oil you can stomach in a sitting. Anthony was downing close to a half pint a day for a while. I think the most recent dose that Turnbuckle mentioned taking was somewhere around 2mg, once a week.

[Mind]

Thanks for the advice Niner. We will probably try mixing it with tuna for the first go around. Oddly, Lynx does not like raw wild meat. Our other cats go crazy over it. We adopted Lynx when he was about 6 and we suspect he was eating a lot of people food with his previous owners, because he wants to eat cake, ice cream, and mac-n-cheese. We barely give him any snacks like that of course.

Edited by Mind, 12 December 2012 - 07:47 PM.

[Mind]

Lynx was at the doctor's office today and they could not find any obvious symptoms of disease through manual physical evaluation. They took a blood sample. We will get the results in a day or so.

[Mind]

We got Lynx's blood test back today. Everything checked out fine for his age, except hematocrit. This was quite low. The doctors could only speculate as to why (a blood-based pathogen, similar to lyme, perhaps). And, if you are familiar with pets-n-vets, the default option is to just give them antibiotics. So now Lynx is getting doxycycline, 50mg per day. Which confounds our experiment with C60oo of course. But, this is not a lab. It is a shot-in-the-dark but perhaps we can learn something, and Lynx might live longer.

Lynx got his first dose of C60oo today. I went with 0.30ml. How often should we dose? Turnbuckle seems to be suggesting once per week.

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Edited by Mind, 15 December 2012 - 01:16 PM.

[Mind]

Here are the blood test results. Very comprehensive. Hopefully comprehensive enough that in the remote chance that C60oo proves to be a beneficial treatment, we might be able to glean some objective evidence as to its action.

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[niner]

Here are the blood test results. Very comprehensive. Hopefully comprehensive enough that in the remote chance that C60oo proves to be a beneficial treatment, we might be able to glean some objective evidence as to its action.

Lynx is showing a Rouleaux formation (erythrocytes forming sticking together in stacks), according to the notation at the bottom of the results. If this has an inflammatory cause, then c60 might help. There's a lot of other causes though. The antibiotic isn't a bad idea in this case. I just hope that Lynx gets better, and don't really expect to learn much here, because her his symptoms have such numerous and nonspecific causes. I'd be inclined to use intermittent dosing here, rather than daily. It wouldn't have to be all at once; but could be spread over a couple days with a week or two in between.

Edit: Sorry, Lynx...

Edited by niner, 17 December 2012 - 10:27 PM.

[zen]

Here are the blood test results. Very comprehensive. Hopefully comprehensive enough that in the remote chance that C60oo proves to be a beneficial treatment, we might be able to glean some objective evidence as to its action.

Lynx is showing a Rouleaux formation (erythrocytes forming sticking together in stacks), according to the notation at the bottom of the results. If this has an inflammatory cause, then c60 might help. There's a lot of other causes though. The antibiotic isn't a bad idea in this case. I just hope that Lynx gets better, and don't really expect to learn much here, because her symptoms have such numerous and nonspecific causes. I'd be inclined to use intermittent dosing here, rather than daily. It wouldn't have to be all at once; but could be spread over a couple days with a week or two in between.

Is this something similar to what is shown in this Goji Berry video?

[Mind]

The docs said that the clumping was not too out of the ordinary, but something they are going to keep an eye on, and some of the reasoning for the anti-biotics.

[AgeVivo]

Baati et al first fed the rats daily during a week so perhaps it is better to give repeated doses during one week or two; however myself I would go like you for once a week c60 feeding in order to avoid some unexpected troubles in cats, who knows.

[YOLF]

I'll be watching this. I have some of the Vaughner C60 on it's way and plan to try it out on my cat (15) too. It'd be pretty cool to have pets that lived indefinitely alongside their owners. I'm hoping to see radical life extension that was shown in the rats. Is there any reason this might not be the case with a slightly larger feline "rodent?"

[niner]

Is there any reason this might not be the case with a slightly larger feline "rodent?"

Yeah, unfortunately I don't think you will see anything close to the full effect when it's started so late in life. Also, cats are a lot longer-lived than rats, so instead of a 90% increase in lifespan as a best case scenario (assuming you started when your cat was young) it would be something less. Exactly how much less, I couldn't say... I think it could still be helpful, though, even with an elderly cat.

[YOLF]

perhaps a more aggressive treatment would achieve escape aging velocity? I guess we'd need to know more about how this stuff actually works before we can begin to support it's action with everything in the vitamin cabinet.

[Mind]

I would like for my pets to live a lot longer too, but the things we use to "square the healthspan curve" in humans might not work so well in pets, but I think some things are worth a try.

[Mind]

Lynx got another 0.30ml today but then he vomited about an hour later so maybe he did not get much of the C60. He is still thin and slow. It seems he has a slightly better appetite in the past week. He is going to the doc again next week for a check-up.

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[Kevnzworld]

I have an older cat too. She's now 18. She throws up a lot, generally if she's constipated. I know this because I see her straining. Cats as they age sometimes have failing kidneys resulting in elevated levels of ammonia, which causes them to vomit. I hope lynx's health improves. Get his kidney function tested.

I have an older cat too. She's now 18. She throws up a lot, generally if she's constipated. I know this because I see her straining. Cats as they age sometimes have failing kidneys resulting in elevated levels of ammonia, which causes them to vomit. I hope lynx's health improves. Get his kidney function tested.

[YOLF]

I know the livers of the rats in Bhati et al were show to be more healthy than the controls, how about kidneys? I imagine C60 will be very beneficial.

[Mind]

Lynx was at the doctor's office again today. Lynx has lost 4 ounces in weight since the last visit, Other than continuing to lose weight, it seems he is very slightly improved. He still has an appetite (but only eats small amounts). He has fairly normal urine and bowel movements. He got another blood test and the results should be in tomorrow. The last blood test seemed to indicate fairly normal liver and kidney function.

[Turnbuckle]

I know the livers of the rats in Bhati et al were show to be more healthy than the controls, how about kidneys? I imagine C60 will be very beneficial.

Keep in mind that these rats were dosed with CCl4.

[YOLF]

This is the first i've read that something else was present. So what is CCl4 then? Is it known to protect the liver? I huess I may have to read that study myself.

[Turnbuckle]

This is the first i've read that something else was present. So what is CCl4 then? Is it known to protect the liver? I huess I may have to read that study myself.

Carbon tetrachloride is great for degenerating the liver, if that's what you want.

[YOLF]

Nope definitely trying to prolong life and preserve liver. So the Bhaati rats were given CCl4 in addition to C60? I don't understand where CCl4 comes into the study. Why use multiple substances that were thought to be toxic and the C60 protected the liver from the CCl4?

[Turnbuckle]

Why use multiple substances that were thought to be toxic and the C60 protected the liver from the CCl4?

Evidently they were showing that C60 as an antioxidant could moderate an acute exposure to a known toxin, and seeing good results they looked for long term toxicity of the C60 itself.

[hav]

I have an older cat too. She's now 18. She throws up a lot, generally if she's constipated. I know this because I see her straining. Cats as they age sometimes have failing kidneys resulting in elevated levels of ammonia, which causes them to vomit. I hope lynx's health improves. Get his kidney function tested.

I have an older cat too. She's now 18. She throws up a lot, generally if she's constipated. I know this because I see her straining. Cats as they age sometimes have failing kidneys resulting in elevated levels of ammonia, which causes them to vomit. I hope lynx's health improves. Get his kidney function tested.

My last 2 cats were Persians and both expired of kidney failure at 13 years of age. Our current cat is a Bombay and, to promote a different outcome, we've had her on a resveratrol/astragalus alternate weekly cycle (same as that of my wife and I) since she was around a year old. And and year later (the last six months) she started c60/evoo when we did. Will start a thread on her with more details.

Howard