2214 replies to this topic

[Julia36]

[<-Retroidict ]

Edited by Innocent, 08 January 2014 - 10:59 PM.

[Julia36]

QUANTUM ARCHAEOLOGY.

How Science is trying to resurrect the dead.





"All great truths begin as blasphemies."
George Bernard Shaw

• Micro Map of the past being created.
• Quantum computers and new maths to calculate detailed histories and memories of everyone dead.
• Face and body reconstructions a million years old already achieved: mind reconstructions coming.
• 106 billion people to be resurrected within 40 years.

• A Child's Guide to Quantum Archaeology (300 words) <~ start here!!!
• Short version (3,000 words)

• The Quantum Archaeology Grid

• Recursive Civilization

• XYLEM

• Turing Church Workshop Paper

• The Lazarus Long Delusion

MAIN ARTICLE:~~>http://web.archive.o...rchaeologyfile/



All processes- no matter how complex - are reversible.

Edited by Innocent, 09 January 2014 - 07:40 AM.

[Julia36]

Humans in Britain periodically for at least a million years.

Edited by Innocent, 09 January 2014 - 07:55 AM.

[Julia36]

Scientists plan to resurrect a range of extinct animals using DNA and cloning


http://www.courierma...6-1226626834888

April 2013

"...
The cloned embryos all died within a few days.
Australian teams are also working on reviving the Tasmanian tiger with DNA obtained from an ethanol-preserved pup of the dog-like, marsupial predator that died out in the 1930s.
In Japan, geneticists said in 2011 they planned to use DNA from frozen carcasses to resurrect within six years the woolly mammoth which died out during the last Ice Age.
And in Britain, Oxford University scientists have obtained genetic data from museum-held remains of the dodo, the flightless Indian Ocean island bird hunted to extinction by 1680.
Scientists believe reconstruction would be feasible for most animals for which DNA has survived, possibly going back 200,000 years - a limit that would exclude a "Jurassic Park"-like revival of the dinosaurs.
The DNA sample would have to be well preserved and techniques would have to improve to reduce the risk of deformity, miscarriage and premature death, a characteristic of animal cloning today."

The astonishing thing is we no longer need surviving DNA to accurately recreate an extinct species IF we can calculte what it MUST have been.

That is feasible by constructing a detailed grid of the past by plotting back and doing vast calculations that use the laws of physics.
With the advent of A.I. such complex machine maths will be available from about 2022
as the Age of Artificial intelligence breaks.



A

[Julia36]

Homes of the near Future.


Vincent Callebaut Architectures


Engineers create robot muscles 1,000 times stronger than yours

dec 23rd



"UC Berkeley Lab is reporting that they have developed robot muscles that are 1,000 times the strength of the average human." more

http://www.dvice.com...-stronger-yours

[Julia36]

http://www.epictv.com/b

[Julia36]

This Orb-Shaped Solar Power Device Works On The Cloudiest Days

Jan 8th 2014

http://blogs.smithso.../#ixzz2ptP9ImhA

Edited by Innocent, 09 January 2014 - 09:43 AM.

[platypus]

Do you have any quantitative speculation instead of just qualitative?

[Julia36]

Do you have any quantitative speculation instead of just qualitative?

You're question's struck out under the ad hominem, rule platypus.

These are the 38 rules and devices you cannot breech nor use:
http://www.mnei.nl/s...-stratagems.htm

Other than those and the forum rules feel free to post anything including questions on computing archaeology and recovery of data from multiple perspectives.issue. Death is divisive & QA thrown off wikipedia and google, but as philosophers we can cover it.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Biology Of Genomes
May 6 - 10, 2014
Abstract Deadline: February 21, 2014



http://meetings.cshl.../genome14.shtml

last year

2013 MEETINGS
Wiring the Brain Metabolic Signaling & Disease: From Cell to Organism Eukaryotic mRNA Processing Mechanisms of Eukaryotic Transcription Neurogenetics & Behavior of Nonhuman Primates Eukaryotic DNA Replication & Genome Maintenance Microbial Pathogenesis & Host Response Stem Cell Biology Neurobiology of Drosophila Cell Death Genome Informatics Cell Biology of Yeasts Precision Medicine: Personal Genomics & Pharmacogenomics Harnessing Immunity to Prevent & Treat Disease Plant Genomes & Biotechnology: From Genes to Networks Rat Genomics & Models


Epigenetics and Rats.


+ video short
http://learn.genetic...igenetics/rats/

Edited by Innocent, 09 January 2014 - 05:21 PM.

[Julia36]

What Google Glass does.



-rumoured to be available for you in April. how to get one.

http://www.google.co...t/what-it-does/

It might make researching tons easier.
It will also accelerate data combinations and mining, pattern spotting as prediction, and problem solving better (artificial intelligence).

The environment is being convertible to data.
When we reaching a tipping point enough data from the past will be describable to enable resurrection.

[Julia36]

Tomb of pharaoh Sobekhotep I discovered



http://www.dailymail...s_campaign=1490

today

"Sekhemre Khutawy Sobekhotep (now believed to be Sobekhotep I; known as Sobekhotep II in older studies) was an Egyptian pharaoh of the 13th Dynasty during the Second Intermediate Period who reigned for at least 3 years c. 1800 BC. His chronological position is much debated, Sekhemre Khutawy Sobekhotep being either the founder of the dynasty, in which case he is called Sobekhotep I, or its twentieth ruler, in which case he is called Sobekhotep II. In his 1997 study of the second intermediate period, the Egyptologist Kim Ryholt makes a strong case for Sekhemre Khutawy Sobekhotep as the founder of the dynasty, a hypothesis that is now dominant in Egyptology.^[1][3] His tomb was discovered in Abydos in 2013, but not positively identified as his until January 2014." wiki




The Turin King List, an Ancient Egyptian papyrus
dating from the reign of Rameses II,
includes Sobekhotep I (image via crystalinks.com)

Edited by Innocent, 09 January 2014 - 08:52 PM.

[Julia36]

ROOT CARNIVOR OF MAMMAL TREE DISCOVERED AS QUANTUM ARCHAEOLOGY GRID ADVANCES.




http://news.national...nivore-science/

"January 9, 2014
Pouncing lions, fish-swallowing seals, and even your bone-chewing family dog can all trace their roots back to a small, tree-dwelling ancestor. Bones unearthed from a 55-million-year-old fossil trove have revealed a diminutive creature at or near the root of today's formidable lineage of carnivorous mammals.
Paleontologist Floréal Solé of the Royal Belgian Institute of Natural Sciences and a team of colleagues recently described more than 250 new teeth, jaw, and ankle bone specimens of Dormaalocyon latouri, named for the Belgian locality of Dormaal where the fossil was first found in a site long famed for early Eocene epoch remains.
Fossilized jaw bones and teeth, including baby teeth, provide valuable evidence of the ancient animal's taste for flesh. According to Solé, Dormaalocyon is the most primitive known member of the carnivoraforms group. That group is represented by today's 280-plus species of living carnivorous mammals, the order Carnivora, which includes lions, seals, bears, cats, dogs, and others—all of which count this creature as their ancestor." more



the vast, complex archaeology gird is being assembled by artefact discovery.
At some point enough data banks will enable all the rest to be calculated, and read off for any moment in time past.

Edited by Innocent, 09 January 2014 - 09:44 PM.

[Julia36]

History is reversible: nothing ocurrs outside the laws of physics:



Germany surrenders to France on a railway carriage, 1918.



France surrenders to Germany on the same railway carriage, 1940.

Hitler had it blown up, wrongly believing History is fixed.




Relica today, invoking the Ship of Theseus problem in philosophy..

[Julia36]

New Clues to How Bacteria Evade Antibiotics




"Jan. 9, 2014 — Scientists have made an important advance in understanding how a subset of bacterial cells escape being killed by many antibiotics.



Cells become "persisters" by entering a state in which they stop replicating and are able to tolerate antibiotics. Unlike antibiotic resistance, which arises because of genetic mutations and is passed on to later generations, this tolerant phase is only temporary, but it may contribute to the later development of resistance.
In a new study in the journal Science, researchers from the MRC Centre for Molecular Bacteriology and Infection at Imperial College London have succeeded in visualising persister cells in infected tissues for the first time, and have identified signals that lead to their formation."
more

great article

http://www.scienceda...40109143715.htm

Edited by Innocent, 09 January 2014 - 09:53 PM.

[platypus]

Do you have any quantitative speculation instead of just qualitative?

You're question's struck out under the ad hominem, rule platypus.

My comment was about your argumentation, not your persona.

[Julia36]

Do you have any quantitative speculation instead of just qualitative?

You're question's struck out under the ad hominem, rule platypus.

My comment was about your argumentation, not your persona.

Could you be specific platypus
you want numbers about computing power needed for resurrection eg computer flops? What calculations are needed to simulate a person? A deceased person? All deceased people? The past environment?


Figures you may find helpful were set out eg by Professors Frank Tipler (Tulane:"The Physics of Immortality") and Nick Bostrom (Oxford: "Superintelligence" due summer).



Nick Bostrom vids

https://archive.org/...strom_2005G.gif

https://archive.org/...ckBostrom_2005G


Tipler states the maximum possible degrees of freedom any human being is capable of massive number - I think OTTOMH 10^28^123 (cited)
and Bostrom that a simulation of the earth could be achieved with OTTOMH
10^45 flops (Simulation argument)

although Richard Dawkins savages the argument as a back-door-to-God in video, I haven't seen them yet.
Richard Dawkins VIDEO debunking the Deistic God of Transhumanism and the Simulation Argument


As a philosopher I cant be interested in exact estimates which have to be conjecture @ best and must defer to scientists who have skills there.

The philosophy principle is sound though:

human beings past and present as reducible to physics and the physics will be described in mathematics: computers are machines that do mathematics faster than men, when programmed to do so, and machine intelligence (A.I.) is growing to a point where it will achieve self-recursion: it is highly probable that it will make models of the past in split seconds - accurate simulations, that include all the dead, and there is no difference in principle between thoughts and any other archaeological artefacts.


I suspect but do not know, as Robert Ettinger would say, that any present estimates are wrong, so it is easier to examine the veracity of principles which need not be speculative.

Resurrection, as a principle, has already been proven with Joe Thornton and other's work.

Once a principle or concept has been shown correct, my own method is not to keep doing it One proof of concept is enough, subject only to checking it was not a flawed experiment.

You'll recall Joseph Thornton re-calculated a biological proton pump which had been extinct for 800 million years. (google)
He then tested it worked by inserting it into yeast: and it worked as expected.

podcast Nature 2012, although he'd been on it a long time:
Prehistoric proteins: Raising the dead


The methods he used to male an archaeological map of it were causation and probability from present day things.

Quantum Archaeology looks at the principles by which things of humankind's past can be exactly pinpointed and accurately & dynamically described.

The other bit of QA is the principle of advancing technology.

It is obvious that technology is getting faster, better, smaller
Microrobots are getting smaller and Paul Benioff http://www.researchg...ul_Benioff/ at Argonne National Laboratory has already ideated quantum robots...microrobots acting in the quantum world ( scales under 100 billionths of a meter) carrying quantum computers on their backs. Human relevant parts have been said to be no smaller than 5 nanometres, but even if they are smaller, eventually they will amenable to advancing technology, to both measure and operate upon.

It is foreseeable that however small human relevant parts are, they - like all other systems - will have dynamic parameters. That means describable and calculable.

It is the principles of Quantum Archaeology then that this thread is trying to establish. I never meant to go so far with it, only kick it into debate.
A philosopher's work is to establish whether something is possible and by what means it must be so.

Short answer: the science of quantum archaeology must be left to scientists or I & other philosophers attempting it will look fools.

Edited by Innocent, 10 January 2014 - 02:28 PM.

[Julia36]

Physics Professor Jim Al-Khalil torturing the Royal Institution

Edited by Innocent, 10 January 2014 - 02:22 PM.

[Julia36]

1200th anniversary of the death of Charlemagne celebrations in Europe.



Tomb and bones, including his famous hand invoked by the Nazis on display in Aachen Cathedral

note Google is going into Archaeology by osmosis

Google Earth Zooms in on Ancient Trade Routes


It is obvious maps of the past are being drawn uo - not only from our historical representations we insist are increasingly accurate - but so are many other data bases, and The Quantum Archaeology Grid proposes synthesising them.

"
The Bayeux Tapestry (French: Tapisserie de Bayeux, IPA: [tapis&#641;i d&#601; bajø], Norman: La telle du conquest) is an embroidered cloth—not an actual tapestry—nearly 70 metres (230 ft) long, which depicts the events leading up to the Norman conquest of England concerning William, Duke of Normandy, and Harold, Earl of Wessex, later King of England, and culminating in the Battle of Hastings.
According to Sylvette Lemagnen, conservator of the tapestry,

The Bayeux tapestry is one of the supreme achievements of the Norman Romanesque, ... Its survival almost intact over nine centuries is little short of miraculous, ... Its exceptional length, the harmony and freshness of its colors, its exquisite workmanship, and the genius of its guiding spirit combine to make it endlessly fascinating.^[1]

The tapestry consists of some fifty scenes with Latin tituli (captions), embroidered on linen with coloured woollen yarns. It is likely that it was commissioned by Bishop Odo, William's half-brother, and made in England—not Bayeux—in the 1070s. In 1729 the hanging was rediscovered by scholars at a time when it was being displayed annually in Bayeux Cathedral. The tapestry is now exhibited at Musée de la Tapisserie de Bayeux in Bayeux, Normandy, France." wiki more

Edited by Innocent, 10 January 2014 - 02:47 PM.

[platypus]

How about speculation on where the sensor network needs to be placed, what it will look like, and what is the approximate cost. Don't you need more sensors than computing power, so to speak?

[Julia36]

How about speculation on where the sensor network needs to be placed, what it will look like, and what is the approximate cost. Don't you need more sensors than computing power, so to speak?

I dont know what you mean by sensors.

QA is by calculations, not by scanning.

Scanning is hurtling forward, observing smaller and more complicated processes (same thing).

We scan into the quantum world already, but the quantum scale is the smalest possible (that's how it's defined) so shirnking scales will carry on indefinately (itls a philsophical chetnut if there's ever a minimum size)

We need enough of the laws of physics and enough samples of things, eg artefacts
to then calculate the rest of them.

This must be so since al things are related, and nothing in the universe is not connected to another thing - which in turn is connected to others.

From one thing, knowing enough of the laws of science, and having enough calculation power you can can deduce enormous amounts about others.

From many things, the whole area is describable, present and past.

BTW Cause & Effect underpins Quantum actions, no doubt about it in my mind.which I'd wager will all be revealed to be deterministic. Physics seem lazy looking for a mystical description of complex actions & I predict they will be ridiculed for lectures like the one above.

Properties of the quantum world are not yet understood. There must be many properties of quantum particles that will explain the readings from double slit experiments.





Gaming finally has its day at CES 2014

After years of taking a back seat at the world's largest consumer electronics show, gaming finally rises to the occasion.

Read more: http://www.cnet.com/.../#ixzz2q0eBVoFL

The ability to make realistic and complex games is directly linked to Artificial Intelligence calculation and complexity, needed to raise the dead.

Edited by Innocent, 10 January 2014 - 03:36 PM.

[Julia36]

http://www.ft.com/cm...dc0.html#slide0

Financial Times slide show of CES.




fast sports and self-drive hydrogen (water) - powered cars ces 2014

[platypus]

How about speculation on where the sensor network needs to be placed, what it will look like, and what is the approximate cost. Don't you need more sensors than computing power, so to speak?

From one thing, knowing enough of the laws of science, and having enough calculation power you can can deduce enormous amounts about others.

That won't work due to underdetermination. So you need a vast sensor network. Could you work out some of the details, in back of the envelope style?

[Julia36]

http://www.sengpiela...culator-ohm.htm



Deutsche Version

Electric Current, Electric Power, Electrical Voltage

Electricity and Electric Charge

&#9679; Formulas and Calculations&#9679;

The relationship between electrical parameters
Electric voltage V, amperage I, resistivity R, impedance Z, wattage and power P
VoltV, ampere A, resistance and impedance Ω, and watt W

The nominal impedance Z = 4, 8, and 16 ohms (loudspeakers) is often assumed as resistance R.
Ohm's law equation (formula): V = I × R and the power law equation (formula): P = I × V.
P = power, I or J = Latin: influare, international ampere, or intensity and R = resistance.
V = voltage, electric potential difference Δ V or E = electro motive force (EMF = voltage).
Enter any two known values and press "calculate" to solve for the two others. Please, enter only two values.

Voltage or volts E or V volts V Amperage or current I amperes, amps A Resistivity or resistance R ohms Ω Wattage or power P watts W For R take impedance Z Basic Principles of Electric Circuits
Physics Formulary and Electricity Equations Formula wheel &#9660; Important formulas Electrical engineering laws Electronic engineering laws Electrical formulas as circle diagram (pie chart)

The Formula Wheel of Electrical Engineering

V comes from "voltage" and E from "electromotive force". E means also energy, so V is chosen. Energy = voltage × charge. E = V × Q. Some like better to stick to E instead to V, so do it.
Voltage V = I × R = P / I = √(P × R) in volts V Current I = V / R = P / V = √(P / R) in amperes A
Resistance R = V / I = P / I² = V² / P in ohms Ω Power P = V × I = R × I² = V² / R in watts W

See also: The Formula Wheel of Acoustics (Audio)

The Big <a href="http://www.google.co...rmula&filter=0" target="_blank">Power Formulas
Electrical and mechanical power calculation
Formula 1 − Electrical power equation: Power P = I × V = R × I² = V² ⁄ R
where power P is in watts, voltage V is in volts and current I is in amperes (DC).
If there is AC, look also at the power factor PF = cos φ and φ = power factor angle
(phase angle) between voltage and amperage.

Formula 2 − Mechanical power equation: Power P = E ⁄ t = W ⁄ t
where power P is in watts, Energy E is in joules, and time t is in seconds. 1 W = 1 J/s.
Power = force multiplied by displacement divided by time P = F × s / t or:
Power = force multiplied by speed (velocity) P = F × v.
Electric Energy is E = P × t − measured in watt-hours, or also in kWh. 1J = 1N×m = 1W×s

Undistorted powerful sound is not found in these formulas. Please, mind your ears!
The eardrum and microphone diaphragms are really only moved by the waves of the
sound pressure. That does not do either the intensity, nor the power or the energy.
If you are in the audio recording business, it is wise not to care much about the energy,
power and intensity as the cause, care more about the effect of sound pressure p
and sound pressure level at the ears and at the microphones and look at the corresponding
audio voltage V ~ p; see: Sound pressure and Sound power − Effect and Cause
Very loud sounding speakers will have a lot of power, but better look closer at the very
important efficiency of loudspeakers. This includes the typical question:
How many decibels (dB) are actually twice or three times as loud?
There is really no RMS power. The words "RMS power" are not correct. There is a calculation
of power which is the multiplication of a RMS voltage and a RMS current.
Watts RMS is meaningless. In fact, we use that term as an extreme shorthand for power in watts calculated from measuring the RMS voltage. Please, read here:
Why there is no such thing as 'RMS watts' or 'watts RMS' and never has been.
"RMS" power is a rather silly term which has gathered currency among audio people.
Power is the amount of energy that is converted to a unit of time. Expect to pay more when demanding higher power.


In sound engineering there is no Impedance matching or Power matching.
In audio we use only high Impedance bridging or Voltage bridging.



Power is like all energy sizes
primarily a calculated value.



The word "power amplifier" is a misnomer - especially in audio engineering.
Voltage and current can be amplified. The strange term "power amplifier" has become understood to mean an amplifier that is intended to drive a load such as a loudspeaker.
We call the product of current and voltage gain "power amplification".

Courtesy of Brian Willis and Causeway Art Studio

Tip: The electric power triangle (power formula)

Please enter two values, the third value will be calculated.

Electric power P watts Voltage V volts Amperage I amps

The magic triangle can be used to calculate all formulas of the "electric power law". You hide with
a finger the value to be calculated. The other two values show then how to do the calculation.

Calculations: Ohm's law - Ohm's magic triangle
Measurement of input impedance and output impedance

ALTERNATING CURRENT (AC) ~

V_l = line voltage (volts), V_p = phase voltage (volts), I_l = line current (amps), I_p = phase current (amps)
Z = impedance (ohms), P = power (watts), φ = power factor angle, VAR = volt-amperes (reactive)

Current (single phase): I = P / V_p×cos φ Current (3 phases): I = P / √3 V_l×cos φ or I = P / 3 V_p×cos φ Power (single phase): P = V_p×I_p×cos φ Power (3 phases): P = √3 V_l×I_l×cos φ or P = √3 V_p×I_p×cos φ Power factor PF = cos φ = R/(R2 + X2)^1/2, φ = power factor angle. For the purely resistive circuit, PF = 1 (perfect).
The apparent power S is calculated according to Pythagoras, the active power P and reactive power Q. S = √(P² + Q²)

The true power factor and not the conventional 50/60 Hz displacement power factor

Electrical Measurement Definitions Quantity Name Definition frequency f hertz (Hz) 1/s force F newton (N) kg·m/s² pressure p pascal (Pa) = N/m² kg/m·s² energy E work joule (J) = N·m kg·m²/s² power P watt (W) = J/s kg·m²/s³ electric charge Q coulomb © = A·s A·s voltage V volt (V)= W/A kg·m²/A·s³ capacitance C farad (F)= C/V = A·s/V = s/Ω A²·s⁴/kg·m² inductance L henry (H) = Wb/A = V·s/A kg·m²/A²·s² resistance R ohm (Ω) = V/A kg·m²A²·s³ conductance G siemens (S) = A/V A²·s³/kg·m² magnetic flux Φ weber (Wb) = V·s kg·m²/A·s² flux density B tesla (T) = Wb/m² = V·s/m² kg/A·s²
The flow of electric charge Q is referred to as an electric current I. The amount of charge per unit time is the change in electric current. A current flows at a constant value I. during the time t, it transports the charge Q = I × t. For a temporally constant power, the relationship between the charge and current:
I = Q / t or Q = I × t. Through this relationship, the basic units of amps and second the Coulomb in International System of Units is set. The Coulomb unit can be represented as 1 C = 1 A × s.

In acoustics we have an "Acoustic equivalent for ohm's law"

Relationships of acoustic sizes associated with plane progressive sound waves

Conversions of many units, like power and energy

prefixes | length | area | volume | weight | pressure | temperature | time | energy | power | density | velocity | acceleration | force

[top of page]

back Search Engine home

Edited by Innocent, 10 January 2014 - 03:55 PM.

[Julia36]

All this can be reduced to computer programmes. I argue with mathematicians that all maths is doable by present computers: we only lack the software.

But as Machine Intelligence gears up, it will load and programme itself.

The age of Robots will hit in 2015.

The age of Machine Intelligence will hit by 2022.

Before 2025 Resurrection of the Dead will be possible.

[Julia36]

First 10 Minutes with Mathematica 8 - Wolfram Research




Mathematica - Wikipedia

"Mathematica is a computational software program used in many scientific, engineering, mathematical and computing fields, based on symbolic mathematics. It was conceived by Stephen Wolfram and is developed by Wolfram.."

Machine systems can already be built to search and programme, pioneered in England during the 1980s.
(eg Autonomy Lite)
When they are pushed more they must overnight replace human programmers and mathematicians:)

[Julia36]

S. Harris books:
Academia | Business | Environment | Food | Law | Medicine | Psychology | Science

Edited by Innocent, 10 January 2014 - 04:11 PM.

[Julia36]

improving gifs


No part of the world - therefore no part of man - is outside the laws of science

Edited by Innocent, 10 January 2014 - 04:22 PM.

[Julia36]

http://ces.cnet.com/...10019388-4.html

3D Laser Printer CES

Edited by Innocent, 10 January 2014 - 04:49 PM.

[platypus]

Sensor network in order to overcome massive underdetermination? You have chosen to ignore this problem so far, how about doing some work in assessing the problem quantitatively?

[Julia36]

Star Wars-style 3D hologram phones coming




"
It has been pioneered by experts at Leia Display Systems, a Polish company named after the film’s heroine.
And the firm’s chief executive Marcin Panek said: “Our holograms will take video phone calls to the next level.”
To make a call, the person sits in front of a high tech camera which has two lenses and a microphone. The two images formed by the lenses are blended together and then streamed through the internet to the person on the other end of the line.
A hologram machine then receives the images and projects them onto a screen of water vapour.
Mr Panek said: “We are on the frontier of technology that was imagined in movies 40 years ago - it is science fiction becoming science fact.
“It will be as if loved ones, friends and family are standing right in front of you while you talk with them halfway across the world.
“At the moment, our holograms are made using machines that are more than six feet high but we are designing smaller versions that can be set up on a coffee table in a living room.
“It’s incredible. Ten years ago people would have been astounded at the idea of tablet devices but now they are everywhere.
“It will be the same with holograms. It is still early days but..." more

http://www.mirror.co...9#ixzz2q0z0wQMa