2214 replies to this topic

[Julia36]

Computers will be 'alive' in the next 15 years or so (based on trends in calculation, nanotech, robotics and maths)

[Julia36]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7BxMFytc9Y

One of the great minds in science, Joe Thornton who demonstrated resurrection of prehistoric micro parts here talking about signalling.

NB Nowhere in science do things not act by laws It ,is unclear yet how small we will need to go to resurrect men, but so long as everything is governed by laws, size is no object, because the dead can wait.

They can be resurrected without any loss of consciousness

The tree of life traces the evolution of a life form in Phylogenetics (evolutionary relationships)
but there is missing data.

Quantum Archaeology ideates a way of calculating missing data by vast cross-referencing both across species and across the environment using The Quantum Archaeology Grid..

Curious to note that Darwin, hailed as a genius when he published Origin in 1859 was almost unread by 1900, and that an idea can get strangled or just abandoned which could have moved the axis of the world.

Edited by Innocent, 02 June 2013 - 02:20 PM.

[Julia36]

I'm trying to set down the propositions of Quantum Archaeology.
Cryonics and QA will need extreme calculation & microrobotics to be successful.
Those are expected in the late 2020's on trends.
There seem to be many assumed notions and these must be dismissed.

Meths is simply symbols and the rules that govern them.

It shoud n't be made more complex.

Maths is true, but it is not real.
Reality is the totality of something and that could never be exhaustive in infinite systems in maths.

But truth is just what is correct within the system of symbols and rules...error free within them.

So great maths is error free,obeying the rules. It's a system.

It's also clear humans cant do the vomplexity needed for resurrectionand cryonic recovery and will need machine intelligence.




We're making loads of assumptions, eg that we can deconstruct to quantum parts but will still find human bits valuable....

eg that there wpont be a mad scramble for ascendency on achiving superintelligence,
leaving most people, for whoever builds Superintelligence first will control the future.
Why would they want to share it with people when they can replicate any people past and present they wish to, in any quantity?
Verner Vinge's warning in 1993 was that A.I. was safer coming as Intelligence Amplification.
So far that's been good.

Edited by Innocent, 03 June 2013 - 06:14 PM.

[Julia36]

FOR NEWBIES:

Quantum Archeology - also known as quantum information retrieval, is a controversial and emerging idea about information retrieval in transhumanist and futurist philosophy written and debated about (see 'Notes' below) at universities and in books and on forums like Ray Kurzweil's MINDX. One of it's most acute theories describes a possible method for raising the ancient dead using advancing statistical quantum calculations by treating a person as a data set at a defined point of spacetime and seeking to accurately describe that point - then reconstruct them.

Edited by Innocent, 03 June 2013 - 08:01 PM.

[Julia36]

We must attack death on every front, plan against it for the future, dismember it in the present, and revoke it in the past!

In our hands lie the great tools of science and technology. Behind them, the tested systems of causality and probability by which all known laws in the cosmos exist.

Added to these are the vast facts in growing databases like "Tree of Life on the Web" project. Then come the brilliant modern sciences, statistics, mathematics and computing. There are growing innovative techniques and devices and the accelerating discipline of artificial intelligence which began giving men orders in London as exploding traffic lights outside Parliament in 1868, but has improved and is now integral to civilization with no known nor containable limit.

At some point in the future the specific ,description of tiniest events - even thoughts and memories - will be calculated and exposed for all the world to see. Man is not outside the laws of Nature and it is not different science to reconstruct his brain than any other part of him.



If this sounds fantastic, the logic behind it is valid, the starting propositions are agreed, and the best proof is that it is already happening. Facial reconstructions over a million years old, resurrected organisms extinct for more than 100 million years, and moving maps of the cosmos for the last 13 billion years have been built and verified by our method. Archaeology is in revolution, and archaeologists shout increasing demands for "More technology!" "More machine intelligence!" and much more mathematics and computation.

more:

Quantum Archaeology2

I have tried to launch Quantum Archaeology. As a philsopher it is not my job to do the science, just examine whether its viable or inconsistant. Part of that examination has involved correpondence with some of the best minds in the world, many of whom are unknown reclusives, but some famous.

Great reolutions and great movements are led by astonishly few minds at first.
only two in Evolution and Natural Selection: a few family and friends many religions including Islam, & christianity.

But the internet is here.

I thought it best to aim this at thought leaders in emerging science and technology.


This is my last post, I think.

It is up to scientists now. If QA is correct it will be proved and happen. If its false, the dead are doomed, and there's no going back. But we've already begun resurrecting (under that name) systems in evolutionary biology (J thornton) and doing archaeology that would be astonishing 10 ago.
Because I.T. is acclerating in the next 10 years we'll produce and manipulate more data than in the last 100,000,000 years. Simple facial reconstrctions will deepen to brain reconstructions of long dead people using DNA probabilities, and more parts of a potential quantum archaeology grid
may lead to recursive civilization resurrected men from the past will interact with men from their future.
Someone neeto take this forward. A book on it would easily make the New York Times bestseller's lists. - and make the author rich.

Religious groups shoud not be alienated because their premise in most cases is resurrection,
and QA is not in conflict with theor beleifs, reworked as science. THey are also organised.
But we shoudn't abandon known Truths for placating dogma.

I've gone back to ponder movement and being.

Thanks for your audience & I hope you live happily ever after.

A.N. Other

NOTES FOR RESEARCHERS

No lecture has ever been given on Quantum Archaeology that's online.



Some possibly useful references/notes



-300 Elements Euclid of Alexandria Sir Thomas Heath Trans.
1638 - Dialogues Concerning Two New Sciences Galileo Galilei


1829-1903 posthumous "What Was Man Created For? The Philosophy of the Common Task" N.F. Fedorov First mention of resurrection through science (ISBN: 0907855091) see also:

• Nader Elhefnawy, 'Nikolai Fedorov and the Dawn of the Posthuman', in The Future Fire 9 (2007).
• Ludmila Koehler, N.F. Fedorov: the Philosophy of Action Institute for the Human Sciences, Pittsburgh, PA, USA, 1979. AlibrisID: 8714504160
• History of Russian Philosophy «История российской Философии» (1951) by N. O. Lossky. Publisher: Allen & Unwin, London ASIN: B000H45QTY International Universities Press Inc NY, NY ISBN 978-0823680740 sponsored by Saint Vladimir's Orthodox Theological Seminary.
• Ed Tandy, N.F. Fedorov, Russian Come-Upist, Venturist Voice, Summer 1986.
• G. M. Young, Nikolai F. Fedorov: An Introduction Nordland Publishing Co., Belmont, MA, USA, 1979.
• Taras Zakydalsky Ph.D. thesis, N. F. Fyodorov's Philosophy of Physical Resurrection Bryn Mawr, 1976, Ann Arbor, MI, USA.

1892 The Grammar of Science. Karl Pearson. but see especially the 3rd 1911 edition with it's inclusions.
1905 "Über die von der molekularkinetischen Theorie der Wärme geforderte Bewegung von in ruhenden Flüssigkeiten suspendierten Teilchen". Annalen der Physik 17 (8): 549–560. "Investigations on the theory of Brownian Movement" Albert Einstein.
1934 Mein Weltbild Albert Einstein
1956 Statistical methods and scientific inference Sir Ronald Fisher
1952 The Chemical Basis of Morphogenesis. Alan M. Turing. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society of London.
1954 Marvin Minsky:

• Computation: Finite and Infinite Machines, Prentice-Hall, 1967. A standard text in computer science. Out of print now, but soon to reappear.
• Perceptrons, with Seymour Papert, MIT Press, 1969 (Enlarged edition, 1988).
• Artificial Intelligence, with Seymour Papert, Univ. of Oregon Press, 1972. Out of print.
• Robotics, Doubleday, 1986. Edited collection of essays about robotics, with Introduction and Postscript by Minsky.
• The Society of Mind, Simon and Schuster, 1987. The first comprehensive description of the Society of Mind theory of intellectual structure and development. See also The Society of Mind (CD-ROM version), Voyager, 1996.
• The Turing Option, with Harry Harrison, Warner Books, New York, 1992. Science fiction thriller about the construction of a superintelligent robot in the year 2023.

1955 Radiocarbon Dating Willard Libby
1955 Symmetry of physical laws. Part III. Prediction and retrodiction S Watanabe - Reviews of Modern Physics
1957 Immortality Physically, Scientifically, Now (PDF) Evan Cooper
1957 Causality and Chance in Modern Physics David Bohm
1959 The Phenomenon of Man Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
1964 "The Future of Man" Pierre Teilhard de Chardin (Omega Point
theory) ISBN 0-385-51072-1

1977 Foundations of Mathematical Logic Haskel .B Curry ISBN 0 486 63462 0
1977 The resurrection of the dead K Barth
1979 Experimental Archaeology, John Morton Coles
1982 Paul Benioff Journal of Statistical Physics Volume 29, Number 3 , 515-546
1983 I J Good: Good Thinking: The Foundations of Probability and Its Applications. University of Minnesota Press. Republished by Dover in 2009.

1986 The Blind Watchmaker Richard Dawkins
1986 Frank J. Tipler; John D. Barrow. The Anthropic Cosmological Principle. Oxford University Press.
1986 Frank J. Tipler, "Cosmological Limits on Computation", International Journal of Theoretical Physics, Vol. 25, No. 6 (June 1986), pp. 617-661, doi:10.1007/BF00670475, Bibcode: 1986IJTP...25..617T. (First paper on the Omega Point Theory.)
1987 Renormalisation group theory of spin glasses V S Dotsenko
1987 see ancestor states J. Phys. C: Solid State Phys. 20 5473-5478 doi:10.1088/0022-3719/20/33/005
1987 -> Journal of Evolutionary Biology (general)
1990 Mark Burgin Generalized Kolmogorov Complexity and other Dual Complexity Measures, Cybernetics, No. 4, pp. 21-29 (translated from Russian: v. 26, No. 4, pp. 481-490)

1990 Astero-archaeology: reading the galactic history recorded in the white dwarf stars. MA Wood
1991 Current Anthropology June Volume 32 Number 3: The New Archaeology Richard A Watson
1991 Archaeology: Theory, Methods and Practice Colin Renfrew, ; Paul Bahn,
1991 Truth Dwells in the Deeps: Lessons from Quantum Theory for Contemporary Archaeology Occasional paper (Southern Illinois University at Carbondale. Center for Archaeological Investigations). Curtis F. Schaafsma
1993 "The Coming Technological Singularity", Verner Vinge. Symposium held at NASA Lewis Research Center (NASA Conference Publication CP-10129)

1993 Ben Goertzel:

• The Structure of Intelligence: A New Mathematical Model of Mind (Springer, 1993) The Evolving Mind (Gordon and Breach, 1993)
• Artificial General Intelligence: Cognitive Technologies (Springer, 2005), co-edited with Cassio Pennachin, describes the mathematics underpinning the Novamente AI Engine.
• The Hidden Pattern: A Patternist Philosophy of Mind (Brown Walker Press, 2006)

1994 Molecular resurrection of an extinct ancestral promoter for mouse L1.
NB Adey, TO Tollefsbol, AB Sparks… - Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences
1995 "The Physics of Immortality" Prof Frank J Tiper. ISBN 0333618645
1996 The Creative Cosmos, Ervin Laszlo, Floris Books ISBN: 0863151728
1997 The Fabric of Reality Towards a Theory of Everything. David Deutsch
1997 "Quantum Robots and Quantum Computers". arXiv:quant-ph/9706012 [quant-ph]. Paul Benioff
1998 "Some foundational aspects of quantum computers and quantum robots". Superlattices and Microstructures 23 (3-4): 407–417. Paul Benioff
1998 "Time and history in quantum tunneling" in Superlattices and Microstructures, Volume 23, Number 3, March pp. 823-832(10) A.M.Steinberg
1998 "When will computer hardware match the human brain?" Journal of Transhumanism, Hans Moravec
1999 Bioarchaeology: "Interpreting Behavior from the Human Skeleton." Clark Spencer Larsen
1999 How many people have ever lived? Prof. Glen Paige http://www.math.hawa...sey/People.html
2000 Why The Future Doesn't Need Us. Bill Joy Wired Magazine Issue 8.04 | April
2000 Sub-Poissonian photon statistics of higher harmonics: quantum predictions via classical trajectories Jirí Bajer et al

2000 Journal of Optics. B: Quantum Semiclass. Opt. 2 L10-L14 doi:10.1088/1464-4266/2/3/102

2000 Bayes' theorem and quantum retrodiction SM Barnett, DT Pegg…- Journal of Modern Optics
2000 "Ultimate physical limits to computation". Lloyd, Seth Nature
2000 The Large the Small and The Human Mind Professor Roger Penrose Cambridge University Press

2000 Forever For All R Michael Perry ISBN-10: 1581127243 # ISBN-13: 9781581127249 Universal-Publishers
2000 Quantum computation and quantum information Michael A. Nielsen, Isaac L. Chuang
2000 Robot Mere Machine to Transcendent Mind Hans P. Moravec

2001 The Law of Accelerating Returns. Ray Kurzweil. Kurzweilai.net

2001 Master equation for retrodiction of quantum communication signals SM Barnett, DT Pegg, J Jeffers… - Physical Review Letters
2002 "Psychohistory" (A tool for Historical Prediction) by Christos Z. Konstas ISBN : 960-7928-72-5.
2002 Quantum retrodiction in open systems DT Pegg et al

2002 The Complete Work of. Charles Darwin Online John van Wyhe, editor (http://darwin-online.org.uk/)

2002 Thinking from Things: Essays in the Philosophy of Archaeology Alison Wylie
2003 "Are You Living In a Computer Simulation?" Nick Bostrom. Philosophical Quarterly, Vol. 53, No. 211, pp. 243-255
2003 "Irreversible Entropy in Biological Systems", EPISTEME
Lucia U. and Maino G., Thermodynamical analysis of the dynamics of tumor interaction with the host immune system, Physica A: Statistical Mechanics and its Applications, 313, 3-4, pp. 569-5772004 Quantum Archaeology 'What is actually Teleported?' IBM Journal of Research & Development. Vol. 48 NO. 1 January p64-end re: ancestor states.
2003 Resurrecting the Ancestral Steroid Receptor: Ancient Origin of Estrogen Signaling . Science 19 September Vol. 301 no. 5640 pp. 1714-1717 Joseph W. Thornton, Eleanor Need, David Crews
2004 Forensic Facial Reconstruction. Dr Caroline Wilkinson, Cambridge University Press
2004 Resurrection: Coping with Information Loss Mike Perry Physical Immortality, 3rd Quarter
2005 Doubly robust estimation in missing data and causal inference models. H Bang
2005 Burgin, Mark

• Burgin, Mark (2005), Super-recursive algorithms, Monographs in computer science, Springer. ISBN 0-387-95569-0
  
  • Review, José Félix Costa, MathSciNet. Review MR2246430.
  • Review, Harvey Cohn (2005), "Computing Reviews", Review CR131542 (0606-0574)
  • Review, Martin Davis (2007), Bulletin of Symbolic Logic, v. 13 n. 2. Online version
  • Review, Marc L. Smith (2006), "The Computer Journal", Vol. 49 No. 6 Online version
  • Review, Vilmar Trevisan (2005), Zentralblatt MATH, Vol. 1070. Review 1070.68038
• Burgin, M. How We Know What Technology Can Do, Communications of the ACM, v. 44, No. 11, 2001, pp. 82-88
• Burgin M., Universal limit Turing machines, Notices of the Russian Academy of Sciences, 325, No. 4, (1992), 654-658
• Burgin, M. and Klinger, A. Three Aspects of Super-recursive Algorithms and Hypercomputation or Finding Black Swans, Theoretical Computer Science, v. 317, No. 1/3, 2004, pp. 1-11
• Burgin, M. Algorithmic Complexity of Recursive and Inductive Algorithms, Theoretical Computer Science, v. 317, No. 1/3, 2004, pp. 31-60
• Burgin, M. and Klinger, A. Experience, Generations, and Limits in Machine Learning, Theoretical Computer Science, v. 317, No. 1/3, 2004, pp. 71-91

2005 "Quantum Robot: Structure, Algorithms and Applications". Dao-Yi Dong; Chun-Lin Chen; Chen-Bin Zhang; Zong-Hai Chen
2005 "The Singularity Is Near" Ray Kurzweil ISBN 0-670-03384-7.

2005 Quantum Archeology Wed 7 Dec Vlatko Vedral Manchester Theoretical Physics Group SCHUSTER COLLOQUIUM. (see also eg Vlatko Vedral deposited papers Los Alamos http://xxx.lanl.gov/find/ on quantum information recovery (same principle as quantum resurrection).

2005 Probability: A Philosophical Introduction D H Mellor
2005 Shadows and the concept of self Giulio Prisco and Richard L. Miller
2006 "Information recovery from black holes" by Vijay Balasubramanian, Donald Marolf, Moshe Rozali in General Relativity and Gravitation pub by Springer Netherlands ISSN 0001-7701 (Print) 1572-9532 (On line) Issue Volume 38, Number 11 / November

2006 "Resurrection of Schrödinger's cat" Jae-Seung Lee and A K Khitrin New J. Phys. 8 144

2006 "A Beginner's Guide to Immortality:" Extraordinary People, Alien Brains, and Quantum Resurrection by Clifford A. Pickover ISBN-13: 9781560259848.

2006 Quantum tool kits could transform archaeology. New Scientist July 21st issue 2561
2006 Geometry of quantum states: an introduction to quantum entanglement I Bengtsson
2006 Dark Energy and Life's Ultimate Future Rüdiger Vaas http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0703/0703183.pdf
2006 The Blind Locksmith. Carl Zimmer The Loom. Discover Magazine (see 2009, below).
2006 EVOLUTION: Reducible Complexity. Adami, C. Science 312 (5770): 61–63.

2007 New Scientist article on C.A. Pickover's book (above) Nov 17th.

2007 Records Theory. Edward Anderson.

2007 "Is the mind inherently forward looking?" Comparing prediction and retrodiction J Jones… - Psychonomic bulletin & review, Springer
2007 "The Never-Ending Days of Being Dead: Dispatches from the Front Line of Science" Faber and Faber by Marcus Chown ISBN: 057122055X
2007 "How Long Before Superintelligence?" Professor Nick Bostrom Oxford Future of Humanities Institute. Online.
2012 Resurrection of DNA function in vivo from an extinct genome
AJ Pask, RR Behringer, MB Renfree - PLoS One

2008 The Singularity: A Crucial Phase in Divine Self-Actualization? M Zimmerman -Cosmos and History: The Journal of Natural and Social Philosophy, Vol 4, No 1-2
2008 "How much of one-way computation is just thermodynamics?" Janet Anders, Damian Markham, Vlatko Vedral, Michal Hajdušek January 21st, arXiv:quant-ph/0702020v1

2009 Quantum Detection Meets Archaeology–Magnetic Prospection with SQUIDs: S Linzen, V Schultze, A Chwala et al.
2009 Prediction, retrodiction, and the amount of information stored in the present CJ Ellison, JR Mahoney… - Journal of Statistical Physics
2009 Human Remains in Archaeology A handbook. Charlotte A. Roberts
2009 Probabilistic Graphical Models: Principles and Techniques. Daphne Koller, Nir Friedman
2009 Death and resurrection of the human IRGM gene
C Bekpen, T Marques-Bonet, C Alkan, F Antonacci… - PLoS genetics
2009 Can Evolution Run in Reverse? A Study Says It’s a One-Way Street. Carl Zimmer, New York Times September 28
2009 The Blind Locksmith Continued: An Update from Joe Thornton. Carl Zimmer The Loom. Discover Magazine.
2010 (undated) "Is the universe reversible? Time reversal invariance.The hypothesis that the number of possible states of every finite volume of space-time is finite." Tim Tyler. http://finitenature.com/
2010 “Dirty Books: Quantifying Patterns of Use in Medieval Manuscripts Using a Densitometer,” Journal of Historians of Netherlandish Art , Vol. 2,1 Kathryn Rudy
2010 "Algorithmic Probability and Heuristic Programming and AGI" Ray Solomonoff

2010 "Closed timelike curves via post-selection: theory and experimental demonstration": Seth Lloyd, Lorenzo Maccone, Raul Garcia-Patron, Vittorio Giovannetti, Yutaka Shikano, Stefano Pirandola, Lee A. Rozema, Ardavan Darabi, Yasaman Soudagar, Lynden K. Shalm, Aephraim M. Steinberg: arxiv.org/abs/1005.2219

2010 Quantum Archaeology: a user's guide (no text available) Max Adams
2010 Science Fiction and Philosophy: From Time Travel to Superintelligence Susan Schneider
2010 Microarchaeology: "Beyond the Visible Archaeological Record." Weiner Cambridge University Press
2010 Rice archaeological remains and the possibility of DNA archaeology K Tanaka, T Honda . Springer
2010 Anthropic Shadow: Observation Selection Effects and Human Extinction Risks. Nick Bostrom, Milan Cirkovic & Anders Sandberg Risk Analysis, Vol. 30, No. 10 pp 1495-1506
2011 How the Hippies Saved Physics: Science, Counterculture, and the Quantum Revival. David Kaiser
2011 The Physics Book: From the Big Bang to Quantum Resurrection. Clifford A. Pickover Sterling Publishing. ISBN 978-1402778612

2011 Tweeting The Universe: Tiny Explanations of Very Big Ideas. Marcus Chown, Govert Schilling

2011 Archaeometry Edited By: Mark Pollard, Ernst Pernicka, James Burton, Gilberto Artioli
2011 Quantum Archaeology Giulio Prisco Blog spot http://giulioprisco....rchaeology.html
2011 The New Horizon Run (Simulation of the universe using + 370 billion particles) Juhan Kim, et al.
2011 Does Ignorance of the Whole Imply Ignorance of the Parts? Large Violations of Noncontextuality in Quantum Theory Phys. Rev. Lett. 107, 030402 Thomas Vidick and Stephanie Wehner
2012 Ancient human DNA K Kirsanow, J Burger - Annals of Anatomy-Anatomischer Anzeiger,
2012 Resurrecting ancient animal genomes L Huynen, CD Millar, DM Lambert - BioEssays
2012 "Effects on quantum physics of the local availability of mathematics and space time dependent scaling factors for number systems" Paul Benioff
2012 Advanced Statistical Methods for the Analysis of Large Data-Sets: Di Ciaccio, Agostino; Coli, Mauro; Angulo Ibanez, Jose Miguel (Eds.)
2012 Complex Systems and archaeology. Santafe.edu TA Kohler
2012 Establishing a New Information Paradigm. Dail DeWitt Doucette
2012 Consistent quantum prediction and decoherence in quantum cosmology Bulletin of the American Physical Society. D Craig -
2012 Dirk Bruere The Praxis - ISBN 9780956758736
2012 A Cosmist Manifesto: Practical Philosophy for the Posthuman Age Ben Goertzel

2012 David Wood Super-technology. blog http://dw2blog.com/2...n/#comment-2655
2012 FastML: a web server for probabilistic reconstruction of ancestral sequences Oxford Journals Life Sciences Nucleic Acids Research Volume 40, Issue W1 Pp. W580-W584. Haim Ashkenazy, Osnat Penn, Adi Doron-Faigenboim, Ofir Cohen1, Gina Cannarozzi, Oren Zomer and Tal Pupko <a href="mailto:talp@post.tau.ac.il">talp@post.tau.ac.il
2012 Technological Resurrection http://www.technolog...surrection.com/

2012 Alexey Potapov et al http://agi-conferenc...12/paper_10.pdf
2012 Digital legacy: The fate of your online soul New Scientist Number 2809 May Sumit Paul-Choudhury
2012 Information Physics. Philip Goyal http://www.mdpi.com/2078-2489/3/4/567
2012 Immortality, Quantum Archaeology and my Poo Collection Khannea Suntzu
http://turingchurch....tion/#more-1419
2012 Towards the Recapitulation of Ancient History in the Laboratory: Combining Synthetic Biology with Experimental Evolution B Kacar, E Gaucher - arXiv preprint arXiv:1209.5032, 2012 - arxiv.org
2012 A Guide to Experimental Algorithmics. Catherine C. McGeoch
2012 Regenesis: How Synthetic Biology Will Reinvent Nature and Ourselves George M. Church
2013 Superintelligence Nick Bostrom Oxford University Press
2013 A Branch-Heterogeneous Model of Protein Evolution for Efficient Inference of Ancestral Sequences M Groussin, B Boussau, M Gouy - Systematic Biology
2013 Could Wooly Mammoths Be Brought Back?
B Thomas - icr.org
2013 Identifying Recent Adaptations in Large-Scale Genomic Data
SR Grossman, KG Andersen, I Shlyakhter, S Tabrizi… - Cell
2013 Large‐scale data mining using genetics‐based machine learning
J Bacardit, X Llorà
2013 Rekindling the Flame: Processes of Identity Resurrection Jennifer Howard-,Matthew L. Metzger and Alan D. Meyer (community resurrection)
2013 "An Alternative to Quantum Archaeology in Resurrecting the Dead" by Dr Mike Perry Youtube
2013 Creepy or Cool? Portraits Derived From the DNA in Hair and Gum Found in Public Places http://blogs.smithso.../#ixzz2SXTDooTS

Resurrection ideas in Science Fiction

http://www.danielrob...quantumarch.php

A A Attanasio - The Last Legends of Earth
Greg Bear - Blood Music. The Judgement Engine.
Arthur C Clarke / Stephen Baxter - The Light of Other Days
- Profiles of the Future
Phillip Jose Farmer - Riverworld series
Frank Herbert - Dune anthology
Ian McDonald - Necroville
Wil McCarthy. Lost In Transmission
Dan Maurer - The Quantum Archeologist
Robert "Dean" D. Russell The Resurrection of Bayou Savage: Guitar Ghost Fighter

Charles Sheffield - Tomorrow and Tomorrow

John Wright - Golden Age trilogy

Arwen Elys Dayton - Resurrection 2012

Films/TV


Caprica -- resurrecting people by assembling their personality profile from the
data trail they left behind was an important theme in the TV series


A.I. -- the robots recover the mother's thoughts and memories from the fabric of space itself.

Discussions

Quantum Archaeology www.Kurzweilai.net/forums - ongoing

“Resuscitative Resurrection” - who gets brought back to life first?"
Hank Pellissier http://ieet.org/inde...lissier20120215

Edited by Innocent, 04 June 2013 - 07:28 AM.

[platypus]

Let's list the problems that not have been solved again:

1) Deterministic chaos: Even if you could measure the position and direction of every particle with on accuracy of 700 digits (or 70 billion digits for that matter) it won't be enough as the tiniest error will multiply with time.
2) Lack of full information on the initial state: This is missing since there's no infinite detector-grid at the edge of space that can catch the information that flies away past us at practically the speed of light. This means that the simulation is doomed to be underdetermined.
3) Problem of QM and undeterminism: According one of the most precise theories in the all of science (QM/QED) particles don't even possess both position and direction at 700 significant digits (and let alone 70 billion, see problem 1) at the same time. Even if you created an identical configuration of atoms somehow, due to he probabilistic nature of nature something slightly different would happen. Therefore, at the quantum level situations are not even repeatable (except probabilistically) and therefore also any attempt to simulate exactly what happened is doomed to fail.

By the way it's not correct to say that if QM is true "there are no laws". The laws are there and they are probabilistic - the world is fuzzy at the smallest scales. These theories have been monumentally successful so they should not be discounted with something vague like feelings/intuition, which are often just plain wrong.

[Warren Harding]

On 1): True, but every historical event and physical error provides further data. If you were to simply extrapolate backwards in time from now you would get the problem you've described. Every event in our history books provides a correlation point that can be used to eliminate false histories. The history of the deceased is particularly relevant give 2 above. The reduced set of potential histories must be physically consistent with regards to all physical laws as well. On 2): Obviously one cannot calculate the history of the universe given all of the atomic scale data on earth, however one needs the more limited case of calculating historical state in the vicinity of the deceased at the time of death. On 3) It only has to be accurate statistically, clearly the probability of resurrecting a completely different individual should be infinitesimal. One can utilize the types of historical event correlations and consist physical law requirements described above. 4): I think the biggest problem is the enormous scale of the computational and sensor requirements. The amount of data stored in the human body is enormous. In order to ensure that the problem is over-determined you will need more sensor readings than all of the atomic position, type, bond, etc., data in the human body. Plus more given problem 2 above. Plus more the further you extrapolate backwards in time. Repcores.com describes a concept that might actually make technological resurrection feasible within decades.

[ben951]

In a way Tipler view is simpler than QA, basically resurrect everyone by brute force with unlimited energy and computing power.

Resurrect every person that ever lived, every person that could ever lived and every version of those person threw time, reproduce all variation of all life form that could ever be.

By Generating every person that could ever lived we're guaranteed to be resurrected.

http://www.closertot...ank-Tipler-/750

http://www.closertot...ank-Tipler-/751

I don't even think we really need infinite computing power to do so.
All variation of all life form that could ever be should be a finite number given that not any life form is viable.

It remember me what I red on a math forum:

A typical digitized picture on your computer
screen is 640 pixels long by 480 pixels wide, for a total of
307200 pixels. Using only 256 different colors, you can get decent
resolution. Now if you take 256^307200 (256 times itself 307200 times)
you get... well, a pretty big number, but a finite number nonetheless.
That's the number of different images you can have of that particular
size. Any picture you would scan into a computer at that size and
resolution will necessarily be one of those images. Therefore,
contained in those images are the images of the faces of every human
being who ever lived along with the images of the faces of every person yet to be born.

Edited by ben951, 04 June 2013 - 10:46 PM.

[platypus]

On 2): Obviously one cannot calculate the history of the universe given all of the atomic scale data on earth, however one needs the more limited case of calculating historical state in the vicinity of the deceased at the time of death.

"Historical state" includes modelling of human culture and interactions, which to me seems insurmountable.

[Julia36]

In a way Tipler view is simpler than QA, basically resurrect everyone by brute force with unlimited energy and computing power.

Resurrect every person that ever lived, every person that could ever lived and every version of those person threw time, reproduce all variation of all life form that could ever be.

By Generating every person that could ever lived we're guaranteed to be resurrected.

http://www.closertot...ank-Tipler-/750

http://www.closertot...ank-Tipler-/751

I don't even think we really need infinite computing power to do so.
All variation of all life form that could ever be should be a finite number given that not any life form is viable.

It remember me what I red on a math forum:

A typical digitized picture on your computer
screen is 640 pixels long by 480 pixels wide, for a total of
307200 pixels. Using only 256 different colors, you can get decent
resolution. Now if you take 256^307200 (256 times itself 307200 times)
you get... well, a pretty big number, but a finite number nonetheless.
That's the number of different images you can have of that particular
size. Any picture you would scan into a computer at that size and
resolution will necessarily be one of those images. Therefore,
contained in those images are the images of the faces of every human
being who ever lived along with the images of the faces of every person yet to be born.

Yes Frank's is simpler we just differ on the need for physical recovery and also on time scale:

he sees it as inevitable @ the end of the universe.

I think its going to happen realy soon: 20-40 years is my estimate and I've erred on the side of caution.

There seems to be emerging the Law of Conservation of Information though no-one outsode relgion has formalised it.

[Julia36]

Let's list the problems that not have been solved again:

1) Deterministic chaos: Even if you could measure the position and direction of every particle with on accuracy of 700 digits (or 70 billion digits for that matter) it won't be enough as the tiniest error will multiply with time.

No. You are looking at error figures from NOW.
You need to look at them from people in the FUTURE with enormous processing power.

Also it is maths not biology we're doing for mapping.

2) Lack of full information on the initial state: This is missing since there's no infinite detector-grid at the edge of space that can catch the information that flies away past us at practically the speed of light. This means that the simulation is doomed to be underdetermined.


2) Lack of full information on the initial state : This is missing since there's no infinite detector-grid at the edge of space that can catch the information that flies away past us at practically the speed of light. This means that the simulation is doomed to be underdetermined .

Oh I suddenly understood what you mean. Yes it;s true that a suspendee in cryonics has much information stored, and its also true this was/is assumed essentila.

It might be essential and I caution people to get suspended.
Eiinger (founded Cryonics...this is his site!) warned that Quantum Archaeology had not been done and there may be some unknown that needs the actual body/brain to recontruct from.

There may be a barrier but I just dont see one and science maxims on the whole suggest there couldn't be one.

I hope you dont see QA as an attack on cryonics but rather a compliment to it. An addition.

You mean the initial state of the person you're trying to reconstruct, right?

BTW Information isn't flying away at light speed...only light is capable of doing that!

Of course if you had the initial state that you wouldn't need to reconstruct it! There isn't strictly an initial state, since a person has lived dynamically:

Only calculation and especially using the Quantum Archaeology Grid I've proposed could retrieve his memories, most opf which has been lost as he's aged anyway.

Quantum Archaeology is about how to find that data by constructing a giant moving grid of history and imposing lots of known event tracelines eg like the biological record on it

It knocks out improbabilities.

You needn't fear using probability as quantum probability is pretty good:)

The present has EVOLVED from the past

Not randomly, but inevitably.

Specifically by laws, and those laws have also contructed the environment.

If you mean something else by initial state, then I still lost!


Do you think this is random or complex????


Whatever the quantum world is (an artibrary scale by Planck, a church warden, who beleived there was an invisible intelligent universal mind) - it must interact with meso (human) scales.

Quantum effects would sloop into it and cause nutty paradoxes.

There are good absolutely deterministic theory of the quantum world. I refise to be stuck on '"oh it;s a probable only world"



I think I know where you're coming from, but the aim is resurrection and immortality and happiness.

But yes its better to have a frozen corpse than not have one for safety.


We do the quantum realm probabilistically but we do it causally - at least the whole of sceince has shown that historically.

THe example I gave was a crowd of people.

We cant predict one's movements but we can predict the crowd probabilistically. Same from a cloud of smoke in a tank (Einstein 1905), and same for quantum events.



The sole issue is size of calculation.

Given information in the present and enough procesing power, then we just use the laws of physics to trace back anything that's ever been.

It is not true that the idea is underdetermined simce it deferes to both causality and probability..


Things look impossible.

Then we learn to model them!

We model them by breaking them down into the LAWS of physics.

Let me ask you again, Platypus:

do you think the "quantum world" operates by Laws or not?

Please just answer yes or no as I'm not complex enough to understand anything else.

3) Problem of QM and undeterminism: According one of the most precise theories in the all of science (QM/QED) particles don't even possess both position and direction at 700 significant digits (and let alone 70 billion, see problem 1) at the same time. Even if you created an identical configuration of atoms somehow, due to he probabilistic nature of nature something slightly different would happen. Therefore, at the quantum level situations are not even repeatable (except probabilistically) and therefore also any attempt to simulate exactly what happened is doomed to fail.

By the way it's not correct to say that if QM is true "there are no laws". The laws are there and they are probabilistic - the world is fuzzy at the smallest scales. These theories have been monumentally successful so they should not be discounted with something vague like feelings/intuition, which are often just plain wrong.

The precise theory you site is statistical and is not physics. We need to do physics, and this means causation. However you are in good company thining the world opf the very small is non-causal.
We shall see who is right in years to come, meantime the jury's out.

Your argument that a slight difference is the same arguement as errors will be made, and the same answer I have given above applies, ie the coming hyperocmputing is going to be vast.

The advance of maths is that we make fewer errors with bigger numbers!

Also the syetms of error-checking I have iterated will MORE THAN elimiate errors.

I engaged Solomonoff in this debate i person and by correspondence on what sort of data coulod be retrieved from vast numbers, so I'm not drawing this conclusion in ignorance of what is possible even now.

I dunno if he's frozen but in any case he'll explain it to you himself in 2 or 3 decades.

It isn't about biology Platypus, it;s about numbers.

Consider the earth.





We are doing better and deeper descriptions of it..moving descriptions are already possible for moments in time.

We will be able to to simulations...at first general, but then sopecific of the entire earth.

They will increrase in intensity.

And thenh we'll do the histiorically.

The debate is in IT now. What are it;s limits?

When stuff decays infomations seems lost

but information is incapable of being destroyed.

Do you challenge that physics maxim?

Edited by Innocent, 06 June 2013 - 09:13 PM.

[Julia36]

On 1): True, but every historical event and physical error provides further data. If you were to simply extrapolate backwards in time from now you would get the problem you've described. Every event in our history books provides a correlation point that can be used to eliminate false histories. The history of the deceased is particularly relevant give 2 above. The reduced set of potential histories must be physically consistent with regards to all physical laws as well. On 2): Obviously one cannot calculate the history of the universe given all of the atomic scale data on earth, however one needs the more limited case of calculating historical state in the vicinity of the deceased at the time of death. On 3) It only has to be accurate statistically, clearly the probability of resurrecting a completely different individual should be infinitesimal. One can utilize the types of historical event correlations and consist physical law requirements described above. 4): I think the biggest problem is the enormous scale of the computational and sensor requirements. The amount of data stored in the human body is enormous. In order to ensure that the problem is over-determined you will need more sensor readings than all of the atomic position, type, bond, etc., data in the human body. Plus more given problem 2 above. Plus more the further you extrapolate backwards in time. Repcores.com describes a concept that might actually make technological resurrection feasible within decades.

we've got to get data recivery right.

Cioming computers are estimated to do near infinite caculations in a few moments, and super-recursive algorithms may outperform even those.





Like Ettinger I couldn't understand when Quantum Archaeology was boprn (partly on this site) why everyone didn't sudden;y take it up.
He had to actively campaign to get Cryonics heard: you could argue he stared the Transhumanist movement.

This is a BIG shift in physche...that men are not dead, creatures are not dead, and death is impossible for life.- whether or not we blow ourselves up, because in the infinite multiverse all probab ilities are realised, and that included resurrection.

I still signed up to get cryonically suspended in the 1990's though!


We've been doing telepotrantion in labs for a few years now and will get round to humans (man is not something special but like any other dynamic data)

Actual Teleporter:



to teleport people we need t break them down into data.

That breaking down will require scanning/measuring techniques expected to become available after 10 years.

Scaning is hurtleing forward and non-invasive scanning is already prototyping




Two teams of researchers have extended the reach of quantum teleportation to unprecedented lengths, roughly equivalent to the distance between New York City and Philadelphia. But don’t expect teleportation stations to replace airports or train terminals—the teleportation scheme shifts only the quantum state of a single photon. And although part of the transfer happens instantaneously, the steps required to read out the teleported quantum state ensure that no information can be communicated faster than the speed of light.
http://blogs.scienti...cord-distances/


I think you've got the main concept WH.

Complexity is not impenetrability.

Edited by Innocent, 06 June 2013 - 09:32 PM.

[Julia36]

Let's list the problems that not have been solved again:

1) Deterministic chaos: Even if you could measure the position and direction of every particle with on accuracy of 700 digits (or 70 billion digits for that matter) it won't be enough as the tiniest error will multiply with time.

Chaos has changed it's meaning over the years and now means different things.
It used to mean absence of any order- that included laws- and was from the Bible.

Now it means small changes get magnified to horrendous amounts.

But that is not new.

Playing as a kid diverting a stream you could see that a small dam could flood your neighbours shops.

And the whole of evolution and natural selection is premised on these small changes.

So the answer is calculation factors up thru time.

We are theorizing infinite calculations and have had an maths for juggling infinities since Georg Kantor.

Deterministic chaos is an issue of size of calculation.

The way ur using it, means complexity. That is a calculation size issue alone.

2) Lack of full information on the initial state: This is missing since there's no infinite detector-grid at the edge of space that can catch the information that flies away past us at practically the speed of light.

Things that move (everything that is moves) leave traces from where they moved from.
That is one use of Archaeology and why QA is called archaeology because we are tracing the past by causality deduction and probability deduction, plus elimination rules like sampling at vast and accelerating speeds.

Statistics is a well advanced but growing science. Statisticians can do things with seeming random white noise that looks like magic to the layman..

The reason Statisticians can extract information from seeming chaotic disorder, is because every event affects contiguous events:and none are in isolation eg a quantum event flying at light speed fro earth has left events next to it changed in measurable ways.

Those ways may not be measurable directly, but they can be measured by constructing grids of the area and plotting simulations.

We will need such theories for reconstruction from cryostasis.

This means that the simulation is doomed to be underdetermined.

Underdetermined just means insufficient knowledge to draw in the determined (Causal/other) path ways: too little knowledge to reconstruct.


Quantum Archaeology gets round that by constructing a grid of the past in acute details.

Ye can plot many events on it from the records we have eg the fossil record, the archaeological record, the biological record, the geological record.

These are trillions of points.

Together with the known and discovered laws of physics, we can cross reference in vast 'living' calculations, and fill in the complete grid.


Many such grids are already used in different disciplines and computing power and techniques are coming to synthesise them eg from


The Theoretical and Computational Biophysics Group





This shows eg how to specifically construct post-equational simulations


http://www.ks.uiuc.e...script_library/


So the details is coming well enough for Quantum Archaeology and IMO we can begin constructing maps of the dead right now.

It doesn't matter how far back in time we go...the further back the easier the calculations because there are much fewer possibilities as the evolutionary tree of possible events narrows.

3) (Problems of Quantum:) at the quantum level situations are not even repeatable (except probabilistically) and therefore also any attempt to simulate exactly what happened is doomed to fail.

That is inaccurate: quantum experiments have been shown to be both both repeatable and reversible.


I have addressed the issue of probability measurements above, but to recap:

We measure systems probabilistically when we dont yet know the causal properties eg because its too complex.

One problem we have is assumed to be the observer effect...that when we go to measure the very small, we seem unable to separate the observer from the experiment and it affects it.

But Susskind (Stanford) has stated that these experiments work accurately and in the absence ot=f observers are fully reversible.

It would be impossible to have reversible quantum systems unless they are acting by the same causality as the rest of science.


Galileo's experiment
Galileo's first maxim: Observation then explanation.


The rest of science and the quantum theory are in conflict. They can both be true.

The success of probability does not mean that a causal theory will not come. To say because we haven't found it means it doesn't exist is pre-emptive. We are investgating stuff at the limits of our measurement capacity..



Double spit experiment QM

close up:

By the way it's not correct to say that if QM is true "there are no laws". The laws are there and they are probabilistic - the world is fuzzy at the smallest scales. These theories have been monumentally successful so they should not be discounted with something vague like feelings/intuition, which are often just plain wrong.

There are probabilistic law laws in the macro world. But we also have the science of causality developed there too!

QM has to catch up!

"In the 20th/21st century people actually believed very small things operated by different laws" will be said of us.



So you concede the quantum or very small world has laws! (no reason to stop science at the planck scale...maths wont!)

And just what is a law?

Prediction.

NB

Laws = Predication.

If THIS then THAT.

No way round that. If there are laws then things are both limited and ultimately predictable.

[Julia36]

The laws of physics have been won at great cost by venerable men working thru the night:

There are a lot of them and it simplifies calculations of the past by reducing steps needed by many factors.

Things including in the quantum world, are not unique but can also be classified in similar groups...an orange; an oxygen atom etc


But we know that if you combine this law and this law you get THIS definable event.

That makes Archaeology inevitable.




Piecing stuff together from surviving artefacts constructing inevitable

a) environments

b) unique individuals

Must surely come as archaeology moves from physical objects to information data.


The radio active decay of sodium 24 may seem random or only understandable probabilistically, but we cant OBSERVE the quantum precursors.

Maths will let us in, but the maths will have to be done by coming computers (which are just machines doing maths)



We know from other areas, once a science converts to information data it accelerates suddenly accelerates.


The future Archaeology Lab:



There s no part of this football science that isn't obeying the laws of physics, and the quantum world is much simpler than one human brain.

Its just undiscovered.. However bizarre, everything obeys laws, and that gives us retrodictive power to describe the past i sufficient detail-- with sufficient computing power

Even Jesus obeys the laws when it walks on water!







These animated gifs weren't possible a few short years back.

Within 5 years you should be able to feel the screen lizard in haptics, and that will be done exactly the same as archaeology, with maths and the laws of physics.



Artificial Intelligence is coming and it is NOT possible to hide the past from something much more intelligent.

Your thoughts when you were 10 will be online soon.

Every crime, every good deed and thought will be broadcast.




You seem stuck on probability in the quantum world????

Consider a school dinner cook ordering a menu for next week.

She doesn't know what each child will eat ----that calculation is too complex: she doesn't have all the variables of child plus environment,

so she orders using probability.



Thats where we are in the quantum world.



There acceleration in science and technology that might seem hard to gage.





http://www.businessi...y-report-2013-6

Quantum computers are specifically listed but they must be the biggest next to A.I.

Edited by Innocent, 07 June 2013 - 01:15 PM.

[Warren Harding]

It doesn't matter how far back in time we go...the further back the easier the calculations because there are much fewer possibilities as the evolutionary tree of possible events narrows.

I suspect not. From what I've seen the opposite may occur. One can calculate state locally and in recent time with some statistical accuracy now given a small amount of sensor capacity and computational capacity. As one adds more sensors and computational capacity, one can calculate further back, at greater range, and with more resolution. You will have to patch together the resulting maps, all the while discarding false results as you correlate with observed, recorded history. I've been wrong before though. Hopefully the debate is reasonably civil here, some of the other forums have a lot of trolls.

[Julia36]

NOT everything is as it appears to be. Science is getting increasingly counter-intuitive.

It doesn't matter how far back in time we go...the further back the easier the calculations because there are much fewer possibilities as the evolutionary tree of possible events narrows.

I suspect not. From what I've seen the opposite may occur. One can calculate state locally and in recent time with some statistical accuracy now given a small amount of sensor capacity and computational capacity. As one adds more sensors and computational capacity, one can calculate further back, at greater range, and with more resolution. You will have to patch together the resulting maps, all the while discarding false results as you correlate with observed, recorded history. I've been wrong before though. Hopefully the debate is reasonably civil here, some of the other forums have a lot of trolls.

You may be right, but it needs to be investigated. Strangely Quantum Archaeology is finding supporters in the UK as well as the USA.

It probably doesn't make any difference Warren, because the computational power expected from Quantum Computers, and possibly already available from super-recursive algorithms, may brush aside many factors of scale:


eg McGeoch reported in May, 2013 that the tests they conducted in conventional software/computers vs quantum computers sped up processes from 30 minutes to 1/2 second. (36,000 times faster)
http://www.cs.amhers...f14-mcgeoch.pdf


But it's nothing to what's coming.
The speed of Quantum computers may be linked to number of Qbits and D Wave has sold operational quantum computers to NASA and Google with 128 Q bits ( 2013): IBM is advancing rapidly in QC's.









>>>Jeff Forshaw: quantum computers are leaping ahead

Quantum computers are ever closer to becoming a reality, and when they arrive they will revolutionise computing power
article:

http://www.guardian....cs-jeff-forshaw

<<<

It looks like little is happening in them but they will explode from about 2022 and you will have Q systems in your mobile.



wiki>>>In computability theory, super-recursive algorithms are a generalization of ordinary algorithms that are more powerful, that is, compute more than Turing machines. The term was introduced by Mark Burgin, whose book "Super-recursive algorithms" develops their theory and presents several mathematical models.<<<

This is what recursive algorithm looks like...you see it;s not a straight-line, but comes back continually to find reinforced pathways:






To calculate backwards wont be by one linear timeline,

We would presumably have zillions of starting points in the present all calculating simultaneously backwards, being checked and corrected from the many records we've constructed.

There are FEWER events in the past than in the present,







This splitting happens pretty fast, instantly i our time reference, --either in Many Worlds Theory - which is a deterministic, causal, interpretation of Quantum Mechanics,
or in Classical Newtonian physics which is also causal.

(Steve Hawkings subscribes to Many Worlds )

It doesn't matter for reconstructions.

We are not at one end of a fishingline, but zillions of fishing lines that interplay and criss-cross.


We dont have to take much action for Quantum Archaeology to resurrect us: the onward march of technology enabling maths will deliver near infinite calculators that reconstructs proto-models of people then supplements subtle corrections by emerging archaeology:

Eventually the map will be good enough to reassemble the dead with expected micro robotics.


We'll maybe begin with proto-man... a general biological model per period of any human bebing, then modify round it according to calculations.


Proto men per time period (fractctions of a second)
will be a starting point for recontructions.
(The brain is a product of biology X environment).

It can all be reduced to equations and computerized. As Machine intelligence hits big time in the 2020's machines will do the lab work and maths discovery to make simulations (picture mapping) phenomenally accurate.

WE can do crude event point plots now:







the face of beauty 3 million BCE


This will be done near light speeds in hyper-computers.


Everything by order number measurement and relationship to other events. Everything built absolutely by the laws of physics

Edited by Innocent, 08 June 2013 - 12:23 PM.

[Julia36]

There are many holes in Quantum Archaeology - but the stakes are so high is DESERVES to be studied, and PhD's shoud run with it in archaeology, statistics, information & data sciences.

The public know nothing about it, but it;s been debated for over 10 years

We have and can develop and invent brilliant ways of finding past data.

We are reconstructing at speed with increasing accuracy., and this will move to internal reconstructions using probabioity and causation s we plot biologies and environments., leading to a simulation of the complete past.

actual reconstruction from remains





No-one's dead.
WE owe that to the past.
Man is incapable of death. That is a fact drawn from Quantum Archaeology.

the cave men of the past weren't dull static and uninteresting: they were obviously much complex than chimps, and much more interesting.

It's also obvious we're going to resurrect everything that's ever lived, that we'll be able to do it iwithin two generations.









But it's a big mistake to treat dead people as special data

They are just data.

Edited by Innocent, 08 June 2013 - 01:17 PM.

[Julia36]

Dept of Archaeology - Birkbeck


Department of Anthropology | New York University


I think you've got to be pretty nuts to push a controversial new field.
There's POTS of money in resurrecting the dead.

also scientific work needs to be written on it that draws heavily on Statical methods

Reaction to On the Origin of Species - Wikipedia

Edited by Innocent, 08 June 2013 - 01:18 PM.

[Julia36]

I'm enthusiastic about Quantum Archaeology because I listened to world experts in statistics talking on how to extract information from 'chaos'...I saw them doing it

we are constructing a map of the past both living and never alive.

The amazing thing we are able to do it with increasing efficiency...so even though we move further away from the historical events, we extract MORE information despite that because of accelerating science techniques:


This moving gif is a bit fast but it's a general reconstruction of the earth's mantle/moving continents.

It will get detailed to [past the atomic level with machine intelligence:



We'll break it down as we synthesise disparate data bases.

Maybe Google could do it with a complete Google map of the past?

I dont see why not.

It;s just data manipulation.

Edited by Innocent, 08 June 2013 - 02:27 PM.

[Julia36]

Thanks for letting me collect my thoughts here!

Anything in motion follows laws
Noting exists except my laws. This is true for the star, and this is true for the ocean.

Everything that obeys laws absolutely, is recoverable, because we're not using simple linear cause and effect but myriad laws of physics

[Julia36]

Nothing exists in Nature but by absolute law, which defines it and its environment in subsets that are similar, interchangeable, and limited.




http://media0.giphy....DNtPa/200_s.gif

coral reef

http://stream1.gifso...ochondria-o.gif

mitochondria

Hopefully this thread will go viral and bring people into cryonics

Edited by Innocent, 08 June 2013 - 05:44 PM.

[Julia36]

Hey I dont see whether I'm signed uo for cryonics is an issue???
It's not relevant to the science.

If Quantum Archaeology is wrong it will get over-turned by argument.

If Quantum Archaeology's right NOTHING will overturn it.

If it's right is DOES NOT mean the end of the cryonics movement, Cryonics will simply add information retrieval


The argument is that QA cant work because of quantum theory.

the world is indeterministic

I'm not trained in quantum science but I have science instinct as valid as the next man.

Be clear.

I am NOT trying to say that the universe is reversible, just that archaeology can be done in it.

Quantum Theory's 'belief' of Nature's indeterminism is not science: was started by a Christian church warden
who wrote that we must imply the existence on an intelligent mind behind the fundamental forces. (Max Planck)

and to loop in the misunderstood notions of free will and the observer to quantum mechanics is nuttier still.

Free will is the term used for complexity of 'choice':

that complexity moves up from simple non-life to viruses to the venus flytrap to man and groups of menin technology.
There is no myteriouis soul implant between the venus flytrap and a man.


In a venus flytrap the hair is triggered causing a chemical reaction presumably and the leves close trapping the insect for digestion.

A man is a complex set of these on various hierarchical and adjacent scales and interactions.

No-one doubts a man is a combination of symbiotic organisms acting selfishly, eg stomach floura, or that each of the micro-organisms can be reduced to systems that obviously do not have free will.

Indeterminism is abandoning science.

It is of course only possible to argue for it because the component parts of the planck scale are impossible to observe.

wiki" Prigogine notes numerous examples of irreversibility, including diffusion, radioactive decay, solar radiation, weather and the emergence and evolution of life."

nuts. These things are too complex to draft and state..Ha! Irreversible.

They may seem so to the ego of man-
but to science they are unobservable (observation is a complete description to the component parts).

NB Galileo's first maxim:

No explanation should be accepted for what cannot be observe red.

Quantum Theory conveniently throws out Newton, Galileo and Einstein.

And leaves Quantum Theory - the components of which are unobservable ("the observer effect changes the experiment" BTW this is unprovable).

Quantum Theory observed is in absolute conflict with what we Can observe where we can measure. I dont buy small things cant be eventually measured.


They cant both be rights.

And one of these theories which must be wrong...has absurdities and crackpot ideas.

Relativity which can be measured, is causal.

It doesn't take a genius to tell you >>>>THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES!<<<<


Quantum Theory says...spontaneous creation. I say NUTS.

Quantum Theory says....the observer ruins the experiment. I say this is insane.

Quantum Theory says...things affect each other but there's no link between them. I say you have forgotten common sense. One cannot 'explain' where one cannot observe that is logically irrefutable. And things affecting each other are absolutely linked.

The real wonder of quantum theory is that it is still being funded and tauight as a reality and back door proof of God, free will, and Man's specialness.

It is an ego trip from all to human minds.

When a causal explanation was offered from Everett (The Many World's Theory) Nils Bohr refused to hear him, although John Wheeler had brought him, because it would overturn his crackpot idea.

Science cannot be politics.

It has to be objective.

People quote Max Planck and Arthur Eddington, but both were practising christians (Planck believed in a supernatural being, omnipotent, omniscient, and benevolent and Eddington a Quaker who believed in God and divine revelation). Planck rejected indeterminism championed by Eddington, Eddington thought heat an irreversible process.

AS to the uncertainty principle, Heisenberg was an evalgelist: Evangelische Kirche.

It was incumbent on these men to search for the mysterious everywhere.
And they did.

Religion and science are not only incompatible, they are enemies who must fight to the death.

I dont understand science's reluctance to strangle religion once for ever: it seems acute cowardice.

[platypus]

The whole QA sounds so much like a religion so why don't you just "resurrect" better youthful versions of everyone straight to "heaven"?

[platypus]

This is a good one: http://abstrusegoose.com/511

[Julia36]

7 protesters outside with banners:

ONLY GOD CAN RESURRECT!"

Edited by Innocent, 09 June 2013 - 10:59 AM.

[Julia36]

The whole QA sounds so much like a religion so why don't you just "resurrect" better youthful versions of everyone straight to "heaven"?

First off you have to think in 4 dimensions. The life of your body to date is like a move snake, not your 3 D body.



You don't think science is a religion?

It surely is a religion backed up by a system of materialism and the scientific method.(anthropocentric)
Backed up by experiments you can do yourself, and evidence available for anyone to see.


But science is also accelerating in what it can do.

Part of that will be to alter human being's clean up their genetic errors, halt dying and with Quantum Archaeology
Resurrect the dead.

It differs drastically from religion which using a metalanguage for things we can express in scientific terms:

Hope ---becomes---> faith in religion ...and is given pre-eminent status.

Morality----> becomes godliness


There are scientific maxims, laws, and general observations that are astounding.

One f fractals theory, by which we can help retrieve data.

Patterns occur in Nature that repeat:



coral reef




mitochondria


THE CALCULATIONS

I'm not sure you get what archaeology is Platypus.

There is no reason why we cant do it at smaller levels with coming science.

The dead will rise or we will have failed to master the mathematics of the small.

Calculations can indeed be made ----.ZILLIONS of calculations for one event in the past.

Once you have established that ONE event (by description)
you have it as a definite object and it doesn't need to be calculated again.

Then you cross-reference it with zillions of other
In masses, in laws, in sweeps of numbers that would have been astounding even 10 years ago.


EVENT LINES PLOTTED BACK THRU TIME








These are graphically depicted, the maths will be much more dense, even for one event description like a leaf falls.


The assumptions I'm making in Quantum Archaeology is


1. Calculation power will vastly increase.

2. There are enough event points (artefact) in the present, to calculate the whole of the relevant past.

ONE EVENT 1000 years ago plotted from timelines and adjacent datas:



each event node is NOT static but changing.

Although this calls for vast computing resources, it is not infinite


Each past event is no more complicated than a simple inflatable map. ----There's just LOTS of it.


You accuse me of describing QA as Religion and that what I'm saying is possible is heaven?

But life better than for pre-technology man, and the Industrial revolution is less than 300 years old.

The USA only abolished slavery in 1861.

The internet is young and many sci-fi technologies are birthing as prototypes or actual human trials.


Event node for ONE sought event are described in relation to many others




So an event is dynamic calculations

One brain of say George Washington at the instant he loses consciousness


Is calculated from a protobrain, his DNA, and dynamcic event nodes of the environment (which includes other people then.

the memories of any brain are not random, NOR infinite, but fed by his biology and environmental events feeding it.

but is IS a maths equation!





calculations of event memories for a brain.


Markram Cortical column simulation (Project Bluebrain)




You should get down and boogey because you are going to retrieve ALL your memories
since you were a baby




..hopefully you wont have to die.

Cryonics, Quantum Archaeology and other futurists disciplines, should have research departments in the Singularity University.

[Julia36]

Quantum Archaeology hammers down the uniqueness of Man.

He is incapable of death because information is incapable of being destroyed.

A man is a piece of data.


DATA


DATA



It is our ego that interrupts science - that and fear of being unable to find happiness without meaning from the supernatural.



“The true value of a human being is determined primarily by the measure and the sense in which he has attained liberation from the self.”
---Albert Einstein Mein Weltbild (1934)


DATA



Data is as true describing it forwards as it is describing it backwards: That is the founding maxim of archaeology.


BACKWARDS DATA

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QA needs to be debated.
It would help if you can copy it to people who know about science/ and or resurrection.

Edited by Innocent, 10 June 2013 - 06:53 PM.

[Julia36]

FOR NEWBIES

Quantum Archeology (QA) - (Quantum Archaeology) also known as quantum resurrection, quantum information retrieval and time scanning, is a controversial and emerging idea in science about bringing the dead back to life.

Ancestor simulation - although at the end of time - has been speculated to be possible by Frank J. Tiper in 'The Physics of Immortality' in 1994, and Russian Cosmists ideated physical resurrection in the 19th century.

QA posits it will be available near the advent of post-human machine intelligence using emerging statistical probability and number crunching techniques to achieve massively accurate retrodiction. Robotic resurrection would then follow as science and technology converge.

Quantum Archaeology

There are accurate and more complex simulations of a galaxy and of the whole universe going back 13 billion years.



With coming computers we will be able to simulate the thoughts of dead men, their bodies, and resurrect them with robots.

[platypus]

2. There are enough event points (artefact) in the present, to calculate the whole of the relevant past.

What exactly makes you think that there are "enough event points" to do that?

[Julia36]

2. There are enough event points (artefact) in the present, to calculate the whole of the relevant past.

What exactly makes you think that there are "enough event points" to do that?

There are MORE event points in the present than the past.There is greater complexity and it is MUCH simpler to trace the past than capture the present.

Because

a) we are descended from a common tree of simpler life-forms.

b) the world is expanding. The number of events in the present is MORE than in the past.
That means you are not relying on one time line or history but have many more than your need to EXACTLY describe the past.

It means you can cross reference and check the time lines with artefacts from archaeology like spear heads, skeletons, the whole archaeological record, geological records etc.

We can demonstrate this in genetic algorithm tanks:



Events are never random but lawful. As we figure the laws we can add them with known events and calculate descriptions.
Then resurrect using micro-robots.
The quantum vs Classical debate will rage until we have more knowledge of the quantum world: I know it frustrates philosophers
But it is reasonable to suppose events exist there, they are governed by laws, and they affect each other..

Edited by Innocent, 11 June 2013 - 04:46 PM.