27 replies to this topic

[cowcow7]

Hey guys, I just started a new site about nootropics and supplement stacks. I wrote an article comparing these three racetams, keep in mind I am not the ultimate expert on them, so let me know if you think something should be added or changed. It's rather long so I'll post the link below. I really wanted to get longecity's opinion on if I had the right information here for my readers!

Personally, my favorite racetam is definitely Aniracetam, though I just recieved some noopept that I am liking rather well, but I need time to truly evaluate it. Aniracetam was great for my creativity, and my vision seemed deeper on it. It was a good feeling it gave too, very good stuff. Noopept is interesting because it kicks it faster, stronger, and lasts much longer. I'm really enjoying it, despite today being my second day on it. It does have a kind of weird feeling though.

Anyways, here's the link to the article I wrote. Let me know if you like it. Sorry for the length, otherwise I'd post it here >.<

Oxiracetam vs. Aniracetam vs. Pramiracetam Comparison

[LBGSHI]

An interesting page; well done.

However, I would say that the concept of one 'racetam being more 'potent' than another is flawed (I've made a separate thread about this), and that "choline is essential with ANY and ALL racetams to prevent a shortage of acetylcholine" is an inaccurate statement, as many people seem to be fine, or even experience better results, when taking no choline supplement at all (personally, I take alpha-GPC with my 'racetams).

[Daryl]

Not a bad article, site needs a bit of work. If you post on Elegant Themes support forums you can find the code to centre align your site logo. Enable the Akismet plugin to eliminate spam comments, I see you have a spam comment on that article already.

[SuperjackDid_]

racetam prevent shortage of acetylcholine level , no point to add more choline .


sound like another nootropic seller .

[LBGSHI]

racetam prevent shortage of acetylcholine level , no point to add more choline .


sound like another nootropic seller .

I don't believe you're correct.

What studies have concluded that any of the racetams act as acetylcholine precursors, re-uptake inhibitors, or acetylcholinesterase inhibitors? As far as I'm aware, this is not the case.

The reason that some people do not require acetylcholine supplementation with racetams is that they already have sufficiently high acetylcholine levels, usually from dietary sources (food).

[SuperjackDid_]

one of many research that racetam can prevent decrease in brain acetylcholine



Effect of piracetam on electroshock induced amnesia and decrease in brain acetylcholine in rats.

Bhattacharya SK, Upadhyay SN, Jaiswal AK.

Source

Department of Pharmacology, Banaras Hindu University, Varanasi, India.

Abstract

Piracetam, a prototype of a new class of psychotropic agents, the nootropic agents, which improve learning ability and memory retention, was found to induce a dose-related prevention of disruption of acquisition of a passive avoidance response produced by electroshock application. The amnesia attenuating effect of piracetam was accompanied by prevention of the decrease inacetylcholine concentrations of rat brain induced by electroshock. The study indicates that the cognition enhancing effect ofpiracetam may be due to a facilitatory effect on cholinergic transmission.

[LBGSHI]

Edit: I misread your response (above).

Interesting study; I've never read of such a result.

However, it should be noted that in the above study, acetylcholine was depleted via electroshock, and that this presupposes that the subject already has an acceptable level of acetylcholine on hand. If someone were to have a deficiency of acetylcholine, supplementation may be called for.

Edited by LBGSHI, 13 December 2012 - 05:51 PM.

[cowcow7]

Looks like I'm late to the party. I just want to say that I seem to remember seeing much more evidence, either from studies or user reports, that show evidence in choline supplementation being beneficial. Maybe I should write an article about this, there's nothing definitive out there and I would love to provide as much to the web as I can.

[lifebuddy]

dude, your site is a bit trashy... 'this works great' followed by 'oh by the way you can buy it here!'

[Nickthedevil]

If your trying to sell stuff through your site in some kind of affiliate arrangement, I'd say that was a good thing, just donate a portion of the proceeds to Longecity, you'll have a crew of people lining up to buy from you.

[cowcow7]

There's links to Amazon that I recieve like 6% if someone buys them. Not much, but I do like your idea about donating to Longecity, after all, giving back 5-10% minimum really wouldn't be that much.

I've had a similar idea however. One day soon, I hope to be able to open a nootropic store on the Braintropic website. My plan is to donate a portion of my profits to buying "rare" nootropics and giving them out for members of the community so we can get more developed information on future nootropics, similar to how that one guy was giving out Phenylpiracetam when it was still almost unheard of.

So yes, I will be donating to longecity. And in the future, I will be donating further by helping get new and unheard of nootropics out there to you guys. Can't forget this place, I learn so much here!

[gray.bot]

However, I would say that the concept of one 'racetam being more 'potent' than another is flawed (I've made a separate thread about this)

Wow wow wow? Huh?

Take 1000mg of Piracetam and compare against 1000 of Pramiracetam.

The Piracetam won't do shi7 - your better off taking 4.8grams.

The Pramiracetam will hit you so goddam hard you won't believe how fast the words come out of your mouth, and it will last for at least 8-10 hours.

LBGSHI send me to your thread on this! Please

[LBGSHI]

However, I would say that the concept of one 'racetam being more 'potent' than another is flawed (I've made a separate thread about this)

Wow wow wow? Huh?

Take 1000mg of Piracetam and compare against 1000 of Pramiracetam.

The Piracetam won't do shi7 - your better off taking 4.8grams.

The Pramiracetam will hit you so goddam hard you won't believe how fast the words come out of your mouth, and it will last for at least 8-10 hours.

LBGSHI send me to your thread on this! Please

Certainly, it appears that a lower dose of pramiracetam is required to cause a perceived effect than that of piracetam, but the effects are different, thus the statement is itself useless. No one would say that a certain kind of sleeping pill is more potent than a certain kind of anti-nausea pill, even if a smaller dose was required to cause a noticeable effect; they're two different drugs entirely.

Here's the thread I mentioned: http://www.longecity...nt/#entry551777

Edited by cryonicsculture, 06 August 2014 - 06:29 PM.

[rex]

nice site, unfortunatly pharmacies in Europe do not have all the racetams

[Sam375]

Interesting read

Would it be ok to stack all of them ?

[Seektruth]

So i guess aniracetam doesn't work well for all?
This morning I was taking oxi and aniracetam and went for acupuncture hoping that whatever i take goes to my head properly with acupuncture. I think i was wrong because I felt mentally tired, trying all my best to keep myself awake. You know that kind of feeling, where its not about having a lot of rest physically, the tiredness just puts you off, forbid you to even think. Its like after that I have decided to just pop in 160mg of pram then I feel the sudden mental clarity.

Advice me please, both aniracetam and pramiracetam are fat soluble, one boost the creative side while the other boost the logical side, as what you have discussed, so how can i effectively combine them properly? like should i take oxi + pram, or ani + pram, or oxi + ani? I think its pointless to take it and get the somewhat "änti-depressant" effects: shuts down your brain, making you feel like idiot, get fat etc.

It took me a long time to get out of it, i was hoping something better in the light of nootropics, really trusting all these, but can anyone advice me? I really want to be myself and be a cool individual but not when my mind isn't 'fixed'.

Your knowledge in this field is very important to me. Thanks guys!

[alecnevsky]

There is definitely something to NMDA/AMPA binding. I dosed pram+ani for like 2 months and quit (b/c it wasn't stimulating enough for my ends at the time) then trialed Piracetam for a month, the latter I found to be a mere mania-inducer at best. I recently redosed pram+ani+gpc and was blown away by the organic energy, rigor and scope of thinking and creativity. The key is to dose pram+ani s.t. you don't crash or take some excitatory cofactors.

Also check this out http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22702111

and: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17609677

After the termination of the nootropic treatment, a significant increase in both amplitude and frequency of AMPA receptor-mediated mEPSCs in hippocampal CA-1 pyramidal cells was observed."

Now go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_memory#Plasticity

Edited by alecnevsky, 19 March 2013 - 03:43 AM.

[2/1_kiwi]

Advice me please, both aniracetam and pramiracetam are fat soluble, one boost the creative side while the other boost the logical side, as what you have discussed, so how can i effectively combine them properly? like should i take oxi + pram, or ani + pram, or oxi + ani? I think its pointless to take it and get the somewhat "änti-depressant" effects: shuts down your brain, making you feel like idiot, get fat etc.

After a month on a pram + ani + noopept trial, im pretty happy. I started with single substances only, of all 3 racetams (ani,oxi,pram) and then combinations. Oxi was tempremental. Sometimes i felt on, others, nil effect. The Pram+ani+noopept gave me the clarity, 'out of box' creative thinking and motivation i needed. I was taking 200mg caffeine also with my morning dose, and maybe another 100mg if i felt i needed it at my lunchtime dosage.

Dosage was around:
Pram 300-400mg once day.
Ani 750mg three times a day.
Noopept 10mg three times a day.
Caffeine as stated previously, on an as needed basis.

I ordered from smartpowders and capped/weighed the dosages all myself.

I cant relate to it having any of the "anti-depressant" effects, but ive never been on SSRIs before so take my opinion with a grain of salt. I didnt feel "numb" or dumbed down. A bit spock like and focused, unemotive at times....but that when im most productive anyway. I like it. And the clarity and motivation was anything but sloth inducing. I train 6 times a week, both track and weight training/crossfit. I got exactly what i wanted out of my racetam trial, and will soon be trialing phenylpiracetam, Ladasten and hopfully modafinil.

[67limitless13]

Pramiracetam had a significant effect on my memory but impaired my reading (I read ALOT slower)

[Default8]

What are you reading? Reading a good book should be done slowly, take in the beauty of the words :D


Also OP's article says all racetams increase cAMP, can only find evidence that Piracetam and Aniracetam do. Would it be likely that the others do as well? He/she seems to be making some uncited sweeping statements, can any one with experience with all three racetams verify what OP found?

Edited by Default8, 05 July 2013 - 02:41 AM.

[3AlarmLampscooter]

Pramiracetam and Aniracetam I both felt to be not stimulating enough. I'm sort of a stimulant freak. I do like both to some degree, but I prefer Oxiracetam. And I prefer Phenylpiracetam most of all, due it being the most stimulating racetam.

[Hansen213]

And I prefer Phenylpiracetam most of all, due it being the most stimulating racetam.

How and with what do you cycle it?


Btw, I find it surprising how usually Piracetam is mentioned in the 1st place when talking about racetams, but from the replies so far it seems that the mentioned racetams are more effective in their own way (or at least more popular).

[Babychris]

How someone could bear the effect of pramiracetam and by extension could accept to be emotionless it seem for me the most profound anti-nootropic effect you could imagine as everything on earth is related to deepness of emotion.

that's related to my problem since I have tried and abused in some kind, pramiracetam and modafinil I feel a bit emotionless and constantly kind of irritated but whitout the agressiveness that I use to have. I'm more in control (I'm just taking Lion's mane, Omega 3 and a bit of piracetam which sometime makes me feel a bit overstimulated but in this bad way that I've described just before) I've just purchased today some OXI ANI and NEfi racetam hoping that one of those would help me to be fully aware for my big big exam coming soon.

[Sanguine_Rogue]

Pramiracetam hasn't made me feel as if I was emotionless or anything similar to that. Normally when I'm taking nootropics I feel a bit better or happier than normal, but that could just be due to me feeling more "productive". Personally I haven't tried any Modafinil, but I have gotten to take a bit of Adrafinil, and I found it to be pretty useful early in the mornings.

[ron45]

Seems kind of a loaded or unloaded in this case. Piracetam is not a choice. Minus it…. the others would hexomexosquatawaticil. Everyone's snorting this at the rave up. 

 

Got some pramiracetam on the way and some more piracetam for it to goose a little bit. 

 

Ron

[neurotropic]

Weird how the poll is split almost evenly. I liked pramiracetam more than piracetam. Haven't tried oxi, ani, or phenyl racetams yet. How does noopept or phenyl compare to oxi or ani?

[CWF1986]

^

 

For me oxi makes it easier to pay attention and switch between tasks without having to actively focus harder and gives me a little pep.  It helps quiet my mind a bit too but that might have something to do with my adhd.  Ani is like taking a mild-moderate strength antidepressant and anxiolytic in one and provides a small benefit in focus.  Phenyl doesn't give me any energy or pep, but it's by far the best at helping me focus on something once I get my attention on something.  However, it makes it harder to switch tasks and blunts emotions.  Noopept gives me a mood boost and gives me more 'aha!' moments during the creative process of whatever and helps me focus a little bit.  YMMV

[Tabsunder]

I prefer Pramiracetam over the other 2 racetams mentioned. Of course if I could I would honestly select all 3 of them, considering when used together I seem to experience a very nice stimulating effect.