92 replies to this topic

[idle talk]

Hi,
let me introduce myself
i am 22 years old, i am a swedish student (not for long i think :() and i was poisoned by parathion.
you ask how? well this is really stupid, my best friend who was a lot into "nootropics" told me he use drugs to improve his brain and i was interested a lot.
one day he brought what was an acetylcholineesterase inhibitor drug, i don't remember it's full name (something like G.....ine), he told me it's safe and all.
i took 2 tablets and 1 hour later i was in the hospital praying for my life, it started with heavy eye twitching, then spasms all over my body and my vision starting becoming blurry i started vomiting and my friend immediatly called the emergency, i was rushed to the emergency room and he told them i took that and they administered a drug thru IV.
i started feeling better and coming back to normal and the doctors told me it's an extreme allergic reaction and they kept me 1 day in the hospital for checkup.
not even 1 day after, i had a severe relapse, vision starting to become blurry again and my body was litteraly jumping from the stretcher!
I was readminsitered the same stuff again and they decided to make a blood test for toxic analysis, what they found is presence of parathion which is acetylcholineesterase inhibitor!
the doctor told me that i took a permanent toxic and i will have to take a treatment maybe for the rest of my life just to survive, i couldn't believe what i heard, i was extremely shocked and so was my friend.
we told him that i took the tablets he gave me and he agreed to make a test, it was indeed the parathion and my friend says this isn't what he ordered at all! he ordered the stuff on ebay from some nootropic vendor.
hopefully for him he didn't try the new batch but as for me the doctors gave me atropine to take everyday for at least 6 months and then come back for further checkup if the toxin got out of my system (the doctor says it's irreversible and will never get out of my system but he said time could also help very slow healing).
i know live a total horror story, it's not even a nightmare because nightmares do end, this doesn't end and seems to last forever.
the day i rushed to the hospital was 9 months ago, when i had a new appointment with the doctor he said he wouldn't give the drug for some hours and see if the symptoms come back, and they did, the toxin was still here! he gave me another 6 month prescription and he didn't tell me it's gonna be fine, he was straight with me and told me i will have to live with this forever.
but this isn't the end of the story, since this has happened, my brain has been worse than ever.
i will just list my symptoms that are always with me 24/7 :
- my cognitive function is highly disabled, i do not think anymore, i can't retain memory anymore, i read something it takes me a very long time to understand and even more to learn!
i have an hard time making sentences and my sociability is now zero, this is why i lost my friends
- i have no pleasure of anything, i enjoy nothing and nothing makes me laugh really
- i don't feel stuff anymore, i can touch objects but i don't feel them anymore, this is really strange and i have this with all my senses, my hearing is worthless i passed from something like stereo to mono and my smell my taste are almost nonexistent
- my mouth and nose are always dry and this makes me drink a lot of water all the day
- my vision is weird, the colors are ugly and this makes me even more depressive
i also have frequent flash of light coming out of nowhere
- i can never concentrate, i can just start watching a movie or a show and 2 mins later i need to do something else, i just switch to another task
- my brain is always racing, i feel speedy and never tired, i always need to think about something and this makes me never sleep, i sleep only 45 mins every 2-3 days, and my 45 mins sleep is interrupted 2 times, i wish i could just sleep forever and forget all this but my brain wants me to endure this horror all the time

i could go on for even more symptoms but i think this pretty much explain the situation i am, this is what i experience everyday for 9 months, the doctor said its brain damage due to poisoning and nothing can be done.
since now my life has been an horror, my best friend is still helping me but most of my friends don't understand my situation and stopped communicating with me.
i am not the man i was, my house is now a mess, i barely clean it (i used to but now i don't know it seems impossible to do it, i start cleaning and then switch to something else), i don't take care of me anymore, i don't study anymore too and everyday is an horror because i enjoy nothing and every second of my life is void of joy.
i am terrified by this situation and i am totally unable to do anything about it, i went on this forum because this is were my friend learnt about nootropic and acetylcholineesterase inhibitors, if anyone has an idea to reverse permanently the toxin and suppress it from my brain, i do not hope a lot but i would rather post something than stay alone without any clue.

thank you for reading me and sorry for my crappy english, it used to be very good but my memory problems are makign me having a hard time writing in english and even my native language

NOTE: IF YOU READ THE REST OF THIS THREAD YOU'LL REALIZE THIS IS MOST LIKELY A FABRICATION AND AN UNTRUE ACCOUNT

Edited by manic_racetam, 15 January 2013 - 08:29 PM.

[idle talk]

i thought acetylcholineesterase inhibitors were safe, why did it poison me?

[Werper]

Parathion is a cholinesterase inhibitor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parathion

[LBGSHI]

More importantly, it's a pseudo-permanent inhibitor. More accurately, symptoms usually subside within several months at most, but if you suffered severe brain damage due to hypoxia, that might be permanent.

[synaptiq]

The long-term poisoning is because the parathion (actually its active metabolite paraoxon) binds irreversibly to acetylcholinesterase. The atropine is anticholinergic and needs to be taken until your body has regenerated the acetylcholinesterase. However, some of the current symptoms you're describing sound like anticholinergic toxicity - look up atropine poisoning or datura. Additionally, there may be a withdrawal effect if the atropine is stopped suddenly, and this would mimic the original poisoning symptoms. With a doctor's supervision, you may want to try gradually reducing the atropine dosage until you find the minimum that keeps the symptoms at bay. Right now, it's hard to say which problems are from too much atropine (as you've likely regained at least a bit of acetylcholinesterase function) and what's damage from the initial poisoning.

[synaptiq]

I just realized you didn't actually mention what drug you're currently taking. I assumed it was atropine, but it is certainly some sort of anticholinergic drug, and everything I said would still apply.

[LBGSHI]

I just realized you didn't actually mention what drug you're currently taking. I assumed it was atropine, but it is certainly some sort of anticholinergic drug, and everything I said would still apply.

He did mention that he's taking atropine, so you were spot-on.

[synaptiq]

I guess so. I just missed it on the second reading and couldn't tell if I'd seen it in the post or if my brain filled it in from having read that atropine is the most common antidote. But anyway, the dry mouth and visual flashes are classic anticholinergic symptoms. The rest could also be explained by anticholinergic toxicity, but brain damage can't be ruled out until the atropine dose is titrated down. Still, I think there's still plenty of reason to be hopeful here.

[LBGSHI]

Agreed; I'd wager he'll have roughly a full recovery in under a year, if I had to bet one way or another.

[stablemind]

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9789840

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12615598

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15495687

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19778163

Keyword: organophosphate poisoning

Sorry I cannot summarize these abstracts, I do not want to give false information but it looks like there are quite a few treatment options. I'm sorry this has happened to you. I can't believe a seller on Ebay would be selling this. If you don't mind, can you provide the link to this seller so others can avoid buying from them?

Edited by stablemind, 20 December 2012 - 10:40 PM.

[synaptiq]

Oximes probably won't do much this long after the fact. There's a secondary "aging" reaction that prevents hydrolysis of the phosphate from the AChE active site, and at this point nearly all the inhibited enzyme has gone through that reaction. However, more enzyme will be synthesized over time, and tests for serum cholinesterase activity would show how far along this process is.

[stablemind]

Oximes probably won't do much this long after the fact. There's a secondary "aging" reaction that prevents hydrolysis of the phosphate from the AChE active site, and at this point nearly all the inhibited enzyme has gone through that reaction. However, more enzyme will be synthesized over time, and tests for serum cholinesterase activity would show how far along this process is.

I think it's a good idea too. OP should get this tested.

[health_nutty]

I'm so sorry this happened to you. This sounds awful, a worst case scenerio that in the back of my mind that I fear.

[stablemind]

I'm so sorry this happened to you. This sounds awful, a worst case scenerio that in the back of my mind that I fear.

This is making me think twice before buying supplements from new suppliers. How the fuck can someone accidentally mix up Parathion with a Nootropic?!?

[synaptiq]

I'm so sorry this happened to you. This sounds awful, a worst case scenerio that in the back of my mind that I fear.

This is making me think twice before buying supplements from new suppliers. How the fuck can someone accidentally mix up Parathion with a Nootropic?!?

I'm terrified to think about this too. This is either a complete psychopath deliberately poisoning people, or someone who barely understands what they're even selling and thought "oh hey this other chemical is an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor - good enough" when they ran out of galantamine.

[idle talk]

thank you all for your answers, i will try answering as much as i can

More importantly, it's a pseudo-permanent inhibitor. More accurately, symptoms usually subside within several months at most, but if you suffered severe brain damage due to hypoxia, that might be permanent.

i don't think i had hypoxia, if you mean my brain was deprived of oxygen? no it never happened hopefully but i don't know if the parathion caused hypoxia (is that possible)? if it was causing the hypoxia i would be totally brain dead now true?

The long-term poisoning is because the parathion (actually its active metabolite paraoxon) binds irreversibly to acetylcholinesterase. The atropine is anticholinergic and needs to be taken until your body has regenerated the acetylcholinesterase. However, some of the current symptoms you're describing sound like anticholinergic toxicity - look up atropine poisoning or datura. Additionally, there may be a withdrawal effect if the atropine is stopped suddenly, and this would mimic the original poisoning symptoms. With a doctor's supervision, you may want to try gradually reducing the atropine dosage until you find the minimum that keeps the symptoms at bay. Right now, it's hard to say which problems are from too much atropine (as you've likely regained at least a bit of acetylcholinesterase function) and what's damage from the initial poisoning.

I guess so. I just missed it on the second reading and couldn't tell if I'd seen it in the post or if my brain filled it in from having read that atropine is the most common antidote. But anyway, the dry mouth and visual flashes are classic anticholinergic symptoms. The rest could also be explained by anticholinergic toxicity, but brain damage can't be ruled out until the atropine dose is titrated down. Still, I think there's still plenty of reason to be hopeful here.

thank you thank you!
i looked up for anticholinergic : http://en.wikipedia....Anticholinergic
i have almost all symptoms, agitation, photophobia, my pupils are well dilated, everything.
so this is the atropine?? parathion is not the culprit? but the doctor said it was parathion brain damage and if i reduce atropine parathion symptoms will show up, i read the wikipedia article of parathion, it is totally irreversible omg, i am only 22 and have some 50-70 years more to live and i will have to take atropine to survive?

from the wikipedia article, the parathion can be eliminated with hydrolysis, how do you do that? can i or a doctor do that?

Degradation of parathion leads to more water soluble products. Hydrolysis, which deactivates the molecule, occurs at the aryl ester bond resulting in diethyl thiophosphate and 4-nitrophenol.^[2]

Agreed; I'd wager he'll have roughly a full recovery in under a year, if I had to bet one way or another.

In 3 months you think? half way when the doctor was monitoring me to see if the parathion was gone, the symptoms restarted after atropine treatment stopped some hours after.
if it's irreversible how can it be fine in the future?

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9789840

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12615598

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15495687

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19778163

Keyword: organophosphate poisoning

Sorry I cannot summarize these abstracts, I do not want to give false information but it looks like there are quite a few treatment options. I'm sorry this has happened to you. I can't believe a seller on Ebay would be selling this. If you don't mind, can you provide the link to this seller so others can avoid buying from them?

thanks for that, i found pralidoxime it seems to destroy the parathion : http://en.wikipedia....iki/Pralidoxime
why didn't the doctor give that? did he think it's risky or something? i was only given atropine and nothing else.
as for the name of the seller, i dont have it but i asked my friend to find it, he didn't manage to find in ebay but he knows the seller was selling from UK and was based in eastern europe and his nickname had the word nootropic, he was also selling other nootropics like racetams.

I'm so sorry this happened to you. This sounds awful, a worst case scenerio that in the back of my mind that I fear.

This is making me think twice before buying supplements from new suppliers. How the fuck can someone accidentally mix up Parathion with a Nootropic?!?

we tried asking information to the vendor but he was a total jerk and said this is none of his business and said it was an allergic reaction! of course the nootropic he sold has nothing to do with laboratory analysis!
my friend said anyway that he didn't give a certificate and that it's probably stuff from china and probably the chinese vendor sent the wrong chemical or it was poisoned. (i heard there's parathion in drinking water in china maybe it is the cause?)

I'm so sorry this happened to you. This sounds awful, a worst case scenerio that in the back of my mind that I fear.

This is making me think twice before buying supplements from new suppliers. How the fuck can someone accidentally mix up Parathion with a Nootropic?!?

I'm terrified to think about this too. This is either a complete psychopath deliberately poisoning people, or someone who barely understands what they're even selling and thought "oh hey this other chemical is an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor - good enough" when they ran out of galantamine.

yes this is the name i was looking for, galantamine was what i was supposed to take, galantamine doesn't seem very dangerous and it is reversible, i clearly did not take galantamine!

but with all this information, i still don't know what to really do. i will make an appointment with my physician and ask what he can do and maybe talk about pralidoxine.
but now i want to now what nootropics i can take (and real ones not poisons!) because my brain seems to be permanently damaged and this really scares me.

i am terrified in any case that some sellers do not even test what they sell, isn't this the basic thing to do? with all chemicals coming from china they should know it is something dangerous!

[idle talk]

omg i just read that in the pralidoxime article

After some time though, some inhibitors can develop a permanent bond with cholinesterase, known as aging, where oximes such as pralidoxime can not reverse the bond

so in fact this is why i wasn't given this drug? my cholinesterase has a permanent bond with the parathion? this is hopeless then there is no issue!
i don't know how tiny this is but if there is no drug even brain surgery cannot renew the cholinesterase!

[LBGSHI]

i don't think i had hypoxia, if you mean my brain was deprived of oxygen? no it never happened hopefully but i don't know if the parathion caused hypoxia (is that possible)? if it was causing the hypoxia i would be totally brain dead now true?

No; hypoxia will only cause brain damage if it is severe or long in duration (or both).

as for the name of the seller, i dont have it but i asked my friend to find it, he didn't manage to find in ebay but he knows the seller was selling from UK and was based in eastern europe and his nickname had the word nootropic, he was also selling other nootropics like racetams.

we tried asking information to the vendor but he was a total jerk and said this is none of his business and said it was an allergic reaction! of course the nootropic he sold has nothing to do with laboratory analysis!
my friend said anyway that he didn't give a certificate and that it's probably stuff from china and probably the chinese vendor sent the wrong chemical or it was poisoned. (i heard there's parathion in drinking water in china maybe it is the cause?)

So in one paragraph you don't know who the seller is and your friend can't remember, and in the next paragraph your friend talked to the seller since the poisoning and the seller 'acted like a jerk'?

I'm not sure I believe this story.

What's more strange is that someone would even have parathion in the same facility as galantamine. Perhaps your friend did a quick Google search for acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, found out that parathion is a potent one, and ordered it from a chemical supply company without a second thought; then when you got sick, looked up a 'safe' acetylcholinesterase inhibitor and told you he ordered that. This seems like a much more logical assumption.

It's also strange that your friend ordered this stuff, shared some with you, yet conveniently never tried it himself. Either this is extreme coincidence, or your friend isn't being honest (or tried to kill you). However, there is also the possibility that you're making this up. I know, I know...no one ever lies on internet forums.

You also mention that you got this drug from your 'best friend':

you ask how? well this is really stupid, my best friend who was a lot into "nootropics" told me he use drugs to improve his brain and i was interested a lot.

...yet you then imply that you're not sure if he took the drug or not (obviously not, because he didn't go to the emergency room or die):

hopefully for him he didn't try the new batch

...and you imply you're not sure in the present tense (as in, you're still not sure), despite the fact that this apparently happened 9 months ago:

the day i rushed to the hospital was 9 months ago

This is your best friend, who just gave you a deadly poison which almost took your life, and you're not even sure if he took it as well? Aren't you concerned about your best friend enough to find out whether or not he's dying from a lethal poison, for 9 months? However, it's not because you stopped talking to your best friend, because you then state:

my best friend is still helping me

This is yet another piece of the story that makes no sense.

Also:

i went on this forum because this is were my friend learnt about nootropic and acetylcholineesterase inhibitors

Please tell us who your friend is.

Finally, in case you're really telling the truth (somehow), or for the sake of education:

i read the wikipedia article of parathion, it is totally irreversible omg

No, it isn't, and if you did read the Wikipedia article, you'd know that: "Symptoms of poisoning are known to last for extended periods of time, sometimes months." Nowhere in the Wikipedia article does it state that parathion's effects are irreversible.

Edited by LBGSHI, 21 December 2012 - 06:13 PM.

[idle talk]

i don't think i had hypoxia, if you mean my brain was deprived of oxygen? no it never happened hopefully but i don't know if the parathion caused hypoxia (is that possible)? if it was causing the hypoxia i would be totally brain dead now true?

No; hypoxia will only cause brain damage if it is severe or long in duration (or both).

as for the name of the seller, i dont have it but i asked my friend to find it, he didn't manage to find in ebay but he knows the seller was selling from UK and was based in eastern europe and his nickname had the word nootropic, he was also selling other nootropics like racetams.

we tried asking information to the vendor but he was a total jerk and said this is none of his business and said it was an allergic reaction! of course the nootropic he sold has nothing to do with laboratory analysis!
my friend said anyway that he didn't give a certificate and that it's probably stuff from china and probably the chinese vendor sent the wrong chemical or it was poisoned. (i heard there's parathion in drinking water in china maybe it is the cause?)

So in one paragraph you don't know who the seller is and your friend can't remember, and in the next paragraph your friend talked to the seller since the poisoning and the seller 'acted like a jerk'?

I'm not sure I believe this story.

What's more strange is that someone would even have parathion in the same facility as galantamine. Perhaps your friend did a quick Google search for acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, found out that parathion is a potent one, and ordered it from a chemical supply company without a second thought; then when you got sick, looked up a 'safe' acetylcholinesterase inhibitor and told you he ordered that. This seems like a much more logical assumption.

It's also strange that your friend ordered this stuff, shared some with you, yet conveniently never tried it himself. Either this is extreme coincidence, or your friend isn't being honest (or tried to kill you). However, there is also the possibility that you're making this up. I know, I know...no one ever lies on internet forums.

You also mention that you got this drug from your 'best friend':

you ask how? well this is really stupid, my best friend who was a lot into "nootropics" told me he use drugs to improve his brain and i was interested a lot.

...yet you then imply that you're not sure if he took the drug or not (obviously not, because he didn't go to the emergency room or die):

hopefully for him he didn't try the new batch

...and you imply you're not sure in the present tense (as in, you're still not sure), despite the fact that this apparently happened 9 months ago:

the day i rushed to the hospital was 9 months ago

This is your best friend, who just gave you a deadly poison which almost took your life, and you're not even sure if he took it as well? Aren't you concerned about your best friend enough to find out whether or not he's dying from a lethal poison, for 9 months? However, it's not because you stopped talking to your best friend, because you then state:

my best friend is still helping me

This is yet another piece of the story that makes no sense.

Also:

i went on this forum because this is were my friend learnt about nootropic and acetylcholineesterase inhibitors

Please tell us who your friend is.

Finally, in case you're really telling the truth (somehow), or for the sake of education:

i read the wikipedia article of parathion, it is totally irreversible omg

No, it isn't, and if you did read the Wikipedia article, you'd know that: "Symptoms of poisoning are known to last for extended periods of time, sometimes months." Nowhere in the Wikipedia article does it state that parathion's effects are irreversible.

i asked him to loookback on ebay in messages and the seller we talked to was blisssfulfoods2011 and no he didn't order on google, it was on ebay not the same thing!
i took the tablets from the box, the box was green and it was written in russian that's all i remember but i am sure it was approved medication, there's no parathion used as a medical treatment!
he did try the galantamine too but not from the same box, he gave me a box for me the only possibility we can think of is the box was the bad one but he threw the other boxes he had too.
you are saying horrible things about my friend, he was the only one to cheer me up and it's the only person i talk to besides of my family, he's always on my side and even with my terrible symptoms he still wants to have time with me and talk not like the other jerks who are not my friends anymore.
the monster is you for saying such terrible words to me, i can't imagine one second he would do that, if he was why did he keep being my friend, are you thinking of what you say?

No, it isn't, and if you did read the Wikipedia article, you'd know that: "Symptoms of poisoning are known to last for extended periods of time, sometimes months." Nowhere in the Wikipedia article does it state that parathion's effects are irreversible.

some inhibitors can develop a permanent bond with cholinesterase, known as aging, where oximes such as pralidoxime can not reverse the bond

can not reverse the bond can not reverse the bond, what do you think this means? i am no expert but the thing i understand is this cannot be reversed and when you quote this article it doesn't say if the patient continued the atropine treatment after or not, does it?

[stablemind]

[quote]

[quote]
as for the name of the seller, i dont have it but i asked my friend to find it, he didn't manage to find in ebay but he knows the seller was selling from UK and was based in eastern europe and his nickname had the word nootropic, he was also selling other nootropics like racetams.
[/quote]

[quote]
we tried asking information to the vendor but he was a total jerk and said this is none of his business and said it was an allergic reaction! of course the nootropic he sold has nothing to do with laboratory analysis!
my friend said anyway that he didn't give a certificate and that it's probably stuff from china and probably the chinese vendor sent the wrong chemical or it was poisoned. (i heard there's parathion in drinking water in china maybe it is the cause?)
[/quote]

So in one paragraph you don't know who the seller is and your friend can't remember, and in the next paragraph your friend talked to the seller since the poisoning and the seller 'acted like a jerk'?

I'm not sure I believe this story.
[/quote]

What part doesn't make sense? When he talked to the seller it could have been many months ago and maybe the seller has since de-activated his account. However, it's still possible to trace the seller, and if OP really wanted to track the seller, he could ask his friend for his email and do a search on the contaminated drug and pull up the seller's name. Or, the OP could go on his friend's Ebay account and check the history. If OP's friend denies OP's request, then this may have been an error on OP's friend's side, however either way it won't make a difference and we should concentrate on finding a solution for OP.


[quote]What's more strange is that someone would even have parathion in the same facility as galantamine. Perhaps your friend did a quick Google search for acetylcholinesterase inhibitors, found out that parathion is a potent one, and ordered it from a chemical supply company without a second thought; then when you got sick, looked up a 'safe' acetylcholinesterase inhibitor and told you he ordered that. This seems like a much more logical assumption.

It's also strange that your friend ordered this stuff, shared some with you, yet conveniently never tried it himself. Either this is extreme coincidence, or your friend isn't being honest (or tried to kill you). However, there is also the possibility that you're making this up. I know, I know...no one ever lies on internet forums.

You also mention that you got this drug from your 'best friend':

[quote]
you ask how? well this is really stupid, my best friend who was a lot into "nootropics" told me he use drugs to improve his brain and i was interested a lot.
[/quote]

...yet you then imply that you're not sure if he took the drug or not (obviously not, because he didn't go to the emergency room or die):[/quote]

He's implying that he took OTHER drugs and he's not sure if he took this specific drug, maybe because his friend ordered a new batch and had him test it out first. Where does it say he's not sure if his friend took the specific drug?

[quote]

"hopefully for him he didn't try the new batch but as for me the doctors gave me atropine to take everyday for at least 6 months"
[/quote]

This may be due to word choice error since English is his second language and his cognitive dysfunction may not be helping either. He may have intended to use "Thankfully".


[quote][quote]
[quote]
hopefully for him he didn't try the new batch
[/quote]

...and you imply you're not sure in the present tense (as in, you're still not sure), despite the fact that this apparently happened 9 months ago:[/quote]

[quote]
the day i rushed to the hospital was 9 months ago
[/quote]

This is your best friend, who just gave you a deadly poison which almost took your life, and you're not even sure if he took it as well? Aren't you concerned about your best friend enough to find out whether or not he's dying from a lethal poison, for 9 months? However, it's not because you stopped talking to your best friend, because you then state:[/quote]


If 9 months has passed and he's fine, he probably doesn't think concern is necessary, especially since he didn't exhibit the symptoms OP exhibited.


[quote]
my best friend is still helping me
[/quote]


Also:

[quote]
i went on this forum because this is were my friend learnt about nootropic and acetylcholineesterase inhibitors
[/quote]


[quote]Please tell us who your friend is.

[/quote]


How is asking him for his friend's name going to prove this story really did take place? There is no reason for him to troll over something like this and when someone's brain is fucked up, of course they are going to make poor logical decisions when writing. It makes plenty of sense that one of the seller's batches from China may have been mixed up or contaminated. Also, I don't think its a wise decision to have him think about conspiracies against him at this point especially since his friend is the only person he's talking to and who is helping him. Instead we should help OP recover FIRST before talking about said topic.

Edited by stablemind, 21 December 2012 - 07:13 PM.

[LBGSHI]

the monster is you for saying such terrible words to me, i can't imagine one second he would do that, if he was why did he keep being my friend, are you thinking of what you say?

Certainly, accusations of attempted murder or disregard for human life are horrible, yet it's not out of the question to suspect, in such a bizarre story. No one should avoid mentioning an obvious possibility just because it might hurt someone's feelings, especially when it concerns life and death.

can not reverse the bond can not reverse the bond, what do you think this means? i am no expert but the thing i understand is this cannot be reversed and when you quote this article it doesn't say if the patient continued the atropine treatment after or not, does it?

That article doesn't refer to parathion. Not all organophosphates are identical in behavior. More importantly, I was responding to your specific comment concerning the Wikipedia article, which you clearly didn't read because you cited it as proof that the effects of parathion are 'irreversible', which isn't true, and isn't mentioned anywhere in the article.

I find your story unlikely to be true. If it is true, then I wish you a fast, full recovery. Let us know how this progresses.

[LBGSHI]

There is no reason for him to troll over something like this and when someone's brain is fucked up, of course they are going to make poor logical decisions when writing. It makes plenty of sense that one of the seller's batches from China may have been mixed up or contaminated.

Right, this is not an impossible story, just an unlikely one. I do agree that we should try to help the OP, and wish him a great recovery. However, as I believe the chances are rather high that this is just a troll having 'fun', I think it's wise to keep that possibility in mind and address it before we continue. It would be a shame if one false story of a deadly pesticide being ingested in place of a nootropic scared a huge portion of the nootropics community away and hurt this great community.

We can make excuses concerning his English language skills and his potential brain damage, but this doesn't explain his plain statements, which make no sense. If I had to bet one way or another, I would be assured in betting this is a false story, with the knowledge that there is, of course, some small chance of it being true.

[renfr]

I think you have some misconceptions about parathion and its mechanism.
First, I would like to tell you that you are going to be fine, it may take some more months but there is no way you will end up with parathion toxicity for the rest of your life.
Second, you do not seem to understand the mechanism of parathion and to make it simple parathion is a drug that permanently binds to enzyme acetylcholinesterase. The drug entered in your system and formed bonds with most of the enzyme.
Enzymes are proteins that are synthetized everyday in your system in order to catalyse chemical reactions.
This means that every day new acetylcholinesterase enzymes are being formed and that sooner or later your system will restore its natural balance that was disturbed with parathion poisoning.
In other terms, parathion destroyed your enzymes through irreversible binding but your body creates them everyday and in a matter of months you will recover from the poisoning.
However, your symptoms are clearly symptoms of acute atropinization, atropine is indeed responsible for all your current symptoms.
Also your doctor doesn't seem to be very professional or he doesn't care about your case because a relapse in cholinergic symptoms does NOT mean that parathion is still causing troubles.
Remember that you took atropine which is a strong anticholinergic, it blocks acetylcholine receptors and your brain in order to balance it all will create more of the receptors making you more sensitive to acetylcholine, atropine withdrawal can therefore result in acute cholinergic symptoms and this is probably why you and your doctor thought it was a parathion relapse, but it probably isn't.
You should make an appointment with another doctor so that you can organize a safe withdrawal from atropine.
I don't know what is the half-life of parathion, results show up 690 days but this is not the biological half-life, if you are really unsure about the outcome of parathion in your system you should make another bloodtest for parathion but I guess it is probably gone from your system.
Last but not least, I know what is an anticholinergic syndrome when I take cold medication and I do understand your terrible despair, I hope you can understand what I said because you have to know that the poisoning is not permanent and that you will recover very soon and enjoy your life again.
Keep up, your life is not over, you will soon recover.

There is no reason for him to troll over something like this and when someone's brain is fucked up, of course they are going to make poor logical decisions when writing. It makes plenty of sense that one of the seller's batches from China may have been mixed up or contaminated.

Right, this is not an impossible story, just an unlikely one. I do agree that we should try to help the OP, and wish him a great recovery. However, as I believe the chances are rather high that this is just a troll having 'fun', I think it's wise to keep that possibility in mind and address it before we continue. It would be a shame if one false story of a deadly pesticide being ingested in place of a nootropic scared a huge portion of the nootropics community away and hurt this great community.

We can make excuses concerning his English language skills and his potential brain damage, but this doesn't explain his plain statements, which make no sense. If I had to bet one way or another, I would be assured in betting this is a false story, with the knowledge that there is, of course, some small chance of it being true.

I honestly don't think he's a troll, in fact I don't understand why would a troll make such a thread?
If it was to scare people away from the nootropic community then probably Officer Friendly sitting in his office is behind that.
But why for?

Edited by renfr, 21 December 2012 - 07:43 PM.

[LBGSHI]

I honestly don't think he's a troll, in fact I don't understand why would a troll make such a thread?
If it was to scare people away from the nootropic community then probably Officer Friendly sitting in his office is behind that.
But why for?

I could only speculate, but someone who owns an American nootropics business would benefit from scaring customers away from Chinese suppliers with a thread like this. There are obviously other possibilities, including the inexplicable - I've known people in high school who would put nails under someone's tires even if they didn't know the person, and wouldn't see the effects, simply because it entertained them to know that later, this would cause the person trouble. Some people are just jerks. I'm sure you've read posts by trolls before, and while there's no monetary or direct logical reason for their internet activities, nonetheless they continue trolling, even weaving complicated webs of deception for entertainment or to fill some social hole in their lives. There are, as you're no doubt aware, people in the world who've poisoned their children to get attention of people who feel sorry for their motherly grief at a dying or dead child. To delve into the psychology behind someone trolling about a life and death accident is beyond the scope of this thread; suffice to say, I think this is such a case, and there are signs that I'm correct.

Nonetheless, I could be wrong. If I am, as I've mentioned thrice now, I wish the OP a speedy recovery. If I'm right, I hope the OP drops off the face of the earth, because a prank like this just isn't funny.

Edited by LBGSHI, 22 December 2012 - 11:29 PM.

[Krabby]

Good luck OP, Hope you get better soon.
I will make sure to take any medication in small quantities before undergoing complete consumption.

[idle talk]

hello all
thank you all for your support but the situation has gotten worse
i went to the doctor (not the same from the hospital) and told him the situation and suspect my symptoms is because of atropine!
he said this is impossible because of parathion toxicity and the symptoms is permanent brain damage, i said the symptoms are the same of anti cholinergic but he refuse to admit.
i talked about pralidoxime but he said this sin't effective at all
he gave me desitin that is diazepam for anxiety and refuse to withdraw atropine saying it could kill me, i had no choice but to leave unsatistifed
i asked the pharmacist to help me with atropine withdrawal, he refused and said that i should do like the doctor directed
i was very disapointed and i tried withdrawing atropine myself, i just cut it in half and took half of it only one day in the morning but the night i had severe symptoms, i was spasmatic everywhere, i took the other half and it resolved
now i don't know if it's parathion coming back or atropine withdrawal, the doctors are sure of them, why would they lie?
i am very desperate, what can I do, it seems there is nothing i can do

[Valor5]

I didn't read the whole thread but atropine I believe is used also for poisoning from wolfbane and they are counter antidotes to one another. But you may have to verify this. I know physostigmine is the antidote for scopolamine which may be similar to atropine, not sure. But atropine is a poison and a very strong one and it probably is not something you take for the long run but I am not a toxicologist not even a med student.

Atropine poisoning may be countered by physostigmine or pilocarpine.

Atropine is incapacitating at doses of 10 to 20 mg per person. Its LD₅₀ is estimated to be 453 mg per person (per oral) with a probit slope of 1.8.^[8] The antidote to atropine is physostigmine or pilocarpine.
A common mnemonic used to describe the physiologic manifestations of atropine overdose is: "hot as a hare, blind as a bat, dry as a bone, red as a beet, and mad as a hatter".^[9] These associations reflect the specific changes of warm, dry skin from decreased sweating, blurry vision, decreased sweating/lacrimation, vasodilation, and central nervous system effects on muscarinic receptors, type 4 and 5. This set of symptoms is known as anticholinergic toxidrome, and may also be caused by other drugs with anticholinergic effects, such as scopolamine, diphenhydramine, phenothiazine antipsychotics and benztropine.^[10]

Edited by valory5, 28 December 2012 - 02:44 AM.

[alecnevsky]

Hope you recover soon OP. No one should ever buy consumables from Ebay--these people are not listed anywhere. You wouldn't buy "pramiracetam" from some bro set up girl scout-like near a grocery store would you?

On another note, it's kind of ridiculous that Amazon pulled piracetam but you have ebay "professionals" pushing industrial chemicals that wouldn't even make it onto silkroad. And, if this is some kind of "campaign against the American merchants," then the American merchants should invest some resources into making themselves more competitive by listing independent lab analyses instead of using Chinese certificates and passing the responsibility 6000 miles away. GTFO.

Edited by alecnevsky, 28 December 2012 - 01:39 PM.

[renfr]

hello all
thank you all for your support but the situation has gotten worse
i went to the doctor (not the same from the hospital) and told him the situation and suspect my symptoms is because of atropine!
he said this is impossible because of parathion toxicity and the symptoms is permanent brain damage, i said the symptoms are the same of anti cholinergic but he refuse to admit.
i talked about pralidoxime but he said this sin't effective at all
he gave me desitin that is diazepam for anxiety and refuse to withdraw atropine saying it could kill me, i had no choice but to leave unsatistifed
i asked the pharmacist to help me with atropine withdrawal, he refused and said that i should do like the doctor directed
i was very disapointed and i tried withdrawing atropine myself, i just cut it in half and took half of it only one day in the morning but the night i had severe symptoms, i was spasmatic everywhere, i took the other half and it resolved
now i don't know if it's parathion coming back or atropine withdrawal, the doctors are sure of them, why would they lie?
i am very desperate, what can I do, it seems there is nothing i can do

These doctors are really idiots. Try calling other doctors in order to find a doctor willing to make an atropine withdrawal, there must be one.

Hope you recover soon OP. No one should ever buy consumables from Ebay--these people are not listed anywhere. You wouldn't buy "pramiracetam" from some bro set up girl scout-like near a grocery store would you?

On another note, it's kind of ridiculous that Amazon pulled piracetam but you have ebay "professionals" pushing industrial chemicals that wouldn't even make it onto silkroad. And, if this is some kind of "campaign against the American merchants," then the American merchants should invest some resources into making themselves more competitive by listing independent lab analyses instead of using Chinese certificates and passing the responsibility 6000 miles away. GTFO.

Nootrabiolabs seems to be one of the most reliable sources on the internet at least from what I know.
They get their stuff analysed by Avomeen which is an US company, not some chinese unreliable crap certificate.
If you buy nootropics in capsules, be careful when it comes from the UK, you don't want capsules to have the deadly prion in it.

Edited by Mind, 19 April 2014 - 10:12 AM.

[synaptiq]

What dose of atropine do you take and how often do you take it?