63 replies to this topic

[Sabrina Sambodhi]

I would recommend learning about Iodine supplementation and avoiding fluoridated water, also I would recommend learning about chelation, free radicals and antioxidants, perhaps a guide to detoxification of heavy metals that includes protecting the body/brain from re-absorption.

[Sabrina Sambodhi]

excuse me, limitless.

N-Acetyl-Cysteine

i was wondering why you recommended this supplement? what does it target? also, if i introduce a diet rich in vegetables but don't remove allergens, will I still see effects?

If I may answer, N Acetyl L Cysteine is a precursor to L Glutatione which is the human body's own anti-oxidant and chelating substance. Taking N Acetyl L Cysteine is said to produce more L Glutathione in the human body. Taking N Acetyl L Cysteine is one method of increasing GSH (also known as L Glutathione). Other methods that I know of include L Glutathione IV drips and suppositories. L Glutathione helps to protect against heavy metal toxicity, I currently use it with EDTA, and Coffee Extract (as a suppository) to safely detox along with re-mineralized distilled water since I am attempting to avoid tap water. Where I live fluoride compounds (etc.) are added to the drinking water. Prozac is a drug made from fluorides because fluorides change how your brain functions.. Cipro is a drug made from fluorides because fluorides are good at killing things. I have yet to convince anyone else that tap water in areas where water is fluoridated is bad to ingest and I have given up trying but for myself I will continue to avoid it for as long as I can. Also a boron and iodine supplement are good if one is concerned about fluorides and detoxifying from metals. I recommend doing your own research and coming up with your own conclusions, don't take any single person's any single institution's or association or any single goverment agency's word for it. The more you look into it the more you will find.

Edited by Sabrina Sambodhi, 04 January 2013 - 06:53 AM.

[digik]

Hey vtrader,

I registered to reply to your post, since I was battling similar brain fog and depression issues over the past year.

One thing no one has asked is whether you drink coffee caffeine on a regular basis or not? Even after putting together a pretty good supplement stack, I was still suffering from daily brain fog, lethargy, and headaches after waking, and I found through some experimentation that the coffee/caffeine addiction/tolerance was the culprit. I found I had to be all in (i.e.: multiple cups a day) or all out with coffee; otherwise, I would suffer daily withdrawal and recovery lag lasting multiple hours from the presumable adrenal fatigue & glutamate excitotoxicity, a longterm effect of caffeine intake. Certainly something to try if you've been a coffee addict.

If you're looking to roundout your supplement stack beyond encompassing your existing supps into a well-rounded multivitamin (which will include things mentioned like iodine and be more economical) along with Omega 3 and antioxidants, you might want to check out a few of these based on my positive experiences to help with motivation:

• A good magnesium suplement as it's an essential precursor to many neurotransmitters, has been implicated in greatly improving dysthymia/depression, and will help calm your agitated states
• Citicoline which will work synergistically with tyrosine to increase dompamine synapses, activate tyrosine hyrdoxylase, and increase Neuron Growth Factor, thus potentially greatly improving your motivation and lifting the fog through neuron repair.
• This is a little off-label since you don't describe depression, but a quality St. John's Wort like Nature's Way Perika could also be useful for its powerful anti-inflammatory properties and novel, semi-selective neurotransmitter uptake inhibition. This could be very activating and uplifting for you.

As for the recent antibiotic regimen, it's possible your gut flora and fauna are imbalanced, preventing your body from absorbing the nutrients it needs. Get yourself a good probiotic and take it every day for a month or so and then occasionally for maintenance there after, and you might notice better energy levels.

Best of luck getting this sorted out.

Edited by digik, 04 January 2013 - 06:52 AM.

[renfr]

Hey vtrader,

I registered to reply to your post, since I was battling similar brain fog and depression issues over the past year.

One thing no one has asked is whether you drink coffee caffeine on a regular basis or not? Even after putting together a pretty good supplement stack, I was still suffering from daily brain fog, lethargy, and headaches after waking, and I found through some experimentation that the coffee/caffeine addiction/tolerance was the culprit. I found I had to be all in (i.e.: multiple cups a day) or all out with coffee; otherwise, I would suffer daily withdrawal and recovery lag lasting multiple hours from the presumable adrenal fatigue & glutamate excitotoxicity, a longterm effect of caffeine intake. Certainly something to try if you've been a coffee addict.

If you're looking to roundout your supplement stack beyond encompassing your existing supps into a well-rounded multivitamin (which will include things mentioned like iodine and be more economical) along with Omega 3 and antioxidants, you might want to check out a few of these based on my positive experiences to help with motivation:

• A good magnesium suplement as it's an essential precursor to many neurotransmitters, has been implicated in greatly improving dysthymia/depression, and will help calm your agitated states
• Citicoline which will work synergistically with tyrosine to increase dompamine synapses, activate tyrosine hyrdoxylase, and increase Neuron Growth Factor, thus potentially greatly improving your motivation and lifting the fog through neuron repair.
• This is a little off-label since you don't describe depression, but a quality St. John's Wort like Nature's Way Perika could also be useful for its powerful anti-inflammatory properties and novel, semi-selective neurotransmitter uptake inhibition. This could be very activating and uplifting for you.

As for the recent antibiotic regimen, it's possible your gut flora and fauna are imbalanced, preventing your body from absorbing the nutrients it needs. Get yourself a good probiotic and take it every day for a month or so and then occasionally for maintenance there after, and you might notice better energy levels.

Best of luck getting this sorted out.

I second that, coffee really makes me braindead too.
Coffee is an antagonist at GABA, Serotonin, Adenosine and Acetylcholine receptors which are essential for memory.
And it is an agonist at adrenergic receptors which are involved in stress response.
However coffee is good at inhibiting beta amyloid synthesis.

[BLimitless]

A quick update, last night I took a set of antioxide stuff, tumeric, fish oil and grape seed extract, an hour later I felt ill, I felt I was faded, not present at all, as I lay to go to sleep, I felt sick and my body temperature went up, I felt a bit confused, I was sweating a bit.
But then this morning I woke up for the first time in a while at 5am, I woke up ready to go, with a bit of energy, and was not tired enough to fall back to sleep. I had a bowl movement straight away as well, not constipated like it has been recently.
So are this antioxidents working, or could it be something else?
The brain fog is still there, but on waking up it feels a bit more managble. Keep you guys updated.

Yes, they are working. This shows that your organs were slightly clogged or backed up and processing some stuff. Look up a "herxheimer reaction", it is basically what happens when things release waste stuck in the body and the waste has some toxic effects while it is eliminated. But the good thing is that these things will fade and they will not return if you do it correctly.

Again, you must eat a large serving of fruits and vegetables for any useful effects. I am talking 8-15 portions in a day, not "5 a day". The best way to do this is to blend them into a smoothie. If you had actually done this you would have found that the temporary sickness would not have really happened as your body would have been eliminating everything at lightning speed. You would have woken up today perhaps with the brain fog gone altogether like it was never even there.

Brain fog is not something that a small dose of specific supplements will ever fix, when its causes are chronic high doses of environmental poisons.

excuse me, limitless.

N-Acetyl-Cysteine

i was wondering why you recommended this supplement? what does it target? also, if i introduce a diet rich in vegetables but don't remove allergens, will I still see effects?

Your question regarding N-Acetyl-Cysteine has been answered but I will give you a less science-involved analogy. Imagine all these vegetables are a cake. They taste great, yes? Now N-Acetyl-Cysteine is the cherry on top of your cake that turns "it's good" to "WOW this is mindblowing".

If you introduce a diet rich in vegetables but don't remove allergens then yes, you will see effects. Chances are that your allergies could even go away, as sometimes allergenic responses are actually an effect of missing something required to process the allergen, and perchance the fruits & vegetables could supply that factor.

However this is like getting constantly punched in the head by a professional boxer and thinking "well, I won't get this dude to go away, let me just tape some pillows to my head". The reason you are allergic to these foods is that you were never meant to eat them in the first place. Do you go around eating sugar flavoured dog poop? Probably not. But by eating allergens there is not much of a difference. The negative effects of allergens on your life will always outweigh entirely any nutritional value you acquire from them so as to make eating them an absolutely worthless waste of money that will lead to premature aging and chronic dysphoria.

[BLimitless]

A quick update, last night I took a set of antioxide stuff, tumeric, fish oil and grape seed extract, an hour later I felt ill, I felt I was faded, not present at all, as I lay to go to sleep, I felt sick and my body temperature went up, I felt a bit confused, I was sweating a bit.
But then this morning I woke up for the first time in a while at 5am, I woke up ready to go, with a bit of energy, and was not tired enough to fall back to sleep. I had a bowl movement straight away as well, not constipated like it has been recently.
So are this antioxidents working, or could it be something else?
The brain fog is still there, but on waking up it feels a bit more managble. Keep you guys updated.

Yes, they are working. This shows that your organs were slightly clogged or backed up and processing some stuff. Look up a "herxheimer reaction", it is basically what happens when things release waste stuck in the body and the waste has some toxic effects while it is eliminated. But the good thing is that these things will fade and they will not return if you do it correctly.

Again, you must eat a large serving of fruits and vegetables for any useful effects. I am talking 8-15 portions in a day, not "5 a day". Do this for a week or two then tone it down to something more reasonable according to how you feel. The best way to do this is to blend them into a smoothie. Buy one of those superfood green powders, you get 8 servings of nutrients in a single tablespoon. And mix that with 5 portions of fruits and vegetables. Drink it ALL.

If you had actually done this you would have found that the temporary sickness would not have really happened as your body would have been eliminating everything at lightning speed. You would have woken up today perhaps with the brain fog gone altogether like it was never even there.

Brain fog is not something that a small dose of specific supplements will ever fix, when its causes are chronic high doses of environmental poisons.

excuse me, limitless.

N-Acetyl-Cysteine

i was wondering why you recommended this supplement? what does it target? also, if i introduce a diet rich in vegetables but don't remove allergens, will I still see effects?

Your question regarding N-Acetyl-Cysteine has been answered but I will give you a less science-involved analogy. Imagine all these vegetables are a cake. They taste great, yes? Now N-Acetyl-Cysteine is the cherry on top of your cake that turns "it's good" to "WOW this is mindblowing".

If you introduce a diet rich in vegetables but don't remove allergens then yes, you will see effects. Chances are that your allergies could even go away, as sometimes allergenic responses are actually an effect of missing something required to process the allergen, and perchance the fruits & vegetables could supply that factor.

However this is like getting constantly punched in the head by a professional boxer and thinking "well, I won't get this dude to go away, let me just tape some pillows to my head". The reason you are allergic to these foods is that you were never meant to eat them in the first place. Do you go around eating sugar flavoured dog poop? Probably not. But by eating allergens there is not much of a difference. The negative effects of allergens on your life will always outweigh entirely any nutritional value you acquire from them so as to make eating them an absolutely worthless waste of money that will lead to premature aging, deadly diseases, brain degeneration and chronic dysphoria. When you eat allergens you are not eating life. You are eating death. Thus the analogy of poop.



Perhaps I should give you a personal example. My diet used to be 60% milk & grains, very little vegetables and lots of chicken. I was on a 4500kcal bulk diet so keep in mind that's a fair amount of the stuff! I took all these supplements and I felt relatively terrible. It would always be directly after a meal when I felt the worst.

Nothing I threw at myself would do anything useful. I didn't feel much from Piracetam either. Then one day I decided to eliminate milk and grains. And just like that, the cloud vaporised overnight. I then took up a heavy peanut butter habit, again just to get those calories. I was clearer than ever before. But even then, everytime I'd drink my peanut butter concoction and blast my body with sweet 1600 liquid calories in one go, I'd feel intense fog and ADD. However I ate a lot of Omega-3 rich fish to balance this out, so I generally felt good but now I have decided to eliminate PB, for a very good reason. Regardless, now I am extremely sensitive to the effects of nootropics. Noopept and caffeine has a more pronounced effect now than even methamphetamine. Piracetam feels almost like cocaine. My sensory perceptions are vastly amplified all around.

What's more, I am not running around on here saying that I tried X nootropic and it almost killed me or it gave my whole family AIDS and I am now missing all eight of my legs. Why? Because X nootropic has no reason to kill me, nothing bad to react with, it has all its precursor chemicals it needs, all the vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, phytonutrients, flavonoids and other what have yous to function properly in my system and do its job. If you're taking piracetam and subconsciously wanting anti-inflammatory effects (i.e. "how do I remove brain fog?") that is like using a hammer to sand down helium gas. It makes zero sense.



Anyway, back to peanut butter and we have a crucial lesson to learn here. Peanut butter in large amounts is brain fog inducing because of the high dose of omega-6, and also because it contains phytic acid which binds to many minerals in the body. Look it up and be aware - MANY things contain phytic acid - grains, nuts, legumes of all kinds. For animals with two stomachs phytic acid is awesome. But for us, it is a life-destroying poison! So this is what you must keep in mind. There is no point in taking all of these things while eating these poisons because for example, the phytic acid will simply bind to your little supplemental magnesium and bam, you've pissed away all your money AND destroyed your health with your own two hands. Then you go on the internet and say "woe is me"?

Edited by BLimitless, 04 January 2013 - 12:57 PM.

[vtrader]

Thanks guys.
I don't drink coffee, can't stand the stuff.
Quick update, I forgot to mention this morning when I was washing my face I noticed dry blood flaks in my nose, did I get a nose bleed while a sleep?

Anyway, today I started with a bit of energy but by mid morning I was in a anxious state, I'd not even taken the l-tyrosine yet. As the day went on I felt more faitgued and disconnected with the world. I've started taking probio7, grape seed extract and NAC as advised. I hope it gets better soon.
brain for seems less, but can't really guage as I've felt tired for a lot of the day.

Edited by vtrader, 04 January 2013 - 08:15 PM.

[digik]

Quick update, I forgot to mention this morning when I was washing my face I noticed dry blood flaks in my nose, did I get a nose bleed while a sleep?

That can happen if your sinuses dry out, particularly if you had a recent cold or sinus infection and you have a dry interior environnment. Keep some saline spray around to keep your nasal passages hydrated.

Regarding the fatigue and disconnect -- a brisk walk/physical activity, plenty of sunshine right after waking, and eating a low-sugar first meal can also help stave off such dips. A few related questions:

• Do you notice worsening of your symptoms in the winter months?
• Does your alertness improve in the evening?
• How do you sleep?
• Any recent pharmaceuntical or recration drug use?
• When did you initially notice the brain fog occurring? Was it concomitant with any stressful life events or other lifestyle changes?

I believe it's really important to get the basics right in tackling issues like this before branching out to other hypotheses, as it can lead to more worrying and the development of somatoform disorders-- i.e.: a viciuos cycle of worrying leading to greater stress and perception of more illness. If you're getting worried and the malaise is becoming debilitating, some diagnostic blood tests by a physician will be greatly beneficial in identifying the nature of your problem while ruling out any serious disorders.

Edited by digik, 04 January 2013 - 09:24 PM.

[vtrader]

Well digik, long story short, I'm a screwup in my life, and the results of screwing up I am paying for it now. This has set me being depressed from now and then two years ago to more of less most of the day. I can fake a positive outlook at work but it can be easy to become down again, I just have to look at how other peoples lifes are going on. I know everyone has challenges, but for me its like I screwed up everything in my life.
Thats the starting point of the brain fog.

[vtrader]

Wow, woke up this morning with super energy, lets see how long it lasts.
I've also been taking a wheatgrass super food type mix first thing.
Another side effect seems to be I have more itchy skin with red patchs on my hands sometimes.

[BLimitless]

Sounds good! Yeah, this will not end. It is the superfood mix that's causing it. So now I hope you understand how powerful these vegetables & fruits are. You'll see when you skip a few days of it and the brain fog comes back full force.

[Major Legend]

Sorry limitless, can you elaborate on this super vegetable/fruit diet? Is there anything specific to this? I hope you're not one of those "hippie" types who think organic food cures everything. I have been interested in doing a juice fast for a while now. I've been taking NAC and it seems to have no effect, it disappointing when it's supposed to raise NGF. I have had no luck with choline supplementation of any kind either. Thought piracetam's magic has come back somehow (perhaps through the use of many supplements) - its now a 50/50 hit or miss with me (no clue why)

I also take curcumin and artichoke extract which has helped with my inflammation a lot. I am interested in trying grape seed extract. I don't make particular efforts to avoid certain things other than foods I am CERTAIN to be slightly allergic to.

I went through several phases of trial and error, I tried gluten free, refined sugar free, vegan whatever diet you name it. In the end my body simply does better with some kind of protein, and taking processed foods and MSG doesn't seem to affect my health at all. I cut my food intake by a half and thats done wonders, but I eat what I want. I kind of believe or bodies evolved eating basically scavenged shit, I read in a book about longevity that humans actually evolved eating food decayed to a certain point, so fresh food isn't as good for us as we think. (though this is my opinion and not scientific fact, I was at an airport and skimmed a book that was seemingly interesting about human longevity)

I also notice brain fog seems to be a common trait in a stressed or aging adults, starting to appear from mid twenties. Recently I have done a lot of mind programming by reading, and it has reduced my brain fog which has developed in the past 2 years. So I have a theory - that brain fog may be part psychological if you develop it later, I know some people that are really brain fogged up until they drink alchohol, perhaps brain fog is "over stimulation", like with the amount of information input and stresses we are dealing on a day to day basis, we actually have too much stimulation going on (too much glutamate responses). Think the amount of stuff a modern adult is worrying about - the complexity of a modern day job, excess information intake from the internet, all our little worries like bills, big worries like mortgages/investment (hedging against inflation), the brain doesn't forget and if you are attached to stuff it takes a toll.

So theoretically there are 3 ways to combat psychologically induced brain fog this (this is very hypothetical at the moment, there is a lot i'm still figuring out) :

1) stimulate the brain more - by stimulating the brain more, the brain can handle more connections and thoughts at the same time, this is in a way how caffeine or nootropics works, by upregulating the speed of our brain (speeding up) we can match the stresses of all the little tasks that we have endured to take upon. This is why many capital city people like myself striving to over achieve, have taken a liking to stimulation, working out falls under this category, but this stimulation has a side effect. a) its unsustainable - crashes do and will happen b) we fail to cut down on the amount of shit that piles onto our brain's integrative memory/processes day by day.

2) numb the brain, i.e. alchohol by enhancing inhibitions pathways we numb the glutamate/stimulation ones, this makes the noise goes away. We think less, but we think clearer. - the down fall of this is reliance and addiction, but in controlled doses could work in the long term - this is the preferred choice for the normal adult.

3) psychologically reprogram, makes the way we intake data, process ourselves, our self image, the way we deal with the environment - change that and we reduce the stress we give ourselves, the drawback of this is this takes a long time, doesn't work for people too far down the line, and accessing the deep subconscious is still to my experience near impossible, this is the path I have taken now and I have managed to weed out my use of the above two methods nearly, but not completely. I would be lying if I said the above two methods didn't help me resolve a lot of situations and allowed me to use the 3rd.


edit: on the other hand, ever since reprogramming myself I have had amazing moments come back to me, there are times I feel absolutely like I was 18 all over again, the first day of summer and so on, maybe it just shows that so much of it is in bitterness, and the way the world drags us down, but i've notice myself feeling younger, stronger, more self centered, focused this and that, like feeling things for the first time again. I still have a MAJOR issue with energy levels, and I hope that will get solved by an optimisation of supplementation and exercise eventually.

Edited by Major Legend, 06 January 2013 - 01:08 PM.

[vtrader]

Another update, I've been feeling really ill for the last two days, today I had fever like symptoms, one hour I would feel super hot then another hour cold. I've been coughing really badly as well, I also missed a bowl movement last evening. My depressive symptoms have also been worse for the last two days. My joints have also been painfull as well. Been in bed most of the day.
I've stopped all supps and green supps except for vit c,b and probiotic.

[LBGSHI]

Coffee is an antagonist at GABA, Serotonin, Adenosine and Acetylcholine receptors which are essential for memory.

If you're referring to caffeine (which I assume you are), the above statement is incorrect. While caffeine is an adenosine antagonist (and at high doses, a GABA antagonist), it is not a serotonin or acetylcholine antagonist. On the contrary, its antagonism of adenosine increases serotonin and acetylcholine levels by blocking inhibitory effects of adenosine. I'm certainly not saying this is entirely good - regular consumption of large amounts of caffeine is quite bad for you - but it's incorrect to state that caffeine's only 'useful' effect on cognition is its effect on adrenaline (which is also a result of its inhibition of adenosine, incidentally). Wikipedia has a basic explanation of caffeine's mechanism(s) of action:

"Adenosine acts as an inhibitor neurotransmitter that suppresses activity in the central nervous system. Consumption of caffeine antagonizes adenosine and increases activity in neurotransmission including acetylcholine, epinephrine, dopamine, serotonin, glutamate, norepinephrine, cortisol, and in higher doses, endorphins which explains the analgesic effect to some users." - http://en.wikipedia....anism_of_action

Another update, I've been feeling really ill for the last two days, today I had fever like symptoms, one hour I would feel super hot then another hour cold. I've been coughing really badly as well, I also missed a bowl movement last evening. My depressive symptoms have also been worse for the last two days. My joints have also been painfull as well. Been in bed most of the day.
I've stopped all supps and green supps except for vit c,b and probiotic.

Sorry to hear that. Has this improved since your last update? Have you changed your health regimen at all?

[renfr]

Coffee is an antagonist at GABA, Serotonin, Adenosine and Acetylcholine receptors which are essential for memory.

If you're referring to caffeine (which I assume you are), the above statement is incorrect. While caffeine is an adenosine antagonist (and at high doses, a GABA antagonist), it is not a serotonin or acetylcholine antagonist. On the contrary, its antagonism of adenosine increases serotonin and acetylcholine levels by blocking inhibitory effects of adenosine. I'm certainly not saying this is entirely good - regular consumption of large amounts of caffeine is quite bad for you - but it's incorrect to state that caffeine's only 'useful' effect on cognition is its effect on adrenaline (which is also a result of its inhibition of adenosine, incidentally). Wikipedia has a basic explanation of caffeine's mechanism(s) of action:

"Adenosine acts as an inhibitor neurotransmitter that suppresses activity in the central nervous system. Consumption of caffeine antagonizes adenosine and increases activity in neurotransmission including acetylcholine, epinephrine, dopamine, serotonin, glutamate, norepinephrine, cortisol, and in higher doses, endorphins which explains the analgesic effect to some users." - http://en.wikipedia....anism_of_action

Another update, I've been feeling really ill for the last two days, today I had fever like symptoms, one hour I would feel super hot then another hour cold. I've been coughing really badly as well, I also missed a bowl movement last evening. My depressive symptoms have also been worse for the last two days. My joints have also been painfull as well. Been in bed most of the day.
I've stopped all supps and green supps except for vit c,b and probiotic.

Sorry to hear that. Has this improved since your last update? Have you changed your health regimen at all?

There might be an increase in neurotransmission in certain areas, when I was saying it was an antagonist or depleting concentrations or those neurotransmitters I was refering to this study :
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3437321/

The densities of cortical β₁ and cerebellar β₂ adrenergic receptors are reduced by ca. 25%, while the densities of cortical α₁ and α₂ adrenergic receptors are not significantly altered. Densities of striatal D₁and D₂ dopaminergic receptors are unaltered. The densities of cortical 5 HT₁ and 5 HT₂ serotonergic receptors are increased by 26–30%. Densities of cortical muscarinic and nicotinic receptors are increased by 40–50%. The density of cortical benzodiazepine-binding sites associated with GABA_A receptors is increased by 65%, and the affinity appears slightly decreased. The density of cortical MK-801 sites associated with NMDA-glutaminergic receptors appear unaltered.

I guess cortical concentrations of neurotransmitters are the most relevant as to cognition.
While some poisons such as nicotine cause an upregulation of receptors when there is agonism, for most of substances agonism causes downregulation and antagonism/depletion causes upregulation.
Wikipedia does say it increases neurotransmission but I don't see any reference attached to this sentence, it could be an increase in neurotransmission in other parts of the CNS.

Edited by renfr, 18 January 2013 - 04:35 AM.

[LBGSHI]

There might be an increase in neurotransmission in certain areas, when I was saying it was an antagonist or depleting concentrations or those neurotransmitters I was refering to this study :
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3437321/

The densities of cortical β₁ and cerebellar β₂ adrenergic receptors are reduced by ca. 25%, while the densities of cortical α₁ and α₂ adrenergic receptors are not significantly altered. Densities of striatal D₁and D₂ dopaminergic receptors are unaltered. The densities of cortical 5 HT₁ and 5 HT₂ serotonergic receptors are increased by 26–30%. Densities of cortical muscarinic and nicotinic receptors are increased by 40–50%. The density of cortical benzodiazepine-binding sites associated with GABA_A receptors is increased by 65%, and the affinity appears slightly decreased. The density of cortical MK-801 sites associated with NMDA-glutaminergic receptors appear unaltered.

I guess cortical concentrations of neurotransmitters are the most relevant as to cognition.
While some poisons such as nicotine cause an upregulation of receptors when there is agonism, for most of substances agonism causes downregulation and antagonism/depletion causes upregulation.
Wikipedia does say it increases neurotransmission but I don't see any reference attached to this sentence, it could be an increase in neurotransmission in other parts of the CNS.

Ah, now I see what you're getting at. But receptor density is not necessarily indicative of upregulation. It would be a wide leap to simply assume antagonism based on receptor density increase (or agonism based on receptor density decrease).

But, running with your theory, we can find some potential for a mechanism with a similar effect to antagonism. Almost the entirety of caffeine's mechanism of action is via inhibition of adenosine. There are multiple types of adenosine receptors; some of these receptors even inhibit the pathways of other adenosine receptors (adenosine A3 has been implicated in this regard), and not all of them inhibit the release of neurotransmitters - some of them promote the release of neurotransmitters (for example, adenosine A2A receptors alternately promote and inhibit dopamine D2): http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16012194. As noted, this does not always equate to receptor increases or decreases, and it isn't caffeine that's affecting dopamine. Rather, caffeine is inhibiting adenosine from acting as an agonist, resulting in an effect resembling antagonism (or from acting as an antagonist, resulting in an effect resembling agonism). However, it bears repeating that we don't know if caffeine's effect on adenosine receptors has a significant enough effect on this process to cause a decrease in dopamine when adenosine would antagonize dopamine receptors, and in general, caffeine increases dopamine levels in the brain.

The part of this study you're referring to mentions an increase in cortical serotonin receptors. Since dopamine is also affected by adenosine, and dopamine and serotonin levels directly affect one another, this could also be twice indirect: caffeine inhibits adenosine, adenosine is no longer able to modulate dopamine, altered dopamine levels cause altered serotonin levels.

None of this, of course, negates your central point: if you're suffering brain fog, it might be a good idea to cut out caffeine and observe the effects after a week or so.

[vtrader]

Time for another update, as it turns out all of those previous symptoms or partial are a result of panic attacks. The following week after my last update, I went into a full blown panic attack, felt like my world was going to end, could not breath, would get super hot, though I would die if I went to sleep.
Since then I've done some self threapy where you don't suppres the attack but embrace it and let it play out. It looks like it works as I have not have a full attack since then, but still have some of the symptoms such as chest and throat tightness. Scary stuff.

[BLimitless]

Learn how to do deep belly breathing and this problem will go away by itself. You are not breathing correctly; the breath should start from the pelvic floor all the way to the throat/upper nasal passage and back down.

Correct belly breathing removes all physical tensions from the body and makes it supple as a baby. It is also the only way to truly enter the Flow state.

[lunarsolarpower]

Any chance that you have sleep apnea? Assuming your sleep is of good quality (length and proper cycles) I'm curious about your physical activity levels? It seems that if your diet is not lacking anything and you don't feel like you might have a condition that warrants visiting your physician you'd want to start with getting really good amounts of sleep followed by significant amounts (say an hour) of aerobic exercise each morning to see if it helps clear your head. Are you vegetarian by chance?

[Reformed-Redan]

I would point out that there is almost zero evidence for any positive cognitive effects of "brainwave entrainment", and moreover that the very basis of claims made by its proponents runs contrary to scientific knowledge of brain function.

That can be said for most of the hyped posts on here. lol

OP, I'd consider some brain inflammation unless you take benzos or hard some recent trauma.

[vtrader]

Another update,
Still have some of the anxiety symptoms, but I feel like I'm in more control. Sleep is not a major problem, I get an exact 7 and a bit hours of sleep.
Today I started to take ginkgo to help my blood flow in the cold weather, and took some extra zinc 30mg. Have also been taking l-tyosine at 500mg again. I felt a bit anxious today, this moring after an hour taking the zinc I got a strang sensation in my head. My vision seemed to get a bit sharper and more wide eyed, but also felt bit strange, kind of like that detached feeling you get when you feel bit tipsy after a few drinks but not drunk. I think the l-tyrosine is making my anxiety symptoms stay around longer then they have to.

[mytyde]

I had this problem for a very long time where I could not think straight. Ultimately what solved it for me was one or all of three things: eating fermented foods, dry skin brushing, and sleeping in a new room to get away from an old shag rug. I already followed good eating practices.
I conceive that my problem was probably excessive bodily toxicity either induced or perpetuated by a toxic living environment. Fat gain can actually be an adaptive mechanism for diluting bodily toxins, diluting the toxins in fat to separate them. It was for me, and even after I felt cured I still had a relapse of my symptoms as I began to slowly lose weight.
To this day, I am careful to always air out my room as much as possible, avoid rugs in rooms where I sleep, eat fermented foods on a regular basis, dry skin brush regularly, get summer sun, and pay careful attention to eat & drink well. It's not that difficult since I learned to follow my instincts and interpret my feelings of uncomfortability.


This is something of a distilation of some of the most important lessons I've learned:


General Health: The short version
My friend, here are some tips for improving your health. They're all backed by good evidence:
ACHIEVING BETTER HEALTH: A quadrivium of air, diet, lifestyle, and living space safety

• 
  AIR
  
• 
  
• 
  open your windows for circulation
  
• 
  get houseplants
  
• 
  try sleeping in a different location if you sleep poorly
  
• 
  stop using non-natural cleaning chemicals because it all evaporates right back into the air and you breathe it in

[*]
DIET

• 
  
• 
  stop eating processed food & fast food
  
• 
  watch out for various toxins used in processed food preservation & packaging like cans, plastic bottles, and more
  
• 
  eat probiotic foods (fermented foods - vinegar pickles don't count)
  
• 
  try to eat organic produce
  
• 
  consider supplementing CoQ10 for low energy; mitochondrial disorder is practically 100% assured in modern society
  
• 
  drink more water
  
• 
  drink better quality water. Fluoride and VOCs are bad and difficult to deal with locally; bleach is a necessary evil in tap water but it will evaporate from water with air exposure. Bottled water presents the problem of chemical contamination from quickly-degrading plastic

[*]
LIFESTYLE

• 
  
• 
  get any amalgam (mercury) tooth fillings removed by a dentist specialized to do this, who uses protections to block more mercury from being absorbed
  
• 
  try skin brushing
  
• 
  sauna for 30 minutes a day
  
• 
  get appropriate summer sun

[*]
LIVING SPACE - Be wary of the following dangers:

• 
  
• 
  mold
  
• 
  close proximity to heavy electrical wiring (e.g. within 10 feet of fuse box or 20 feet of telephone pole transformer)
  
• 
  rugs in poorly ventilated rooms, exposed furniture foam
  
• 
  toxic building materials your house is probably laced with. The best way to deal with this short of construction is to use the recommendations listed above under "AIR". I would love better solutions if anybody has some to share.

[/list]
...Rationale: unfortunately, the average building's materials often contains VOCs or other substances which create serious health problems for people who work or live in those buildings. Indoor air is usually much more dangerous than outdoor air. The WHO estimates that 30% of buildings in the world are built using materials associated with 'SBS' health problems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sick_building_syndrome). Because building codes in the US are seriously substandard & American buildings are built for planned obsolescence, I would guess the incidence rate in the US is much above that average.
I can share more sources on any of these issues on request...

Edited by mytyde, 26 April 2013 - 02:35 AM.

[Bron]

You may be interested in scientific inquiry, but I doubt it.

If that's the only response you can provide after multiple requests for evidence of your claims, it's time to hand the mic back to the OP, or someone else who can provide good advice. It's simply not right to attempt to influence people to place their effort, time, or money on something you claim has various positive effects, then shrink away at the first request for evidence. It's certainly not in the spirit of these forums.

Go away you twit. I was offering advice based on my own experience. You were just ranting based on your own prejudice. You postings here are worthless, just pure snottiness.

wow. This is the kind of shit posted from, subjectively speaking, the more respected posters here?

He said there isn't any evidence, because there isn't, you proceeded to have a hissy fit because it seems you were offended, instead of posting anything relevant in helping to prove your anecdotal experience, which is what someone who is sane would do.

Reread the conversation again, if you fail to see you were in the wrong here, I suggest seeking therapy.

[blueinfinity]

Regardless of Monroe's background and the now new-age slant of the place after his death--and even before--this stuff does open up creative states of mind that are very hard to achieve without some long study in meditative techniques. And some things that I won't mention because you wouldn't accept them. BTW, I was a senior scientist for a rather conservative research company when I went there, and they covered the cost.

As I mentioned in my last post, I could certainly see binaural beats aiding in meditation, but not because of any "entrainment" benefit; rather, because of a rhythm and repetition that one concentrates on continuously. Whether improved meditation will itself lead to increased cognitive ability is another question, and should be asked in contrast to what one can achieve by other means, more effectively, more efficiently, and more rapidly. And that still doesn't touch on direct cognitive improvement (or elimination of "brain fog") via binaural beats, which is what Joel was alluding to above.

If there are things which you "won't mention" because I "wouldn't accept them", it seems like it would be better not to bring them up indirectly in the first place. In any case, what I'm interested in is cold, hard proof, which is easily obtainable with a double-blind, placebo-controlled, peer-reviewed study, something carried out every day in the practice of real science - something you're surely well-acquainted with as a prior "senior scientist".

Ultimately, I think it's great to reach out into as many possible avenues for mental (especially cognitive) improvement as we can, but before promoting them widely, we should establish that they're indeed effective, and that they're effective in the specific ways we state they are. If binaural beats can induce a relaxed state or reduce stress, they should not be claimed to improve intelligence or boost memory. The fact that so many claims are being made by the proponents of "brainwave entrainment" before and even contrary to proper studies implies that money and fame are the principle driving forces at work, not science.

Let's push the focus back onto real science, with real evidence of real improvement.

you obviously did not give it a proper chance.

and your argument is semantical, there is a very real and noticeable effect. I am the first to be skeptical of placebo like effects, but binaural beats just isnt one, of course there are also lots of uneducated people making less-effective or completely ineffective tracks, but the changes/improvements is definitely not placebo

[CoolStoryBroo]

When i used to smoke weed i would end up falling asleep, but when i woke up from the nap my brain would feel like HD 1080p

But in the long run weed demotivates you as fuck

Edited by CoolStoryBroo, 16 May 2013 - 06:10 PM.

[LBGSHI]

you obviously did not give it a proper chance.

and your argument is semantical, there is a very real and noticeable effect. I am the first to be skeptical of placebo like effects, but binaural beats just isnt one, of course there are also lots of uneducated people making less-effective or completely ineffective tracks, but the changes/improvements is definitely not placebo

"semantical" isn't a word. My argument isn't semantic; it's literal: there isn't sufficient evidence in favor of binaural beats. There's nothing wrong (morally) nor incorrect (logically) about that statement. The fact that you seem to come out in defense of "Turnbuckle" and his furious, exploding head act when I requested evidence in a civil manner, on a forum made for such discussion, seems to indicate that you'd rather silence opposing thought than have an honest discussion (in the same manner "Turnbuckle" himself acted).

In the end, since I and others have already openly discussed both the need for evidence in favor of binaural beats and the disturbing trend of angry closed-mindedness practiced by a few members in this and a handful of other threads, and since any member of reasonable intelligence with an appreciation of open thought and discussion can at a glance comprehend that, "Person A claimed a certain benefit from a certain product or practice, Person B requested evidence, Person A insulted and verbally attacked Person A" is not the kind of discussion to admire or even acknowledge, I think there's nothing more of use to say here. If someone shows up with new evidence supporting binaural beats, great. Or, if people want to drop by and tell us how wonderful life is with binaural beats, great. Or, if people want to tell us how they feel it didn't do a thing, or made them feel lazy and mentally slow, great. Evidence is evidence, and anecdotal reports are anecdotal reports. Until you focus on measurable scientific results, it's not reasonable to claim that you're "the first to be skeptical of placebo-like effects". Plenty of people are "totally sure" that something works, when it does nothing at all. Placebo isn't called a phenomenon for nothing; a large percentage of people will really feel better when they take a pill which does nothing, but which they expect to do something. What's more, by reinforcing the belief in something you're not truthfully positive of the effect of (your personal feelings notwithstanding), you may convince someone with legitimate problems to avoid seeking legitimate treatment, which could end with disastrous results. Though we are not legally responsible for the actions we encourage in others on forums such as these, we are indeed morally responsible.

[blueinfinity]

When i used to smoke weed i would end up falling asleep, but when i woke up from the nap my brain would feel like HD 1080p

But in the long run weed demotivates you as fuck

lol i was writing the below post i forgot to add to this one... I completely. I thought MJ was a miracle, and in some ways was when i was younger, it was. but it can give the illusion that everything is good, makes it very easy to be content in whatever situation you are in. I definitely hit rock bottom, kept digging myself a bigger whole and found out there is another bottom after that bottom haha then i snapped out of it and quickly quit daily use of it

"semantical" isn't a word. My argument isn't semantic; it's literal: there isn't sufficient evidence in favor of binaural beats. There's nothing wrong (morally) nor incorrect (logically) about that statement. The fact that you seem to come out in defense of "Turnbuckle" and his furious, exploding head act when I requested evidence in a civil manner, on a forum made for such discussion, seems to indicate that you'd rather silence opposing thought than have an honest discussion (in the same manner "Turnbuckle" himself acted).

In the end, since I and others have already openly discussed both the need for evidence in favor of binaural beats and the disturbing trend of angry closed-mindedness practiced by a few members in this and a handful of other threads, and since any member of reasonable intelligence with an appreciation of open thought and discussion can at a glance comprehend that, "Person A claimed a certain benefit from a certain product or practice, Person B requested evidence, Person A insulted and verbally attacked Person A" is not the kind of discussion to admire or even acknowledge, I think there's nothing more of use to say here. If someone shows up with new evidence supporting binaural beats, great. Or, if people want to drop by and tell us how wonderful life is with binaural beats, great. Or, if people want to tell us how they feel it didn't do a thing, or made them feel lazy and mentally slow, great. Evidence is evidence, and anecdotal reports are anecdotal reports. Until you focus on measurable scientific results, it's not reasonable to claim that you're "the first to be skeptical of placebo-like effects". Plenty of people are "totally sure" that something works, when it does nothing at all. Placebo isn't called a phenomenon for nothing; a large percentage of people will really feel better when they take a pill which does nothing, but which they expect to do something. What's more, by reinforcing the belief in something you're not truthfully positive of the effect of (your personal feelings notwithstanding), you may convince someone with legitimate problems to avoid seeking legitimate treatment, which could end with disastrous results. Though we are not legally responsible for the actions we encourage in others on forums such as these, we are indeed morally responsible.

lol... you must be right, because you are judging me off one post i made.

really though, i do understand how you could and do so easily marginalize me as someone that is just "silencing the opposition" but i find that notion rather humorous as it was my opinion that was what you were doing and therefore compelled me to step in.

regardless, i have my own experiences, and seems to me to not be placebo but in fact a very real effect, no reason to get defensive about it, and different people respond differently to different stimuli.

science is just in it infants stages of "proving" anything, all the best scientists and researchers in the world will admit to this. there are many things that were once held as fact that are being proven wrong, and many more areas that scientists just cannot understand yet. I guess simply im just saying i wouldnt be so quick to throw something out just because you cannot measure it with the given tools/technology/development currently, available, but you my friend, are certainly entitled to your own opinion! isnt that wonderful?

Edited by blueinfinity, 17 May 2013 - 05:37 AM.

[LBGSHI]

lol... you must be right, because you are judging me off one post i made.

A person is judged by his actions. You came in to this debate on the side of "Turnbuckle", who spoke with anger and immaturity because someone asked him for evidence and didn't blindly agree with him. You might be a wonderful person, but the one thing I know you for so far is siding with the closed-minded, angry guy who snarled at me for asking reasonable questions. How else should I have judged you?

really though, i do understand how you could and do so easily marginalize me as someone that is just "silencing the opposition" but i find that notion rather humorous as it was my opinion that was what you were doing and therefore compelled me to step in.

Wait...are you confusing me with someone else? Where did I ever appear to be silencing any opposition? I was the one speaking of open debate, and "Turnbuckle" was the one who got so furious when I requested evidence, he resorted to insults and ad hominem attacks. Did you honestly feel the need to "step in" and defend the guy who was spewing insults from the guy who was politely asking for information?

regardless, i have my own experiences, and seems to me to not be placebo but in fact a very real effect, no reason to get defensive about it, and different people respond differently to different stimuli.

Right; there's "no reason to get defensive about it". It shouldn't hurt your feelings if someone doesn't believe your "gut instinct" that a certain product or practice "really works", and asks for evidence. It should encourage you to find evidence, so you can strengthen your claim and interest more people, thus spreading what you believe to be a great innovation. If your quest leads you to the conclusion that you were mistaken, that shouldn't hurt your feelings either; it should be taken as an opportunity to spend your time on something more fruitful, having avoided wasting your time and resources.

science is just in it infants stages of "proving" anything, all the best scientists and researchers in the world will admit to this. there are many things that were once held as fact that are being proven wrong, and many more areas that scientists just cannot understand yet. I guess simply im just saying i wouldnt be so quick to throw something out just because you cannot measure it with the given tools/technology/development currently, available, but you my friend, are certainly entitled to your own opinion! isnt that wonderful?

Yes, we are all entitled to our own respective opinions.

There seems to be a theme in this regard: when someone claims that something works, then someone asks for evidence, and the person with the claim doesn't have anything substantial to point to, he falls back on, "Science isn't very good anyway, so that's not a good measure of this thing I'm talking about". While science isn't perfect, it is our greatest tool for this type of inquiry. It should be embraced, not shunned. What's more, the proponents of binaural beats and brainwave entrainment claim these discoveries were made with plenty of science in mind. One can't justly proclaim the greatness of science with one breath and denounce it with the next. The fact is, the theory put forth for brainwave entrainment contradicts the way the brain works. Brainwaves don't make thoughts - thoughts create brainwaves as a byproduct. If binaural beats do indeed have a positive effect as described (which I am doubtful of), it is because of some as-of-yet unknown cause. In any case, all we can really say until we have positive evidence is, "Maybe it works", or, "I feel like it works", or, "I don't think it works."

[blueinfinity]

lol... you must be right, because you are judging me off one post i made.

A person is judged by his actions. You came in to this debate on the side of "Turnbuckle", who spoke with anger and immaturity because someone asked him for evidence and didn't blindly agree with him. You might be a wonderful person, but the one thing I know you for so far is siding with the closed-minded, angry guy who snarled at me for asking reasonable questions. How else should I have judged you?

really though, i do understand how you could and do so easily marginalize me as someone that is just "silencing the opposition" but i find that notion rather humorous as it was my opinion that was what you were doing and therefore compelled me to step in.

Wait...are you confusing me with someone else? Where did I ever appear to be silencing any opposition? I was the one speaking of open debate, and "Turnbuckle" was the one who got so furious when I requested evidence, he resorted to insults and ad hominem attacks. Did you honestly feel the need to "step in" and defend the guy who was spewing insults from the guy who was politely asking for information?

regardless, i have my own experiences, and seems to me to not be placebo but in fact a very real effect, no reason to get defensive about it, and different people respond differently to different stimuli.

Right; there's "no reason to get defensive about it". It shouldn't hurt your feelings if someone doesn't believe your "gut instinct" that a certain product or practice "really works", and asks for evidence. It should encourage you to find evidence, so you can strengthen your claim and interest more people, thus spreading what you believe to be a great innovation. If your quest leads you to the conclusion that you were mistaken, that shouldn't hurt your feelings either; it should be taken as an opportunity to spend your time on something more fruitful, having avoided wasting your time and resources.

science is just in it infants stages of "proving" anything, all the best scientists and researchers in the world will admit to this. there are many things that were once held as fact that are being proven wrong, and many more areas that scientists just cannot understand yet. I guess simply im just saying i wouldnt be so quick to throw something out just because you cannot measure it with the given tools/technology/development currently, available, but you my friend, are certainly entitled to your own opinion! isnt that wonderful?

Yes, we are all entitled to our own respective opinions.

There seems to be a theme in this regard: when someone claims that something works, then someone asks for evidence, and the person with the claim doesn't have anything substantial to point to, he falls back on, "Science isn't very good anyway, so that's not a good measure of this thing I'm talking about". While science isn't perfect, it is our greatest tool for this type of inquiry. It should be embraced, not shunned. What's more, the proponents of binaural beats and brainwave entrainment claim these discoveries were made with plenty of science in mind. One can't justly proclaim the greatness of science with one breath and denounce it with the next. The fact is, the theory put forth for brainwave entrainment contradicts the way the brain works. Brainwaves don't make thoughts - thoughts create brainwaves as a byproduct. If binaural beats do indeed have a positive effect as described (which I am doubtful of), it is because of some as-of-yet unknown cause. In any case, all we can really say until we have positive evidence is, "Maybe it works", or, "I feel like it works", or, "I don't think it works."

ok, go back and read what i wrote, I never came into this discussion on turnbuckle's side, I dont even know him. I've only seen his tag. you are getting overly sensitive and butthurt about this, and defending your stance that turnbuckle may have brought up. I honestly dont even understand what you are getting so argumentative about. Good day, leaving thread for now as its going completely off topic

[LBGSHI]

ok, go back and read what i wrote, I never came into this discussion on turnbuckle's side, I dont even know him. I've only seen his tag. you are getting overly sensitive and butthurt about this, and defending your stance that turnbuckle may have brought up. I honestly dont even understand what you are getting so argumentative about. Good day, leaving thread for now as its going completely off topic

really though, i do understand how you could and do so easily marginalize me as someone that is just "silencing the opposition" but i find that notion rather humorous as it was my opinion that was what you were doing and therefore compelled me to step in.

You can have one or the other, not both. Either you "never came into this discussion on turnbuckle's side", or you "stepped in" to defend the angry hate-spewing guy from the guy who politely asked for evidence.

The fact that you quoted my response to "Turnbuckle" after he childishly berated me for asking for evidence, then attempted to dismiss my statement as "semantical" [sic], indicates to me that you support "Turnbuckle" in his argument against me. You're not actively cooperating with him, but that doesn't change the effect. Saying that I'm "butthurt" doesn't really add much credence to your argument, either (it just makes you sound like a kid). I'm not quiet in my opposition of the stifling of free speech and open inquiry, and I never will be.

I would agree that this discussion has gone off-topic, so I'm more than happy to drop it. However, it's quite good for this community to have this sort of discussion from time to time, to establish the best course of action in such a situation. Freedom of speech, open inquiry, etc, without repercussion of insult or annoyance of answer-dodging, improve this community and keep it relevant.

Edited by LBGSHI, 19 May 2013 - 01:47 AM.