60 replies to this topic

[Logic]

Thx Hav

The full-text on that 2nd paper would really be worth having... Anyone?

[niner]

Unfortunately, I couldn't come up with free full-text on that one. Sounds like it might provide a very useful summary.

Howard, one of your benefits as a member here is the use of the resource sharing forum, where you can post a request for a paper. It's worth a try; sounds like a good paper.

[Logic]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC1393226/
"...Biofilms consist of groups of bacteria attached to surfaces and encased in a hydrated polymeric matrix. Bacteria in biofilms are more resistant to the immune system and to antibiotics than their free-living planktonic counterparts. Thus, biofilm-related infections are persistent and often show recurrent symptoms. The metal chelator EDTA is known to have activity against biofilms of gram-positive bacteria such as Staphylococcus aureus. EDTA can also kill planktonic cells of Proteobacteria like Pseudomonas aeruginosa..."

So another reason to look at chelation is to help with the erradication of persistant bacterial infections.
I assume the correct antibiotic should be taken.

[Logic]

Im heading way off topic with the antibiofilm uses of EDTA, but want to document anything that helps cardiovascular etc. health here.

http://www.longecity...-making-us-ill/

http://patents.justi.../patent/6706290

[BioFreak]

be careful when trying to detox. I have some experience with iodine, and there are at least 4 things one has to consider:
1. Never take it without selenium or you risk (small chance) to get an autoimmune disorder of the thyroid
2. Iodine pushes halogens and heavy metals into the bloodstream, where they will cause side effects or actual poisoning symptoms, depending on their blood levels - so be prepared to salt load
3. Salt loading may also be beneficial because high dose iodine will surpress the thyroid for most people -> salt metabolism is affected
AND salt loading will set the kidney into overdrive mode, excreting toxins faster if they have built up in the blood.
4. Don't do it for extended periods of time, because of the downregulation of the thyroid. (unless you have to)

Other then that... iodine is cool.

Edited by BioFreak, 14 February 2013 - 10:55 PM.

[Kevnzworld]

be careful when trying to detox. I have some experience with iodine, and there are at least 4 things one has to consider:
1. Never take it without selenium or you risk (small chance) to get an autoimmune disorder of the thyroid
2. Iodine pushes halogens and heavy metals into the bloodstream, where they will cause side effects or actual poisoning symptoms, depending on their blood levels - so be prepared to salt load
3. Salt loading may also be beneficial because high dose iodine will surpress the thyroid for most people -> salt metabolism is affected
AND salt loading will set the kidney into overdrive mode, excreting toxins faster if they have built up in the blood.
4. Don't do it for extended periods of time, because of the downregulation of the thyroid. (unless you have to)
Other then that... iodine is cool.

When you say high doses of iodine, what amount are you referring to? I had an iodine deficiency from drinking a lot of iced tea. My TSH rose to 4.5. I've begun taking 2.25 mcg - 4.5 mcg daily for thyroid support.
Quote: " Participants with moderate iodine deficiency (average annual urinary iodine excretion 25-50 microg/24 h) showed clear signs of substrate deficiency for thyroid hormone synthesis while participants with mild iodine deficiency (50-100 microg/24 h) did not."
http://www.eje.org/c...144/5/461.short
Potassium iodide can reduce thyroid volume in those with a deficiency ( goiter ), but not lower thyroid function.
Selenium is also important for thyroid function, but unless you're deficient it shouldn't be necessary to take it with iodine.
http://www.sciencedi...300908499801059

[niner]

I've begun taking 2.25 mcg - 4.5 mcg daily

Are you sure the decimal point is in the right place? I take 225 mcg of iodine daily. One hundred times the amount you're reporting here. The RDA is 150 mcg.

[Kevnzworld]

I've begun taking 2.25 mcg - 4.5 mcg daily

Are you sure the decimal point is in the right place? I take 225 mcg of iodine daily. One hundred times the amount you're reporting here. The RDA is 150 mcg.

I meant 225-450 mcg..., thanks

[BioFreak]

be careful when trying to detox. I have some experience with iodine, and there are at least 4 things one has to consider:
1. Never take it without selenium or you risk (small chance) to get an autoimmune disorder of the thyroid
2. Iodine pushes halogens and heavy metals into the bloodstream, where they will cause side effects or actual poisoning symptoms, depending on their blood levels - so be prepared to salt load
3. Salt loading may also be beneficial because high dose iodine will surpress the thyroid for most people -> salt metabolism is affected
AND salt loading will set the kidney into overdrive mode, excreting toxins faster if they have built up in the blood.
4. Don't do it for extended periods of time, because of the downregulation of the thyroid. (unless you have to)
Other then that... iodine is cool.

When you say high doses of iodine, what amount are you referring to? I had an iodine deficiency from drinking a lot of iced tea. My TSH rose to 4.5. I've begun taking 2.25 mcg - 4.5 mcg daily for thyroid support.
Quote: " Participants with moderate iodine deficiency (average annual urinary iodine excretion 25-50 microg/24 h) showed clear signs of substrate deficiency for thyroid hormone synthesis while participants with mild iodine deficiency (50-100 microg/24 h) did not."
http://www.eje.org/c...144/5/461.short
Potassium iodide can reduce thyroid volume in those with a deficiency ( goiter ), but not lower thyroid function.
Selenium is also important for thyroid function, but unless you're deficient it shouldn't be necessary to take it with iodine.
http://www.sciencedi...300908499801059

Iodine can lead to goiter, in 50% of all cases above 18mg. It is reversible though.
It can use autoimmune disorder of the thyroid, and it is being debated if this is due to an absence of selenium only. I have yet to do my research on this, but I followed that assumption and I got no hashimotos etc. on dosages as high as 150mg.(yes MG, short term - few days)
Also, iodine can induce hyperthyroid function in the short term on higher dosages, esp when someone is deficient in iodine.
It can also induce hyperthyroid, when someone has nodules in the thyroid (however that *should* pass as the thyroid begins to absorb iodine.)



So why supplement with iodine if it is controversial...
cancer prevention support - iodine induces cell death in cancer cells
detoxification of bromide, fluoride, mercury, lead and I think even aluminium
increasing sensitivity of all receptors in the body

You have to take in larger quantities of iodine if you want to detox because iodine needs to be present in a dose that forces heavy metals and halogens out of the cell, I believe that starts with 25mg.
All of this is based on the work of abraham, brownstein et al, and I know at least one person who calls them quack after a relatively quick and not in depth web search. I trust them though.
Actually I wanted to open the high iodine topic for discussion here on longecity, but I have yet to make my review on the role selenium and iodine play in developing thyroid autoimmune disorder.
From the looks of it though, people here are taking way more potentially dangerous stuff.

Basically its like this:
if the selenium theory is right, then iodine dosages below 18mg + selenium will rarely result in goiter which is reversible, so could be used long term (abraham promotes 12,5mg/day).

higher dosages - 25-100mg may be needed to saturate the body, and induce the detoxification process
however, detoxification should not be done forever, only for a limited time. Urine tests may help to see if you are excreting halogens and heavy metals.

the rate of excretion of toxic substances from the cell into the bloodstream is iodine dosage depenent, meaning if you start at 100mg and have a lot of toxins, they will be released into the bloodstream at a rapid speed. Your kidneys will not be able to keep up, resulting in an now active intoxication with those substances(while as long as they were incorporated into the cell, they would cause long term problems, but no acute intoxication problems). So one has to be careful.

higher dosages long term may help with breast cysts or when having cancer, however be prepared for hypothyroid.

The iodine topic is an area of much controversy in the medical community right now. Basically the traditional view is: not higher then 1mg.

The view of abraham is: 12.5mg are better, as long as you supplement with selenium,
and dosages between 25-100mg can be used to saturate the body, detox, and to reverse pre cancer states esp in the breast. It's a complex topic and this is why I think traditional medicine did not get it right in the 60/70ties and abraham might be onto something.

Also if he is right, then it would be very important for longevity - imagine how much toxic elements cells can accumulate in a lifetime, there have to be consequences if they don't get removed every now and then.

[niner]

So why supplement with iodine if it is controversial...
cancer prevention support - iodine induces cell death in cancer cells
detoxification of bromide, fluoride, mercury, lead and I think even aluminium
increasing sensitivity of all receptors in the body

Is there any in vivo evidence for any of this? LOTS of things will kill cancer cells in a test tube without doing much good in the body. Increasing the sensitivity of all receptors in the body sounds both impossible and undesirable. I'm open to looking at the evidence, but I have to say that this at least sounds quackish.

[BioFreak]

There are quite a few studies by guy abraham about iodine, detoxification and I think about breast cysts too.

http://www.optimox.c...esearch_I.shtml
iodine4health.com is a website with a huge archive containing studies about iodine. May be the easiest point to start.
All the studies you want should be in there.
I am sorry but I don't have the time to search for the studies right now. :(

Also, alternative doctors using this approach seem to think that it works out well and there is a iodine group on yahoo where many people who are being treated by brownstein etc come together and discuss their progress (mainly bromide intoxication and breast cysts). I've been watching it for a while and they seem to have good success with it. However, they obviously are very pro-iodine, neglecting negative consequences from high iodine intake such as hypothyroid. Many complain about weight gain, there. But if I had cysts in my breast the last thing I would be worried about would be gaining some weight, as long as they shrink.

You can also google abraham, flechas, and brownstein with iodine... some articles with references will pop up that are from mainstream science.

The downside is that abraham also sells iodoral, a supplement with iodine, so he might or might not be right. Then again, most substances from big pharma are also first researched by them.

And there is the problem that all those studies are with a small sample size and not doubleblind. So its more anectdotal evidence from people being treated with this approach, plus pilot studies by abraham. Iodine research seems to support those effects, though.

There are also a few labs in the us specializing in detecting bromide, fluoride, mercury etc in the urine, as well as doing urine iodine saturation tests... So it would be pretty easy to verify if you excrete more halogens and heavy metals while using iodine.

When I was beginning with iodine, I looked at the studies by abraham, checked mainstream science if it was impossible what he claims... it didnt seem to be the case. I looked at people who have been treated with this regime and they seemed to have good success - mainly the iodine group on yahoo. So I figured what the heck, and tried it myself for detoxification, I was suspecting that I was taking a drug containing bromide when I was a kid and I wanted to see if my health increased. Unfortunately I didn't do any lab tests.

I'm still standing and my thyroid is ok. as a matter of fact I was using iodine to combat symptoms of a flu too with good success, and once I had a appendicitis - and I survived it without operation or antibiotics, just with drinking a lot, not eating, and lots of iodine (lugols solution, a combination of potassium iodine and elemental iodine).
Statistics say that the chance is high that I would get another one within 6 months to a year, but I haven't. Been a few years now. Now if I would have the same success just with lots of drinking and no food, I don't know. But iodine (lugols solution) is a hell of a disinfectant thats a fact.

Also I don't recommend to anyone to do the same when having a appendicitis, it was my personal choice.

When using lugols solution I advice to mix it with vitamin c though, as long as you don't need its disinfectant properties. Because elemental iodine is a strong oxidizing agent, it would be the best to render it harmless before you digest it, instead of using up your bodies antioxidants.

I've planned to open a thread about iodine toxicology open for discussion, to discuss iodine, and later on one about its detoxification effects, and one about cancer... but I haven't had the time yet to prepare material.

The way I see it how it happened: long ago iodine was being used in high dosages. Then some study came out, from the same makers of synthetic t4/t3(thats biased as well...), saying how bad it was in high dosages, and that people should take synthetic thyroid hormones instead - and with some points they were probably right, with others not so much because the circumstances are very complex. So mainstream science overreacted from using high doses of iodine to using too low doses of iodine... and it has not been questioned since. The truth however seems to lie somewhere in between those extremes.

I think the most important point about high iodine dosage is the question if selenium supplementation in combination with iodine will eliminate any risk for thyroid autoimmune disorders triggered by iodine in some individuals without selenium. Everything else (goiter, hyper/hypothyroid) seems reversible, if it develops, for dosages within reason.

I admit I put my trust into this, not checking if it is actually true... but I will before I start iodine again (just finished another cycle of high dose iodine).

Toxicology:
Extremely high dosages in form of lugols solution in a dosage of 187-470mg/kg body weight in 5 individuals resulted in retinal damage. I wonder if this was due to elemental iodines oxidation potential (-> whole body antioxidant depots depleted, retinal damage occurs?). However, that is a HUGE dosage. Far far away from dosages of 12,5(long term)-100mg(for limited amount of time)/day.
goiter and hypothyroid where reported in 50% of cases using 18-1000mg/day. Which is vague given the high spread of dosages.
At 1,5mg, there may be goiter in *some people* what ever that means, according to a review study about iodine toxicology.
The same study promotes bromide as REPLACEMENT for iodine which leaves me nothing but shocked... And I don't have access to the paper(by Wolff) they are referencing to verify what they wrote. :(

Here is the study: http://ebm.rsmjourna...473.long#ref-12

If someone wants to help research the iodine-selenium relationship for thyroid autoimmune disorders, I'd be grateful.

[Kevnzworld]

I don't think there is an issue with iodine supplementation at the levels we are talking about. ( 225-450 mcg ). I have heard of people taking Lugols or ioderal ( 12.5 mg ) with no adverse effect. There is a possibility of toxicity at much higher doses
"Iodine-Induced Hyperthyroidism: Occurrence and Epidemiology"
http://online.lieber...9/thy.1998.8.83
From a letter published in the Townsend Letter ( one of my favorite magazines btw ), by Dr Guy Abraham
Quote: "Based on a review of previous studies, we have calculated the amount of iodine/iodide necessary for sufficiency of the whole human body. (13) This amount was equivalent to 2 drops of Lugol solution, containing 5 mg iodine and 7.5 mg iodide. We tested a solid dosage form containing 2 drops of Lugol per tablet, administered daily for 3 months in 10 healthy women. There was no adverse effects observed on urinalysis, hematology, blood chemistry, thyroid functions and ultrasound of the thyroid. (14)"
"The RDA for iodine is based on the amount of iodine/iodide needed to prevent goiter, cretinism and hypothyroidism. The optimal requirement of the whole human body for iodine has never been studied. Based on a review of published data, we previously proposed that an amount of iodine 100 times the RDA would be required for iodine sufficient of the whole human body"
http://www.wachters.....php?newsID=109

[stephen_b]

Regarding iodine supplementation, this is worth a read: Selenium – The missing link for treating hypothyroidism?

[xEva]

"Iodine-Induced Hyperthyroidism: Occurrence and Epidemiology"
http://online.lieber...9/thy.1998.8.83
From a letter published in the Townsend Letter ( one of my favorite magazines btw ),

I'm surprised anyone would hold this publication in such a high esteem. Years ago I checked the references in one of their very popular Lyme disease articles and found that one was referring to a lay-person website that posted pictures of 'lyme disease pathogens' they found in their stools (! lymephotos) which in fact were half-digested banana and other plant material. Their other reference pointed to a reagent pH range at a bio and chem supplies store. They used this as support of their hypothesis of a bioprocesses on a cellular level in vivo (the pH was about 9!). This is the level of scrutiny and the level of science this publication supports. It is a quacks forum that promotes dubious therapies for desperate patients in Tijuana clinics.

[Kevnzworld]

"Iodine-Induced Hyperthyroidism: Occurrence and Epidemiology"
http://online.lieber...9/thy.1998.8.83
From a letter published in the Townsend Letter ( one of my favorite magazines btw ),

I'm surprised anyone would hold this publication in such a high esteem. Years ago I checked the references in one of their very popular Lyme disease articles and found that one was referring to a lay-person website that posted pictures of 'lyme disease pathogens' they found in their stools (! lymephotos) which in fact were half-digested banana and other plant material. Their other reference pointed to a reagent pH range at a bio and chem supplies store. They used this as support of their hypothesis of a bioprocesses on a cellular level in vivo (the pH was about 9!). This is the level of scrutiny and the level of science this publication supports. It is a quacks forum that promotes dubious therapies for desperate patients in Tijuana clinics.

It is not a peer reviewed journal, it does publish peer reviewed research. Because one article was poorly researched with a dubious citation shouldn't be a reason to discredit the publication and all it's various contributors. The ACAM arena is full of knowledgable trained MD's , PHD's , DO's and other health professionals. It is also inhabited by charlatans, quacks and wackos.
One recent article was written by an MD Leigh Erin Connealy, someone I know who is affiliated with a Tiajuana cancer clinic.
The Townsend Letter has a lot of useful information, and yes,some dubious contributions. It's not JAMA. But then that's why people like it...including me.
Many allopaths believe alternative, complementary and functional medicine is quackery...a growing number don't , including the MD I choose to use.
The letter I cited was written by Guy Abraham MD , a person that I consider knowledgable.

[xEva]

It is not a peer reviewed journal, it does publish peer reviewed research. Because one article was poorly researched with a dubious citation shouldn't be a reason to discredit the publication and all it's various contributors. The ACAM arena is full of knowledgable trained MD's , PHD's , DO's and other health professionals. It is also inhabited by charlatans, quacks and wackos.
One recent article was written by an MD Leigh Erin Connealy, someone I know who is affiliated with a Tiajuana cancer clinic.
The Townsend Letter has a lot of useful information, and yes,some dubious contributions. It's not JAMA. But then that's why people like it...including me.
Many allopaths believe alternative, complementary and functional medicine is quackery...a growing number don't , including the MD I choose to use.
The letter I cited was written by Guy Abraham MD , a person that I consider knowledgable.

-?? Not a peer reviewed but publishes peer reviewed research?

That article I checked years ago was also authored by MDs and PhDs. Those PhDs are dime a dozen from correspondence schools.

What makes this sort of publications useless is that they mix legit info with sheer crap, which leaves 2 possible outcomes: if you know which is which, this makes you more knowledgeable about the subject than the authors, in which case, why read it? Or, if you cannot tell which is which, then you risk having your head polluted with potentially dangerous nonsense, in which case, why read it?

If they can publish that sort of article, they can publish anything. I would not be caught reading it.

[Kevnzworld]

-?? Not a peer reviewed but publishes peer reviewed research?
That article I checked years ago was also authored by MDs and PhDs. Those PhDs are dime a dozen from correspondence schools.
What makes this sort of publications useless is that they mix legit info with sheer crap, which leaves 2 possible outcomes: if you know which is which, this makes you more knowledgeable about the subject than the authors, in which case, why read it? Or, if you cannot tell which is which, then you risk having your head polluted with potentially dangerous nonsense, in which case, why read it?

If they can publish that sort of article, they can publish anything. I would not be caught reading it.

Most people who read these specialized publications have enough knowledge to differentiate between fact and fiction. They are not at risk from " being polluted dangerous nonsense ". They can makeup their own mind. The Townsend Letter isn't published by Hearst or Time, it isn't at the super market checkout stand. It is for the people that want to read cutting edge alternative naturopathic medicine articles. ( note that I said article, NOT study)This publication is for the ACAM, practitioner crowd..not lay people.
I agree that some PHD's can be from correspondence schools ( Gary Null ). MD's and DO's , not so much.
The Lancet published the ground breaking study by Dr Wakefield regarding vaccines and autism. It has later been rebutted, fake evidence .....does that mean that we shouldn't read the Lancet ? ( I disagree with the anti Wakefield crowd, but that's another thread )
I have subscribed to the Townsend Letter for 10 years..it has gone from bimonthly to monthly as their subscriber base has grown..
XEVA , I respect your opinion and agree with you on many things. Feel free to not read the Townsend Letter, you won't hurt my feelings,!

Edited by Kevnzworld, 16 February 2013 - 04:43 AM.

[Logic]

Very intresting info on Iodene. Thx.
Yet more study material. Sigh!

I wonder if there might be a synergy between Iodene and other chelators like EDTA:
It would seem that Iodene flushes 'tox' out of the cells and into the bloodstream where they can relocate and cause trouble?
EDTA and similar tend to react with these 'toxins' in the bloodstream, rendering them harmless and easily excretable?
See where I'm going with this..?

Thx again everyone.

[Logic]

Chelators in the food industry:
http://kb.psu.ac.th/.../291915_ch1.pdf

[tham]

What are your opinions on this:

Why the NIH Trial to Assess Chelation Therapy (TACT) Should Be Abandoned
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2438277/

Good God, who ARE those people? What's their story? Is that a real journal? Now that the trial has shown some moderate efficacy and no one has died, I wonder what they're saying?

I speculate that they WERE saying exactly what they were paid to say.

Kimball Atwood is on the editorial board of this bunch of conspirators, who are out
to vigorously assassinate any form of alternative medicine which is not "science-based",
including homeopathy, with the obvious ulterior motive of protecting their own livelihood.


Tell him to take a drop of Sulfur MMM and see what happens to him.


http://www.scienceba...rated-at-birth/


http://www.scienceba...-future-part-i/

http://www.scienceba...future-part-ii/

http://www.scienceba...uture-part-iii/

http://www.scienceba...future-part-iv/


http://www.scienceba...-future-part-v/



He is in the same clan as Stephen Barrett, the owner of Quackwatch. Barrett is
a psychiatric medical student dropout who has drug companies financing his mission.



" Quackbusters Are Busted "

http://www.gaia-heal...re-busted.shtml



" Barrett was cornered in a Federal case in the State of Oregon not long ago,
and asked about his income. He testified that over the past two years he made
a TOTAL of $54,000.

How then does he afford to carry on fourteen (14) separate legal actions at one time ?

If each legal action cost him $100,000, that would come to 1.4 million dollars ($1,400,000).

How do you squeeze $1.4 million out of a $54,000 total income ? "


" In a Canadian lawsuit, Barrett admitted to the following:

"The sole purpose of the activities of Barrett & Baratz are to discredit and cause damage
and harm to health care practitioners, businesses that make alternative health therapies
or products available, and advocates of non-allopathic therapies and health freedom."

Stephen Barrett testifies for money. He claims he's an "expert" in virtually everything.
Those "expert witness" fees seem to be a significant part of Barrett's existence. "


http://www.quackpotw...ots/barrett.htm

[Logic]

Thx Tham; that was an interesting read.
I think it may be worthy of its own thread, more research, and possibly Longecity's involvement in opposing and exposing these charlatans?

[Logic]

Plant-Derived Agents with Anti-Glycation Activity
http://www.intechope...cation-activity

A number of these agents are said to be more powerfull than aminoguanidine.
Many work by chelating metals.

Interesting read!

[Logic]

This looks like a good summary guide for... conventional AGE blockers?
http://www.drzarkov.com/blog/?p=109

[Logic]

Chelating activity of advanced glycation end-product inhibitors.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/11677237


This invention relates to methods for lowering lipid levels in mammals using compounds that inhibit advanced glycation endproducts (AGEs), LR-9, LR-74 and LR-90. These compounds, which inhibit non-enzymatic protein glycation, also inhibit the formation of advanced lipoxidation endproducts (ALEs) on target proteins by trapping intermediates in glycoxidation and lopoxidation and inhibiting oxidation reactions important in the formation of AGEs and ALEs

LR-9 [4-(2-napthylcarboxamido) phenoxyisobutyric acid]
LR-74 [2-(8-quinolinoxy)propionic acid]
LR-90 [methylene bis(4,4′-(2-chlorophenylureidophenoxyisobutyric acid)]

http://www.google.co...tents/US7320988

[kismet]

It bears repeating:

Where is all the pharma hate coming from? Niner, et tu?

Pharma companies do make money on actually producing and selling chelators! (eg http://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB00746)

Edited by kismet, 03 July 2013 - 09:10 PM.

[Logic]

It bears repeating:

Where is all the pharma hate coming from? Niner, et tu?

Pharma companies do make money on actually producing and selling chelators! (eg http://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB00746)

What!??

[Dreamer]

It bears repeating:

Where is all the pharma hate coming from? Niner, et tu?

Pharma companies do make money on actually producing and selling chelators! (eg http://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB00746)

I believe the pharmaceutical referenced is for chelating iron.

This thread is about chelating with EDTA, something I have had both personal direct and indirect experiences with. So that is what I will address and hope it adds to the discussion.

Several years ago, I noticed some pressure, not pain, in my chest when walking hard and I have always been a fast walker. There was also a feeling/pressure that seemed to radiate down my upper right arm, and I was slightly out of breath. Angina.

Long story short, I embarked on a series of about 30 IV EDTA chelation treatments and achieved a vast improvement and could walk reasonably fast for a couple or more miles without any pressure or discomfort in my chest. So, I know EDTA chelation treatment works.

During the treatment period, we, the naturopath and I, tried to alternate with PlaqueX to peel off layers of fatty deposits like cholesterol since the EDTA basically addresses the calcium and other metals/minerals, but I found the PlaqueX to be a bit uncomfortable for me around the IV site so only had a few sessions with it although I would try it again. I believe that there are other oral supplements that work well to peel the fatty deposits off the blood vessels like lecithin.

It's been a few years since the chelation therapy sessions and I have noticed some pressure in my chest again while walking so I intend to do the IV EDTA chelation again for at least 10 sessions, perhaps 20, and go from there.

I have been researching oral chelation using EDTA and will employ that as well including after the IV sessions.

I had a friend years ago that had angina while walking up and down the dock to and from his boat. I gave him a book on chelation and he found a doc in Washington and had 30 sessions of IV EDTA chelation and felt great, no more angina.

Unfortunately, he did not change his lifestyle or diet and his angina returned. Instead of going back to chelation treatment, he chose the fast fix of angioplasty. They left an IV needle in overnight to use the next day. Something went wrong and it started leaking during the night and he bled out. His wife said he did not want to endure the 3 hours or so for another 20 or 30 IV sessions.

So again, I know IV EDTA chelation works well. It's then a matter of maintaining things. Diet is obviously a major factor. Calcium supplementation is out. Magnesium supplementation is in along with IP6. Oral sublingual EDTA is in, either in powder form or a saturated solution with water sublingually.

As for re-mineralizing, there are beneficial clays and various sea salts. I use Celtic and Himalayan sea salts. We also make and drink a very rich bone broth that is full of various minerals and we add various herbs and spices for added benefits.

I believe that one of the main conditions to control for maximum good health and long life is any form of calcification in the body. There seems to be way too much emphasis on calcium and not enough on magnesium.. Is that a conspiracy of MSM?

Presently, I am researching and ready to try using about 300mg of zinc per day to help clear my blood vessels. Will report my experiences with that later.

As always, looking for input.

[blood]

Presently, I am researching and ready to try using about 300mg of zinc per day to help clear my blood vessels. Will report my experiences with that later.

What is the rationale for taking a mega-dose of zinc?

Have you tried Vitamin K2 for it's possible anti calcification effects?

[Dreamer]

I ran across an abstract that reported on high-dose zinc terminated angina so I did more research and found some more information on it that seemed to make sense. So I tried it. It's not as if it is toxic short term.

Each morning I take a short walk of a bit over a mile. First half is level and down hill, second half is up hill and then levels off a bit. I was experiencing a bit of pressure in my chest when pushing it on the up hill and was a bit out of breath at the end.

So I experimented a bit. Took 120mg zinc with 2000mg taurine and 400mg magnesium chloride dissolved in another glass of water about an hour before my walk. Results have been,no chest pressure at all.

So I will continue and do a bit more research before trying the suggested 2 week therapy.

You can read about it here http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16084666

And here http://george-eby-re...ml/angina1.html

I have also found other similar references to it.

And, yes, I take 500mcg K2-MK7 with 5000iu D3 every morning. I also eat natto 2 or 3 times per week. Good stuff, actually.

Edited by Dreamer, 28 August 2013 - 01:05 AM.

[Logic]

Chelation of intracellular iron with the antifungal agent ciclopirox olamine induces cell death in leukemia and myeloma cells

http://bloodjournal....4/3064.abstract

 
Update:

Oral ciclopirox olamine displays biological activity in a phase I study in patients with advanced hematologic malignancies.

http://www.researchg...ic_malignancies