66 replies to this topic

[ironfistx]

I use Vitamin Shoppe's liquid fish oil. One serving is 1,500mg of fish oil, which is 800mg of EPA, 500mg of DHA, and 200mg of other omega-3s.

I take about 1/2 dose at a time, 2-3 times a day.

After I take each dose I start to get sleepy. This happens whenever I take the doses, and does not happen if I don't take the doses.

I tried Googling and while "fish oil makes me tired" is a search suggestion, all the results I've seen are basically people saying "fish oil shouldn't make you sleepy, that's not a known side-effect. Fish oil should make you feel more alert." But obvously enough people are feeling tired and searching for it and as a result it became a Google search suggestion.

So... am I just weird?

[truboy]

I've read that Fish Oil can cause hypoglecimia(low blood sugar) in some people.

[rwac]

Some people are sensitive to the peroxidation of fish oil. I used to take a 2-3g daily, it used to make me awake/alert. Then I started having a negative reaction to it, some sort of sleepiness etc. It might be connected to a deficiency vitamin E, or perhaps you should just stop taking fish oil.

[ironfistx]

What is peroxidation?

[rwac]

http://en.wikipedia....id_peroxidation

[ironfistx]

So it's bad?

[Kevnzworld]

So it's bad?

Many people attribute some negative studies involving fish oil supplementation and longevity to unmitigated lipid peroxidation, especially in mammals ( rodents ) with poor endogenous antioxidant capacity.
I believe that it's important to supplement a mix of lipid soluble antioxidants if you are taking fish oil supplements, since the oxidize easily.
" Effects of astaxanthin supplementation on lipid peroxidation "
http://www.cyanotech...stin/batl59.pdf
Not all carotenoids are effective
" Apolar carotenoids, such as lycopene and β-carotene, disordered the membrane bilayer and showed a potent pro-oxidant effect (> 85% increase in LOOH levels) while astaxanthin preserved membrane structure and exhibited significant antioxidant activity (40% decrease in LOOH levels). These findings indicate distinct effects of carotenoids on lipid peroxidation due to membrane structure changes. These contrasting effects of carotenoids on lipid peroxidation may explain differences in their biological activity."
http://www.sciencedi...005273606003543

[Lufega]

I know this is an old post but im also having this issue with both fish oil and krill oil. It makes me drowsy and very sleepy so i started using it at night.

Now im wondering if theres something else going on like lipid peroxidation and i should simply stop using it

Im also feel a drop in body temperature and cold hands specially after using krill oil.

Any ideas ?

[rwac]

The drop in temperature sounds like your metabolism is dropping, that might be an anti-thyroid effect. Fish oil can also be immunonosuppressive as well.
My negative reaction to fish oil was what originally got me reading Ray Peat.

Either way, I'd stop the fish oil.

[Lufega]

Some people are sensitive to the peroxidation of fish oil. I used to take a 2-3g daily, it used to make me awake/alert. Then I started having a negative reaction to it, some sort of sleepiness etc. It might be connected to a deficiency vitamin E, or perhaps you should just stop taking fish oil.

The drop in temperature sounds like your metabolism is dropping, that might be an anti-thyroid effect. Fish oil can also be immunonosuppressive as well.
My negative reaction to fish oil was what originally got me reading Ray Peat.

Either way, I'd stop the fish oil.

You might be on to something rwac. if I stop fish oil for a few days of week and then start up again, it's wonderful. Specially when I combine it with uridine. After a couple days, I start getting the sleepy and depressive symptoms. Maybe Vitamin E is getting used up rapidly ? Same effect occurs with one 500 mg capsule of krill oil. Found this:

Z Ernahrungswiss. 1991 Sep;30(3):174-80.
On the problematic nature of vitamin E requirements: net vitamin E.

Abstract

The requirement for vitamin E is closely related to the dietary intake of polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA). By the protective mechanism to prevent PUFA from being peroxidized, vitamin E is metabolically consumed. In addition, PUFA impair the intestinal absorption of vitamin E. Therefore PUFA generate an additional vitamin E requirement on the order of 0.6, 0.9, 1.2, 1.5, and 1.8 mg vitamin E (RRR-alpha-tocopherol-equivalents), respectively, for 1 g of dienoic, trienoic, tetraenoic, pentaenoic, and hexaenoic acid. For this reason, the gross vitamin E content of food containing PUFA does not allow an evaluation of this food as a source of vitamin E. A suitable measure is the net vitamin E content, i.e., gross vitamin E minus the amount needed for PUFA protection. Therefore, some food-stuffs generally considered as vitamin-E sources, as concluded from their gross vitamin E content, cause in reality a vitamin E deficiency if not sufficiently compensated by other vitamin E supplying food constituents. Examples of the net vitamin E content of some fats and oils, fish and nuts are shown. Consequences for food composition data and food labeling and the problem of meeting the vitamin-E requirements are discussed. PMID:
1763554
[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Edited by Lufega, 03 April 2014 - 06:45 PM.

[rwac]

Yes, vitamin E plays a big role. Before I gave up on fish oil, I figured out that choosing the fish oil with vit E in mind helped me stretch the utility of fish oil a bit longer.

It couldn't be too much, or too little. It had to be juuuust right ....
Or maybe it was the particular brand.

Too much vit E is not good if your body is filled with PUFA.

[Dorian Grey]

Yes, vitamin E plays a big role. Before I gave up on fish oil, I figured out that choosing the fish oil with vit E in mind helped me stretch the utility of fish oil a bit longer.

It couldn't be too much, or too little. It had to be juuuust right ....
Or maybe it was the particular brand.

Too much vit E is not good if your body is filled with PUFA.

Curious... What's the problem with high E & PUFAs?

I'm starting to think the popularity of fish oil combined with the demonization of E that's been going on will lead a great many folks into serious trouble.

Edited by synesthesia, 05 April 2014 - 08:28 PM.

[rwac]

Curious... What's the problem with high E & PUFAs?

In general, if you have too much oxidative stress, then anti-oxidants can have pro-oxidant effects.

[kingjoefromflorida]

Curious if you use fish oil at all rwac?

[rwac]

Curious if you use fish oil at all rwac?

Not for a long time.

[kingjoefromflorida]

I was having some bad reactions to fish oil myself. In the beginning seemed to help me focus but After a while it was like my brain was hyper focused if that makes sense? I was using it daily but really think it was making me feel worse... more anxious really.does this sound familiar to you?

[rwac]

I was having some bad reactions to fish oil myself. In the beginning seemed to help me focus but After a while it was like my brain was hyper focused if that makes sense? I was using it daily but really think it was making me feel worse... more anxious really.does this sound familiar to you?

It worked great in the beginning, then it started causing negative effects right after taking it. Very familiar.

[kingjoefromflorida]

Yes from what I have gathered it raises blood sugar apparently.perhaps not such a good thing. I wonder if that
Is the cause of the keyed up feelings I was getting at high doses.

[rwac]

Yes from what I have gathered it raises blood sugar apparently.perhaps not such a good thing. I wonder if that
Is the cause of the keyed up feelings I was getting at high doses.

Fish oil can increase glucocorticoids like cortisol, that's probably responsible for the keyed up feelings. The glucocorticoids in turn can raise blood glucose, especially if your liver glycogen is inadequate.

[kingjoefromflorida]

Rwac,this may sound like a strange question but do you or did you ever get a white coating on your tongue? I understand this to be a symptom of oxidative stress...

[Babychris]

That's funny I have just posted about my bad reaction on the uridine stack.. For sure fish oil is really tricky! It's a really strong supplement no joke there. Good for some people, but I think that sensitive one that are very aware of their body and mental feeling could be notably disoriented, since it increase anxiety and in me particularly it makes me like double vision when I try to focus on something, very unnatural feeling. But much better than piracetam though.....

I think I respond better to herbs like Gotu Kola.

[ironfistx]

I stopped taking fish oil and within a few days my joints stopped hurting and I wasn't so tired.

 

Also, can someone explain perioxidation to me like I'm 5?

[rwac]

I stopped taking fish oil and within a few days my joints stopped hurting and I wasn't so tired.

 

Also, can someone explain perioxidation to me like I'm 5?

 

Lipid peroxidation is the oxidative decay of lipids. Fish oil, especially DHA and EPA, and PUFAs in general are especially vulnerable because they have many double bonds. Basically a radical reacts with a PUFA generating a lipid peroxide and another radical, and this chain reaction causes a lot of damage if there are many PUFAs nearby.

 

http://en.wikipedia....id_peroxidation
 

You can see this same effect in air (slower as it temp is lower than body temp) as vegetable oil, fish oil etc go rancid much quicker than coconut oil, ghee etc.

 

This might be a good read:

http://www.andrewkim...cesses-and.html

Edited by rwac, 17 April 2014 - 07:37 PM.

[Babychris]

No that's pure "forum science" nothing in touch with the reality of our world. You can't explain everything with some theorical and with 3 words "Headache ? It's a choline lack !; You're bad ? What's your diet, go meditate and workout!" sometimes things are harder to explain.

 

When I take fish oil it's like instantly I become to be kind of sick particularly headache and Gastrointestinal weirdness, and strangely enough this kind of pain is the same, in every zone that it's touch me, let me explain, this is the kind of pain like when you have gas coupled with something that burned. That's horrible and sometime it goes in my head, in my gut or even is my leg ? No seriously that is weird, and I have tried every kind of pure fish oil. That is just not for me. 

 

 After that could it due to lipid peroxidation, why not... But it seem for me like a hative explanation

[Lufega]

From that andrewkin link, he says

"there are other factors in our diets that counteract their potentially harmful effects".

What if a negative reaction to fish oil is an indication that your body is not defending itself properly from the PUFAs by being deficient in these factors? I.e. iodine, vit e, selenium consumption is not adequate, etc.

[rwac]

Yes, as you noticed vitamin E is the big one here. Selenium (and copper, manganese, etc) is also needed for some antioxidant enzymes.

 

The bigger question is, where is the evidence that omega-3(or large doses thereof) is essential/useful in the first place.

[Lufega]

Would krill oil be any better? Better absorption, less doses needed...

[Jeoshua]

The claims of Krill Oil being better absorbed are vastly overstated. Krill oil, in addition to mostly the very same fats and oils that Fish Oil contains, contains low levels of Omega 3 Phospholipid complexes. Low levels. Almost all the EPA and DHA in Krill Oil is found in Fatty Acid Esters, just like any other form of processed oil. The only people claiming that it is that much better absorbed are the same ones selling it.

 

Not that it's bad stuff. It's just not magic.

[rwac]

FWIW, I could never tolerate krill oil, perhaps I'm just allergic to the stuff or something.

[Jeoshua]

Well, it is from a shellfish.