16 replies to this topic

[tunt01]

Any thoughts on how to get access to Gardasil for a male in his 30's?


Please note: I'm not really interested in having a long drawn out discussion on the efficacy of such an endeavor.

[YOLF]

I think the reason they abstain from giving it to older people is that they are more likely to have contracted the warts and not be aware of it, so the vaccine fails. I would explain your sexual history to your doc and see what they think.

[Bron]

I think the reason they abstain from giving it to older people is that they are more likely to have contracted the warts and not be aware of it, so the vaccine fails. I would explain your sexual history to your doc and see what they think.

The four strains that Gardasil immunizes against are usually non wart causing but are the main cancer causers.

There are over 100 strains of HPV.

OP I am getting mine in a few weeks. Just ask your general practitioner for it and he/she can place an order.

If your general practitioner doesn't know how to go about doing this or doesn't want to, find a new doctor because the one you go to is a fucking moron.

Not sure if your insurance will pay for it though after age 26 because that is the recommended age limit, whatever the fuck that means.

I think they have just done most of the testing, if not all of it in younger patients.

Edited by Bron, 05 April 2013 - 11:56 PM.

[YOLF]

I guess I need a new doc too.

[niner]

Isn't it a question of efficacy? If they don't recommend it to people over the age of 26, that suggests to me that it would be unlikely to be helpful after that age. Presumably that means you are already likely to be infected. I wonder why they can't test to see if you're seropositive for whatever strains of HPV it targets? If you aren't, then it should be useful.

[YOLF]

Do they have a test or do they wait for the positive cancer test?

[joelcairo]

AFAIK there is no antibody test. They can do a scraping and test skin cells directly for infection, but this is unlikely to be of use with respect to the cancer-causing strains, which do not show visible symptoms.

I've been reading about HPV lately. It is now implicated in a wide range of cancers, including head & neck cancers, melanoma, even lung cancer. Not almost all cases of these, as is the case with ovarian cancer, but a fair proportion. When it comes to Gardasil, people still think of teenage girls/sexually transmitted/ovarian cancer, but the risks go far beyond those parameters. IMO this is going to become a much bigger deal over time, maybe becoming as big a health concern as smoking.

Edited by joelcairo, 06 April 2013 - 10:55 PM.

[YOLF]

Well we should certainly find a way to vaccinate against all of the strains. Even if we can't prove that they don't cause cancer, they are invasive and should be exterminated. I wonder if the DRACO drug has shown any effect on them. I can't wait for human trial data. A drug like that could change our health radically.

[Luminosity]

People have died or become disabled after taking this vaccine. It contains mercury and aluminum, among other things. I would not take it and and I would not give it to my child, if I had one. Everyone who is exposed to HPV doesn't get it and everyone who gets HPV doesn't get cancer. No male ever gets cervical cancer. I think there's better ways to prevent all of this. Nothing is a hundred percent, but some measures are less likely to harm you and also protect against other diseases and pregnancy. Getting to know and trust your partner first can help.

Edited by Luminosity, 18 April 2013 - 01:49 AM.

[YOLF]

Well males don't have the same physiology as women. We may just get cancer on our own physiology. More men die of crotch cancer (for lack of a more informed perspective) than women these days IIRC. Neither perspective has been proven, so act safely and get the vac if your body is able to carry it. Maybe blood tests need to be required prior to getting it.

[joelcairo]

People have died or become disabled after taking this vaccine. It contains mercury and aluminum, among other things. I would not take it and and I would not give it to my child, if I had one. Everyone who is exposed to HPV doesn't get it and everyone who gets HPV doesn't get cancer. No male ever gets cervical cancer. I think there's better ways to prevent all of this. Nothing is a hundred percent, but some measures are less likely to harm you and also protect against other diseases and pregnancy. Getting to know and trust your partner first can help.

So if ANYONE dies after getting this vaccine, then the it should be avoided because not EVERYONE who contracts the virus will die from a related cancer?? Does this make sense from a rational risk-reward point of view? I won't bother asking for a cite; I assume that one or more of the millions who have been vaccinated could have died.

Anyway, males don't get cervical cancer, but one of the other cancers closely associated with HPV is penis cancer. Think about that one.

[nowayout]

I think the reason they abstain from giving it to older people is that they are more likely to have contracted the warts and not be aware of it, so the vaccine fails. I would explain your sexual history to your doc and see what they think.

The four strains that Gardasil immunizes against are usually non wart causing but are the main cancer causers.

Incorrect, It immunizes also against HPV types 6 and 11 as well, which cause about 90% of genital warts. All the more reason for getting it.

I am in my 40s and planning on getting the vaccine. Why should a 20 year old (who may have been around the block more than me) get the vaccine and I should just be happy to get warts or cancer instead? I am in a high risk group.

Edited by viveutvivas, 18 April 2013 - 09:17 AM.

[nowayout]

No male ever gets cervical cancer. I think there's better ways to prevent all of this. Nothing is a hundred percent, but some measures are less likely to harm you and also protect against other diseases and pregnancy. Getting to know and trust your partner first can help.

Males get cancer of the mouth and throat, anal, and penile cancer from it. Oh, and you can get warts (sometimes chronic) in these areas. Try explaining that to a date.

More than half of adult women have HPV, so you may already have come in contact with it if you have dated adult women. Most haven't had a visible outbreak and so don't know they have it, so they can't tell you, and condoms won't prevent you from getting it, so knowing and trusting your partner is going to be as effective for you as kissing a frog my friend.

As naïve as you are, someone should also point out to you that "trusting your partner" is the most effective way of getting infected with all kinds of STDs.

Edited by viveutvivas, 18 April 2013 - 09:39 AM.

[nowayout]

People have died or become disabled after taking this vaccine. It contains mercury and aluminum, among other things.

No, it does not contain mercury. It contains an aluminum compound as an adjuvant which is harmless. Deaths have occurred in about 1 out of every million doses given, but are thought to have been chance events that had nothing to do with the vaccine.

Stop the scare tactics.

Edited by viveutvivas, 18 April 2013 - 09:34 AM.

[YOLF]

Very good point(s) VV!

Edited by cryonicsculture, 18 April 2013 - 01:19 PM.

[Luminosity]

Your source for the ingredients and the deaths is what? How many young girls have been disabled?

More than half of adult women have HPV, so you may already have come in contact with it if you have dated adult women.

--viveutvivas

Most men do, viveutvivas. Not sure this is true. How would anyone know that? If there is a causal relationship between HPV and cervical cancer, how come it is much less prevalent than that?

As naïve as you are, someone should also point out to you that "trusting your partner" is the most effective way ofgetting infected with all kinds of STDs. -- viveutvivas

I'm hardly naive. I was trying to say in polite way that you should all get to know your partners for quite some time before you have sex with them so they will at least tell you their sexual history and you can more or less know if they are reliable. You could also observe if they are sane and stable as there is a correlation between responsible behavior and truthfulness and those qualities. You could both go and be tested and receive each other's test results. You can use condoms. You can seek out a long term monogamous relationship. These things are not foolproof but would help a lot. The kinds of cancer you mention are very rare. The relationship between HPV and even cervical cancer is theoretical; it has not been proven. They might simply be co-occurring, because the person is not as healthy as they could be.

If I believed that this vaccine was safe, had no bad ingredients and was effective, I would say it was a great idea. None of those things seems to be true. It isn't even proven to prevent most of the diseases mentioned here. Check your sources. Who pays their bills?

Edited by Luminosity, 20 April 2013 - 05:48 AM.

[joelcairo]

I'm hardly naive. I was trying to say in polite way that you should all get to know your partners for quite some time before you have sex with them so they will at least tell you their sexual history and you can more or less know if they are reliable. You could also observe if they are sane and stable as there is a correlation between responsible behavior and truthfulness and those qualities. You could both go and be tested and receive each other's test results. You can use condoms. You can seek out a long term monogamous relationship. These things are not foolproof but would help a lot.

This all seems to me like a way of shaming and blaming the victim, as if we don't need to do anything because only sinners will get sick. I'm sorry but this is magical thinking. ANYONE can contract HPV, and most people do sooner or later because there's generally no way for people to know that they have been infected. And ANYONE can get cancer and die as a direct result of an infection that is easily preventable.

The relationship between HPV and even cervical cancer is theoretical; it has not been proven. They might simply be co-occurring, because the person is not as healthy as they could be.

False. Of COURSE it's proven. They can test tumor cells for the presence of the exact oncogenes which have been transfected from the virus DNA. There are two key genes that promote cellular proliferation and predispose cells to becoming cancerous. That's how HPV can be definitively tied to almost all cervical cancers, and a nontrivial number of othe cancers including skin cancer, lung cancer, and esophageal cancer.