16 replies to this topic

[gmgmcg]

hi, I am creating this topic to list experiences about victims of racetam use, I read the forum many times and found some people who have permanent brain fog because of racetam use. I too I am victim of racetams, oxiracetam ruined my life by giving me tinnitus.
oxiracetam was wonder stuff for me, everyday I would take 1-2g of it for mental boost and it was even better with caffeine.
as time passed I used higher dose for more focus, I went up to 8g a day separated in 4 dosage (one morning, one midday, one afternoon, one evening).
and one day when I was in class I had a strong ringing attack, something that happens sometime among normal people and then fade away 1 min after, well it didn't fade, it continued.
I didn't make the link directly, I continued oxiracetam but 1 week after after looking on my condition I read stimulants could increase tinnitus, immediatly I removed oxiracetam then caffeine, the tinnitus subsided A BIT but it remained.
I also went to the doctor who gave me corticoids, no effect sadly.
the 3 next months were an horror, a total living hell for me, I started having panic attacks, fainted in class, and when the tinnitus was sometimes increasing I was shouting of pain.
I started not going to school anymore and lost progressively my almost perfect life, I was once upon a time the guy who was bullied, the guy who was fat without friends but then I changed and all I wished came true, I had a girlfriend, friends, I lost all my weight and I became sociable. these 3 months of hell turned me to who I was before.
I gained 15kg in 3 months, I stopped exercising, I had chronic insomnia, I didn't see my friends and my gf left me.
I was in the worst depression ever and the medication my doctor gave couldn't help.
after the horror passed, I started tolerating the tinnitus more, it became less strong overtime (today it has decreased again but it still remains), I managed to sleep go back to school and socialize a bit more. but still my life is wrecked compared to before.
this was in late february 2012, now almost 1 year after the tinnitus is less strong, I had to abandon alcohol and cafeine because it was making the tinnitus worse.
I didn't touch to any racetam again and never will again. I read such a lot of thread saying racetams was great, it was great for me too but the tinnitus ruined it all.
but today I am still alive and I am rebuilding my life however I don't understand how some people like me (and some others I read on this forum) can have such an adverse reaction from racetam?
I wish to make this topic to gather your adverse events with racetams for more knowledge about risks and how did you solve them. I am still looking for tinnitus treatment because it still bothers me if that can help people that could be great.

[Sholrak]

---Double Post---

Edited by Sholrak, 14 January 2013 - 05:36 AM.

[Sholrak]

First, I hope you feel better at this moment!

Second, 8 g Oxiracetam is pretty high dose!! More if you sustained it for weeks. Racetams are curious about their actions, just let's say go HIGH in dose in one step and then withdraw it for complete... is not a good idea, for what I know. You will be fine, give it time as the effects fade off. There is a curve and passing to 8 g Oxi is a nice deal to be careful with.

Plus, oxiracetam is more potent than Piracetam. Oxi, Ani and Prami, are far stronger than the primitive Piracetam. Only in advice.

Edited by Sholrak, 14 January 2013 - 05:36 AM.

[Sam375]

You are saying you never experienced depression/panic attacks/insomnia before taking oxiracetam ?

[Kyle McGill]

I think you're putting too much weight into the effects Oxi had on your state of being. It sounds to me like the tinnitus was just a trigger to a much deeper psychological issue, that you allowed to manifest by letting the tinnitus eat away at you. I personally, have suffered from varying degrees of tinnitus over the past year, and despite never truly knowing what the actual cause is, I have managed to keep it out of the forefront of my mind, and it hasn't really affected my quality of living to any large degree. I suggest perhaps starting to focus on doing everything that contributed to your 'perfect life', ie. exercise, socialising, anything to help bring you out of your head. You'll soon realize that if you don't spend all your time focusing on the tinnitus, eventually you won't even realize it's there. Overall though, this deep depression you have allowed yourself to fall into, is not as a result of having a ringing in your ears, but more likely a combination of circular thinking, and allowing yourself down that slippery slope leading to feeling terrible.

Edited by Kyle McGill, 14 January 2013 - 06:38 PM.

[Kyle McGill]

P.S> I'm digging the 'mcg' part of your username

[gmgmcg]

First, I hope you feel better at this moment!

Second, 8 g Oxiracetam is pretty high dose!! More if you sustained it for weeks. Racetams are curious about their actions, just let's say go HIGH in dose in one step and then withdraw it for complete... is not a good idea, for what I know. You will be fine, give it time as the effects fade off. There is a curve and passing to 8 g Oxi is a nice deal to be careful with.

Plus, oxiracetam is more potent than Piracetam. Oxi, Ani and Prami, are far stronger than the primitive Piracetam. Only in advice.

Yes it is. I started 1g at first and found it extremely great, oxiracetam was to me inoffensive because nootropics are said to be safe plus it tasted like sugar so it looked pretty safe. I had no withdrawal syndrome, all went fine just some fatigue during 2-3 days. piracetam doesn't work on me and tasted like poison.

You are saying you never experienced depression/panic attacks/insomnia before taking oxiracetam ?

panic attacks and insomnia never before. depression only temporary like during one day and then it fades but not several months in a row
oxiracetam didn't cause chronic insomnia and panic attacks, it's the tinnitus, it was difficult to go asleep and in the night I would wake up in terror because of the tinnitus, never in my life I woke up in the middle of the night unless I drink too much liquid, now even now it still occurs and I use melatonin to go back to sleep

I think you're putting too much weight into the effects Oxi had on your state of being. It sounds to me like the tinnitus was just a trigger to a much deeper psychological issue, that you allowed to manifest by letting the tinnitus eat away at you. I personally, have suffered from varying degrees of tinnitus over the past year, and despite never truly knowing what the actual cause is, I have managed to keep it out of the forefront of my mind, and it hasn't really affected my quality of living to any large degree. I suggest perhaps starting to focus on doing everything that contributed to your 'perfect life', ie. exercise, socialising, anything to help bring you out of your head. You'll soon realize that if you don't spend all your time focusing on the tinnitus, eventually you won't even realize it's there. Overall though, this deep depression you have allowed yourself to fall into, is not as a result of having a ringing in your ears, but more likely a combination of circular thinking, and allowing yourself down that slippery slope leading to feeling terrible.

I'm just saying oxiracetam caused the tinnitus, it's not oxiracetam which directly ruined my life but the tinnitus, how can you say it's a deeper psychological issue? have you ever experienced a constant extremely loud noise ringing in your ears 24 hours on 24 hours 7 days on 7? I can tell you it does ruin your life, plus it gives hyperacusis and every noise is like 10 times louder, you don't want to talk to people, too loud and annoyig and the tinnitus prevented me from even hearing, even now I put my tv almost twice as loud to hear it or else the tinnitus takes over.
yes the tinnitus ate my life entirely, I'm desperatly trying to rebuild my life after that, it's very difficult but I can't be a shame to my family.
maybe your tinnitus was not very loud or you are very positive because in this world where noise is everywhere, everytime I go out in the subway or in the streets and endure the pain, each time I talk to people but have to tell them to repeat again because my tinnitus is too loud, all that is desperating. I am also only 19! someone who already made their life and are +50 can be ok with it, my life is just beginning and it's getting ruined.
it's easy to say you have to do the same but when tinnitus ruins your sleep and annoy people around you, you easily see that friends can't stand you anymore, I still have a very loud tinnitus despite it subsided and the issue of tinnitus is not like something "psychological" it's like a real physical condition like you have a broken leg or something, it impairs my life in so many ways.
one of my relatives has cut all social contact with the world because of tinnitus, she was 34 and was in a very good life condition when the tinnitus struck during a party, she binged on anti anxiety medication went to hospital because of overdose and as tinnitus grew stronger she progressivily lost hearing, all her life ruined in a matter of years, I don't see her anymore but she probably doesn't work and live on state aid.
I am not in this case but it's almost that, maybe 90% people with tinnitus are ok because it only annoys them when sleeping but for 10% it's annoying always, when sleeping, when listening to people, all the day.
and more annoying about all that, my tinnitus is only in one side!
maybe I took too much oxiracetam and it's entirely my fault but you don't expect such life ruining effects from a drug branded as safe!
plus it's not like oxiracetam caused reversible side effects like stomach upset, temporary brain fog, etc
there's no treatment to tinnitus, that is the worst part of the story, in fact I searched everywhere on internet for medications that could cure tinnitus, I tried like +20 of them none worked and a lot of money spent for nothing.

P.S> I'm digging the 'mcg' part of your username

I'm not sure ton understand? mcg means nothing and is completely random

[Kristina Rose Chase]

this is the same troll that has been trolling it up. "I'm not sure ton understand? mcg means nothing and is completely RANDOM" random on account of this being the 10th troll account you made this week. for some reason this person wants google to draw up a bunch of crappy false side effects when ever someone search for nootropic side effects. I request that the mods remove these threads once a troll has been ousted. He/She has an agenda to discredit our whole movement, and it is best to not aid in such.

[Olon]

Until Linopirdine (M-channel blocker) is approved for tinnitus maybe a combination of acetylcholine precursor plus inositol does something for reducing M-type currents.
pubmed 19897014

[gmgmcg]

this is the same troll that has been trolling it up. "I'm not sure ton understand? mcg means nothing and is completely RANDOM" random on account of this being the 10th troll account you made this week. for some reason this person wants google to draw up a bunch of crappy false side effects when ever someone search for nootropic side effects. I request that the mods remove these threads once a troll has been ousted. He/She has an agenda to discredit our whole movement, and it is best to not aid in such.

who the hell are you to say I am a troll? if you want to know what mcg means, it's g mg mcg, gram milligram microgram see I didn't have a lot of inspiration, happy now? besides you have only one post you're a newcomer, so what is your right to decrete I am a troll? I am not the only one to have effects from racetams, I've been on longecity for months and I can remember 4 or 5 people who have permanent effects from racetams and a dozens who have adverse reaction to racetams (depression, brain fog, etc...)
I am looking for help and experiences and this is crazy people come over and say I troll, stop thinking drugs are perfect thing, there are ALWAYS adverse reactions, if you want to hide yourself from reality don't read my thread as simple as that!

Until Linopirdine (M-channel blocker) is approved for tinnitus maybe a combination of acetylcholine precursor plus inositol does something for reducing M-type currents.
pubmed 19897014

thanks! I guess it might work because in my research on tinnitus I have seen that tinnitus can be due to potassium issues, I have to see whether it's TOO MUCH potassium or NOT ENOUGH.
but I guess you can't get this drug from anywhere or can you?

[Olon]

The only freely available potassium channel blocker I know is 4-AP, but it blocks A-type and D-type, probably useless.

[Kristina Rose Chase]

dont try and act like you knew what your name had some meaning... Kyle McGill, on 14 January 2013 - 01:41 PM, said:

P.S> I'm digging the 'mcg' part of your username
"I'm not sure ton understand? mcg means nothing and is completely random"
was that not you who said that mcg means nothing and is completely random? I think about 90% you are a troll.

[renfr]

High doses of oxiracetam also increased my tinnitus. I never took more than 6g but even small doses clearly makes the tinnitus worse. But once it gets out of the system it doesn't stay, I don't think oxiracetam is oxytotoxic.
Could be a potassium issue or too much NMDA agonism or GABA/glutamate imbalance.
There's no universal cure to tinnitus however I can concur with Olon that cholinergics do make my tinnitus much better, in fact cholinergics help with sleep/wake cycle and allows a faster sleep onset, this is because acetylcholine transmission inhibits dopamine transmission and doesn't let you think about your tinnitus when going to bed.
There are drugs in clinical trial such as Neramexane (though proven to be somehow innefective) or AM-101. More and more people are getting tinnitus because we're a lot more exposed to noise and we're getting older so don't worry there is much more research right now.
In the meantime stop focusing on the damn tinnitus and get up yourself, when my tinnitus was extremely high I had indeed some kind of depression during 1-2 weeks then some relapses but I got over it because that's not a life.
If you can't sleep at night, use some white noise or put the TV/radio on to cover the tinnitus, it does help and long-term it helps with habituation (your brain overtime will make abstraction of the tinnitus unless you deliberately focus on it).

[troubleis]

Last weekend going out for at drink, i took 12g Piracetam stepping out the door..
For some reason i left my phone in my car, had to return in a taxi to get it, and then left it in the taxi(in his battery chager) when stepping out of the vehicle.

My genious mind thought of a swift plan to get it back, asking a stranger to call my phone! Taxi driver returned my phone.. Problem solved.
Whether or not this was the Piracetam, i dont know. Later that evening i kept forgetting a girls name. Which is perfectly normal for me when i'm hammered. But still.

On the positive side, i debated a socialist so far down the ground, he wanted to kick my ass due to lack of debating skills from his side. But then again. That's pretty normal for socialists here.

Edited by troubleis, 14 January 2013 - 10:57 PM.

[renfr]

Also in which circumstances did you develop your tinnitus exactly, were you relaxed?
My tinnitus came in the beginning of June 2012, I was in a very deep state of relaxation (strong meditation) but then it became somehow scary and instead of taking caffeine as usual I took 2g of oxiracetam.
I guess that's where the tinnitus began, it was loud on both sides then disappeared on one side and subsided to a thresold level, now it remain constant and has never increased or decreased.
My theory is that oxiracetam overexcited my neurons while in a state of relaxation.
Might be your case too but don't despair and don't let the tinnitus take over you because that's what it wants.
There are so many possibilities to tinnitus :
- muscular tinnitus caused by a change in position of teeth, nose (frequent after a cold/rhinitis) or neck...
- vascular tinnitus caused by abnormal blood circulation in the ear, lack of enough blood supply to the ear or temporary lack of blood supply to the ear that damaged ear cells
- damage to ear cells caused by either ototoxic substances/infections or hearing loud music
- neuronal tinnitus caused by damage (excitototicity) of the auditory cortex :
* either caused by an infection (encephalititis, meningitis, etc...)
* caused by glutamate excitotoxicity/low levels of GABA (common among people who withdraw from benzos)
* caused by lack of serotonin (tramadol withdrawal, MDMA use, ...)
* in general caused by neurotransmitter imbalances
And that's only a general view of tinnitus causes, as you can see it's difficult to find a treatment for so many causes.
As for oxiracetam it could be :
- glutamate excitotoxicity
- NMDA upregulation or NMDA induced toxicity
- serotonin imbalance (through protein kinase C)

Your best bet is to use cholinergics for sleep and neuroplasticity (which on the long term could theorically solve the tinnitus). Also Inositol could be a good choice as to restore serotonin balance.

Edited by renfr, 15 January 2013 - 09:54 AM.

[LBGSHI]

I didn't make the link directly, I continued oxiracetam but 1 week after after looking on my condition I read stimulants could increase tinnitus, immediatly I removed oxiracetam then caffeine, the tinnitus subsided A BIT but it remained.

Have you considered that caffeine caused your tinnitus? Oxiracetam causing tinnitus is not common, whereas caffeine causing or aggravating tinnitus is quite common.

[Major Legend]

I dunno this guy has exactly the same writing style as that guy who started the parathion poisoning thread, and was proven a troll. I won't believe anyone unless they have at least some history on these forums ( though thats begging a troll to basically post and lurk around long enough before posting something like this).

Racetams have been around a long time, and very few if any has ever said anything about long term issues, there is only a diminishing effect or tolerance issue as far as i'm aware, besides why are you linking tinnitus with unrelated problems like brain fog, and most of all why use a name like Racetam Victims? I call bullshit. This is the same guy who made that parathion poisoning thread:

http://www.longecity...-still-ongoing/


edit: and this is an ultimate troll line :

"but you don't expect such life ruining effects from a drug branded as safe!".

"stop thinking drugs are perfect thing, there are ALWAYS adverse reactions, if you want to hide yourself from reality don't read my thread as simple as that!"

So we are jumping to condoning safe drugs are we? Many people use Oxiracetam, but to brand it a "safe drug" like paracetamol is a bit rich, racetams beyond piracetam has always been experimental. You really are just a troll.

Edited by Major Legend, 15 January 2013 - 05:00 PM.