17 replies to this topic

[Hyuckaderp]

The best effect of marijuana is how it improves my hearing, specifically when listening to music. It's not that music is more satisfying, I'm hearing things I never noticed before, like the subtle melodies and textures in the background of My Bloody Valentine's Loveless. Any ideas on how it could be doing this? Is it lowering sympathetic activity, causing increased bloodflow to the eardrums? Could it be inhibiting the effect of norepinephrine in the primary auditory cortex, enaling better processing of background sounds? (I can't post links, it's on the wiki page for a1 receptors under "Neuronal") If it is explained by lowered sympathetic activity, then could the effect can be replicated with alpha or beta blockers? Even if you don't know, I'd be interested if any drugs cause similar improvement to hearing abilities (besides piracetam).

Edited by Hyuckaderp, 14 January 2013 - 07:24 AM.

[Luminosity]

Marijuana doesn't improve your hearing.

Edited by Luminosity, 14 January 2013 - 07:28 AM.

[Hyuckaderp]

But I'm telling you, anecdotally, it improves mine. If you experienced my sober hearing vs hearing while high, it wouldn't even be debatable. Really, I don't see why it's such a far-fetched proposition to say that marijuana could affect the nervous system in a such way that enables more detail-oriented hearing. Even if the hypothesis like norepinephrine in the auditory cortex sounds ridiculous, I'm curious, having an anxiety disorder and signs of sympathetic overactivity. If the body is in fight-or-flight mode, wouldn't it make sense to not only have tunnel vision, but tunnel hearing too?

Edited by Hyuckaderp, 14 January 2013 - 07:48 AM.

[fiftyyy]

I am not sure about hearing, but perception definitely changes. That how got hooked on dubstep. I really dissed that music while sober, but totally loved it when i was intoxicated.

[SuperjackDid_]

piracetam really improve my hearing and i also hooked to dubstep .

[BLimitless]

I agree that it DOES improve hearing. Consider what hearing actually is. It is the process by which waves emanating from a given source reach the ear, then get processed in the brain. Let's not disregard the latter arguably crucial part of this process.

I have yet to know the precise means by which it works. One possible avenue is acetylcholinesterase inhibition. Another could be direct cannabinoid receptor agonism. However it is of course the sum total of the cannabinoid actions at all relevant receptors that causes the subjective hearing enhancement.


What I have noticed: if I take harmala alkaloids then part of the pleasure is there, however it is not very close to marijuana at all. Then if I take cacao with an MAO-B inhibitor (Kava Kava), I experience an intensification of pleasure experienced with music. I am not normally the type of person to jump out of my seat at music and actively press play although I do LOVE music like many. Yet after a day of kava + cacao and then followed by a good dose of b. caapi the next day, I experience a sense of ecstasy just hearing music; the same kind of ecstatic anticipation and consumatory pleasure that you get from eating a really sour chewing gum type sweet; how every second of it is like a hot ember of juicy soury taste which seems to never stop; the sound is ecstatic in its own aural taste. That combination is great for both participatory and anticipatory anhedonia, I can attest to that much.

Cacao contains anandamide and phenethylamine which are two crucial endogenous chemicals of interest here, as they are heavily related to the endocannabinoid & reward pathways. Perhaps picamilon or phenibut may reproduce the phenethylamine aspect of it but as for the endocannabinoid stimulation I know of no natural way other than either cacao or cannabis itself. And I am not quite sure if anandamide in cacao permeates through the blood brain barrier either. Regardless, the subjective enhancement is very real and very much like cannabis.

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Cannabinoids inhibit sensory gating - http://eprints.notti...ipt_revised.pdf

"Direct numerical simulations of this model suggest that the basic mechanism for this effect can be traced to the suppression of inhibition of slow GABA_B synapses. Furthermore, by working with a simpler mathematical firing rate model we are able to show the robustness of this mechanism for the abolition of sensory gating."
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Associate Professor Fredrik Ullen believes his findings could help explain why.
He looked at the brain's dopamine (D2) receptor genes which experts believe govern divergent thought.
He found highly creative people who did well on tests of divergent thought had a lower than expected density of D2 receptors in the thalamus - as do people with schizophrenia.
The thalamus serves as a relay centre, filtering information before it reaches areas of the cortex, which is responsible, amongst other things, for cognition and reasoning.
"Fewer D2 receptors in the thalamus probably means a lower degree of signal filtering, and thus a higher flow of information from the thalamus," said Professor Ullen.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10154775
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Our data indicate that activation of CB1 receptors interferes with neuronal network oscillations and impairs sensory gating function in the limbic circuitry, further supporting the connection between cannabis abuse and increased susceptibility of developing schizophrenia spectrum disorders.
Activation of cannabinoid-1 receptors disrupts sensory gating and neuronal oscillation: relevance to schizophrenia.
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I think we need to get someone to hook themselves up to an EEG headset and smoke like cheech and chong, any takers? Rest assured this is an absolute smorgasbord of different receptors working in synergy.

Edited by BLimitless, 14 January 2013 - 05:51 PM.

[Debaser]

I'm not sure about this. I do enjoy music significantly more with cannabis and notice things in the songs that I didn't before, but I don't know if it is because my hearing is better. It seems more likely that it's my perception that is different and most things are more pleasurable, not just music.

You could be right though, because I have noticed that after very high doses my hearing feels extremely acute. I notice every little sound. I suppose it could just be that I'm more aware of them, since such high doses make me anxious and paranoid. I hear little clicks and wonder what they are, sometimes even feel like I can hear myself digesting. Or maybe become aware of some background noise that you weren't before and then begin to focus on it. Doses that high aren't enjoyable, but I'm still not sure whether my hearing is actually better or just that my perceptions are different.

[Adaptogen]

i don't know about you guys, but not even marijuana makes me enjoy dubstep

[dsohei]

It's the maoi effects in my opinion, like a poster above expounded on

[BLimitless]

i don't know about you guys, but not even marijuana makes me enjoy dubstep

Hehe, try listening to some chillstep, it's what dubstep really should have been and what it was before the great chainsaw massacre of 2011. It's practically a whole another genre by now. Needs a heavy woofer though to be of any genuine value as it's something you touch & feel more than something you hear; pump the volume to 11 or even 12.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RmxLAfKlBs

Edited by BLimitless, 15 January 2013 - 12:14 PM.

[xEva]

I don't think that's hearing per se but ..discernment -? (English is my third language, sorry). I mean the ability to select and focus on a specific melody or instrument, which is often lost when listening to a symphony in 'normal state'...when you can focus on and disticntly hear each and every instrument simultaneously with clarity and precision normally allotted to following just one or two.

I remember, years ago, we used go to a Japanese restaurant on the upper westside, after smoking some mj. We often listened to the happy hum of conversations while waiting for our order. On mj we could hear each and every conversation going on, from the closest table to the farthest corner, and could also follow them all simultaneously. I think this closely relates to the ability to follow various instruments and movements in a symphony, which naturally ups our appreciation of music.

I don't know how it works but as I said, I don't think it's hearing. It has to do with higher functions that process input. It is as if your threshold is lowered.

I experienced similar effect with 'hearing' on low doses of mushrooms. And visually, on low doses of acid. On low doses of acid, on a rainy day, you can see simultaneously all the reflections in the paddles and in the droplets hanging from branches, and you brain is able to assemble all these different reflections at different angles into one coherent picture, giving you more than 360 deg. vision (overhead too). It also works in a room full of shiny surface equipment (monitors and such). Normally, we disregard that kind of input, but sometimes our brains have just enough juice to process it too. The result is that you see everything in a hemisphere that surrounds you.

Edited by xEva, 15 January 2013 - 10:35 PM.

[BLimitless]

If you read the papers I have posted, they show that cannabis inhibits sensory gating. That is to say, it opens up all your filters allowing everything through. The same thing happens in schizophrenics which is what causes the voices to have such a presence.

[xEva]

If you read the papers I have posted, they show that cannabis inhibits sensory gating. That is to say, it opens up all your filters allowing everything through. The same thing happens in schizophrenics which is what causes the voices to have such a presence.

That's an interesting hypothesis and even without reading up on 'sensory gating', it makes sense conceptually. But I was also thinking in terms of the right hemisphere being able to grasp something as a whole as opposed to the detailed linearity of the left hemisphere (this is definitely true when reading either letters or characters). I think that mj relaxes us by slowing down brainwaves while increasing their amplitude, but its main effect may be due to increased cross-talk between the hemispheres (again, probably due to the imposed relaxation). When the two oscillate in phase, you get the aggregate view of the complexity of the right hemisphere merged with the detailed precision of the left. ..and say wow!

[Nujabes]

I can give you a clear answer with published info to back it up.

Let us begin with how Marijuana acts on you, the user. Smoking and or ingesting THC and the additional cannabinoids found within the “bud” portion of a marijuana plant has a profound effect on the Central Nervous System (Brain and Spinal cord including all the nerve plexi within).
How do I know this? Experience as well as this handy primary literature article http://www.nlm.nih.g...icle/001945.htm. Here is a significant snippet… “Marijuana acts on your central nervous system. Low-to-moderate amounts of the drug may cause:

• Increased appetite ("the munchies")
• Feeling of joy (euphoria)
• Relaxed feeling
• Increased sensations of sight, hearing, and taste”

To understand the Central Nervous System you must understand how a nerve functions.

Let us think about nerves (actually they are known as “tracts” in the Central Nervous System) for a second. Tracts transmit electrical signals to different areas of your brain which then gets interpreted as a certain sensation.

Tracts are groups of fibers with an apical (top) portion, a medial (middle) portion, and a terminal end. My piss poor representation of a nerve via text: # ----- <

Where # is apex also known as the dendrite, ----- is the axon, and < is the axon terminal.

The apex has a metaphorical ball that shoots out fibers all over the place to cover a large surface area. This area is known as the dendrite. It is here where an action potential (the conversion of energy into an electrical signal) begins and gets its important message full of vibrant information on the move. Next is the axon. This is what allows for the electrical signal to travel so rapidly. It is covered with a myelin sheath which is essentially acts as a conductor. Finally the terminal end of the axon. This is where the signal needs to be transmitted to another completely separate dendrite. How does it do this? Via little molecules that are released into the area just outside of the axon terminal. These chemicals are known as neurotransmitters. Think of it as the baton in a relay race, it is given from one racer to the next. The baton is the neurotransmitter.

In the Central Nervous System the cranial nerve VIII, also known as the Vestibulocochlear nerve is responsible for hearing and balance. The Vestibulocochlear nerve is actually two separate nerves with the Cochlear being responsible for hearing.

Since the CNS is more sensitive while under the influence of marijuana more action potentials are firing within the neurons and going through the Cochlear nerve. Your brain is interpreting this as an altered state of hearing which you have interpreted as "improved hearing." I hope my explanation has been sufficient and understandable. I didn't read for typos much so excuse that.

Edited by Nujabes, 16 January 2013 - 05:17 AM.

[Luminosity]

Drug users often have distorted thinking around their drug use. Marijuana can cause people to enjoy music more but based on three decades of trying to get potheads to hear and remember what I say to them, it effectively makes your acquisition of information from any source worse. I've spent my life repeating myself to potheads.

Don't be that guy.

Edited by Luminosity, 18 September 2013 - 04:20 AM.

[dannyo]

It probably utilizes your own brain and becomes more efficient cause you sort of just sit there and observe everything you didn't before.

[Shorty]

Drug users often have distorted thinking around their drug use. Marijuana can cause people to enjoy music more but based on three decades of trying to get potheads to hear and remember what I say to them, it effectively makes your acquisition of information from any source worse. I've spent my life repeating myself to potheads.

Don't be that guy.

It seems like you're highly biased against Marijuana because it is classified as an illegal drug and therefore considered 'bad'. It's more serviceable to have a neutral look at it as a substance and then decide what it does and what its benefits and drawbacks are.

Personally I have heard the same thing from a friend of mine. Him being able to discern multiple instruments at once rather than hearing music as one block. It's also interesting to note that a lot of musicians are known to be Marijuana users. I bet if Mozart was alive today he'd be all 420 blaze it faget.

Edited by Shorty, 19 September 2013 - 07:40 PM.

[YOLF]

Drug users often have distorted thinking around their drug use. Marijuana can cause people to enjoy music more but based on three decades of trying to get potheads to hear and remember what I say to them, it effectively makes your acquisition of information from any source worse. I've spent my life repeating myself to potheads.

Don't be that guy.

From what I've read on the subject, Cannabidiol (not THC, though a pharma constituent of pot) is responsible for the hearing improvement and is very real. It should be cautioned however, that the brain can develop dependencies on cannabinoids and Cannabidiol is such a "noid." Therefore, it may be possible to smoke pot and become dependent on it to hear. 

 

If a pothead doesn't hear you, it could be the relative levels of the various cannabinoids, or they might just not give a shit what you're saying cuz they're too high to care or too high to make sense of it. You're probably right that it makes acquisition worse due to comprehension for most, though there are some users who are very smart yet intellectually disabled due to anxiety who might find themselves becoming smarter while on it (oxytocin is much better for this crowd) due to understanding certain emotional concepts they were previously at a loss for.

 

Anyways, maybe someday we'll have a noot/drug that will let us hear as good as cats and improve hearing. IIRC Cannabidiol gives one headaches by itself, and THC makes one spacey.

 

So yeah, be the guy that learns about the effects of the drug and makes a new and better one from what they learn. Side effects should be increased longevity, more youthful health profiles, and an active, cognitively enhanced lifestyle.