151 replies to this topic

[kjleitz]

Hey! Long-time lurker, never had much to contribute but I thought this would interest a lot of you.

For a little background, I'm a pretty avid nootropics user/explorer. I've used piracetam on and off for three years, aniracetam for a year a little while ago, theanine, choline, a few others (you know, the standard shebang). I'm also pretty into self-experimentation with these and other compounds, so sometimes I try to push the limits a bit.

Anyway, I just hand-rolled a cigarette (American Spirit, no filter) and 'laced' it with ~200 mg piracetam. I've done it three times now over the past week, to try and mitigate placebo effect (or other bias) from the first one before posting.

What motivated me to try was that it seemed as though any potential thermal decomposition wouldn't make anything very toxic (I'm a chemist, here), and the boiling point is under the combustion threshold for paper and tobacco (and in the same range as THC), yada yada. So I felt it might be a good experiment, and made more interesting because I couldn't find any reports of people having smoked it before.

I've not often felt much of an effect from piracetam, especially at the standard doses. I have felt an effect (clear mind, attentive, ability to notice quite a bit in my surroundings) albeit at very high doses (>10 g, usually ~20 g) and even then inconsistently.

This, however, was a very, VERY clear effect, distinct from the nicotine effect and a perfectly classic piracetam effect profile. I felt a cleared head and a strong alertness, the feeling that my vision was suddenly picking up quite a bit more than normal, and the desire to analyze anything in my path. This has happened each of the three times I've tried it, and when I say it's distinct, I don't exaggerate.

Anyway, I wasn't expecting much from this, and it was a very surprising result. If there are any fellow self-experimenters out there, I highly recommend checking it out (at your own risk, of course; I have to emphasize this is not a very normal thing to do).

If you have questions, I'll be around to answer them. I may be erratic, though, because I'm going to the lab in a bit to quench a reaction.

[telight]

It was only a matter of time, I suppose. Thank you for lighting up my day today. I was feeling depressed and your thread made me laugh for a good few minutes--not because it was stupid, well, maybe it was a little because of that, but it was mostly it was kinda interesting in a crazy way.

[kjleitz]

It was only a matter of time, I suppose. Thank you for lighting up my day today. I was feeling depressed and your thread made me laugh for a good few minutes--not because it was stupid, well, maybe it was a little because of that, but it was mostly it was kinda interesting in a crazy way.

It's funny you say that, because as I lit up the first one I thought to myself, "Well, this is both crazy and stupid." But hey, someone's gotta pave the way in the name of Mad Science.

I was also going to mention earlier but decided to leave out of my original post: a friend of mine thought it sounded fun so he did the same thing but with pramiracetam. He said he felt it, but I can't speak to his experience; I'm always more inclined to chalk it up to placebo effect or the bias of the user.

I am surprised, though, that I could find nothing in my googlings about people trying this. I would have thought at least one other post would make mention of it, but I guess not.

I am wondering, too, if this is how it's supposed to feel by IV or IM injection, seeing as the point of inhaling a smoked drug is to get it directly into the bloodstream via the lungs. Anyone here have a similar experience by IV/IM?

[kevinseven11]

Vaporize this drug maybe, but smoking this could cause unknown chemical reactions that are dangerous!

[kjleitz]

Vaporize this drug maybe, but smoking this could cause unknown chemical reactions that are dangerous!

Yes, probably a better idea, but I don't really own a vaporizer. That would be neat to try.

Although, seeing as I was smoking it in a cigarette it would be pretty hypocritical for me to complain about inhaling toxic substances on the side

[BLimitless]

Wow, thanks; will have to test this... got a vaporiser right next to me... Will try in the morning.

Can someone first please confirm the likelihood of toxic combustion/sublimation products? A second opinion would be great, don't want to end up like the dude who got hit with parathion or the other dude who caught the prions. Scary stuff, those threads.


The really bizarre thing is that you're right - a quick google shows NOBODY on the web seems to be talking about smoking piracetam. How is this possible when you get all sorts of people smoking teabags and sniffing glue...

"Some msds's list a boiling point, but that's probably in vacuum, as piracetam burns before it boils at atmospheric pressure (I've tested it)."

Edited by BLimitless, 16 January 2013 - 12:47 AM.

[manic_racetam]

The safety of doing this is highly questionable. Your friend tried it with pramiracetam? He's not in the hospital with severe lung irritation? That would be an incredibly stupid way to ingest pramiracetam or any other substance that is such a strong irritant. Other users have reported that pramiracetam takes the skin off of the bottom of the tongue when used sublingually, and if you've ever put it in your mouth you'd realize why smoking it might just be one of the stupidest attempts possible to make yourself smarter.

[manic_racetam]

A piracetam solution of vegetable glycerine and an electronic cigarette would be a much safer way to try this out btw.

[kjleitz]

The safety of doing this is highly questionable. Your friend tried it with pramiracetam? He's not in the hospital with severe lung irritation? That would be an incredibly stupid way to ingest pramiracetam or any other substance that is such a strong irritant. Other users have reported that pramiracetam takes the skin off of the bottom of the tongue when used sublingually, and if you've ever put it in your mouth you'd realize why smoking it might just be one of the stupidest attempts possible to make yourself smarter.

I don't know much about pramiracetam, but he hadn't experienced irritation (just terrible taste) so it didn't seem like that weighed much in his decision. I wouldn't have done it myself, but only because I've never taken it and don't know as much about it as the other racetams.

The safety of doing this (the piracetam, that is) was questionable, yes. I'm a bit liberal with my self-experimentation and I would only advise others to do it if they felt the same. The main reason I felt like this might be reasonable to do (in terms of toxicity) was that the products of piracetam pyrolysis (as far as I can tell as a bachelor's-level chemist) don't seem to be toxic in the levels you would be inhaling them. If anyone has some better information on that, it would be great to discuss it here.

Over the next week, I may partially burn some piracetam and run the residue through my university's GCMS/LCMS to see if I were correct. I'll update when I do!

[lifebuddy]

I had a friend die from snorting 2C-B. Nobody knew that it could kill you at the time.
I applaud your experiment though - I just love reading stories like that! Someone had to do it, and it is very interesting that it gave you that much focus. Kjleitz - I'd love to hear any results you get from your tests.

[kevinseven11]

This could create new compounds never seen... or just waste the piracetam

[The Immortalist]

GENIUS! The Nobel prize for piracetam smoking-the most badass prize of them all should be awarded to this guy.

Edited by The Immortalist, 16 January 2013 - 05:43 AM.

[Adaptogen]

This truly is spectacular research. This will be the new c60.. please keep us updated

[Breezey]

i Am waiting on my toes for BLimitless to report. I relate to "the desire to analyze anything in my path". I had that effect my first time on piracetam more than a week ago. I have been trying to replicate that effect ever since but to no avail.

[BLimitless]

MSDS for piracetam puts boiling point at 250C and decomposition point at 240C.

http://www.lgcstanda...53290-1-1-1.PDF

Important health, safety and environmental information
Boiling temperature / boiling range 250 °C
Melting point / melting range 24 - 26 °C
Flash point / flash point range: 138 °C (c.c.) [vaporisation temperature]
Ignition temperature: 390 °C
Explosion limits: LEL (Lower Explosive Limit): 1,80 Vol-%
UEL (Upper Explosive Limit): 16,60 Vol-%
Vapour pressure: at 20 °C: 0,04 hPa
at 80 °C: 2 hPa
Density: at 20 °C: 1,11 g/ml
pH value: at 20 °C, 100 g/L: 9-11
Solubility in water: at 20 °C: soluble
Distribution coefficient (n-octanol / water): at 25 °C: -0,71 log P(o/w)
Bio-accumulation is not to be expected (log P(o/w) <1).
Viscosity, dynamic: at 30 °C: 10,2 mPa*s
Thermal decomposition: 240 °C



According to that MSDS the combustion products are just NOx, CO and CO2. Not toooo horrible, at least it won't magically turn into arsenic when vaped.


**********UPDATE**********
Flame test shows it vaporises! Whether it decomposes upon inhalation will remain to be seen.

**********UPDATE**********
Vaporises beautifully! Huge plumes of smoke, thick as clouds. One of the best vapours I've experienced, this stuff is an absolute joy to puff. Tastes beautiful, if a bit funky. Cannot comment on psychoactivity. Give me a metric by which I can test this.


Pipe used:

Replace screen with a thick bed of fully burnt steel wool. Hold flame afar and breathe in hard, using convection to vaporise it rather than hitting it directly with the flame.

Dose: bout 350mg

Also got an Iolite which should work given the low flash point.

Flash point of Aniracetam: 196
I'm guessing 196°C, can someone please confirm?


I feel funky now, not sure what to really say. I do feel clearer but it's hard to say whether this is placebo/expectation bias. I think the best way to test this would be to get tipsy, smoke a huge hit and see if it makes you 2x as drunk in the way oral piracetam does. There's no mistaking the knockout effect of piracetam!


Judging by the fact that the flash point aka vaporisation temperature is a good 100*C difference I think it is safe to say one thing: VAPE AWAY :D



***********LAST UPDATE***********
Huge mood boost, cognitive boost. Blasting music and it's resonating through me; pronounced urge to dance. I have been vaping harmalas with it but the piracetam has its own voice, brilliant synergy. Noticed I did not forget a password which sometimes I have difficulty with due to a short term working memory deficit. I don't notice such pronounced effects from oral piracetam at 5g; the method of administration seems to act very differently. Just like how other drugs are more intense when smoked vs oral. I guess consequently it will probably not last as long.

Always loved smoking while studying and it looks like piracetam is the ideal. Piracetam dissolved in WTA e-liquid seems like it would be a brilliant vaporised nootropic.

General observation:

Edited by BLimitless, 16 January 2013 - 02:35 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Over at Erowid, one user claimed that snorting it was far more powerful than oral ingestion. (But only for an hour, and it was hell on his nose.)

[Breezey]

I do not have steel wool. However I do have a couple of bong screens. They'll work. What about residue?

[troubleis]

My god.. I feel like rolling up a spliffy and get "racetam-high", just to try it..

Would it be wise to first "grill" the cigaret as we do here in Europe to get rid of the nicotine when smoking Hashish, mixing it with regular cigarette tobacco?
We do this as we make a "cone" that is folded in the bottom to create a giant filter, only holdig back minor tobacco and hashish lumps from getting in your mouth.

This might be a stupid questions, regarding that almost no one knows what to expect from this!

Edited by troubleis, 16 January 2013 - 03:52 PM.

[BLimitless]

It is not the best idea to roll it in a spliff.

The decomposition temperature of piracetam is 240 Celsius. You would have to make it a slow burner and start the line of piracetam about 1-2 cm in from the ember side and 1cm away from the roach because you will waste it if it is near the roach. That way, the hot convection should hopefully vaporise it long before it hits 240. Make the dust as fine as possible and thoroughly infuse it into whatever herb you use and that should work.

However to vaporise it is so much easier and you are guaranteed to get it in full blast. The piracetam "high" is pretty damn good! Feels like mild ecstasy almost in terms of musical appreciation, although that is probably because I've smoked it with harmalas.



I did develop a mild headache with the potential to become rather nasty. I dosed a gram or two of Alpha-GPC and chugged a litre of water to nip it in the bud; if I did not have this on hand I am sure I would be in some pain right now.

Edited by BLimitless, 16 January 2013 - 04:21 PM.

[Breezey]

No alpha GPC at hand. Just took a 125mg dose and chugged a raw egg. i will take another 125mg. I haven't gotten headaches from piracetam after the first time i took it when it really worked. That was only 600 mg. I've taken a good 2800 mg in half a day with no headache... I guess I will find out soon enough.

No alpha GPC at hand. Just took a 125mg dose and chugged a raw egg. i will take another 125mg. I haven't gotten headaches from piracetam after the first time i took it when it really worked. That was only 600 mg. I've taken a good 2800 mg in half a day with no headache... I guess I will find out soon enough.

[troubleis]

Thx, Blimitless.
Good advice. I'm still contemplating whether or not to do it..

i have no Alpha GPC or Choline at hand(yet) so that kindda turn me off at the moment. Although, i must say, i like experimenting on myself and always keep my mind open for new stuff.

[kjleitz]

*Slow clap*

WOW. This was very thorough. Thank you for trying this. Very cool. Keep us updated.

Mod edit: Modified by user request.

Edited by MrHappy, 20 January 2013 - 06:48 AM.

[polarbears]

Horrible idea, both of those ketones are excellent at forming radicals, if ring breakage occurs there are many active places that will lead to nitrogen dioxide formation.. deadly brown gas-not sure of concentration tho.

This combo can also lead to seizures and headaches, be very careful

[BLimitless]

No brown gas observed. Headache was observed and quickly neutralised using Alpha-GPC, water & a standard concoction of N-Acetyl-Cysteine + N-Acetyl-Tyrosine + Taurine + ALCAR I use daily. Please explain further. At what temperatures would such radical formation/ring breakage have a high enough probability to cause concern? I presume that the N-A-C would neutralise such radicals pretty fast but of course I don't want to be doing anything needlessly creating them in the first place.

Is the flash point safe? Keep in mind the decomposition temperature is 240C on the MSDS.

Edited by BLimitless, 17 January 2013 - 01:45 AM.

[LBGSHI]

don't want to end up like the dude who got hit with parathion or the other dude who caught the prions. Scary stuff, those threads.

The guy who claimed he got parathion was proven to be a fraud in that very same thread - among other things, he provided pics of "his" atropine, which were proven to be edited copies of pics that had been online for years...complete with identical marks on the carpet next to the injector, etc:

His pic: http://www.longecity...post__p__558002

The original: http://www.longecity...post__p__558035

Certainly, getting parathion or any poison in place of a nootropic is a scary thought, but that didn't happen to this guy.

Could you link to the thread concerning prions? I'd like to take a look at it, given the level of troll activity we've seen lately.

Edited by LBGSHI, 17 January 2013 - 04:08 AM.

[dirdir207]

Call me an idiot, and i would normally never do something so cavalier with my health, but for some reason yesterday i just had to try this. I went to the top of a parking garage near my house at about 6 am yesterday morning in the middle of a snow storm, really a beautiful view, and definitely a good environment to test some of the more obvious effects of piracetam such as color saturation and sharpness with all the nearby street lights and the glittering of the snow falling. I whipped out a cigarette removed a small amount of tobacco from the tip and packed in about 200 mg of piracetam, probably the worst way i could have gone about doing it. I light
her up and after about 5 seconds holy shit. Profound clarity, an eerie silence and calmness takes me over. I am in complete and utter awe of the snow flakes, i feel as if i am able to see and process every single snow flake falling in front of me, i can make out their crystalline structure, im lost in the moment. I notice my heart rate is pretty elevated. I finish my cigarette and turn to start walking down the parking garage. Its like the first time i ever took piracetam, times 10, everything is fascinating. Then things got pretty shitty. I started to get a very distinct and powerful naseua, my heartbeat was very fast still, i was breathing very deep and was light headed. I tried to control my heart rate and diminish the light headedness through my breathing, not to much success. Im almost sure im going to throw up, and i feel as if there is a chance i wont make it home and collapse, despite it only being avout three minutes away. Luckily i made it home and sat on my porch, as soon as i sat i started to feel better and after about 5 minutes i returned to baseline. I would not recommend doing this, at least not the way i went about it, very stupid. I apologize for all grammatical typographical and formatting errors as this was written on my phone.

[Breezey]

Woke up and peeled a piracetam pill. Chopped up the powder. Looks like I am doing coke. Load it up on the vape with screens. Not a lot of vapor so I cranked up the heat 210c and took out the screen that was separating white powder from heat source. Thick.



Effects - 400 mg loaded. Its been 30 minutes and I am still vaping. I can definitely feel a rush and clearness and calmness in my head. The effects on my sight is clearly obvious. Music appreciation is as always 'cos I do love music. Tastes good. Heavy vapor. Shit melts. Milked that for so long I am late for class. Pop a 400 mg piracetam.

I've been wanting to check the music faculty at school for a while so I go there instead of class. Play guitar and jammed with a couple of dudes for half an hour. I remember both their names and the new scale on of them taught me. Motor function and concentration above normal. Show up for law class boring as fuck. Whip out my phone and start reading other shit while paying attention in class. I remember starting to count the number of black stones on the wall, counting the number of people in the room. 4 hours later I feel like I feel 1 hour after I ingest 600-1000 mg piracetam orally. No headache.

I am going to vape another 400 mg now.
Vaping piracetam is an extremely awesome experience and can be addictive. In the sense if you are going to take piracetam, you will want to vape it at least once a day. I think this is a major breakthrough for piracetam, longecity, the nootropics community, me and us. I just hope the health effects aren't bad long term. I've seen all of these junkies chasing amphetamines off foil and get fucked up health wise, mental and physical. But the sheer amount of substances these people put in their body and their lungs, make me question what real risks I am taking. Smoking tobacco and weed alone puts 100s of grams of matter in their lung and they are still breathing through their nose. Not very well though.

Edited by Breezey, 17 January 2013 - 07:06 AM.

[Adaptogen]

Yes, this is all very interesting. I am glad people are experimenting with smoking it so I dont have to. I can't imagine how there would not be negative health effects from this.

What about noopept, think we could smoke that? I think I will start sprinkling nootropics on weed and sell it for $40 a gram, brain drain strain

[Breezey]

I notice that the amount of vapor exhaled is largely dependent and very sensitive on how long I hold it in. 5 seconds and almost no vapor. Long inhales also result in little vapor.

http://www.bluelight...-pills-off-foil

The thread above mirrors our implications pretty well.

[troubleis]

@breezey

How do you peel your pills most effectively?

@breezey

How do you peel your pills most effectively?