19 replies to this topic

[Agomelatinehope]

Hi, I have no problems getting to sleep (I fall sleep quite fast actually) but every single day I wake up at 4-5am without aparent reason and it ruins my day. The remaining time that I spend in bed is of not good sleep quality (very light and with interruptions),

I've read that it's called "terminal insomnia" and I tried almost everything out there but to no avail

I'd like to know if someof you has this specific kind of insomnia and if there is anyway to treat it

I'm open to every suggestion or advice

Thank you very much!

[tritium]

If you happen to be taking a high dosage of melatonin before bed, I heard this can cause early awakenings.

[Agomelatinehope]

If you happen to be taking a high dosage of melatonin before bed, I heard this can cause early awakenings.

I'm taking a formula for tinnitus before bed that contains the following ingredients:

1.90mg Melatonin, 236mg Magnesium, 54mg Ginkgo Biloba

So yes, it may be the reason. As soon as I finish my treatment for tinnitus I'll try with a lower dose of melatonin

Thank you

Edited by Agomelatinehope, 25 January 2013 - 12:57 PM.

[Heh]

Ginkgo Biloba is a stimulant and that could be keeping you awake. Would it be possible to take this formula during the day, or does that cause you to fall asleep?

Have you tried brainwave entrainment? You can download Neuro-Programmer 3 and listen to one of the sleep inducing audio tracks.

Also, there are are many supplements like Resveratrol (in the morning), Ashwagandha, and Niacin that help improve the quality of sleep. Maybe you can try adding some of them to your regimen.

[renfr]

Indeed, take the ginkgo in the morning as it reduces GABA and therefore reduces sleep and deep sleep stages.

[Agomelatinehope]

Ginkgo Biloba is a stimulant and that could be keeping you awake. Would it be possible to take this formula during the day, or does that cause you to fall asleep?

Have you tried brainwave entrainment? You can download Neuro-Programmer 3 and listen to one of the sleep inducing audio tracks.

Also, there are are many supplements like Resveratrol (in the morning), Ashwagandha, and Niacin that help improve the quality of sleep. Maybe you can try adding some of them to your regimen.

This formula is meant to be taken at bedtime since it has melatonin and it really makes me sleepy. I'll try buying the components separately. I'll try that program too

Indeed, take the ginkgo in the morning as it reduces GABA and therefore reduces sleep and deep sleep stages.

I'll buy the ingredients separately and I'll try.


Thank you for your replies

[NeuroNootropic]

Just for your information Melatonin reduces LH release so take it with caution:http://www.biomed.cas.cz/physiolres/pdf/47/47_329.pdf

Also, there is such a thing as terminal insomnia. It's quite interesting actually: http://en.wikipedia....milial_insomnia

[Agomelatinehope]

Just for your information Melatonin reduces LH release so take it with caution:http://www.biomed.cas.cz/physiolres/pdf/47/47_329.pdf

Also, there is such a thing as terminal insomnia. It's quite interesting actually: http://en.wikipedia....milial_insomnia

That kind of insomnia is different from mine (fortunately).

I'm taking 10mg Valium each night + Tinnitus formula (1.90mg Melatonin, 236mg Magnesium, 54mg Ginkgo Biloba)

Next night I'll stop taking the Tinnitus formula and see what happens.

Thank you again

[renfr]

Just for your information Melatonin reduces LH release so take it with caution:http://www.biomed.cas.cz/physiolres/pdf/47/47_329.pdf

Also, there is such a thing as terminal insomnia. It's quite interesting actually: http://en.wikipedia....milial_insomnia

That kind of insomnia is different from mine (fortunately).

I'm taking 10mg Valium each night + Tinnitus formula (1.90mg Melatonin, 236mg Magnesium, 54mg Ginkgo Biloba)

Next night I'll stop taking the Tinnitus formula and see what happens.

Thank you again

If you're taking valium then it could also be valium tolerance, how long have you been using it?

[Agomelatinehope]

Just for your information Melatonin reduces LH release so take it with caution:http://www.biomed.cas.cz/physiolres/pdf/47/47_329.pdf

Also, there is such a thing as terminal insomnia. It's quite interesting actually: http://en.wikipedia....milial_insomnia

That kind of insomnia is different from mine (fortunately).

I'm taking 10mg Valium each night + Tinnitus formula (1.90mg Melatonin, 236mg Magnesium, 54mg Ginkgo Biloba)

Next night I'll stop taking the Tinnitus formula and see what happens.

Thank you again

If you're taking valium then it could also be valium tolerance, how long have you been using it?

I've been taking valium for 2 weeks. (I switched from Ativan to Valium).But I had been taking Ativan 1mg for 6 months. The reason I swicthed was because Valium has a longer life and can be withdrawn a bit easier (or at least that's what I read). The other reason I switched was because I read that Ativan could be the cause of my tinnitus

Thank you

Edited by Agomelatinehope, 26 January 2013 - 12:18 PM.

[renfr]

Just for your information Melatonin reduces LH release so take it with caution:http://www.biomed.cas.cz/physiolres/pdf/47/47_329.pdf

Also, there is such a thing as terminal insomnia. It's quite interesting actually: http://en.wikipedia....milial_insomnia

That kind of insomnia is different from mine (fortunately).

I'm taking 10mg Valium each night + Tinnitus formula (1.90mg Melatonin, 236mg Magnesium, 54mg Ginkgo Biloba)

Next night I'll stop taking the Tinnitus formula and see what happens.

Thank you again

If you're taking valium then it could also be valium tolerance, how long have you been using it?

I've been taking valium for 2 weeks. (I switched from Ativan to Valium).But I had been taking Ativan 1mg for 6 months. The reason I swicthed was because Valium has a longer life and can be withdrawn a bit easier (or at least that's what I read). The other reason I switched was because I read that Ativan could be the cause of my tinnitus

Thank you

2 weeks is already too much, benzos are supposed to be used punctually in cases of temporary extreme anxiety/insomnia and not as a permanent sleep aid.
If I were, I would withdraw as early as you can before it gets worse.
Besides since you're in Spain you can buy off prescription Lioresal (baclofen), it's less dangerous than benzos and there is less addiction.
If you're looking for non-addictive sleep aids :
- melatonin
- magnesium
- glycine
- taurine (though long term it might cause withdrawals)
- vitamin B6
- cholinergics (not to be taken before sleep)
- brainwave synchronization
- last but not least, eating carbs 1h before sleep

to me cholinergics are my favorite, I can sleep very easily and onset comes within minutes.

[Agomelatinehope]

Just for your information Melatonin reduces LH release so take it with caution:http://www.biomed.cas.cz/physiolres/pdf/47/47_329.pdf

Also, there is such a thing as terminal insomnia. It's quite interesting actually: http://en.wikipedia....milial_insomnia

That kind of insomnia is different from mine (fortunately).

I'm taking 10mg Valium each night + Tinnitus formula (1.90mg Melatonin, 236mg Magnesium, 54mg Ginkgo Biloba)

Next night I'll stop taking the Tinnitus formula and see what happens.

Thank you again

If you're taking valium then it could also be valium tolerance, how long have you been using it?

I've been taking valium for 2 weeks. (I switched from Ativan to Valium).But I had been taking Ativan 1mg for 6 months. The reason I swicthed was because Valium has a longer life and can be withdrawn a bit easier (or at least that's what I read). The other reason I switched was because I read that Ativan could be the cause of my tinnitus

Thank you

2 weeks is already too much, benzos are supposed to be used punctually in cases of temporary extreme anxiety/insomnia and not as a permanent sleep aid.
If I were, I would withdraw as early as you can before it gets worse.
Besides since you're in Spain you can buy off prescription Lioresal (baclofen), it's less dangerous than benzos and there is less addiction.
If you're looking for non-addictive sleep aids :
- melatonin
- magnesium
- glycine
- taurine (though long term it might cause withdrawals)
- vitamin B6
- cholinergics (not to be taken before sleep)
- brainwave synchronization
- last but not least, eating carbs 1h before sleep

to me cholinergics are my favorite, I can sleep very easily and onset comes within minutes.

I'm on benzos since june 2012 (Lorazepam 1mg) and I recently switched to Valium 10mg

I'm aware of how damaging benzos are so I'm starting to withdraw by reducing 2.5mg each week.

Anyways, last night I tried just melatonin alone (1.5mg) and my early awakening improved since I woke up at 7am (I fall asleep at 2) so is not bad at all. The hangover feeling is a bit uncomfortable and the vivid dreams too. I'll try with a lower dose.

I used the Neuro Programmer and wow, that worked unexpectedly well to induce sleep.

Next week I'm going to be experimenting with the alternatives you mentioned. By the way, what do you mean by cholinergics?

Thank you so much for your interest

PD: I'm already taking Magnesium at mealtime (along with calcium and vit. D in a Jarrow's formula) and that does wonders for my anxiety

Edited by Agomelatinehope, 27 January 2013 - 09:37 AM.

[renfr]

Just for your information Melatonin reduces LH release so take it with caution:http://www.biomed.cas.cz/physiolres/pdf/47/47_329.pdf

Also, there is such a thing as terminal insomnia. It's quite interesting actually: http://en.wikipedia....milial_insomnia

That kind of insomnia is different from mine (fortunately).

I'm taking 10mg Valium each night + Tinnitus formula (1.90mg Melatonin, 236mg Magnesium, 54mg Ginkgo Biloba)

Next night I'll stop taking the Tinnitus formula and see what happens.

Thank you again

If you're taking valium then it could also be valium tolerance, how long have you been using it?

I've been taking valium for 2 weeks. (I switched from Ativan to Valium).But I had been taking Ativan 1mg for 6 months. The reason I swicthed was because Valium has a longer life and can be withdrawn a bit easier (or at least that's what I read). The other reason I switched was because I read that Ativan could be the cause of my tinnitus

Thank you

2 weeks is already too much, benzos are supposed to be used punctually in cases of temporary extreme anxiety/insomnia and not as a permanent sleep aid.
If I were, I would withdraw as early as you can before it gets worse.
Besides since you're in Spain you can buy off prescription Lioresal (baclofen), it's less dangerous than benzos and there is less addiction.
If you're looking for non-addictive sleep aids :
- melatonin
- magnesium
- glycine
- taurine (though long term it might cause withdrawals)
- vitamin B6
- cholinergics (not to be taken before sleep)
- brainwave synchronization
- last but not least, eating carbs 1h before sleep

to me cholinergics are my favorite, I can sleep very easily and onset comes within minutes.

I'm on benzos since june 2012 (Lorazepam 1mg) and I recently switched to Valium 10mg

I'm aware of how damaging benzos are so I'm starting to withdraw by reducing 2.5mg each week.

Anyways, last night I tried just melatonin alone (1.5mg) and my early awakening improved since I woke up at 7am (I fall asleep at 2) so is not bad at all. The hangover feeling is a bit uncomfortable and the vivid dreams too. I'll try with a lower dose.

I used the Neuro Programmer and wow, that worked unexpectedly well to induce sleep.

Next week I'm going to be experimenting with the alternatives you mentioned. By the way, what do you mean by cholinergics?

Thank you so much for your interest

PD: I'm already taking Magnesium at mealtime (along with calcium and vit. D in a Jarrow's formula) and that does wonders for my anxiety

For melatonin, several studies say that 350-700mcg are the most effective dosages, taking 10mg won't be more effective than 500mcg plus it will make you drowsy all the day. (that's the hangover feeling you experience)

Cholinergics enhance acetylcholine neurotransmission, it helps lowers excessive excitatory neurotransmission and that's why it can help with the sleep-wake cycle, there are a lot of them :
- soy lecithin (that you can buy in a supermarket)
- phosphatidylcholine
- choline bitartrate/citrate
- phosphatidylserine
I was a chronic insomniac too, it was taking for me at least 45mins-1 hour to sleep sometimes 2 hours, now I just lay on the bed and 3-5mins later I'm already sleeping. this occured thanks to the soy lecithin and choline bitartrate I take. I don't even need to take it everyday just from time to time.
It mustn't be taken at night or else it will wake you up, you have to take it in the morning.

You can also find your choline naturally in foods :
http://en.wikipedia....rces_of_choline

Edited by renfr, 27 January 2013 - 11:22 AM.

[Agomelatinehope]

Today I'll try with a microdose of melatonin

Do you recommend me to buy some "Choline and Inositol" supplement?

Thanks again

[renfr]

Today I'll try with a microdose of melatonin

Do you recommend me to buy some "Choline and Inositol" supplement?

Thanks again

You could try this but beware if you have blood sugar problems as inositol can lower blood sugar and increase insulin activity.

[Agomelatinehope]

I'm going to try tonight with this:




I'm on a benzo withdrawal right now (reducing 2.5mg diazepam each 10 days from a total of 10mg diazepam. Total time 40 days). Right now I'm on half way, taking 5mg diazepam at night along with the supplements.

My main problems right now : nightmares and early awakenings. I can handle day time stress very well with b12 and Folic Acid (both of which I had low levels)

Oh I almost forgot. My Dr told me yesterday that I have an important Vitamin D deficiency. He told me to take every 15 days a supplement called Hidroferol in Spain (Calcifediol) and to force myself to expose to sunlight every day.

Thank you again very much

Edited by Agomelatinehope, 06 February 2013 - 09:27 AM.

[nupi]

Oh I almost forgot. My Dr told me yesterday that I have an important Vitamin D deficiency. He told me to take every 15 days a supplement called Hidroferol in Spain (Calcifediol) and to force myself to expose to sunlight every day.

Thank you again very much

You want to take Cholecalciferol instead, trust me. The sun is quite optional at the right dosage.

[Agomelatinehope]

I'm receiving tomorrow Magnesium Citrate (200 mg) since I heard it can help to sleep better. I'll keep you informed

I'm thinking about buying the following products to make some tests:

-Choline & Inositol (250 mg each)
-B6 (50mg)

PS: Although this has been a persistent problem during years, I must remember you that I'm on my last stage of benzo withdrawal (taking 2.5mg right now and quiting completely in 10 days).

Edited by Agomelatinehope, 17 February 2013 - 12:52 PM.

[norepinephrine]

One thing I've noticed recently about my early awakenings is that they've seemed to be triggered by caffeine withdrawal. Cutting down on my stimulant tolerance has invariably seemed to improve the problem and actually allow me to start sleeping in, which was something I had previously lost the ability to do.

[vtrader]

I've got the same problem, ever since I've been detoxing and taking green superfood mixes I've been waking up between 4-5. But then again I tend to go to sleep from 9-10. But when I wake up I feel awake not drowsey, even though I take bacopa before bed which use to make me feel grogy when waking up.
Maybe go to bed early and take advantage of it, learn to meditate when you wake up, become more productive.