202 replies to this topic

[goldsilver]

Siro don't listening to LBGSHI he is probably a gov plant, BWE has been very studied by government in military, ever heard of HAARP? but not only, these studies are not released because they don't want you to know that you can change your brain pattern the way you want.
asian religions and practices have very well mastered this, even the current dalai lama is interested in bwe.
frequency between 40-48hz you used is around what buddhist monks reach in strong meditation state, it is very enlightening for the mind and getting rid of the current mind manipulation by the govenrment

[Heh]

Why is LBGSHI against something that so clearly works? Has he (she?) even tried it?

Also, the side effects I'm seeing in this thread are strange. I usually hear only about a drop in clarity and an increase in fogginess (not mild, like serious brain impairment) and that's from someone playing a session longer than they should have (for example, repeating the 40Hz entrainment track for hours).

I've been thinking about combining the audio with a resonator or pulse generator (electromagnetic waves) to see if there is an enhanced effect. I'm curious about the pulse generator, because if it works as I expect, then I can automate it's functioning, and can experience the effects each night without having to wear headphones.

There is also the idea of using bright LEDs (so bright you need tanning goggles for your eyes) tuned to the correct frequency to cleanse and heal the entire body. I've seen it used for acne, but based on how I see it works, it could easily be used for many other things.

I'm itching to combine all three each day (or maybe at night) for the perfect wake up.

Edited by Joel, 02 February 2013 - 10:38 PM.

[RealBillPerry]

OK. I made another one which is very experimental. The first time I listened last night, I got a feeling like I was definitely on some sort of cognitive boost.
It alternates very quickly between 80Hz and 160Hz entrainment. I know it isn't 40-48Hz, just wanted to make it available to anyone who is willing to try it.

http://www.mindaudio...le=80HzAnd160Hz

This has music overlaying it because the underlying stuff by itself is very disconcerting.

[LBGSHI]

Siro don't listening to LBGSHI he is probably a gov plant, BWE has been very studied by government in military, ever heard of HAARP? but not only, these studies are not released because they don't want you to know that you can change your brain pattern the way you want.
asian religions and practices have very well mastered this, even the current dalai lama is interested in bwe.
frequency between 40-48hz you used is around what buddhist monks reach in strong meditation state, it is very enlightening for the mind and getting rid of the current mind manipulation by the govenrment

I'm part of a government conspiracy to politely ask for evidence?

As for HAARP, it's related to ionospheric research, not brainwave entrainment (if you'd like to read up on it, you can start at the Wikipedia page - http://en.wikipedia....esearch_Program). You're certainly not the first to espouse conspiracy theories about it being used to brainwash people, control the weather, etc...I guess this happens every time people encounter something they don't understand.

"they don't want you to know"...yeah, thanks for the heads up, buddy

Why is LBGSHI against something that so clearly works? Has he (she?) even tried it?

I never said or even indicated I'm against binaural beats or (attempted) brainwave entrainment. All I said was, I'd be interested to see the results of any studies providing evidence for binaural beats actually effecting brainwaves in any way different from identical sounds with no binaural beats present. I then cited the only studies I could find which did look into binaural beats and brainwave activity, none of which showed any evidence to support this claim, and two of which established that no effect could be detected at all between EEG during binaural beats or plain pink noise. Siro and I engaged in just the kind of discussion that inquisitive people engage in, especially in a community such as Longecity. Its certainly reasonable to keep using something that works for you, but isn't it also reasonable for people to ask if it really works, how it works if it indeed does, and where the evidence is for it working?

As a matter of fact, I stumbled upon binaural beats some time ago, found it mildly interesting, read a few brief anecdotal reports of people using and enjoying it, downloaded a couple of free apps for my phone, tried quite a few binaural beats, and found a couple of them relaxing as advertised, but attributed this to the fact that I was lying down and intentionally relaxing, while focusing on a mild, repetitive, rhythmic beat. I then looked into the proposed science behind binaural beats, and found it lacking any real evidence for efficacy in comparison to non-binaural beats.

I'm perfectly willing to entertain the concept. Point me to evidence supporting binaural beats and brainwave entrainment, and I'm all eyes

Edited by LBGSHI, 03 February 2013 - 12:59 AM.

[Absent]

I seriously doubt LBGSHI is part of some conspiracy by the government to cover it up. There's nothing wrong with skepticism. Though I do not reject the idea that the government would want to suppress methods and ideas of boosting intelligence. The dream of any power-stricken government is a dull population.

To address this idea:

Also, the side effects I'm seeing in this thread are strange. I usually hear only about a drop in clarity and an increase in fogginess

This can be made sense of. Every brain has an internal rhythm set in some manner to help it function to the best of it's ability. Some people naturally have faster rhythms, some slower. Maintaining this rhythm is the work of many systems working together.

When you use Binaural beats, you are basically forcing the brain to operate at a faster, or slower rhythm. This can indeed cause a brain-fog and lack of mental clarity, initially. This is because the brain is not used to operating at this rate. One of the systems have been tweaked by the BWE and the other systems are not calibrated to be in sync with it. This can cause a certain disharmony in thoughts, intially, until the brain can get used to this altered state.

It MAY take initial effort to teach the brain to do your cognitive tasks with coherency in these altered states, but it shouldn't take long. Once the brain is familiarized with operating in these heighten states, it will maintain the benefits of the fast brainwaves, while now being able to do the task with the ease that you had done it before, but being able to get more out of the task due to the faster brainwaves.

Basically, after some of my sessions, if the frequencies were too high, I would definitely notice some brain fog, but at the same time I also noticed a certain change in my manner of thinking. An increased creativity. My brain felt more powerful, yet not fully synchronized, if that makes sense. It was obvious I needed to get my brain accustomed to this higher-level of functioning while doing the cognitive activites I wanted to do. It isn't as difficult as it seems, it is in fact very easy, just takes a little work.

This would also explain the initial insomnia caused by entraining to high brainwave frequencies. People who naturally have these high levels of brainwaves have no issues going to sleep, primarily because their brains are calibrated, so to speak, to operate at these higher levels, so they can function more smoothly. The initial days of entraining to these high frequencies, the brain has to work to smooth itself out, or rather to recalibrate it's various checks&balancing systems in order to operate smoothly at these high frequencies.


This is the theory I have deduced based on my experienced, and the gradual reduction in the initial brainfog, but while maintaining the creative and cognitive enhanced aspects of the Gamma Wave entrainment.

[OpaqueMind]

I've been using Gamma binaurals for the past three days now, I must say they are amazing! Speed and creativity of thought is ramped up, perceptual acuity (ie detail and colour) is increased and I'm rather more eloquent and witty in conversation. It also destroys any remnants of fatigue due to sub-optimal sleep. I have a few more questions, if you will oblige

What do you think the maximum amount of time you can listen to Gamma beats per day is safe/effective, or rather how long do you and do you think more could be beneficial?

How fast do you think it is safe to ramp up the frequncies, and do you see a corresponding increase of benefits with greater frequency?

It seems to me that perhaps one should pick a frequency and maintain it for a time, as the neural structures that adapt to accomodate and further proliferate it take time to build. I've used LifeFlow BWE before and in the short introduction it was said that 2 months is an optimal time within which to train a frequency. As the brain usually fires less Gamma waves than other kinds it follows logically that it is less structurally equiped to maintain these for long periods and therefore changes more dramatic than those seen with alpha/theta may be required. Do you have any thoughts on this?

Also, do you plan on reaching hyper-gamma or lambda frequencies with this technology? If so I would be very interested in any further reports you may relay of your progress.

LBGSHI, maybe you should just try it and see for yourself instead of waiting for a rigorous study to come out? Or if you prefer you could languish in obscurity, while the rest of us become hypercharged mental entities. Just kidding But I do think there is a certain danger in completely disregarding the realm of experience within the scientific process. It is after all the seed that sparks the quest for a deeper understanding, and as such a crucial aspect we cannot responsibly ignore it. Just because it hasn't been demonstated and docoumented scientifically doesn't mean it is not a real phenomena with tangible effects; to take that view of the world is to miss out on much of what it is to be human. We cannot untangle the mystery of consciousness and reduce it to mere equations, therefore should we doubt it exists at all? Likewise the ephemeral feeling that accompanies the observation of a captivating panorama or the beauty of certain pieces of music? What I'm trying to get at is that there is a certain validity to subjective experience, and just because you can't deduce the whole from examining the parts certainly doesn't mean that the whole does not exist. Oh scientific reductionism, how you suck the life out of life. I can't tell entirely if you are of this position, but you do seem to be leaning that way, and your demeanor suggests the often smug superiority of those who hold this position. Hopefully I am mistaken though

Oh and to end on a more positive note, thank you for bringing this to our attention! You're awesome man

Edited by OpaqueMind, 03 February 2013 - 03:36 PM.

[goldsilver]

Siro don't listening to LBGSHI he is probably a gov plant, BWE has been very studied by government in military, ever heard of HAARP? but not only, these studies are not released because they don't want you to know that you can change your brain pattern the way you want.
asian religions and practices have very well mastered this, even the current dalai lama is interested in bwe.
frequency between 40-48hz you used is around what buddhist monks reach in strong meditation state, it is very enlightening for the mind and getting rid of the current mind manipulation by the govenrment

I'm part of a government conspiracy to politely ask for evidence?

As for HAARP, it's related to ionospheric research, not brainwave entrainment (if you'd like to read up on it, you can start at the Wikipedia page - http://en.wikipedia....esearch_Program). You're certainly not the first to espouse conspiracy theories about it being used to brainwash people, control the weather, etc...I guess this happens every time people encounter something they don't understand.

"they don't want you to know"...yeah, thanks for the heads up, buddy

you want evidence? put headphones on, listen to some binaurals and you will feel the effects
yes you are a gov plant or a cop trying to ruin this community, we all see you making thread telling people to take glutamate and calcium
never listen to him people, glutamate and calcium will cause excitotoxicity and destroy your neurons, this is dangerous advice and proably gov plan to destroy the brains of people who know what they don't want you to know.
since you're a gov plant you know how this works how haarp can mimic brainwaves and change them to influence on us, very evil machines
if you wantto spread propaganda we don"t need this on the forum

[Absent]

Are you guys being serious? Quit being childish. If LBGSHI doesn't want to try and wants to be skeptical then let him... I don't understand why you guys care so much. Science would get no where without skepticism.

goldsilver, You're spreading more propaganda than he is. Trust me, I am a huge fan of conspiracy theories. I will read them all day and night and believe them, but as far as the forum here, you're doing more trolling and flaming than any one here. If someone wants to be skeptical, let them be. Don't go out of your way to try them or try to condemn them when they've made up their mind. Simply post your own results and if they see them and decide they want to give them a try, then let them! Seriously, you guys are dirtying up this topic, I would be concerned if the topic didn't have skepticism. Please, play nice. Don't accuse someone of crap when you know damn well you wouldn't want to be accused of crap like that.


Regarding the topic:

I am going to ease up on listening to these frequencies so much. My insomnia is getting worse lol. Melatonin won't make me fall asleep anymore and it took me over 4 hours of falling asleep. Although, I noticed my dreams have been borderline lucid for the past couple of nights, as in, I am hyper aware and can almost control them, yet they are not fully clear, as if there is some brain fog still. Never do I have clear, near lucid dreams like this. I'm going to take it slow with how much I listen to these frequencies day-to-day and try to stick to a single frequency, at least until I can get the insomnia under control.

[OpaqueMind]

You're right, this is a scientific forum after all. I got a little carried away there. Maybe my behavioural inhibition is lacking due to the insomnia I have also been experiencing. Well not insomnia per se but since starting this I've woken up after 7 and a half hours sleep and been unable to get back to sleep. I usually need about 9, so it's starting to take its toll. At what threshold did you experience insomnia Siro? Did it develop over time and get worse the more you listened? Hmmm yes perhaps there's a reason besides energy conservation that our brains don't usually run at these levels. I thought perhaps the early morning awakening I've experienced were purely coincidental but now I fear not; thanks for the heads up.

[Absent]

It might not be because of the insomnia. I've noticed the Gamma Freqs tend to make me more of an asshole also. They make me less caring, less empathetic. Almost entirely uncaring to things I am not intentionally motivated to. I don't think this has anything to do with the Insomnia, because I typically don't even get like that when I don't sleep well. I seem to be more detached from things, in an almost psychopathic sort of way, feels sort of nice, peaceful almost.

At what threshold did I experience Insomnia? Usually I sleep about 7 hours and 30 minutes, anything more drains my energy for the day. Lately since listening to the Gamma I've had trouble getting to sleep, mind almost finds it impossible to doze off, I can sometimes lay in bed for a couple hours. If I do get to sleep my dreams are oddly vivid in detail, yet I wake up throughout the night, feeling hyperactive in the mind, yet manage to get back to sleep.

I've gotta figure out the sleep scenario.
Interesting thing with my dreams is, over the past week, they seem to be almost like a chronicle. Where the dreams every night build upon the storyline of my dreams from the previous night, in a weird way. It's like, in the dream I can see the linear sequence of events from the past dream nights, yet at the same time my ability to remember dreams has not been increased what so ever, or so I think.

The insomnia did seem to develop the more I listened to the beats. It also isn't helping that it also seems to be effecting my sleep cycle. While I wake up repeatedly in the night, I find it harder to get up at my normal time. Since I don't do anything in the morning, I have found myself laying in bed for almost 11-12 hours from when I get into my bed to sleep. Feels like my sleep cycle is shifting. It's easy to get up middle of the night, but hard to get up when I should get up. It is as if my brain is having a more difficult time winding down, so I don't get to my normal sleep cycles until later than usual.

I've really gotta figure out the sleep thing, because I just don't want to give up my boosts during the day. Perhaps I just need to stick to a single freq for like 2-3 weeks for only a certain time each time and let my brain get used to that.

[Mind]

It is not a government conspiracy to ask for scientific proof. Almost everyone who posts anything here has been asked at some point to "back it up" with rigorous scientific studies. Also, LBGSHI did not say he was against binaural beats, just looking for some studies....be a little less defensive everyone.

That being said, I am inclined to think that the binaural beats help people meditate, rather than directly affect brain waves. Meditation has been studied fairly extensively and it has been shown to have significant effects on the mind and body. So if binaural beats help a person meditate....wonderful!

As a side note, just in general, don't discount the placebo effect. It has been shown to be very powerful. That is why EVERY rigorous scientific study has placebo control.

......now I am going to listen to some binaural beats while I work and see what happens.

[Absent]

It is not a government conspiracy to ask for scientific proof. Almost everyone who posts anything here has been asked at some point to "back it up" with rigorous scientific studies. Also, LBGSHI did not say he was against binaural beats, just looking for some studies....be a little less defensive everyone.

That being said, I am inclined to think that the binaural beats help people meditate, rather than directly affect brain waves. Meditation has been studied fairly extensively and it has been shown to have significant effects on the mind and body. So if binaural beats help a person meditate....wonderful!

As a side note, just in general, don't discount the placebo effect. It has been shown to be very powerful. That is why EVERY rigorous scientific study has placebo control.

......now I am going to listen to some binaural beats while I work and see what happens.

Good point. Yes Binaural beats have been proven to help people meditate or get into meditative states WITHOUT meditating. I would like to point out the very act of meditation is to altar the brainwaves and have the mind behave in a different, more relaxed, or more coherent manner.

I would also like to note some days I have skipped listening all together, looking to get back to sleep, including taking some tranquilizers, and they had little effect on helping me sleep. I am sure the placebo effect can help convince a person that they have trouble going to sleep, but when you convince yourself otherwise, and still have trouble going to sleep, a placebo can be ruled out. Does a placebo effect work even if you don't want it to work, or don't expect it to? This is something we must question.

It's not just that my mindset has changed, it feels like I have been under the subtle influence of some mind altering drug almost. Which itself is very odd. Similar to taking a Xanax, combined with a stimulant, or maybe some sort of cannabis edible, without any of the impairments.

I am also interested in hearing your experiences after listening to Gamma-Binaurals everyday for at least 30-60minutes and hearing how it effects you. I kind of feel like I have been transformed into a different person over this past week, and I'm not sure whether to be worried or not. My whole personality seems to have changed. The only real negative aspect I can see at this point is the sleep issues.

Edited by Siro, 03 February 2013 - 06:26 PM.

[goldsilver]

gamma wave is known to cause insomnia, try delta waves at night for sleep

[LBGSHI]

LBGSHI, maybe you should just try it and see for yourself instead of waiting for a rigorous study to come out? Or if you prefer you could languish in obscurity, while the rest of us become hypercharged mental entities. Just kidding But I do think there is a certain danger in completely disregarding the realm of experience within the scientific process. It is after all the seed that sparks the quest for a deeper understanding, and as such a crucial aspect we cannot responsibly ignore it. Just because it hasn't been demonstated and docoumented scientifically doesn't mean it is not a real phenomena with tangible effects; to take that view of the world is to miss out on much of what it is to be human. We cannot untangle the mystery of consciousness and reduce it to mere equations, therefore should we doubt it exists at all? Likewise the ephemeral feeling that accompanies the observation of a captivating panorama or the beauty of certain pieces of music? What I'm trying to get at is that there is a certain validity to subjective experience, and just because you can't deduce the whole from examining the parts certainly doesn't mean that the whole does not exist. Oh scientific reductionism, how you suck the life out of life. I can't tell entirely if you are of this position, but you do seem to be leaning that way, and your demeanor suggests the often smug superiority of those who hold this position. Hopefully I am mistaken though

I agree; personal, anecdotal experience and self-experimentation are certainly valid in science, and are cornerstones of what we do here at Longecity with all sorts of things. Another cornerstone is research and analysis of evidence, and these things go hand in hand. The two big questions are always, "Is this working for anyone?", and "Have studies provided evidence for this, or at least not provided evidence to the contrary?". One relies on your method, the other on mine. Incidentally, though I called the former method 'your' method, I'm always interested in both. As an example, take a look at my thread concerning calcium and nootropics, or my thread concerning glutamate and nootropics - I utilize the combined approach of "Does scientific research support this hypothesis?" and "Does this work for me/anyone else?".

Does that really make me "smug"? I think it's just reasonable scientific inquiry.

yes you are a gov plant or a cop trying to ruin this community, we all see you making thread telling people to take glutamate and calcium
never listen to him people, glutamate and calcium will cause excitotoxicity and destroy your neurons, this is dangerous advice and proably gov plan to destroy the brains of people who know what they don't want you to know.

The threads I started concerning glutamate and calcium are exploratory - they discuss what the scientific evidence is, whether or not supplementation is safe (it certainly seems quite safe, especially given the many studies performed with no adverse effects at much higher doses than we're discussing), and whether or not it subjectively improves the effects of nootropic supplementation. Multiple users have tried both adjuncts and reported positive improvements with no negative side effects, and I've been taking both for several weeks now with a sustained, significant improvement in the effects of my own nootropic regimen, also with no negative side effects. Nonetheless, I've never advocated taking anything - I've merely proposed interesting hypotheses, then asked if anyone else had tried them or was interested in doing so. As with anything on an internet forum discussing supplementation, do so at your own risk. In this case, the risk seems very small, unless you overdose dramatically, and the potential benefits are quite significant.

Are you guys being serious? Quit being childish. If LBGSHI doesn't want to try and wants to be skeptical then let him... I don't understand why you guys care so much. Science would get no where without skepticism.

Thanks.

In case anyone else didn't pick up on it, Siro and I were just having a discussion. We may not have agreed on all points, but we stated our positions and explained them to one another. This doesn't mean we're going to meet each other outside the saloon at sundown, or have an 80's-style montage and race dirt bikes or something. It wasn't a fight; it was a discussion.

It is not a government conspiracy to ask for scientific proof. Almost everyone who posts anything here has been asked at some point to "back it up" with rigorous scientific studies. Also, LBGSHI did not say he was against binaural beats, just looking for some studies....be a little less defensive everyone.

That being said, I am inclined to think that the binaural beats help people meditate, rather than directly affect brain waves. Meditation has been studied fairly extensively and it has been shown to have significant effects on the mind and body. So if binaural beats help a person meditate....wonderful!

As a side note, just in general, don't discount the placebo effect. It has been shown to be very powerful. That is why EVERY rigorous scientific study has placebo control.

......now I am going to listen to some binaural beats while I work and see what happens.

Agreed; the placebo effect is one of the most important aspects of medicine. It must be expected and accounted for in every serious study, as well as in common medical practice. If you're a doctor and your patient complains of chest pains, displays all the symptoms of angina, and has a family history of heart disease, you may prescribe him nitroglycerine before more thorough tests can be performed. If he reports that this has resolved the problem and does not return for further testing, and several months later returns with the same complaint as well as a complaint of acid reflux, it is likely that nitroglycerine acted as a placebo and made him feel better because he was taking something that was 'supposed to' treat the problem, and in fact he is suffering from GERD or something similar. Tests must be performed to determine the specific problems at work, but placebo effect is always taken into account.

I would also like to note some days I have skipped listening all together, looking to get back to sleep, including taking some tranquilizers, and they had little effect on helping me sleep. I am sure the placebo effect can help convince a person that they have trouble going to sleep, but when you convince yourself otherwise, and still have trouble going to sleep, a placebo can be ruled out. Does a placebo effect work even if you don't want it to work, or don't expect it to? This is something we must question.

Technically, this would describe the nocebo effect. Placebo is Latin for "I shall please", implying an expected sense of improvement. Nocebo, Latin for "I shall harm", is the term used to describe the opposite effect, such as when someone is told that he has ingested poison when he hasn't, and he exhibits or perceives the symptoms he is told to expect.

Whether or not you have convinced yourself to feel a certain way is very subjective and difficult to ascertain. The subconscious comes into play, and I will not begin to deduce what either your conscious or subconscious feels it should experience from a given stimulus. It bears only to keep in mind that placebo and nocebo are prolific and occur very often. A good way to determine the effects or lack of effects from binaural beats would be to create or acquire a set of beats that is not binaural but sounds identical to a set of true binaural beats, and have a friend document which are which, without telling you, and test them for several days, documenting which ones you've tried and what effects you perceived. At the end of a few days, ask your friend which ones were really binaural beats, and see if those match up with the times you perceived the expected effects.

[Rethar]

I've had previous experience using binaural beats so when I saw this thread it seemed quite interesting. The only other time I'd heard of gamma entrainment being used was on the forums for the neuroprogrammer program (fancier version of bwgen) and some guy with schizophrenia had improvement in his symptoms from listening to one session of gamma per day, but his symptoms got worse with two sessions a day.

So anyways I have been trying out this 40hz entrainment thing for 4 days now (using isochronic tones instead of binaurals so I don't have to use headphones) and it is definitely interesting. The first day I did 40hz for 30 minutes. Right afterward I felt what seemed like a dopaminergic effect, with being able to enjoy things around me more and also feeling a bit buzzed in a caffeine-like way. Didn't notice much cognitive improvement.

The next day I tried 30mins of 40hz in the morning and 30mins of 40hz in the evening. I think this was too much because I felt wired the whole day and also I didn't get as much of the increased enjoyment of things like the day before. The next day I just did 30mins of 40hz in the morning. This was way better. I felt like I could definitely think faster though it was moreso because I wasn't getting distracted by things that much. Plus, I have been dealing with some degree of brainfog previously but with this gamma entrainment it was like I was able to think much clearer.

However I started to get that emotional blunting type of feeling... like I wouldn't experience the same range of emotions as usual, I would just stay I dunno... like constantly "on" without as much variation in how I'd feel. Reminded me a little of piracetam + caffeine but less euphoric. I think it's positive though, as it's not like I feel nothing, just that I feel a slight stimulant feeling that doesn't vary in feeling positive or negative as much, more towards a robotic side. I went to dinner with some friends and I was acting way differently also. I was talking more, wasn't as self-conscious in what I'd say but at the same time it felt like it'd be really easy for me to come off as arrogant if I let myself since I didn't care as much about the emotions of the social experience.

Today, the 4th day, I wanted to try out 48hz a little so I split my listening into 20minutes of 40hz and 10minutes of 48hz. Right after listening I felt a noticeable elevation in my mood but about an hour or two later I felt strung out...so I'm thinking maybe I need to get more used to 40hz regularly before even trying 48hz again.
Other effects: I've been sleeping less, though that might be due to the day I listened to the track in the evening. The emotional effects are odd, since I feel like I'm going through life differently with less emotional variations. Still, the positives are interesting enough that I want to keep going with this.

[Absent]

My positive effects are notably phenomenal. I want to continue so they will keep increasing, as they appear to do with each session, but I must figure out how to solve this insomnia issue. Someone suggested Delta Entrainment, but there's a few reasons why I don't want to do that: If a Gamma Session from early in the morning persists through to the night time, then that would mean I would need that Gamma Session to wake up from the Delta Entrainment, or just generally endure a slower thought process throughout the day until I do another Gamma Entrainment.

I figure the brain just needs to learn how to switch off the Gamma when it goes to sleep at night, and switch it back on upon waking. I truly love the dreaming enhancement I seem to get from Gamma Entrainment. In general, as long as I get sleep, it seems the Gamma Entrainment provides more mental health boosts than any supplement has ever provided me.

I guess from this point I just have to tinker until I find the proper balance with the entrainment, because my sleep is very important to me.

[renfr]

My positive effects are notably phenomenal. I want to continue so they will keep increasing, as they appear to do with each session, but I must figure out how to solve this insomnia issue. Someone suggested Delta Entrainment, but there's a few reasons why I don't want to do that: If a Gamma Session from early in the morning persists through to the night time, then that would mean I would need that Gamma Session to wake up from the Delta Entrainment, or just generally endure a slower thought process throughout the day until I do another Gamma Entrainment.

I figure the brain just needs to learn how to switch off the Gamma when it goes to sleep at night, and switch it back on upon waking. I truly love the dreaming enhancement I seem to get from Gamma Entrainment. In general, as long as I get sleep, it seems the Gamma Entrainment provides more mental health boosts than any supplement has ever provided me.

I guess from this point I just have to tinker until I find the proper balance with the entrainment, because my sleep is very important to me.

You could use a drug to initiate sleep onset even though long term that could be unhealthy.
However I think in a case like yours melatonin should be a good idea if your problem is only about sleep onset.
It would be very interesting to know how this work in the brain, it definitely has something to do with neurotransmitters, there's a commonly accepted theory that these frequencies specifically help activating certain neurotransmitters or functions of the brain.
Gamma waves may cause an excess of glutamate which is the reason of the insomnia.
Caffeine has been shown to increase beta wave activity in the brain so there might be a link.

By the way, have you ever tried isochronic tones? If so what do you think of them?

[Heh]

Siro don't listening to LBGSHI he is probably a gov plant, BWE has been very studied by government in military, ever heard of HAARP? but not only, these studies are not released because they don't want you to know that you can change your brain pattern the way you want.
asian religions and practices have very well mastered this, even the current dalai lama is interested in bwe.
frequency between 40-48hz you used is around what buddhist monks reach in strong meditation state, it is very enlightening for the mind and getting rid of the current mind manipulation by the govenrment

I'm part of a government conspiracy to politely ask for evidence?

As for HAARP, it's related to ionospheric research, not brainwave entrainment (if you'd like to read up on it, you can start at the Wikipedia page - http://en.wikipedia....esearch_Program). You're certainly not the first to espouse conspiracy theories about it being used to brainwash people, control the weather, etc...I guess this happens every time people encounter something they don't understand.

"they don't want you to know"...yeah, thanks for the heads up, buddy

Why is LBGSHI against something that so clearly works? Has he (she?) even tried it?

I never said or even indicated I'm against binaural beats or (attempted) brainwave entrainment. All I said was, I'd be interested to see the results of any studies providing evidence for binaural beats actually effecting brainwaves in any way different from identical sounds with no binaural beats present. I then cited the only studies I could find which did look into binaural beats and brainwave activity, none of which showed any evidence to support this claim, and two of which established that no effect could be detected at all between EEG during binaural beats or plain pink noise. Siro and I engaged in just the kind of discussion that inquisitive people engage in, especially in a community such as Longecity. Its certainly reasonable to keep using something that works for you, but isn't it also reasonable for people to ask if it really works, how it works if it indeed does, and where the evidence is for it working?

As a matter of fact, I stumbled upon binaural beats some time ago, found it mildly interesting, read a few brief anecdotal reports of people using and enjoying it, downloaded a couple of free apps for my phone, tried quite a few binaural beats, and found a couple of them relaxing as advertised, but attributed this to the fact that I was lying down and intentionally relaxing, while focusing on a mild, repetitive, rhythmic beat. I then looked into the proposed science behind binaural beats, and found it lacking any real evidence for efficacy in comparison to non-binaural beats.

I'm perfectly willing to entertain the concept. Point me to evidence supporting binaural beats and brainwave entrainment, and I'm all eyes

Studies:

https://www.google.c...ubmed/ binaural
https://www.google.c...ave entrainment

It is not a government conspiracy to ask for scientific proof. Almost everyone who posts anything here has been asked at some point to "back it up" with rigorous scientific studies. Also, LBGSHI did not say he was against binaural beats, just looking for some studies....be a little less defensive everyone.

That being said, I am inclined to think that the binaural beats help people meditate, rather than directly affect brain waves. Meditation has been studied fairly extensively and it has been shown to have significant effects on the mind and body. So if binaural beats help a person meditate....wonderful!

As a side note, just in general, don't discount the placebo effect. It has been shown to be very powerful. That is why EVERY rigorous scientific study has placebo control.

......now I am going to listen to some binaural beats while I work and see what happens.

This isn't the only thread in which he has spoken out (maybe that's too strong a term) against brainwave entrainment.

Edited by Joel, 04 February 2013 - 03:52 AM.

[LBGSHI]

Studies:

https://www.google.c...ubmed/ binaural
https://www.google.c...ave entrainment

Yeah, I've performed those searches, along with multiple others, and haven't found any studies providing evidence for binaural beats inducing brainwave entrainment. Two studies, which I referenced in this thread, specifically stated that zero evidence was found for brainwave entrainment by binaural beats, after extensive testing to detect such an effect.

Siro pointed out a study which stated that one type of binaural beats had a different effect than one other type of binaural beats; namely, people were able to concentrate better and become less annoyed while using one type than while using another...but despite the fact that there was a control group with only pink noise in this experiment, the researchers never reference this group in the abstract aside from mentioning that they existed, and they never state whether or not either of the two types of binaural beats induced an improvement over regular pink noise.

Aside from that, I am less interested in the question of whether or not binaural beats can relax someone or have other positive effects, and more interested in whether this is because of brainwave entrainment. In other words, I would like to see any studies specifying that EEG testing was performed and verified altered brainwave activity during binaural beats as compared with non-binaural beats (control group). As it stands, two studies were performed that anyone here has been able to find, and both of these specified explicitly that NO DIFFERENCE was found in brainwave activity between binaural beats and plain pink noise.

Moreover, the theory behind entrainment is that brainwaves will begin to follow (or be entrained by) the frequency (or rather, frequency difference between two stimuli, one in each ear), and that this will effect your mental and cognitive activity in general. The problem with this theory is that brainwaves are the result of the brain's activity, not the other way around.

In summary we have a theory that doesn't really make sense, and only two studies available, both of which strongly indicate that the theory is incorrect. More studies will yield more results, so if there are other studies already, someone should find them and point them out; otherwise, hopefully more studies will be performed, so that brainwave entrainment can be either proven or disproved. I believe it will be the latter. You may believe otherwise, and that's fine.

This isn't the only thread in which he has spoken out (maybe that's too strong a term) against brainwave entrainment.

Right; back when those discussions were active, I asked the same questions as in this one. As in this thread, I never said I was 'against' binaural beats. I said that there is no evidence for binaural beats inducing brainwave entrainment, and that the scientific theory behind it doesn't make sense. That still stands, and I'm still interested in any evidence to the contrary. When I say this, I don't mean it in a smug or condescending way - I'm really interested in evidence to the contrary. If binaural beats really does what proponents say it does, that's great! But based on all information available, it doesn't look to be the case.

Edited by LBGSHI, 04 February 2013 - 04:19 AM.

[alexburke]

I'm Using I Doser's Gamma Brainwaves Dose With Success.
I've made some breakthrough ideas and I'm only on Day 3 of using it 2 times a day for 30 minutes a session.

Both very good ideas, one has implications of watching videos in transparent online while doing research papers behind the transparent video.
The other is far more complex, and requires the idea stay safe. Anyone can program the above ^^ my compliments.
I got bigger plans. - Using this beside my subliminal intelligence development

Listening to music has an effect on brainwaves, This entrains the brain over time. No one said you instantly listen to it and it works. First day were pretty unproductive for me and now its working better then the second day on the 3rd day.

Also to the above poster-
Music/frequency has an effect on the brains activity then the brainwaves.

Edited by alexburke, 04 February 2013 - 04:28 AM.

[Heh]

Studies:

https://www.google.c...ubmed/ binaural
https://www.google.c...ave entrainment

Yeah, I've performed those searches, along with multiple others, and haven't found any studies providing evidence for binaural beats inducing brainwave entrainment. Two studies, which I referenced in this thread, specifically stated that zero evidence was found for brainwave entrainment by binaural beats, after extensive testing to detect such an effect.

Siro pointed out a study which stated that one type of binaural beats had a different effect than one other type of binaural beats; namely, people were able to concentrate better and become less annoyed while using one type than while using another...but despite the fact that there was a control group with only pink noise in this experiment, the researchers never reference this group in the abstract aside from mentioning that they existed, and they never state whether or not either of the two types of binaural beats induced an improvement over regular pink noise.

Aside from that, I am less interested in the question of whether or not binaural beats can relax someone or have other positive effects, and more interested in whether this is because of brainwave entrainment. In other words, I would like to see any studies specifying that EEG testing was performed and verified altered brainwave activity during binaural beats as compared with non-binaural beats (control group). As it stands, two studies were performed that anyone here has been able to find, and both of these specified explicitly that NO DIFFERENCE was found in brainwave activity between binaural beats and plain pink noise.

Moreover, the theory behind entrainment is that brainwaves will begin to follow (or be entrained by) the frequency (or rather, frequency difference between two stimuli, one in each ear), and that this will effect your mental and cognitive activity in general. The problem with this theory is that brainwaves are the result of the brain's activity, not the other way around.

In summary we have a theory that doesn't really make sense, and only two studies available, both of which strongly indicate that the theory is incorrect. More studies will yield more results, so if there are other studies already, someone should find them and point them out; otherwise, hopefully more studies will be performed, so that brainwave entrainment can be either proven or disproved. I believe it will be the latter. You may believe otherwise, and that's fine.

This isn't the only thread in which he has spoken out (maybe that's too strong a term) against brainwave entrainment.

Right; back when those discussions were active, I asked the same questions as in this one. As in this thread, I never said I was 'against' binaural beats. I said that there is no evidence for binaural beats inducing brainwave entrainment, and that the scientific theory behind it doesn't make sense. That still stands, and I'm still interested in any evidence to the contrary. When I say this, I don't mean it in a smug or condescending way - I'm really interested in evidence to the contrary. If binaural beats really does what proponents say it does, that's great! But based on all information available, it doesn't look to be the case.

Isochronic tones. I don't know if there are any studies, but I remember seeing videos on YouTube that explicitly showed someone's EEG changing while listening to the audio (and you could also see the left and right brain synchronizing).

Edited by Joel, 04 February 2013 - 04:53 AM.

[LBGSHI]

Isochronic tones. I don't know if there are any studies, but I remember seeing videos on YouTube that explicitly showed someone's EEG changing while listening to the audio (and you could also see the left and right brain synchronizing).

Cool, but I'd like to see this from a legitimate source. I could create a video that shows my fingers getting longer when I hold my breathe, and put that on YouTube, but that doesn't mean it really happens. In fact, there are millions of fake videos on YouTube, illustrating just this point. Couple that with the fact that there is a huge interest in selling isochronic tones and binaural beats for large monetary gain, and you have plenty of motive for providing a quick video showing "proof" of effect.

It's certainly a start (possibly real evidence is better than no evidence), but its not really satisfying.

[Absent]

LBGSHI,

If you want some actual evidence and proof so bad, why not contact your local brain center, or local university and talk to somebody in the right department about doing some testing regarding Binaural beats. It wouldn't take too much of anyones time and I'm sure any student or professor with access to that equipment wouldn't mind trying it out if it meant their name got to be in a published paper somewhere. I'm sure you would find many people willing to do it.

[LBGSHI]

LBGSHI,

If you want some actual evidence and proof so bad, why not contact your local brain center, or local university and talk to somebody in the right department about doing some testing regarding Binaural beats. It wouldn't take too much of anyones time and I'm sure any student or professor with access to that equipment wouldn't mind trying it out if it meant their name got to be in a published paper somewhere. I'm sure you would find many people willing to do it.

Because, although I would like to see some evidence, I don't "want it so bad". My time is valuable, I'm married with four children and have a full-time job and other interests aside from cognitive enhancement (although it is a very interesting subject to me), and I doubt very much that such a thing would be as simple and quick as you imply above.

More importantly, the fact that there isn't evidence by now does not reflect well on the theory of brainwave entrainment. The burden of proof (or evidence) rests on those claiming something new, and thus it would make more sense for someone with a direct interest in binaural beats and brainwave entrainment (such as yourself) to push forward and attempt to get involved, as you specified above, in scientific research.

This is not to say you have any obligation to do so. You perceive positive effects, there's no evidence for these being involved with brainwave entrainment (but they could still be occurring due to the general effects of concentration on rhythmic beats, etc), I ask for evidence, no one can provide it (at this point, I presume there isn't any), and that's about all we're left with.

I'm OK with that; I'm just curious to see if non-binaural beats would achieve the same effect. Since there's very little chance of anything negative occurring with binaural beats, there's no real reason to remove them and stick to non-binaural beats (except for scientific inquiry), so if you're not interested in how it works or if it works in the ways proposed, and you're just enjoying the ride, great. The only reason I continue to respond to this thread is that a few overzealous people took my request for evidence as an affront, and I wanted to clarify that this was not the case.

[Absent]

I find it odd that you have no time to try for some scientific experiments but you seem to have plenty of time to continually respond to people on here with somewhat lengthy messages.

As you are curious, I am also curious about the effect of non-binaural beats. It is well-known that sounds in general have an effect on the emotions of a person, from pop music, to heavy metal, to smooth classical music... what if it's not at all the brainwaves that are being effected... but the emotional centers. It would make more sense. Emotions are practically the driving force for every action, and brain activity. While we understand that various parts of emotions come from different parts of the plain, the connection between, emotions, consciousness, and related thought, and how the formation of thought patterns can change in behavior, is still very unknown to science.

What if this has nothing to do with brainwaves at all, but more to do with an emotional influence of consistent rhythm. After all, we have no knowledge of knowing how emotions directly effect the formation of thoughts, and thought patterns, their influence on the neural chemistry of the brain.

It would only make sense that rhythm has a powerful effect on the body. Rhythm is a part of every single cell in our bodies, even down to our heart beat, which subconsciously we are aware of our entire lives. Rhythm is just an aspect of math, which is the language of nature.

I really feel like I'm onto something here. Perhaps this is why not many brainwave changes have been noticeable in EEGs, but would also explain why thought-behavior can be influenced. It would also explain why Monural, Isochronic, and Binaural Beats all have an effect on the brain, they all have one thing in common... the rhythm.

[LBGSHI]

I find it odd that you have no time to try for some scientific experiments but you seem to have plenty of time to continually respond to people on here with somewhat lengthy messages.

I can respond on a forum in my own home, between other tasks, and whenever time allows. Finding someone with access to the EEG equipment required to perform proper studies of this kind, and who also has access to the required personnel to perform a peer-reviewed, placebo-controlled, double-blind study would take considerably longer, would require me to travel somewhere, and would probably not be so easy to convince anyone to perform in the first place.

Nonetheless, perhaps you're right. Maybe I should find the time, and get involved in some real research. Maybe I'll make some calls. While I'm at it, I could try to convince someone to run some tests while I take various nootropics. Still, it doesn't seem unreasonable for someone promoting the use of binaural beats to do the same.

As you are curious, I am also curious about the effect of non-binaural beats. It is well-known that sounds in general have an effect on the emotions of a person, from pop music, to heavy metal, to smooth classical music... what if it's not at all the brainwaves that are being effected... but the emotional centers. It would make more sense. Emotions are practically the driving force for every action, and brain activity. While we understand that various parts of emotions come from different parts of the plain, the connection between, emotions, consciousness, and related thought, and how the formation of thought patterns can change in behavior, is still very unknown to science.

What if this has nothing to do with brainwaves at all, but more to do with an emotional influence of consistent rhythm. After all, we have no knowledge of knowing how emotions directly effect the formation of thoughts, and thought patterns, their influence on the neural chemistry of the brain.

It would only make sense that rhythm has a powerful effect on the body. Rhythm is a part of every single cell in our bodies, even down to our heart beat, which subconsciously we are aware of our entire lives. Rhythm is just an aspect of math, which is the language of nature.

I really feel like I'm onto something here. Perhaps this is why not many brainwave changes have been noticeable in EEGs, but would also explain why thought-behavior can be influenced. It would also explain why Monural, Isochronic, and Binaural Beats all have an effect on the brain, they all have one thing in common... the rhythm.

I agree. That's what I said above.

[health_nutty]

I've been trying the 40hz binuaral beat and haven't noticed anything. I will continue this experiement for a week and report back here.

[Heh]

I find it odd that you have no time to try for some scientific experiments but you seem to have plenty of time to continually respond to people on here with somewhat lengthy messages.

I can respond on a forum in my own home, between other tasks, and whenever time allows. Finding someone with access to the EEG equipment required to perform proper studies of this kind, and who also has access to the required personnel to perform a peer-reviewed, placebo-controlled, double-blind study would take considerably longer, would require me to travel somewhere, and would probably not be so easy to convince anyone to perform in the first place.

Nonetheless, perhaps you're right. Maybe I should find the time, and get involved in some real research. Maybe I'll make some calls. While I'm at it, I could try to convince someone to run some tests while I take various nootropics. Still, it doesn't seem unreasonable for someone promoting the use of binaural beats to do the same.

As you are curious, I am also curious about the effect of non-binaural beats. It is well-known that sounds in general have an effect on the emotions of a person, from pop music, to heavy metal, to smooth classical music... what if it's not at all the brainwaves that are being effected... but the emotional centers. It would make more sense. Emotions are practically the driving force for every action, and brain activity. While we understand that various parts of emotions come from different parts of the plain, the connection between, emotions, consciousness, and related thought, and how the formation of thought patterns can change in behavior, is still very unknown to science.

What if this has nothing to do with brainwaves at all, but more to do with an emotional influence of consistent rhythm. After all, we have no knowledge of knowing how emotions directly effect the formation of thoughts, and thought patterns, their influence on the neural chemistry of the brain.

It would only make sense that rhythm has a powerful effect on the body. Rhythm is a part of every single cell in our bodies, even down to our heart beat, which subconsciously we are aware of our entire lives. Rhythm is just an aspect of math, which is the language of nature.

I really feel like I'm onto something here. Perhaps this is why not many brainwave changes have been noticeable in EEGs, but would also explain why thought-behavior can be influenced. It would also explain why Monural, Isochronic, and Binaural Beats all have an effect on the brain, they all have one thing in common... the rhythm.

I agree. That's what I said above.

You sound very lazy. As for white noise, it is likely that has a relaxing effect as well (I'm remembering the days when women would buy mini waterfalls to have the noise calm them as they go to bed).

Studies, studies, studies, studies..

What exactly do studies prove? Yay, they eliminate and isolate variables. Sure, they add a certain amount of legitimacy to the thing studied, but at the end of the day I see them as nothing more than glorified anecdotes among the many other anecdotes shared by individuals trying the technology. Just as each individual can be messed with to warp the results gathered, so too can the group of individuals participating in the study be fooled with.

As for the fake video comment, that is entirely possible, but it is far too easy to spot those. If you have problems doing that, then I don't see it going any other way than you testing the technology to see if it works for you. Get some cheap EEG measuring device (even the Emotiv dev edition would work), get a white noise source, and get a 40Hz (or whatever frequency you'd like to test) track and see what happens to you. Try closing your eyes and calming your mind. What does that do? Get really anxious, then see where that puts you. Etc.

There is clearly more to this than the steady rhythm, though that plays a role. The frequency of that rhythm also seems to have an effect (40Hz waking you up, 4Hz putting you to sleep). Sometimes things seem so simple to me, I'm not sure what there is to argue about. Certain frequencies space me out to the point that I have difficulty typing, and others eliminate all hesitation and noise, and it's just steady progress.

7.83Hz (Schumann Resonance) is anti-mind control, and to take a position opposite my general stance on brainwave entrainment, that one doesn't seem to be doing a damn thing.

Another point is that many new things (brainwave entrainment not included) often aren't mature or well-known enough to have studies done on them. Or have been assessed (wrongly or rightly) as not being lucrative enough to justify funding related studies. It's at times like those where online communities such as this one shines, as everyone does a bit on their own then shares information that adds to or takes away from the credibility of the new technology/drug. Shines until the collective work done gets stolen brought to the masses by someone that was scouring for the next big thing.

Edited by Joel, 04 February 2013 - 09:00 PM.

[LBGSHI]

You sound very lazy.

Is that really relevant to the discussion? What I am is busy with real life, although if necessity drives something, one always finds time for it (so, certainly, some of my reason for not coordinating with a scientific institution to help disprove a theory promoted by someone else could be lack of motivation). More importantly, people have to weigh the potential gain with the time, effort, and money involved in any given task. If I put in the legwork here, and the most likely scenario occurs (binaural beats once again doesn't affect brainwaves, based on EEG), we will then have not two, but three studies establishing this. Will three studies somehow be more important and believable to you and other supporters of the theory of brainwave entrainment than two? I highly doubt it. You'll probably respond in a way similar to that which you've done below:

Studies, studies, studies, studies..

What exactly do studies prove? Yay, they eliminate and isolate variables. Sure, they add a certain amount of legitimacy to the thing studied, but at the end of the day I see them as nothing more than glorified anecdotes among the many other anecdotes shared by individuals trying the technology. Just as each individual can be messed with to warp the results gathered, so too can the group of individuals participating in the study be fooled with.

...which is to say, you're not interested in real science, just conjecture and anecdotal effects by humans highly susceptible to the placebo effect. Let's be clear here...are you against all studies, or just those that don't agree with your guesses and opinions? If you don't believe in studies, you don't believe in the very things that allowed us to understand the brain in the first place, which led to conjecture of things like brainwave entrainment. It's a juvenile approach that doesn't get us anywhere.

As for the fake video comment, that is entirely possible, but it is far too easy to spot those. If you have problems doing that, then I don't see it going any other way than you testing the technology to see if it works for you. Get some cheap EEG measuring device (even the Emotiv dev edition would work), get a white noise source, and get a 40Hz (or whatever frequency you'd like to test) track and see what happens to you. Try closing your eyes and calming your mind. What does that do? Get really anxious, then see where that puts you. Etc.

Perfectly reasonable. Also, if doing so, I must include non-binaural beats that sound identical to binaural beats, and have a friend re-title them and mix them up in such a way that he has a list of each and its corresponding frequency (or in the case of non-binaural beats, lack thereof), and I don't know which is which, to eliminate placebo. Perhaps this would be a quick way for me to personally verify the effects, before moving on to proper studies that the community at large can benefit from. Excellent suggestion.

There is clearly more to this than the steady rhythm, though that plays a role. The frequency of that rhythm also seems to have an effect (40Hz waking you up, 4Hz putting you to sleep). Sometimes things seem so simple to me, I'm not sure what there is to argue about. Certain frequencies space me out to the point that I have difficulty typing, and others eliminate all hesitation and noise, and it's just steady progress.

7.83Hz (Schumann Resonance) is anti-mind control, and to take a position opposite my general stance on brainwave entrainment, that one doesn't seem to be doing a damn thing.

Maybe your mind wasn't being controlled in the first place...thus, anti-mind-control couldn't negate an effect that wasn't occurring. Although, I don't really know what you mean by anti-mind control, so I'm just guessing this means a tone with the ability to resist attempts to control your mind...presumably by media/government/other "them" entities that people believe are attempting to control their minds...or a tone with the ability to counter specific things, like subliminal messaging.

Another point is that many new things (brainwave entrainment not included) often aren't mature or well-known enough to have studies done on them. Or have been assessed (wrongly or rightly) as not being lucrative enough to justify funding related studies. It's at times like those where online communities such as this one shines, and everyone does a bit on their own to add to (or take away from) the "underground" credibility of the new technology/drug/use. Shines until the collective work done gets stolen brought to the masses by someone that was scouring for the next big thing.

That's certainly plausible, but I don't think that's actually happened here at Longecity. We're certainly interested in plenty of things with inadequate funding and lack of interest by the general public, which later become increasingly popular and enter the mainstream to some extent (nootropics, for example), but usually Longecity members only become interested in any serious numbers when scientific research backs a given concept...and at the very least, when scientific understanding backs the actual theory behind a concept (brainwave entrainment goes against the scientific understanding of brainwaves). Unless I'm mistaken, Longecity isn't known for being a hotbed of randomly trying things that have no scientific backing, and claiming they work until there are finally studies enough to prove they do.

Edited by LBGSHI, 04 February 2013 - 09:09 PM.

[Heh]

Your perceived laziness regarding this matter is very relevant to the discussion, as it's putting a drain on me (and maybe others) to go around digging up information you can easily find yourself. I'm not sure if this is clear to you, but I'm not in this thread to prove to you that brainwave entrainment works.

I'm not against studies, I'm against your infatuation with them. I think studies are overvalued, and in grouping them with anecdotes I've stated clearly just how much weight I think they should be given. And that's before I go into studies influenced to go the way of those funding them, and studies that, as a group, defiantly disprove or prove some topic of interest, but then end up being defiantly disproven. Also, when it comes down to it, what matters more than studies is whether or not the studied technology/drug ends up helping you. 100 well-done studies proving the benefit of, say, fish oil, doesn't change the fact that it is absolutely useless for me. Sure, those studies have helped make clear that fish oil will generally work and has tested/measurable benefits, and that's great, but what's more important is me experiencing those benefits should I begin supplementation. If I do not experience the positives of fish oil, then you could throw a million studies in my face and it won't change my experience of having the supplement be absolutely worthless. Do you understand my point?

If brainwave entrainment is proven to, without a doubt, not work, then I'll accept that. But not really. Maybe I'll chalk up the benefits I experience to the placebo effect, or some other thing. It's hard to argue against the results I get (or that someone else fails to experience), though you can (possibly) re-attribute them to some other cause.

As for my mind control comment, that was made as I'm either going Schizophrenic (not likely, but it's an easy conclusion), or am being (electronically?) harassed and controlled everyday by sources unknown. I'm not normally a very suggestible person and I think (and consume) so little of the media that it has almost no effect on me. Closer to the point of this thread, certain frequencies leave the mind more open to suggestion than others, for example 10Hz and the lower theta/delta frequencies. This proves to be a good thing for things like hypnosis and affirmation tapes, but is clearly a bad thing when you begin to talk about others unknowingly moving a group to these frequencies to make them more susceptible to bullshit.

By the way, 40Hz entrainment 30 minutes a day has been said to help Schizophrenics.

Edited by Joel, 04 February 2013 - 09:48 PM.