12 replies to this topic

[TheFountain]

Can we gather some information on possible negative interactions between Resveratrol and other herbal supplements, or supplements in general?

So far my own Anecdotal experience shows a possible negative association when taking it with Ginko Biloba. Or it might have just been the Ginko itself causing a slight bit of Anxiety.

As far as unknowns go, my current method is to take Resveratrol in the morning, before anything else and with the other herbs, such as astragalus, I take them at the end of the day (at least 8-10 hours later).

SOD I still take about 4-5 hours after the resveratrol with so far no negative psychological effects to note.

And as far as I can tell, Ginseng seems to be fine when taken within a couple hours of Resveratrol. So Adaptogens seem okay with it.

Edited by TheFountain, 07 February 2013 - 04:28 AM.

[cuprous]

Why did you note "so far no negative psychological effects" in regards to SOD? Are there alleged down sides? I did a quick google and found nothing.

[maxwatt]

ginko is particularly rich in quercetin, one of whose metabolites is reported to inhibit some of resveratrols's effects, and there are some studies reporting quercetin too may do this. I think only traditional Chines medicine has a handle of mixing herbs for a particular effect, and even then most practitioners methods border on superstition. I'd not take more than one or two supplements regularly. If you want to add to the mix or a particular effect, start with low doses, noting the effects as you gradually ramp up the dose. Good luck.

[TheFountain]

Why did you note "so far no negative psychological effects" in regards to SOD? Are there alleged down sides? I did a quick google and found nothing.

It is based on anecdotal experience I had last year with some strange anxiety effect related to something that might have been interacting with Resveratrol or something else. I really have not yet isolated it yet, in all honesty. But I am taking it very very slow.

I'd not take more than one or two supplements regularly.

Wouldn't you be the exception to the rule of taking a high number of supplements on this forum?

[maxwatt]

...

I'd not take more than one or two supplements regularly.

Wouldn't you be the exception to the rule of taking a high number of supplements on this forum?

Let me qualify that; I refer largely to those supplements that can be called either xenobiotics or highly purified and unnaturally large doses of molecules that do occur in substances one might normally consume.

But my point is that too many supplement regimens I've seen offered here ("hey guys, what do you think of my stack") read like suicide notes. These things interact often in unpredictable and seldom desirable ways. Our goal should be to prolong and enhance life, not shorten or end it.

A good number of the members are quite cautious what they take, and how they combine these things.

[platypus]

ginko is particularly rich in quercetin, one of whose metabolites is reported to inhibit some of resveratrols's effects, and there are some studies reporting quercetin too may do this. I think only traditional Chines medicine has a handle of mixing herbs for a particular effect, and even then most practitioners methods border on superstition. I'd not take more than one or two supplements regularly. If you want to add to the mix or a particular effect, start with low doses, noting the effects as you gradually ramp up the dose. Good luck.

How come LEF puts quercetin in their reveratrol-supplements then? There must be a rationale for doing that.

[Kevnzworld]

I think that it is better to take a polyphenol mixture with lower doses of each. There is a long history of use of the major and most studied substances with little or no toxicity shown. Everybody is different and starting out lower and slow is always prudent. There is hardly a supplement in existence that someone on this forum hasn't posted a negative reaction to. I haven't seen anything to indicate that ingesting modest amounts ( mg's ) of any of the popular polyphenols could " shorten or end " life, but much that indicates or shows the opposite.
Regarding quercetin affecting the bioavailability of resveratrol , quote : " Quercetin 500 mg twice daily or 5% alcohol 100 mL did not influence trans-resveratrol pharmacokinetics. "
http://www.ingentaco...000007/art00003
I take 200 mg of t-resveratrol , 500 mg of quercetin , 500 mg GTE, 200 mg GSE, 500 mg curcumin and 500 mg milk thistle/ silymarin daily with meals. I have never had any negative reaction.

[TheFountain]

I have to agree with the above poster, I am a little surprised at the alarming nature of what Maxwatt posted. I am not saying anxiety cannot be caused by certain admixtures of supplements but most of these natural compounds would already have been found to be lethal in combination if they were. I do think it is best to separate supplementation as needed into time slots during the day, to ensure less of a likelihood of interaction.

[maxwatt]

I have to agree with the above poster, I am a little surprised at the alarming nature of what Maxwatt posted. I am not saying anxiety cannot be caused by certain admixtures of supplements but most of these natural compounds would already have been found to be lethal in combination if they were. I do think it is best to separate supplementation as needed into time slots during the day, to ensure less of a likelihood of interaction.

That would depend on the individual pharmokinetics of each substance. If you don't know what you're messing with, don't mess with it. Some here are knowledgeable enough to use combinations, but most thing they are alchemists making gold from lead.

WRT to quercetin and resveratrol, some of their effects are directly opposed.

[TheFountain]

I have to agree with the above poster, I am a little surprised at the alarming nature of what Maxwatt posted. I am not saying anxiety cannot be caused by certain admixtures of supplements but most of these natural compounds would already have been found to be lethal in combination if they were. I do think it is best to separate supplementation as needed into time slots during the day, to ensure less of a likelihood of interaction.

That would depend on the individual pharmokinetics of each substance. If you don't know what you're messing with, don't mess with it. Some here are knowledgeable enough to use combinations, but most thing they are alchemists making gold from lead.

WRT to quercetin and resveratrol, some of their effects are directly opposed.

Caution is indeed warranted, but my point is that some of us here tend to be a little over-alarmist. If these substances were that dangerous we would have known about it by now.

When I started this thread I was hoping for some data (or even some first hand experience). Not speculation.

Edited by TheFountain, 17 February 2013 - 04:59 AM.

[maxwatt]

That no such data has come to light might be because there is no such data. If such unfavorable interactions exist they evidently are a rarity.

[mikeinnaples]

But my point is that too many supplement regimens I've seen offered here ("hey guys, what do you think of my stack") read like suicide notes. These things interact often in unpredictable and seldom desirable ways. Our goal should be to prolong and enhance life, not shorten or end it.

A good number of the members are quite cautious what they take, and how they combine these things.

I agree with both comments completely and I am probably an example of this first despite thinking I am one of the second type you mentioned. Which leads to why I am quoting and responding.....

Part of the problem is that there is simply too much information, too little organization of that information, and too much conflicting information. Add in that we have people that misunderstand, misinterpret, or simply make poor choices... and it is no small wonder that this is the case. I have been following this community for nearly 6 years and life extension as a whole for a decade. It is one of my 'passions' to extend my health span and to live long enough to reach escape velocity. I am a smart guy (NASA doesn't employ stupid software engineers). I have more life experience than most people of any age, let alone my own age, and that gives me no small amount of common sense. I am well rounded mentally, physically, and have no disillusions about the reality of who I am as a person.

Can I make 'smarter' decisions about my health than the average person given all of what I said? Yes. Do I feel confident that -all- of my decisions I make are the best, right, or even 'safe' long term? Hell no. I don't have the expertise, knowledge, and understanding that some of our posters here *do* have. Fortunately we have some very smart people here, some of which that are subject matter experts in some areas, that spend a whole hell of a lot of time putting factual information and educated opinions out there for us to consume. Unfortunately, there is so much of it, that it becomes nearly impossible to consume for the average person.

Even if we could take all available information, categorize it, and make it easily accessible there would still be so much uncertainty. This is why we need large scale funding and support on a global scale to broaden our understanding of ourselves, how we work, and how we can influence it for the common good.

[hav]

I couldn't find any studies about the interaction of resveratrol and ginkgo but I did find a couple that found some positive and negative synergistic interaction between resveratrol and quercetin.

Resveratrol and quercetin interact to inhibit neointimal hyperplasia in mice with a carotid injury

Compared with the controls, R significantly decreased stenosis, assessed as an intima:media ratio, by 76%. Although Q treatment alone exhibited no effect, it potentiated the effect of R in that treatment with R + Q significantly decreased the intima:media ratio by 94%. Moreover, this effect was greater than that of R treatment alone (P < 0.05). Although treatments with R, Q, and R + Q significantly affected platelet activation and endothelial function, the responses observed for R + Q were less than additive. Specifically, the effects of R + Q were less than the sum of effects for treatments with R and Q alone. In contrast, treatment with R + Q exhibited more-than-additive effects on inflammatory markers and significant interactions between R and Q were observed.

So, positive synergy treating stenosis and as an anti-inflamatory. And negative synergy for platelet activation and endothelial function. The other one below postulates positive synergy for anticancer effects.

Ellagic acid and quercetin interact synergistically with resveratrol in the induction of apoptosis and cause transient cell cycle arrest in human leukemia cells.

Results showed a more than additive interaction for the combination of ellagic acid with resveratrol and furthermore, significant alterations in cell cycle kinetics induced by single compounds and combinations were observed. An isobolographic analysis was performed to assess the apparent synergistic interaction for the combinations of ellagic acid with resveratrol and quercetin with resveratrol in the induction of caspase 3 activity, confirming a synergistic interaction with a combination index of 0.64 for the combination of ellagic acid and resveratrol and 0.68 for quercetin and resveratrol. Results indicate that the anticarcinogenic potential of foods containing polyphenols may not be based on the effects of individual compounds, but may involve a synergistic enhancement of the anticancer effects.

Howard

Edited by hav, 03 March 2013 - 02:54 AM.