95 replies to this topic

[chris106]

I'm also getting ready to cycle off the Bacopa as well for a couple of reasons.

Could you elaborate a bit more on the reasons why you want to cycle off it? (Only if it is convenient for you, of course)

I'm just asking because I was thinking of adding it to my stack. There are a few other candidates as well though, and I'm still indecisive - so I'm trying to gather as much information / experience-reports about it as I can right now.

[xsiv1]

I'm also getting ready to cycle off the Bacopa as well for a couple of reasons.

Could you elaborate a bit more on the reasons why you want to cycle off it? (Only if it is convenient for you, of course)

I'm just asking because I was thinking of adding it to my stack. There are a few other candidates as well though, and I'm still indecisive - so I'm trying to gather as much information / experience-reports about it as I can right now.

Yes, in a sense I can elaborate. Firstly, I always cycle off (normally with a taper) all nootropics when I feel they've either run their course or I want to move onto something else. Normally my cycles last between 3 and 6 months depending on the compound. For Bacopa, it was merely because I'd been using it for 6 months approximately and I'm not experiencing the effects I once did, coupled with my concerns about thyroid or liver demands while I'm using other compounds. My last trial was with Noopept for 2.5-3 mths and discontinued due to increased agitation and because 3 months was the game plan. Currently, I'm using the CILTEP stack and will either use it less consistently than 5 days a week or run it for only 60 days. I haven't really experienced any notable side effects with my use of Bacopa except for perhaps morning grogginess in the first few weeks of use.

[Pancakevinny]

Still using Sulbutiamine daily , renfr?
You mentioned your dopamine stack on the first or second page of this thread (one with tyrosine, uridine etc.)
Could you elaborate on the dosage of the supplements in your dopamine stack? Thank you!

[machete234]

I started to like sulbutiamine pretty much right away, I guess the best thing is to not see it as a stimulant but as something that chases bad moods away.
To get the mood brightening effect I only have to dose very very low, around 100mg or less.
In my oppinion its more something like a brain vitamine than a stimulant, if you want it to bee a stimulant you have to dose high and you get side effects.

I especially like the combination of aniracetam + sulbutiamine, something around half your aniracetam dose and 100mg of sulbutiamine.
For me this is like 150mg aniracetam+ 50-100mg sulbutiamine.

I dont do it too often though because Im never sure if Im doing myself something good or something bad, it sure feels good and is without any comedowns, rebounds etc.

When ani makes you lazy and flattens your emotions this tiny bit of sulbutiamine helps.
BTW this posting is brought to you by procrastination and the ani+sulb combo.

[chris106]

Still using Sulbutiamine daily , renfr?
You mentioned your dopamine stack on the first or second page of this thread (one with tyrosine, uridine etc.)
Could you elaborate on the dosage of the supplements in your dopamine stack? Thank you!

I too would be very interested in that

[stephen_b]

Well, most things that upregulate receptors will cause negative effects while you take them. The idea is that you suffer for a while, but then can enjoy days of stability when you need them (but you'll have to keep cycling in order to prevent a return to homeostasis). I prefer this method, since the key advantage is that you're making yourself more sensitive to your normal levels of neurotransmitters. This has the advantage over agonists/reuptake inhibitors of lasting until downregulation (which can be prevented), whereas normal medication such as Ritalin have fairly short lives, with the effects diminishing rapidly as they are excreted. Downregulation will take at least several days (sometimes weeks) to happen at perceptible levels (at least for dopamine, some receptors up/down regulate fairly fast, but still no faster than over a period of 2 days).

So what you'd have to do to get those effects would be to at first take the antagonist daily for several weeks, so that the brain would upregulate the affected receptors. After that, cycles of week-on/week-off will allow you to keep the effects, and actually feel them for an entire week (or it can be staggered more frequently, like every other day, the key is to not spend more than a week off without at least several days on).

Great post.

I wonder if the lessons learned from the low dose naltrexone (LDN) protocol might help here. LDN briefly blocks opioid receptors, and homeostasis then causes an increase in those receptors. The dose is much lower than that required for a long duration blockade, and this low dose hits the sweet spot to maximize receptor density.

LDN is administered typically between 9-11 pm so that it starts its blockade at the point in the circadian rhythm when endorphin production is highest. The blockade lasts about 2 hours.

So, if the lessons from the LDN protocol were to carry over, one would take a low dose of sulbutiamine at the time of day that dopamine production was highest, just long enough to cause a temporary blockade. Taken this way, there might be no need to cycle. Timing and dosage would need to be determined.

From PMID 18057326, "the rhythm of dopamine peaks during the day". I would imagine first thing in the morning in the transition to waking up? For dose I really don't know, but trying low and increasing might be a good choice. To give it a fair shot of working this way, enough time for homeostasis to upregulate D1 dopamine receptors would be needed.

[rc897]

have been on it mostly since February this year; couple of days off here and there but mainly steady. Found zero attrition, I will try tomorrow with just sulbut just to see.

Found that low dosages work well for me 250-275mg x2 day stacked with Aniractam 750mg x 2
Noopept (10-12mg day) has been cycled every second month. No choline. I can actually feel it kick in the mornings.

Sensitive to high dosages of all nootropics, and with Sulbut. Anything over 800mg I tend to very aggressive (one time laughing at my self freaking out in traffic) and frustrate very easily.

A gemini scale helped to get dosages to +- 2mg, and a diary of detailed dosages and experiments really helped dial in the perfect dosage for me. Noopept was the same, at 20mg I am way overstimulated but at 12mg a day I look forward to the month on.

Oh and I don't really bother with the fat- I actually notice it last much longer without a fat source in the mornings. But if I have a half a bagel with butter it seems to reduce the strength.
I think I read a study showing half life longer sans fat?

Edited by rc897, 12 August 2013 - 05:29 AM.

[BlueCloud]

Amazing that you are all getting such strong effects from it. I tried it years ago ( Arcalion was/is freely available in pharmacies here without a prescription ) for a week or so, and just got zero effects from it. Nada. Even going up to some ridiculously high dosage, no side-effects, no nothing...

[xsiv1]

Amazing that you are all getting such strong effects from it. I tried it years ago ( Arcalion was/is freely available in pharmacies here without a prescription ) for a week or so, and just got zero effects from it. Nada. Even going up to some ridiculously high dosage, no side-effects, no nothing...

For me, any effect subsides within days while retaining the dose of 200mgs. Sporadic use works for me at the very best. It takes at least a week off nowadays for me to notice any discernible effect from it. Could be that I'm actually optimally topped up with the entire range of B vitamins. Idk at this point.

[stephen_b]

I have a nice effect from 25mg, similar to coffee but without the jitters. I measure 50 mg of the pill contents (half is filler, making 25 mg sulbutiamine) into a tablespoon of olive oil first thing in the morning. I started with twice that yesterday, and I found it a bit too much. In olive oil the taste is quite bearable. I wonder if too many people are taking it without oil.

My goal is to get a couple of hours of DA receptor blockade, allowing the rest of the day to be blockade free, and I suspect that it might take 3-4 weeks to really see some effects.

[BlueCloud]

Well I decided to give Sulbutiamine another try. Went to a local pharmacy and got a box of 60 pills dosed at 200mg. I forgot how damn expensive it was here !
I will start my trial tomorrow, probably with 600mg at once.

[BlueCloud]

So, I took 600mg this morning at breakfast, with a small portion of salmon in olive oil ( for the fats ).
Well, contrary to my previous experience with Sulbutiamine a few years ago, I can definitely feel something happening this time. Two hours after breakfast, I feel very pissed-off, and irritated, for no reason. I'm also getting a slight headache (and I'm usually almost never subject to headaches )

The sensation is not unlike what I get sometimes from L-Tyrosine. Tyrosine is very hit-or-miss for me. Sometimes it gives me a nice and sustained feeling of mental energy and motivation, enough to get me out of the procrastination cycles that I often fall into, sometimes it just makes me angry and irritated all day, and sometimes it just does nothing at all.

There are a couple of reasons why I think Sulbutiamine is having an effect this time :
- The first time I tried it a few years ago, I wasn't aware that it was fat-soluble, and I took it on empty stomach with water.
- Possible interaction with other supplements. I only had Sulbutiamine today, but for the last week I've been taking 250mg of CDP-Choline ( wich is supposed to be increasing dopaminergic receptors density ), and 500mg of L-Tyrosine yesterday. These probably prepared me to be more receptive to Sulbutiamine's upregulating effects on the D receptors..

Now , feeling pissed-off and headaches isn't exactly a desirable effect to me... so for the upcoming days I'll just lower my dosage to 400mg and see what difference it makes.

[machete234]

There are a couple of reasons why I think Sulbutiamine is having an effect this time :
- The first time I tried it a few years ago, I wasn't aware that it was fat-soluble, and I took it on empty stomach with water.
- Possible interaction with other supplements. I only had Sulbutiamine today, but for the last week I've been taking 250mg of CDP-Choline ( wich is supposed to be increasing dopaminergic receptors density ), and 500mg of L-Tyrosine yesterday. These probably prepared me to be more receptive to Sulbutiamine's upregulating effects on the D receptors..

I think you are correct that CDP-Choline and other similar supplements have a direct influence and also 600mg is a fairly high dose of sulbuthiamine.

Agressiveness, rage and irritability can be one side of hypomania at least thats what I read in the last few days.
Other people might react to the same thing with euphoria and a lot of drive.

I had a similar experience with CDP and armodafinil, CDP alone is kind of nice but together the irritability was potentiated.
Same could happen with Sulbutiamine+CDP or anything that could cause hypomania.
That said irritability is a common side effect of modafinil.

The lesson for me is to mess around with less drugs

Edited by machete234, 08 September 2013 - 03:37 PM.

[BlueCloud]

It's kind of ironic that i went from zero effect on my last trial to a full blown experience this time. Anyway , it pretty much ruined my day, felt grumpy the whole afternoon and quite depressed as well. I'm impressed ( in a bad way...)
I will take no more than 200mg for the next days.

[xsiv1]

I was going to say that 600 sounded like a hefty dose when you'd probably get something decent from 200. I've still never exceeded 400mgs in a single dose and never felt the need to, but again, I'm using it maybe twice a week... Mostly as a pick-me-up mid afternoon with some Krill oil. Other days, if required, I'll use ALCAR or some NALT with a B & C complex vitamin. Usually low dose since I don't want to overdo my B vits. Let us know how it's coming along. For me, if I use it too regularly, I simply don't feel the effects regardless of what it may actually be doing in my body. I don't feel anything positive or negative. With some decent breaks in between days of use, it feels like it's supposed to each and every time, but that's only my experience with it.

Edited by xsiv1, 09 September 2013 - 11:41 PM.

[kevers]

It's kind of ironic that i went from zero effect on my last trial to a full blown experience this time. Anyway , it pretty much ruined my day, felt grumpy the whole afternoon and quite depressed as well. I'm impressed ( in a bad way...)
I will take no more than 200mg for the next days.

yeah 200 is probably around a good dose

[BlueCloud]

A little update on the last few days, before my memory fades..

The first day on Sulbutiamine , as described in my last post, ended up in feeling quite depressed after a full day of irritation and grumpiness. .

The next day, I took 400mg at breakfast ( always with something fatty, either yoghourt, or some cooked salmon sparkled with Olive Oil). The irritation and depressive feelings of past day quickly subsided in the next hours, to be replaced with a feeling of sustained mental energy, not the anxious kind of energy, but rather more a calmer and focused sensation. And the feeling of being more awake, more than usual. Overall it reminded me of what I got sometimes from Schisandra ( on the rare occasions it worked), a kind of gentle "lift" throughout the day. The feeling is quite clean, no tremors or jitters like on coffee or certain stimulating ADs.

For the sake of keeping any other substances from interfering with my experience, I didn't take anything that night for my chronic insomnia ( a condition i've been dealing with for more than a decade, only helped by antihistamines, see this thread and this one ). As expected , my sleep was very light, with numerous awakenings during night. I probably got only 5 or 6 hours of sleep overall.
Usually after a night like this, I'm pretty much a zombie for the whole day ( completely brain-fogged, need to lie down regularly for a few minutes, need to nap constantly, feeling very weak physically, no motivation, etc..). However, after 400mg that morning, I felt noticeably more resistant to fatigue through the whole day, my attention was sustained more than usual, my body didn't feel as weak physically as expected, etc..
Not that it erased all effects of my usual insomnia aftermath, I still felt the lack of decent sleep, and the usual tiredness, but it did made me more resistant to it, I just didn't crash as I would. I think '"resistance" is the right word, not a feeling of being "pushed" or nervous energy.
Needless to say, I was quite impressed ( in a good way this time ). Usually, almost nothing helps the following day if my night was really bad.
I decided on not taking anything that night. Crashed in bed and fell asleep quickly, but the night wasn't any better. Very light sleep, constant awakenings, etc..

The next day I felt even more exhausted from the lack of sleep. I took 400mg at breakfast, then another 200mg with lunch.
I was pretty much expecting to spend the day mostly crashing on the couch ( luckily, I work from home most of the time ), but amazingly enough I didn't.. I was able to cope with most things, both physically and intellectually, although I still needed a short 40 minute nap at mid-day. I could also feel that my mood was slightly brighter during the last days.
I decided that night to take 7.5mg of Doxylamine ( sold here OTC as "Donormyl" ), a dose that is usually enough to get me through the night if my insomnia isn't amplified by something else. However It had very little effect, I could feel that the Sulbutiamine was indeed worsening my insomnia more than usual, although not by much.

The day after I was really exhausted, and despite another 400mg of Sulbutiamine, I could feel that I was reaching the limits of what my body and mind could endure just before crashing. Yet I was able again to function thru the day, and I really didin't expect that, because I don't think It ever happened before ( I usually just fall sick with symptoms of flu, and crash in bed the whole day ).
That day I had to leave home and meet some people. While I could feel the Sulbutiamine acting like a crutch to my exhaustion, it was a "clean" feeling, without lows and downs. I also noticed something described in a post earlier by "Renfr" , I felt a bit more at ease with people I didn't know. Not exactly more outgoing, just less nervous, a bit more confident, my mind felt less scattered during conversations.
I could describe that boost of confidence as a consequence of feeling more focused, despite the overwhelming quantity of stimulus I get exposed to during a hectic day in Paris. My mind stayed "centered".

At the end of that day, my body and mind were screaming for a real night sleep, so I decided to go for a full dose of 15mg Doxylamine. I didn't take any Sulbutiamine this morning, and I feel more rested.
So, I'm going to take a few days break, get enough sleep, before I restart the Sulbutiamine experience while taking my usual doses of anthistamines at night to make sure I'm not pushing myself over the limits with Sulb. I will be also introducing some L-Tyrosine and CDP-Choline with it.

To summarize :
- Nice, clean effect of sustained mental energy, in a calm and constant way rather than nervous or jittery.
- Feelings of being more awake.
- More focus, more "centered", wich leads also to a sensation of feeling a bit more confident socially.
- Worsening of insomnia.
- No sensation of "dilated time" as described by a few people in this thread.
- Didn't notice any effect on memory, although the last day it was pretty bad, due to the cumulative nights of insomnia.
- No tolerance effect whatsoever, despite taking it for 5 days in a row.

This thing gets a thumbs up in my book. One of the very very few things I've tried in my life that had any sort of positive effects.

Edited by BlueCloud, 13 September 2013 - 01:56 PM.

[machete234]

Not sure if CDP Aniracetam and Sulb is a good combo, today I had a headache and a stiff neck.

Could be anything though since I also started creatine (2-5g a day) and I also take bacopa in the evening.
Trying out too many drugs syndrome once again.

I dont know if I have written that somewhere before but Sulbutiamine doesnt seem stimulating for me in low doses but affects mostly my mood (positively) which is a bit like the light gets brighter kind of like the clouds break open and the sun suddenly shines through.
I know thats a weird way to describe this but physically I feel nothing from sulbutiamine unlike from coffee where I can feel a blood pressure raise.

Edited by machete234, 13 September 2013 - 08:55 PM.

[xsiv1]

A little update on the last few days, before my memory fades..

The first day on Sulbutiamine , as described in my last post, ended up in feeling quite depressed after a full day of irritation and grumpiness. .

The next day, I took 400mg at breakfast ( always with something fatty, either yoghourt, or some cooked salmon sparkled with Olive Oil). The irritation and depressive feelings of past day quickly subsided in the next hours, to be replaced with a feeling of sustained mental energy, not the anxious kind of energy, but rather more a calmer and focused sensation. And the feeling of being more awake, more than usual. Overall it reminded me of what I got sometimes from Schisandra ( on the rare occasions it worked), a kind of gentle "lift" throughout the day. The feeling is quite clean, no tremors or jitters like on coffee or certain stimulating ADs.

For the sake of keeping any other substances from interfering with my experience, I didn't take anything that night for my chronic insomnia ( a condition i've been dealing with for more than a decade, only helped by antihistamines, see this thread and this one ). As expected , my sleep was very light, with numerous awakenings during night. I probably got only 5 or 6 hours of sleep overall.
Usually after a night like this, I'm pretty much a zombie for the whole day ( completely brain-fogged, need to lie down regularly for a few minutes, need to nap constantly, feeling very weak physically, no motivation, etc..). However, after 400mg that morning, I felt noticeably more resistant to fatigue through the whole day, my attention was sustained more than usual, my body didn't feel as weak physically as expected, etc..
Not that it erased all effects of my usual insomnia aftermath, I still felt the lack of decent sleep, and the usual tiredness, but it did made me more resistant to it, I just didn't crash as I would. I think '"resistance" is the right word, not a feeling of being "pushed" or nervous energy.
Needless to say, I was quite impressed ( in a good way this time ). Usually, almost nothing helps the following day if my night was really bad.
I decided on not taking anything that night. Crashed in bed and fell asleep quickly, but the night wasn't any better. Very light sleep, constant awakenings, etc..

The next day I felt even more exhausted from the lack of sleep. I took 400mg at breakfast, then another 200mg with lunch.
I was pretty much expecting to spend the day mostly crashing on the couch ( luckily, I work from home most of the time ), but amazingly enough I didn't.. I was able to cope with most things, both physically and intellectually, although I still needed a short 40 minute nap at mid-day. I could also feel that my mood was slightly brighter during the last days.
I decided that night to take 7.5mg of Doxylamine ( sold here OTC as "Donormyl" ), a dose that is usually enough to get me through the night if my insomnia isn't amplified by something else. However It had very little effect, I could feel that the Sulbutiamine was indeed worsening my insomnia more than usual, although not by much.

The day after I was really exhausted, and despite another 400mg of Sulbutiamine, I could feel that I was reaching the limits of what my body and mind could endure just before crashing. Yet I was able again to function thru the day, and I really didin't expect that, because I don't think It ever happened before ( I usually just fall sick with symptoms of flu, and crash in bed the whole day ).
That day I had to leave home and meet some people. While I could feel the Sulbutiamine acting like a crutch to my exhaustion, it was a "clean" feeling, without lows and downs. I also noticed something described in a post earlier by "Renfr" , I felt a bit more at ease with people I didn't know. Not exactly more outgoing, just less nervous, a bit more confident, my mind felt less scattered during conversations.
I could describe that boost of confidence as a consequence of feeling more focused, despite the overwhelming quantity of stimulus I get exposed to during a hectic day in Paris. My mind stayed "centered".

At the end of that day, my body and mind were screaming for a real night sleep, so I decided to go for a full dose of 15mg Doxylamine. I didn't take any Sulbutiamine this morning, and I feel more rested.
So, I'm going to take a few days break, get enough sleep, before I restart the Sulbutiamine experience while taking my usual doses of anthistamines at night to make sure I'm not pushing myself over the limits with Sulb. I will be also introducing some L-Tyrosine and CDP-Choline with it.

To summarize :
- Nice, clean effect of sustained mental energy, in a calm and constant way rather than nervous or jittery.
- Feelings of being more awake.
- More focus, more "centered", wich leads also to a sensation of feeling a bit more confident socially.
- Worsening of insomnia.
- No sensation of "dilated time" as described by a few people in this thread.
- Didn't notice any effect on memory, although the last day it was pretty bad, due to the cumulative nights of insomnia.
- No tolerance effect whatsoever, despite taking it for 5 days in a row.

This thing gets a thumbs up in my book. One of the very very few things I've tried in my life that had any sort of positive effects.

I don't think any of these positive effects will "be felt" for very long in my experience. I certainly hope they do continue to exhibit these for you. I've dealt with crippling insomnia many years ago and it took at least a dozen different meds until I finally found one that killed insomnia in about 1 week. Elavil of all the ones worked. Terrible side effects BUT it allowed me to sleep normally again. As the side effects were getting out of control for me (I was younger and didn't want to lose my hair which was falling out, not to mention the weight gain)..I was switch out to Clomipramine and surprisingly that worked with less side effects. I've tried Trazadone (no effect really - fragile sleep if any), Remeron (zombified me during every waking moment and sleep was a bit deeper than Trazadone) and a bunch of other SSRI's. My sleep is pretty normal today and I average 7 hrs to 7.5.

[BlueCloud]

So, has anyone been taking Sulbutiamine long enough ( a few weeks maybe ) then stopping it, to verify its supposed upregulating effects on dopamine receptors ? Did you feel a positive difference once you have stopped it ?

Unfortunately I haven't been able to sustain it more than a few days in a row because of the terrible insomnia it causes, even at smaller doses. I've only been able to take it episodically like 3 days maximum before having to get a few days break to get some sleep. I guess that's not long enough to really upregulate receptors.

Edited by BlueCloud, 15 November 2013 - 09:54 AM.

[GetOutOfBox]

So, has anyone been taking Sulbutiamine long enough ( a few weeks maybe ) then stopping it, to verify its supposed upregulating effects on dopamine receptors ? Did you feel a positive difference once you have stopped it ?

Unfortunately I haven't been able to sustain it more than a few days in a row because of the terrible insomnia it causes, even at smaller doses. I've only been able to take it episodically like 3 days maximum before having to get a few days break to get some sleep. I guess that's not long enough to really upregulate receptors.

I dropped it from my stack, both because the studies on it are pretty "meh" when you review them all (some find modest positive effects, while others found none compared to placebo), and because I found that after the initial excitement/placebo, I really wasn't feeling much from it (and that was after 30 days, and taken with fatty meals).

I suspect that it's simply a B-Vitamin that more effectively penetrates the blood-brain-barrier, and hence in those with a deficiency (possibly due to malabsorption or dietary deficiency), it effectively corrects levels in the CNS (whereas the standard form may take longer to accumulate). This would make sense, as a slight deficiency could produce dopaminergic issues, that would be alleviated if the deficiency was corrected.

[BlueCloud]

So, has anyone been taking Sulbutiamine long enough ( a few weeks maybe ) then stopping it, to verify its supposed upregulating effects on dopamine receptors ? Did you feel a positive difference once you have stopped it ?

Answering myself, a few weeks ago I kept taking sulbutiamine for almost two weeks, then stopped, and started L-Tyrosine. I didn't feel that Tyrosine's effects were more enhanced than usual... Then again , maybe two weeks of Sulbutiamine weren't enough to create upregulation of the D receptors..

[lammas2]

So, has anyone been taking Sulbutiamine long enough ( a few weeks maybe ) then stopping it, to verify its supposed upregulating effects on dopamine receptors ? Did you feel a positive difference once you have stopped it ?

Answering myself, a few weeks ago I kept taking sulbutiamine for almost two weeks, then stopped, and started L-Tyrosine. I didn't feel that Tyrosine's effects were more enhanced than usual... Then again , maybe two weeks of Sulbutiamine weren't enough to create upregulation of the D receptors..

What was your dose?
Did you take it with food?

[Sciencyst]

It's more active at doses of 6g and up, but it is WAAAY too expensive for daily use at such doses. The understanding of its mechanism is severely limited by a lack of studies, and it obviously has different effects than just thiamine. I am sure it is tickling some receptors or transporters but the studies to show which ones just arent there! At least one person stated its a weak dopamine reuptake inhibitor, but this is clearly not the case. I know it alters cholinergic neurotransmission and whatnot, but thats not enough. I mean does it even break down into thiamine in the brain? If not how does it work? I need a SAR or something.

Also it down regulates kainate receptors, which sounds sketchy to me.

Can anyone explain its possible mechanism better than what the current literature states?

Edited by katuskoti, 13 December 2013 - 03:10 AM.

[rc897]

I think its great with aniracetam. Take it at 250mg twice a day, do not like it alone- makes me grouchy. Been on it since spring and effects seem to be cemented in - more social, tend to be introverted extrovert- if that makes sense and this has really helped me more outgoing.
I also- now I don't know or can attribute to the Sul. but I feel more patient- fit hitting shan is no problem now- and I have always had a issue with taking things emotionally but seem to be getting more Machiavellian. tenting my fingers more too. - again don't know if its the noots or what.

Edited by rc897, 13 December 2013 - 04:12 AM.

[Strangelove]

Searching on line about sulbutiamine, it seems its one of the favorites of Dave Asprey's together with aniracetam and phenylpiracetam, not sure though if he uses all of them in a combo. Although looking a video from him, he said that at that specific time was on an aniracetam - phenylpiracetam combo and feeling great.

Edited by Strangelove, 07 March 2014 - 08:43 PM.

[machete234]

I actually combined it with aniracetam, just threw the 5g of sulbutiamine into my last 15or so g of aniracetam and took it together for a while no complications with that combination.
I found sulbutiamine less stimulating than simply mood altering but I also prefered to dose lower than most people here.

[Strangelove]

I think its great with aniracetam. Take it at 250mg twice a day, do not like it alone- makes me grouchy. Been on it since spring and effects seem to be cemented in - more social, tend to be introverted extrovert- if that makes sense and this has really helped me more outgoing.
I also- now I don't know or can attribute to the Sul. but I feel more patient- fit hitting shan is no problem now- and I have always had a issue with taking things emotionally but seem to be getting more Machiavellian. tenting my fingers more too. - again don't know if its the noots or what.

Rc897, do you take 500mg everyday? How many months approximately?

[xsiv1]

I tried 600mgs on Monday for the first time. It's been my highest dose and I was looking for some more alertness and perhaps a mood bump. Unfortunately, despite very sporadic use, it ended up making me a just a little irritable but nothing crazy. Of course, I can't say for sure that it was the Sulbutiamine to blame. I took it with my lunch consisting of an egg salad wrap, a very small portion of bean salad, a couple krill oil caps and about 800mgs of Aniracetam.

One thing that I definitely noticed is that for the first time, in ages, I had some difficulty falling asleep. It took me over an hour to feel the dip into sleep even after getting out of bed. It's really a hit or miss supplement for me as well.I still like it as the occasional use mood lift and feeling of mental energy.

Edited by xsiv1, 07 March 2014 - 10:52 PM.

[Godof Smallthings]

It works better for me when I take it separately from aniracetam.