45 replies to this topic

[Missjess]

Blimitless i do believe I have glutamate excitotoxicity from iboga use too...I have purchased the products that Spectre suggested however I have been researching them and doesn't Glycine make glutamate even higher? Correct me if I'm wrong but I just need to understand this before I start taking it!

[formergenius]

No, not IIRC; glycine acts as an agonist at the glycine site of the NMDA receptor (for which glutamate is indeed an endogenous ligand). It should enhance NMDAR activity though.
Glycine is pretty benign stuff; I wouldn't worry about it.

[Missjess]

Ok well I just wana make sure it's not going to excite the glutamate receptor because I deff have too much if it now and that's what iboga does it excites the glutamate receptor for long period of time which caused the bad reaction

[formergenius]

Well the NMDAR is a glutamatergic receptor, however Iboga, as I understand it, is an NMDAR antagonist, hence excitation may be what you're looking for. Then again, that antagonism may have caused for upregulation leading to more activity now, so it's really hard to say "definitely" in this case. In any case, glycinergic agonism of the NMDAR shouldn't cause excitotoxicity like direct agonism would.

[Missjess]

Yes well I think that's wat happened, they were just overused for so long and it turned toxic. So I guess wat I rlly want to know is will the glycine counteract this or actually encourage the reaction even more....I rlly don't know shit about receptors and neuro transmitters and do not want to make my situation even worse

[Avoid and repair DXM damag]

DXM BRAIN DAMAGE

PERIACTIN- CYPROHEPTADINE, over the counter. Counter drug for serotonin toxicity/syndrom

Iam not a specialist, this is just data. People have claimed it reverses the dissociation and helps repair damage over days of taking it CYPROHEPTADINE, . Get over the counter doxylamine succinate if you cant get valium or get valerian root. Doxylamine is an effective sedative to calm tremors ect.
Develop a rehabilitation/nutritional support program: vitamin B complex for physical and mental stress, Amino acid mixes for brain reparation, racetams, nootropics and L-Tyrosine for mental alertness and cognitive function, fish oil. avoid l tryptophan, 5-htp AND DO NOT EVER USE ANTIDEPRESSANTS. Good diet, exercise. Do the research on forums like these and like it says on the hitchikers guide to the galaxy DO NOT PANIC. Anxiety increases blood pressure, brain pressure. This will get better, even if there is 'brain damage' it can repair or if our bodys and there bits and pieces couldnt repair we would all be fucking dead. Breath relax, your just passing through a shitty road and dont ever take more then 500mg of dxm in one month if you ever do use again. No drug dose is safe you can react in numerous ways and die. Maybe time to deal with the real issues in your life and overcome them and recognise your problems arnt permanent there just that, problems to fix. Dont be another one of our human family that got beaten by the bullshit pressures of life. learn to see your life different as a challenge not some overwhelming thing to escape to drugs from, drug abuse is shit, I think you might be understanding this.
Below is stuff I pulled from the web

JESUS BLESS YOU ALL



Antidote: Cyproheptadine — If benzodiazepines and supportive care fail to improve agitation and correct vital signs, we suggest antidotal therapy with cyproheptadine [17]. Cyproheptadine is a histamine-1 receptor antagonist with nonspecific 5-HT1A and 5-HT2A antagonistic properties [17]. It also has weak anticholinergic activity.
Cyproheptadine is available in 4 mg tablets or 2 mg/5 mL syrup [9]. When administered as an antidote for serotonin syndrome, an initial dose of 12 mg is recommended, followed by 2 mg every two hours until clinical response is seen. Cyproheptadine is only available in an oral form, but it may be crushed and given through a nasogastric or orogastric tube.
Cyproheptadine may lead to sedation, but this effect is consistent with the goals of management [1]. Furthermore, as a nonspecific serotonin antagonist, cyproheptadine may produce transient hypotension due to the reversal of serotonin-mediated increases in vascular tone. Such hypotension usually responds to intravenous fluids. Cyproheptadine is rated category B for safety in pregnancy by the US Food and Drug administration (FDA) (table 5) [9].
Definitive evidence of cyproheptadine's effectiveness is lacking. A small study used PET scan to assess 5-HT2 blockade in two volunteers after taking cyproheptadine (12 mg and 18 mg per day for six days). At 12 mg/day, there was 85 percent blockade and at 18 mg/day there was over 95 percent blockade of 5-HT2 receptors in the prefrontal cortex [18]. In addition, many reports describe the successful use of cyproheptadine to treat serotonin syndrome [17,19-24]. The majority of these patients received cyproheptadine at an initial dose of 8 mg, while fewer patients responded to as little as 4 mg and some had no response to as much as 16 mg.
Other antidotes — Antipsychotic agents with 5-HT2A antagonist activity, such as olanzapine and chlorpromazine, have been considered for antidotal treatment, but their efficacy is unproven and we do NOT recommend their use [1]. Chlorpromazine can cause orthostatic hypotension, although this is generally not an issue with serotonin syndrome, in which hypertension is common. Chlorpromazine can also increase hyperthermia

[AOLministrator]

I googled this thread for different reasons, let me just throw a few words at your head:

 

1.The effects you got from DXM and taking MAOI are just plainly abnormal. Meaning: you did by all likeliness not experience them because they are inherent to the drug but because you psychologically created them that way, for the most part at least. No one gets more social from ketamine, no one feels like they are on meth from MAOI+DXM that's just not how it is.

 

2. You sound like you are overanalyzing, overinterpreting and that you experience a lot of baseline anxiety. It is just the kind of autism-schizophrenia-schizotypal-bipolar thing that fits to your personality and I guess you trend more towards schizophrenia than normal, you are more prone to assume stuff as likely which you cannot know about or which is too improbable to assume like NMDA receptor antagonist damage from normal DXM doses as a causal explanation for your confusion and difficulties.

 

3. Brains are too complicated, psychiatry is still on the level of shamanism - coming from someone absorbing 10 years of crap knowledge in the fields. Better luck in 25 years maybe, but your efforts of scientifically researching your psychological state are clearly wasted.

 

4. I only read your first post and I really didn't spend much time on thinking about anything, so don't blame me for errors. You likely will not listen anyway and I hate people. But the problem with your story is just that it doesn't check out, those points I brought up are true in one form or the other.

 

5. I originally came here because I wanted to know if there are minute amounts of kappa opioid receptor agonist in green tea ... because I am hyper-sensitive to anything and it makes me more autism/psychotic/agitated/paranoid whatever. Something is clearly wrong with green tea, I want to know what. Maybe you just have that problem too. I am on a special diet for that reason. Piracetam helped me to 'repair' stuff .. if anything try that and get away from ginseng and plant supplements there is weird shit inside those. Just eat 10 tablespoons of real Chinese green tea (like gunpowder) per day for a week then you know what I am talking about when I mean 'weird'.

Edited by Aolministrator, 06 May 2014 - 01:02 AM.

[formergenius]

You've added no value to the discussion whatsoever.

 

edit: Ha, almost became hypocritical in my forgetfulness: I ran across OPRK1 antibodies.. would this be of interest in those seeking reduced KOR signalling?

Edited by formergenius, 06 May 2014 - 03:18 AM.

[Flex]

I just wanted just to mention that Cyproheptadine is supposedly a relative strong Dopamine D3 antagonist.

http://pdsp.med.unc.edu/pdsp.php

http://en.wikipedia..../Cyproheptadine

(But I´m not sure whether this source is reputable)

 

D3 antagonism, D2 antagonism or adrenergic alpha2 antagonism trough e.g Mitrazepine does also increase glutamate transmission.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15857571

Which seems actually to be benefical:

....Similarly to clozapine, the combination of idazoxan and raclopride also completely reversed the working-memory impairment in rats induced by MK-801 (a NMDA antagonist)

 

 And regarding 5-ht I´ve found this:

 

At a pre-synaptic level, 5-HT can modulate neurotransmitter release: for example, in various brain regions glutamate release is reduced by 5-HT_1A [162, 164, 177], 5-HT_1B [13, 130, 151, 167] and 5-HT₆ receptors [31]. Similarly, pre-synaptic inhibition of GABA release is mediated by 5-HT_1A [90, 95, 96] and 5-HT_1B receptors [88, 117]. By activation of 5-HT₃ receptors, instead, 5-HT stimulates the release of either glutamate [7, 57, 185] or GABA [90, 96, 179]. Also 5-HT₂ receptors were shown to stimulate GABA release [2] and to either increase [2, 72, 177] or reduce [118] glutamate release in distinct structures.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2430669/

 

Edited by Flex, 06 May 2014 - 11:56 AM.

[Illumination]

Hello Everyone,

 

I haven't posted in awhile because things have been getting alot better and I've been more capable of handling my problems autonomously. I've experimented with a few supplements and nootropics, developing a really personalized stack that seems to have my cognitive ability and subjective perception of well-being on and up-curve.

In the parameters outlined in my initial post my improvements are as follows:

Memory

  Working Memory

Before my ability to processing information and hold information in my short term memory was severely impaired. I would read sentences multiple times without being able to interpret their meaning.

Currently, I read and immediately interpret the information I’m reading, selecting relevant pieces of information from material, holding them in my mind, able to operate on them functionally.

The only nootropic I use for the purpose of increasing working memory is caffeine at about 200-700mg daily.

Nootropics I am considering for the purpose of increasing working memory are L-Tyrosine, Creatine, Bacopa Monnieri and Gingko Biloba.

 

   Long Term Memory/ Recall

Where I was very forgetful and procedural (due to a disability in forming confident memories), I am astute and more confident in and reliant on my memories.

Currently I’m not taking anything with respect to improving long term memory, however, I do see increases due to caffeine and nicotine ingestion.

Nootropics I am considering for the purpose of increasing long term memory are Alpha-Gpc, CDP-Choline, Galantamine and Bacopa Monneri.

 

Motivation

My motivation has especially been impacted. Before, I would sleep excessively and experience much anticipatory anhedonia when awake. Now I am appropriately motivated for the majority of my day and have developed diverse interests.

I am only using caffeine for this.

Nootropics I am considering for the purpose of increasing motivation L-Tyrosine, Rhodiola Rosea

 

Consummatory Pleasure/ Subjective Well-Being

Before my ability to achieve pleasurable feelings of satiation were very much impaired which I feel manifested in my social anxiety and avoidant tendencies.

Now I am very much less anxious socially, I am happier, more friendly and generally more content with my life.

For the purpose of increasing comsummatory pleasure and improving subjective wellbeing I regularly perform intense anaerobic exercise and on the weekend I sublingually ingest around 1mg of nicotine and take 900mg St John’s Wort. The effects produced seem to last for about 1-2 weeks after initial ingestion, thus the reason for only dosing on the weekends.     

 

Social Functioning

 I believe as a combined effect of improvement in the above areas, I am more socially competent. My social life has seen much improvement, Before, where I was genuinely a recluse, I now have more meaningful relationships, I get invited to events, I speak confidently in front of crowds..

 

In summary, things have gotten much better and I feel that it is partially due to longecity, and is why I’m back here writing this.

 

*I’ve left out a lot about how my initial stacks have been helpful. Condensed, I feel that piracetam/aniracetam have been the most effective in eliminating the annoying ‘trance mode’ dissociative after effects of DXM and other cognitive impairments associated with NMDA antagonist use.  

. 

[Illumination]

DXM BRAIN DAMAGE

PERIACTIN- CYPROHEPTADINE, over the counter. Counter drug for serotonin toxicity/syndrom

Iam not a specialist, this is just data. People have claimed it reverses the dissociation and helps repair damage over days of taking it CYPROHEPTADINE, . Get over the counter doxylamine succinate if you cant get valium or get valerian root. Doxylamine is an effective sedative to calm tremors ect.
Develop a rehabilitation/nutritional support program: vitamin B complex for physical and mental stress, Amino acid mixes for brain reparation, racetams, nootropics and L-Tyrosine for mental alertness and cognitive function, fish oil. avoid l tryptophan, 5-htp AND DO NOT EVER USE ANTIDEPRESSANTS. Good diet, exercise. Do the research on forums like these and like it says on the hitchikers guide to the galaxy DO NOT PANIC. Anxiety increases blood pressure, brain pressure. This will get better, even if there is 'brain damage' it can repair or if our bodys and there bits and pieces couldnt repair we would all be fucking dead. Breath relax, your just passing through a shitty road and dont ever take more then 500mg of dxm in one month if you ever do use again. No drug dose is safe you can react in numerous ways and die. Maybe time to deal with the real issues in your life and overcome them and recognise your problems arnt permanent there just that, problems to fix. Dont be another one of our human family that got beaten by the bullshit pressures of life. learn to see your life different as a challenge not some overwhelming thing to escape to drugs from, drug abuse is shit, I think you might be understanding this.
Below is stuff I pulled from the web

JESUS BLESS YOU ALL



Antidote: Cyproheptadine — If benzodiazepines and supportive care fail to improve agitation and correct vital signs, we suggest antidotal therapy with cyproheptadine [17]. Cyproheptadine is a histamine-1 receptor antagonist with nonspecific 5-HT1A and 5-HT2A antagonistic properties [17]. It also has weak anticholinergic activity.
Cyproheptadine is available in 4 mg tablets or 2 mg/5 mL syrup [9]. When administered as an antidote for serotonin syndrome, an initial dose of 12 mg is recommended, followed by 2 mg every two hours until clinical response is seen. Cyproheptadine is only available in an oral form, but it may be crushed and given through a nasogastric or orogastric tube.
Cyproheptadine may lead to sedation, but this effect is consistent with the goals of management [1]. Furthermore, as a nonspecific serotonin antagonist, cyproheptadine may produce transient hypotension due to the reversal of serotonin-mediated increases in vascular tone. Such hypotension usually responds to intravenous fluids. Cyproheptadine is rated category B for safety in pregnancy by the US Food and Drug administration (FDA) (table 5) [9].
Definitive evidence of cyproheptadine's effectiveness is lacking. A small study used PET scan to assess 5-HT2 blockade in two volunteers after taking cyproheptadine (12 mg and 18 mg per day for six days). At 12 mg/day, there was 85 percent blockade and at 18 mg/day there was over 95 percent blockade of 5-HT2 receptors in the prefrontal cortex [18]. In addition, many reports describe the successful use of cyproheptadine to treat serotonin syndrome [17,19-24]. The majority of these patients received cyproheptadine at an initial dose of 8 mg, while fewer patients responded to as little as 4 mg and some had no response to as much as 16 mg.
Other antidotes — Antipsychotic agents with 5-HT2A antagonist activity, such as olanzapine and chlorpromazine, have been considered for antidotal treatment, but their efficacy is unproven and we do NOT recommend their use [1]. Chlorpromazine can cause orthostatic hypotension, although this is generally not an issue with serotonin syndrome, in which hypertension is common. Chlorpromazine can also increase hyperthermia

 

 

Hello "Avoid and repari DXM damag",

 

Thanks so much for showing concern, but I don't think a drug with cyproheptadine's pharmocological profile will be of much use to me. On the upside, my tremors have gradually gone away during my experimentation with various nootopics and supplements. 

[panhedonic]

Comfortable speaking in front of crowds? That's better than most of us ever were!

 

Really glad you are feeling better in all those respects. I know how  scary it can be to feel dissociated. Back and grounded!

 

 

 

[Illumination]

I googled this thread for different reasons, let me just throw a few words at your head:

 

1.The effects you got from DXM and taking MAOI are just plainly abnormal. Meaning: you did by all likeliness not experience them because they are inherent to the drug but because you psychologically created them that way, for the most part at least. No one gets more social from ketamine, no one feels like they are on meth from MAOI+DXM that's just not how it is.

 

2. You sound like you are overanalyzing, overinterpreting and that you experience a lot of baseline anxiety. It is just the kind of autism-schizophrenia-schizotypal-bipolar thing that fits to your personality and I guess you trend more towards schizophrenia than normal, you are more prone to assume stuff as likely which you cannot know about or which is too improbable to assume like NMDA receptor antagonist damage from normal DXM doses as a causal explanation for your confusion and difficulties.

 

3. Brains are too complicated, psychiatry is still on the level of shamanism - coming from someone absorbing 10 years of crap knowledge in the fields. Better luck in 25 years maybe, but your efforts of scientifically researching your psychological state are clearly wasted.

 

4. I only read your first post and I really didn't spend much time on thinking about anything, so don't blame me for errors. You likely will not listen anyway and I hate people. But the problem with your story is just that it doesn't check out, those points I brought up are true in one form or the other.

 

5. I originally came here because I wanted to know if there are minute amounts of kappa opioid receptor agonist in green tea ... because I am hyper-sensitive to anything and it makes me more autism/psychotic/agitated/paranoid whatever. Something is clearly wrong with green tea, I want to know what. Maybe you just have that problem too. I am on a special diet for that reason. Piracetam helped me to 'repair' stuff .. if anything try that and get away from ginseng and plant supplements there is weird shit inside those. Just eat 10 tablespoons of real Chinese green tea (like gunpowder) per day for a week then you know what I am talking about when I mean 'weird'.

 

Hello Aolministrator,

 

1. You're are right, the effects I've experienced are atypical. I think that the idea of combining Selegiline and DXM is pretty atypical to begin with. However, I do see a possible case that justifies what I've experienced. 

Lets assume that NMDA antagonism, potentiates dopaminergic activity and also that monoamine oxidase inhibition with selegiline has a net effect of increasing dopamine levels, while slowing the rate at which these levels to drop.

In this case is it irrational to infer that amphetamine like euphoria (and damage) is caused? 

 

2. You're are right again, I was being hyper-analytical and anxious. However, NMDA-antagonist neurotoxicity is real, serotonin syndrome is real and it is absurd to propose that DXM doesn't have the pharmacological activity to induce both.  

 

3. Clearly.

 

5. Is this a post to mock me?

[arvcondor]

So what is your stack exactly at this point?

[Illumination]

Again sorry for my absence, but I've slowly been discovering the noots that give me the most bang for my buck. I'm continuing to improve and I'm performing at similar functionality as my peers (college students), you wouldn't be able to tell I'm a cognitive degrade.

 

So what is your stack exactly at this point?

 

 

Morning

500-750mg ALCAR 

2g Fish Oil 
3g Olive Oil

-These three I take just about every day for fat loss purposes. I'm kinda lean already, but I'm not satisfied with my body fat percentage. The mitochondrial and longevity effects are also a great plus. 

 

25-50mg Caffeine 

.5mg Galantamine

Optionally,

3-4g Piracetam

 -I've been using caffeine for about 2 years now and its definitely a staple to me of any nootropic stack. I'm approaching optimal dosing as well. From 25mg I get beneficial effects of it such as increased motivation, concentration, improved mood and working memory. However, approaching 75mg I get increasingly hyper (physically), anxious and these work together to impair my social functioning.

-Discovering galantamine has been like discovering a nootropic holy grail!!! Galantamine very consistently (~99% of the time) improves my cognitive and social functioning. Verbal Recall? No problem, the words are always there when I need them. It feels really great to be able to use my words to express how I feel/or some other kind of information to someone, and have it be appreciated for what it was intended to be. It improves my productivity in a way that's subtle subjectively, but easy to pick up on looking back on work logs. It also makes me more social, more adaptable. It really synergies with caffeine to give me the focus and adaptability I need daily. Also, the best part is, no sides! (for me) 

I recommend galantamine to anyone who is experiencing cognitive impairments similar to mine.

 

To reset my caffeine tolerance, some days instead of the caffeine I take 

~1-5mg Rhodiola

150mg Armodafinil

- I've only been using these for a few weeks. The rhodiola adds positively to my mood, but barely tbh. The Armodafinil helps with focus and improves my confidence, without making me too anxious. I don't really like this combination in comparison to the caffeine but I do see potential in both of these noots, and will probably try to find an optimal dose and incorporate them into the above stack. 

 

 

Afternoon

Everyday I fast into the afternoon and then do a high intensity workout routine, followed by a high carb, high protein meal (bad for longevity, I know ) 

.5mg Galantamine

Optionally, 250mg Oxiracetam

-I included the workout because it is relieves anxiety, adds to my sociability and thus I consider it nootropic. 

-Oxiracetam, I only use for afternoon cognitive work like studying or grasping new material in a lecture. It improves focus and comprehension without the anxiety. 

 

Nighttime

.5mg Galantamine

2mg Melatonin

-Melatonin helps with sleep but I take it moreso for its longevity/antioxidant effects. (I know, my dose is way too low)

 

 

----------------------------------------------

Other Considerations:

-Galantamine has really been a breakthrough for me and it has pointed me in the direction of glutamate-acetycholine interacting compounds as 

optimal remedies. I am currently considering Sunifiram and Coluracetam as future remedies and hopefully as compounds that will put me on the path of permanent relief from impairment.

-Another area that I need to improve in is sociability and friendliness. I feel like I don't give enough of myself to the people around me and I have much evidence to support the notion. I will add L-Tryptophan or 5-htp to my stack and work my way towards more selectively-acting noots from there.

-I will also be adding more longevity compounds to my stack. Acetyl-Carnosine, ALA...

 

In closing, sorry for the long post 

-Lum

 

 

Options : History : Help : Feedback

 

Edited by Illumination, 31 May 2015 - 02:25 PM.

[David Middlemiss]

Hi Guys,

 

Thanks so much for this entire thread It has been extremely motivational and given so much hope!

 

I had posted this recently and had started a basic stack as below

 

Posted 06 July 2016 - 06:46 PM

 

Quote :-

Hi guys, this is only my second post here, (A real Newbie)

I have been diagnosed with a Phsychotic illness, Bipolar symptoms cycling up to healing the world and then dropping to hell like states

I wish never to expeience the later again

I have taken quetiapine fumerate for a long period, almost 20 years, between 400mg at worst, mainly 200mg as a rule or down to 100mg after stepping down my dosage with the help of my doctor,

after a peak emotions both Good and bad flooded me on a roller coaster ride that completely bottomed out over th last few months

I feel totally stripped, depressed and empty at this point in time,

It eventually totally bottomed after my partner and I had gone away and i'd forgotten to take my  medication and after one night suffered dramatic withdrawal and a massive trough, after a 9 month uppcycle/peak the drop and bottoming,

I'm reasonably stable at present but feel rung out, empty andat times still very unstable,

i feel numb and much of my personality has dissapeared, eratic, unable to focus, unable to keep appointments, reason, basal function has seemed to be the norm, as if my right and left brain have no connection likewise the rest of the brain regions.

I would like to stabilise, reset and rewire to an extent, using mainly natural substances, I'm pescatarian, and am prepared to collect and juice herbs, raw food diet, and although this is a pretty big ask would like some ideas of how to move forward as a productive member of society yet fulfil some goals in life,

I'd say I'm very open minded and would like to look at Dihexa and possible Brain Plasticity so interested in Valporic acid other ideas and looking for a New Programme to overwrite the old outmoded connections and anything to rewire thw addictive compulsive part of my brain, also i have become desensitised and would like to slowly bring empathy back into play with gentle drive and I'd say Cognative Behavioural Therapy, Brain wave therapy and am open to ideas

At the moment I'm thinking along the lines of

 

Selenium

Multi B Vits

L-Tyrosene

L-Theanine

L-Glutamine

DMAE

N-Acetyl-Cysteine

Flax Oil

CDP-Choline

 

and working out safe dosages and how to cycle

 

Possible Inclussions

Panax Ginseng

Eleuthrococcus Senticosus

Rhazya Stricta Decne

 

Many Thanks

David :End Quote

 

I think that all of thge above actually gives me a really Good idea of where I can go to renew my life journey and enjoy a fulfilling life for Communally and globally,

thank you!!!!