10 replies to this topic

[Douggers]

Hi, I am looking into trying Kanna for its mood lifting, relaxing effects. However I am currently taking St. John's wort for a situational 'depression' (which I'd say is almost 100% gone from the SJW) caused by a dying family memember. (More detail on that in my other posts)
I am asking because I have researched that it may not be a good idea to mix the two because they both have SSRI/MAOI properties which could lead to Seritonin Syndrome :/ Although there is no evidence of this that I've seen.
Are these two okay to mix? I've read some amazing things on Kanna, and I'd love to be able to take it on an as needed basis during abnormally stressful times. On the other hand, SJW has literally cured a nearly constant bad mood I was in, since September of taking it (so I don't want to remove it from what I take)

Any suggestions?

[Douggers]

Anyone even take Kanna here?

[Reformed-Redan]

There won't be any interactions. If you took a MAOI then yeah prolly.

[Douggers]

Could anyone else confirm that?

[moleface]

I had the same concerns, but I eventually found that kanna mixed with St. John's wort produces a much better antidepressant effect than either on their own. I finally decided to try SJW after I read that some psychiatrists recommend it as an adjunct treatment for patients on prescription SSRIs. The two mixed feels to me like a gentler herbal version of prescription antidepressants, minus the sexual side effects and weight gain

I hope kanna is never regulated. I haven't found it to be recreational at all, so if it's ever restricted it'll be due to the threat it poses to the pharmaceutical industry. If pills containing extracts of sceletium and SJW were sold in most stores, far less people would turn to prescription antidepressants.

I've been closely monitoring myself for symptoms of serotonin syndrome, and I've had none so far after a month of this treatment. Obviously i'm not a doctor(yet), so I can't say for certain whether or not mixing the two herbs could potentially harm you. All I can say is that my experience with them has been extremely positive.

Edited by moleface, 05 March 2013 - 10:55 PM.

[Douggers]

I had the same concerns, but I eventually found that kanna mixed with St. John's wort produces a much better antidepressant effect than either on their own. I finally decided to try SJW after I read that some psychiatrists recommend it as an adjunct treatment for patients on prescription SSRIs. The two mixed feels to me like a gentler herbal version of prescription antidepressants, minus the sexual side effects and weight gain

I hope kanna is never regulated. I haven't found it to be recreational at all, so if it's ever restricted it'll be due to the threat it poses to the pharmaceutical industry. If pills containing extracts of sceletium and SJW were sold in most stores, far less people would turn to prescription antidepressants.

I've been closely monitoring myself for symptoms of serotonin syndrome, and I've had none so far after a month of this treatment. Obviously i'm not a doctor(yet), so I can't say for certain whether or not mixing the two herbs could potentially harm you. All I can say is that my experience with them has been extremely positive.

Ah, this is exactly what I was hoping for haha. Well thanks! and I'm glad to hear those two help you so much. I'd like to ask you though; how much kanna do you take, and how often? What form do you take? (plant/extract)
like you, I'm not a doctor either, but my idea behind these two was that they both weren't strong enough by themselves to create a troublesome situation. However, I wanted to check that on here. I'd be interested if anyone else has tried/ or uses this combo.

[moleface]

Ah, this is exactly what I was hoping for haha. Well thanks! and I'm glad to hear those two help you so much. I'd like to ask you though; how much kanna do you take, and how often? What form do you take? (plant/extract)
like you, I'm not a doctor either, but my idea behind these two was that they both weren't strong enough by themselves to create a troublesome situation. However, I wanted to check that on here. I'd be interested if anyone else has tried/ or uses this combo.

I'm taking 400-500mg of kanna a day orally. That's a high dose, but the stuff produces a much weaker effect taken orally vs insufflation or smoking. I do a lot of exercise, so I'm not interested in smoking anything - and I got sick of walking around every day with a cokehead drip, so snorting is also out of the question. It's far more effective that way though. When I was snorting it, I'd take 200 mg a day and split it into four doses.

Potency varies wildly between vendors. I bought some off amazon that's about half as potent as another source. I'd go with ktbotanicals if I were you. I haven't tried every vendor, but so far ktbotanicals' "pharmaceutical grade kanna" is the most potent I've tried.

I'm also taking 600-900 mg of St John's Wort extract a day. I started low and experimented with different doses over the last month, and I've found that this works best for me. Keep in mind though, I'm dealing with severe depression related to PTSD. You might not want to go all-in with a large dose like I am, since you might end up dealing with hypomania or excess stimulation. I don't believe in taking the maximum dose of emotion-numbing agents unless I've tried every other avenue. I spent the last five years closely watching my diet, working on myself mentally, and exercising literally every day without breaks before I started to resort to tranquilizers and antidepressants.

About stimulation - kanna has a similar come-up to prescription SSRIs, so you have to watch out for agitation and CNS stimulation during the first week or two. It takes me 2-4 weeks of daily use before the stimulant effect levels off and is replaced with a general feeling of increased confidence and well-being. The feeling of well being is far less pronounced than that of prescription SSRIs though - to me, kanna is most useful in combating apathy and social anxiety. The feelings of well being came into the picture once I started stacking it with the SJW.

Edited by moleface, 06 March 2013 - 03:21 PM.

[Douggers]

Ah, this is exactly what I was hoping for haha. Well thanks! and I'm glad to hear those two help you so much. I'd like to ask you though; how much kanna do you take, and how often? What form do you take? (plant/extract)
like you, I'm not a doctor either, but my idea behind these two was that they both weren't strong enough by themselves to create a troublesome situation. However, I wanted to check that on here. I'd be interested if anyone else has tried/ or uses this combo.

I'm taking 400-500mg of kanna a day orally. That's a high dose, but the stuff produces a much weaker effect taken orally vs insufflation or smoking. I do a lot of exercise, so I'm not interested in smoking anything - and I got sick of walking around every day with a cokehead drip, so snorting is also out of the question. It's far more effective that way though. When I was snorting it, I'd take 200 mg a day and split it into four doses.

Potency varies wildly between vendors. I bought some off amazon that's about half as potent as another source. I'd go with ktbotanicals if I were you. I haven't tried every vendor, but so far ktbotanicals' "pharmaceutical grade kanna" is the most potent I've tried.

I'm also taking 600-900 mg of St John's Wort extract a day. I started low and experimented with different doses over the last month, and I've found that this works best for me. Keep in mind though, I'm dealing with severe depression related to PTSD. You might not want to go all-in with a large dose like I am, since you might end up dealing with hypomania or excess stimulation. I don't believe in taking the maximum dose of emotion-numbing agents unless I've tried every other avenue. I spent the last five years closely watching my diet, working on myself mentally, and exercising literally every day without breaks before I started to resort to tranquilizers and antidepressants.

About stimulation - kanna has a similar come-up to prescription SSRIs, so you have to watch out for agitation and CNS stimulation during the first week or two. It takes me 2-4 weeks of daily use before the stimulant effect levels off and is replaced with a general feeling of increased confidence and well-being. The feeling of well being is far less pronounced than that of prescription SSRIs though - to me, kanna is most useful in combating apathy and social anxiety. The feelings of well being came into the picture once I started stacking it with the SJW.

Thanks for all the great info! Yeah, I too am only interested in orally ingesting it. This may be a dumb question, but have you ever tried chewing it/ letting it dissolve in your mouth first? I have heard taking it that way is far greater than just swallowing it (but I'm fairly sure you would have tried that route too.) - I am sorry to hear about your situation, but I am glad you've found something that works for you.
As for vendors, thanks for that. I looked at ktbotanicals Kanna and it seems reasonably priced. I do have to ask you though; have you ever tried the kanna from 'therootofthematter.com? I haven't seen any reviews on their Kanna, however some people (on here) rave about there maca. I'm asking because they are located in Canada (me too) so I wouldn't get dinged with any duty or shipping as US-Canada shipping seems famous for :P

Also, How long until you started to feel the initial effects? I've seen many people say anywhere from hours later to a day or so, but these are usually the people who use it for recreational purposes, so perhaps, in very high doses.

[Reformed-Redan]

Just make sure the Kanna is fermented. That makes a big difference with the amount of mesembrine per gram.

[moleface]

Thanks for all the great info! Yeah, I too am only interested in orally ingesting it. This may be a dumb question, but have you ever tried chewing it/ letting it dissolve in your mouth first? I have heard taking it that way is far greater than just swallowing it (but I'm fairly sure you would have tried that route too.) - I am sorry to hear about your situation, but I am glad you've found something that works for you.
As for vendors, thanks for that. I looked at ktbotanicals Kanna and it seems reasonably priced. I do have to ask you though; have you ever tried the kanna from 'therootofthematter.com? I haven't seen any reviews on their Kanna, however some people (on here) rave about there maca. I'm asking because they are located in Canada (me too) so I wouldn't get dinged with any duty or shipping as US-Canada shipping seems famous for :P

Also, How long until you started to feel the initial effects? I've seen many people say anywhere from hours later to a day or so, but these are usually the people who use it for recreational purposes, so perhaps, in very high doses.

I've never tried their kanna, so I'm not sure.

About sublingual kanna - I haven't noticed a huge difference in that method. The only routes that provide an instant noticeable effect are insufflation and smoking.

Re: feeilng the initial effects - if you snort or smoke it, immediately. It's difficult to say with oral administration, since I started out insufflating it and only just now switched over to the oral route becuase I was having problems with nosebleeds, coke fiend nose drip etc. Kanna is like prescription SSRIs, in the sense that you won't feel each individual dose once you've reached a threshold antidepressant effect from it. At this point, I just feel a nonstop cumulative antidepressant effect all the time.

The antidepressant effects don't kick in for me until several weeks of taking it daily. You have to watch out for agitation and increased anxiety for the first 1-3 weeks. I was severely near-catatonically depressed last winter when I started taking it, and for the first week I got the strong urge to commit suicide. If you're already severely depressed and you're taking a stimulant, the stimulation can make you more likely to go through with self harm or suicide. That's no longer a problem once the cumulative antidepressant effect kicks in.

Like i said in an earlier post, I've found kanna most useful for increasing motivation and confidence. The artificial feelings of well-being you'd get from prescription SSRIs is mostly absent, though it starts coming into the picture once you stack it with St John's Wort.

Good luck! I hope it works out for you.

Edited by moleface, 08 March 2013 - 04:17 PM.

[abelard lindsay]

So my curiosity got the better of me and I tried Kanna/CILTEP. I took 80mg Kanna with 5mg Forskolin and 900mg L-Phenylalanine. I got some of the highest scores I've ever gotten on cambridgebrainsciences.com on the reasoning tests. Cool stuff. It was pretty serene though I did get a mild headache after a few hours though and my short-term memory scores were not improved. I would not advise taking more than 80mg + forskolin at a time. That headache was somewhat unpleasant and was starting to get a bit worrying before it went away.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 11 March 2013 - 05:01 AM.