60 replies to this topic

[pleb]

Hi Thanks perhaps you can suggest something for cutting i had read that IGF-1 did that over time but as i'm taking whey with milk i may need something to go with that,for the belly as it tends to bloat me slightly do you mean ACE 031 not 053
i'll post the original blurb from the designer later, when i can find it,

Edited by pleb, 08 May 2013 - 01:10 PM.

[pleb]

Hi Kool, there are two that are obtainable, ace as mentioned and Follistatin 344 there are a number of follistatins but 344 is the one used, the downside is that it also causes some brittleness in ligaments so you need something for that as well, ace doesn't work by the same pathway so you don't get the ligament problem, and most of the prices quoted are way out of date on articles on the web, its dropped a lot in the last year and will probably drop further, as more is produced, at the moment demand is outstripping supply,

[KoolK3n]

Hi Thanks perhaps you can suggest something for cutting i had read that IGF-1 did that over time but as i'm taking whey with milk i may need something to go with that,for the belly as it tends to bloat me slightly do you mean ACE 031 not 053
i'll post the original blurb from the designer later, when i can find it,

Cutting as in burning fat and minimizing muscle loss?

Dairy has been shown to increase IGF-1, which is the end product of HGH. But as you pointed out milk isn't necessarily that great as a cutting tool because of the bloating that most people also have.
Currently, I'm in my bulking phase but once I start my cutting phase in a few months, I plan on reducing my total caloric intake and start supplementing with BCAAs. I'll continue my daily gallon of water routine as well.

Edited by KoolK3n, 08 May 2013 - 02:51 PM.

[pleb]

Hi Kool, yes burning fat, i take the whey with milk for the extra calories but i'm just as happy with it in water,
and to keep this as low cost i'm taking Dymatize mega gainer that comes in a bag in a cardboard box there's about 12 pound in the bag, as I'm not a bb'r i just picked the one that seemed to offer the largest amount at the cheapest price, perhaps a false economy,or there may be others out there that offer better value ? can you recommend others, ?

also thanks for the tip about the water i'll start taking more each day,

Edited by pleb, 08 May 2013 - 02:40 PM.

[KoolK3n]

Hi Kool, yes burning fat, i take the whey with milk for the extra calories but i'm just as happy with it in water,
and to keep this as low cost i'm taking Dymatize mega gainer that comes in a bag in a cardboard box there's about 12 pound in the bag, as I'm not a bb'r i just picked the one that seemed to offer the largest amount at the cheapest price, perhaps a false economy,or there may be others out there that offer better value ? can you recommend others, ?

Haha well I'm picky when it comes to taste, so I use Syntha-6. If taste isn't an issue, any protein powder will suffice. In terms of cost, from what I've seen offered on Amazon, Optimum Nutritions "Serious Mass" product is probably the way to go.

I wonder why they discontinued trials after such minuscule side effects.

[KoolK3n]

Hi Kool, there are two that are obtainable, ace as mentioned and Follistatin 344 there are a number of follistatins but 344 is the one used, the downside is that it also causes some brittleness in ligaments so you need something for that as well, ace doesn't work by the same pathway so you don't get the ligament problem, and most of the prices quoted are way out of date on articles on the web, its dropped a lot in the last year and will probably drop further, as more is produced, at the moment demand is outstripping supply,

What site do you buy your ace from?

[nowayout]

Yes, muscular men have more FREE testosterone

Not necessarily, no.

y

Broscience.

Show me any actual research.

[pleb]

Thanks i'll look into the whey you mention i also like the taste of Dymatize,i bought a few small packs from a company to see what they tasted like, and that was the only one i liked, they sold small samples for a quid a piece i got six,to try,

if you mean the trails in Canada with the myo inhibitor it was because of the small number who had nose bleeds and gum bleeding they were mostly 7 to 10 year old kids, and it was being over seen by the american FDA, but there was a mention recently that they are starting them again and finishing the second phase and then doing the 3rd phase

Hi Kool i'll send you an IM with the name of the company for the ACE as its in short supply and i've been informed that they will have new supplies in about 2 weeks, they also sell follistatin 344 but that's out of stock at the moment as well

[nowayout]

Nose and gum bleeds can be warning signs of more systemic bleeding, including stroke. I would not touch something like that with someone else's ten foot pole.

[pleb]

it occured in one or two kids and has now been cleared to start again by the FDA in kids its very common ask any parent,

Edited by pleb, 08 May 2013 - 05:52 PM.

[KoolK3n]

Pleb I think ur wasting a lot of money on ACE. The dose they provide is just too weak. Effective myostatin inhibition ranges in the hundreds of milligrams daily. Half a milligram every two weeks should yield maybe a .000001% increase in lean body mass. I think you are getting results from the IGF and HGH fragment peptides. In terms of cost, I think creatine is the more cost efficient myo inhibiter.

[KoolK3n]

Also, what are you doing about testosterone?

[pleb]

i'm not sure i agree, if your getting your figures from the mouse trails with ACE mice have 100 times as much Myostatin as humans, also a great many BB'rs are taking IGF-1 long 3 and not getting large results, plus a number now putting a pound a day on without IGF, they have just added ace to their regime,
i'm not taking HGH fragments i'm taking full HGH but not for the muscle building but admittedly it will help i have to stop taking IGF 1 for twoweeks to allow the receptors to recover, and i'll see how it goes after that on the second month,

with regard to Testoserone I'm not taking anything for that, this is to see if ACE actually works without exercise just the peptides and hormones as mentioned plus extra whey protein

i should add that the amounts i'm taking come from BB sites

Edited by pleb, 13 May 2013 - 09:34 PM.

[KoolK3n]

i'm not sure i agree, if your getting your figures from the mouse trails with ACE mice have 100 times as much Myostatin as humans, also a great many BB'rs are taking IGF-1 long 3 and not getting large results, plus a number now putting a pound a day on without IGF, they have just added ace to their regime,
i'm not taking HGH fragments i'm taking full HGH but not for the muscle building but admittedly it will help i have to stop taking IGF 1 for twoweeks to allow the receptors to recover, and i'll see how it goes after that on the second month,

But keep in mind, there are also many people who've tried ACE and got zero results. And I was referring to the studies on humans with muscular dystrophy.

It's good you're on full HGH, it's much more effective than the other related peptides.

with regard to Testoserone I'm not taking anything for that, this is to see if ACE actually works without exercise just the peptides and hormones as mentioned plus extra whey protein

i should add that the amounts i'm taking come from BB sites

Alright but check out Clomid.

[pleb]

i agree about the trails with the kids with MD they didnt seem to put on a great deal at all, the second part of the Canadian trails has now resumed after the stoppage for the kids who got bleeding from gums and nose, they have decided its nothing to worry about,

the reason i'm only on the things mentioned is to see if the designers comments about putting on muscle actually work,he said one injection every 2 weeks and take it until you have the amount of muscle you want, but i think he's underestimated the amount of extra protein that's needed he may not have even considered that? ,i'm not sure that the kids actually took anything other than their normal meals,
plus i have added the IGF for the way that works, i agree with you that IGF works by building new muscle

I will cheak the Clomid you mention, and there are differences in the use of ACE one BBer took 100MCG a day for 10 days, and put on more than a pound a day not sure of the amount but i will look for the post on the site i found, possibly because he took the whole Vial over a shorter period,

Edited by pleb, 13 May 2013 - 10:01 PM.

[KoolK3n]

What's your daily HGH dosage in I.U?

[pleb]

HGH 2 iu a day, regarding the ACE, the posts i sent you show the guy was on both Follistatin and ace that's why i thought of increasing the ace to 1mlg every 2 weeks,
i've read that Myostatin needs dropping by at least 40 to 60 percent to be effective,

[KoolK3n]

Lol my natural endogenous hgh production is 2-3iu. If you really wanna see results, up your dose to 6-8iu. That's how much hgh a 10 year old produces.

Regarding ACE, I will have to reread it again tonight. I'm outside in the sun with my iPhone now.

[pleb]

i know but i'm 68 years old i produce about 1/10th of the amount that you do, the recommended amount for rejuvenation in guys my age is 1 to 2 iu a day, that brings it up to the level of a typicle 19 to 20 year old when it is at its highest, i'm taking it for that,
the muscle building is why i'm taking IGF-1 long 3 and ACE,

natural HGH is at its highest when your 19 to 20 years old by the time your 30 it has dropped to half that amount and continues to decrease at the rate of 14 percent every 10 years

Edited by pleb, 14 May 2013 - 05:18 PM.

[nowayout]

Well, given the research linking HGH and IGF-1 to shorter life, maybe the natural falloff is protective.

[KoolK3n]

natural HGH is at its highest when your 19 to 20 years old by the time your 30 it has dropped to half that amount and continues to decrease at the rate of 14 percent every 10 years

Google "hgh age chart". Natural hgh peaks at around the age of 10. After that, it begins to significantly drop off. It starts to bottom out at 20 and from there gradually declines.

10 year old males typically produce 2000mcg or 2mg daily which is 6iu. Like you said, 19-20 produce 2-3iu.

Edited by KoolK3n, 14 May 2013 - 05:31 PM.

[pleb]

HGH increases life span IGF reduce's it slightly but both up regulate telomarase its a balance as HGH causes the liver to produce IGF1


but IGF causes a much greater up regulation of telomerase than HGH and the theory is that it could increase the chances increasing mutating cells to become cancer cells,,

i had not read about the amounts for kids other than that we produce the maximum at 19 to 20 when we are at our natural muscle building age, which would appear to be wrong,

Edited by pleb, 14 May 2013 - 05:51 PM.

[KoolK3n]

Well, given the research linking HGH and IGF-1 to shorter life, maybe the natural falloff is protective.

I've seen the data.
My personal conclusion: YOLO

Dairy also increases IGF-1 synthesis but I'm still drinking it.

[KoolK3n]

i had not read about the amounts for kids other than that we produce the maximum at 19 to 20 when we are at our natural muscle building age, which would appear to be wrong,

No, 19-20 is the age for muscle building because of the peak in testosterone. HGH at that age is 30-40% of what it was at age 10. 10 is the HGH peak.

Also, when are going to exercise? The stress from exercising upregulates the IGF receptors. You're not reaping the full benefits.

Edited by KoolK3n, 14 May 2013 - 05:49 PM.

[pleb]

I'll look into the up regulation of IGF receptors as i had not read that they were effected, other than to much IGF 1 will shut them down,

[pleb]

i had not read about the amounts for kids other than that we produce the maximum at 19 to 20 when we are at our natural muscle building age, which would appear to be wrong,

No, 19-20 is the age for muscle building because of the peak in testosterone. HGH at that age is 30-40% of what it was at age 10. 10 is the HGH peak.

Also, when are going to exercise? The stress from exercising upregulates the IGF receptors. You're not reaping the full benefits.

sorry i meant that i didn't know kids had higher amounts of HGH the rest i agree with you on that,
the kids with MD can't exercise they don't have the muscle that's why i am trying this without exercise,

[Logic]

Pleb if you want to burn fat; look into Clenbuterol.

As I prefer the milder herbal route I recommend Curcumin:
http://www.ergo-log.com/curcumin.html
http://www.ergo-log....inanabolic.html

You'll find plenty of interesting info on that site.

[pleb]

Thanks Logic, but fat....... me . ... there's more fat on a wet chip

[Logic]

From post 31 I thought you wanted to cut? Oops; cutting is definition, not fat loss.

[pleb]

Hi Logic yes i did mention it in post 31 i thought definition was cutting fat from around the muscles to give the definition, but not as in regular fat loss for chubby guys, or as most women over here need, cos they are 3 stone over weight and still climbing

Edited by pleb, 15 May 2013 - 11:34 AM.