64 replies to this topic

[exigentsky]

I really want to try one of the racetams, but I'm not sure which one.

How do their effects differ? How about safety concerns? This is a huge factor for me. (I don't want my balls to be damaged, increased excitotoxicity or neuron death. ) Which do you think is the best overall?

Having a motivating and focus effect is a big plus. It's very hard for me not to be lazy.

And also quite important, what other ingredients do I need to supplenent for them to be effective? I understand for example that one should never take a lot of Piracetam without a choline supplement.

Thank you,
Alex

BTW: I know that this has been discussed before, but I want to see if everyone's opinion is still the same and I want more details.

I should also mention that starting in late May, I will be taking an enterically coated tablet with high bio-availability which includes the following in miligrams:

Specialty Supplements
5 -HTP (5-hydroxytryptophan) 150
Acetyl L-carnitine 150
Alpha Lipoic Acid 150
Betaine HCL = Trimethylglycine 150
Choline Bitartrate 300
DMAE (dimethylaminoethanol) 300
Huperzine A 1
Ribonucleic Acid (RNA) 75
Phosphatidyl Choline (as Lecithin) 300
Phosphatidyl-L-serine 120
Quercetin 150
Lycopene 30
SAMe (S-Adenosylmethionine) 300
Vinpocetine 15

Amino Acids
DL-phenylalanine 240
L-Glutamine 150
L-Lysine 100
L-Methionine 100
L-Tyrosine 300

Vitamins-Minerals and Co-Factors
Biotin 2
Folic acid 0.6
Inositol 90
Vitamin B1 Thiamine 6
Vitamin B2 Riboflavin 6
Vitamin B3 Niacinamide 10
Vitamin B5 (Calcium Pantothenate) 10
Vitamin B6 (Pyridoxine Hydrochloride) 30
Vitamin E 5
Boron (as Boron Citrate) 5
Chromium (as Chromium Nicotinate) active element bases 0.03
Copper (as Copper Sebacate) 0.5
Lithium citrate or chloride 0.3
Manganese (citrate) 0.08
Molybdenum (as Sodium Molybdate) active element bases 0.03
Selenium active element bases 0.4
Zinc citrate 8

Standardized Herbal Extracts
Bacopa monniera extract (30% Bacosides) 60
Bilberry 75
Ginkgo biloba 120
Gotu kola 225
Green Tea 75
Hawthorn Berry 75
Passion Flower 90
Piperine 15
Grape seed extract 75
Schizandra 90
Siberian Ginseng extract (15:1) 90
Silymarin (Milk Thistle) 120
Yucca Root 90

I think it does not matter, but I thought it would be wise to list this.

Edited by exigentsky, 30 April 2005 - 12:27 AM.

[LifeMirage]

I really want to try one of the racetams, but I'm not sure which one.

How do their effects differ? How about safety concerns? This is a huge factor for me. (I don't want my balls to be damaged, increased excitotoxicity or neuron death.  ) Which do you think is the best overall?

For one new to nootropics, I would recommend trying Piracetam first. It has the most studies, been around the longest, its biochemical effects have been well explored, and it is very cost effective.

Yours In Health

[exigentsky]

Thank you, I will try Piracetam fist, but which choline supplement should I use? Choline Bitartrate, CDP Choline or Alpha-GPC?

I should also mention that I asked the maker of the nootropic with the ingredients listed above why Choline Bitartrate was used instead of Choline Citrate. If I recall correctly, they said that because of the way Choline Bitartrate is combined with other ingredients it is more efficient in the case of their formula. They said that for example, CDP Choline negatively interacted with the RNA they include.

But, considering that their products are enterically coated, it will take at least 2 hours before it's contents will be released.

Hence, I am wondering if it may simply not matter that I am taking CDP choline with their product because of the time gap.

Sorry to be so confusing, but what do you think about this?

Also, should I use Hydergine too or is it not necessary?

Finally, is http://smi2le.biz/ a good place to buy stuff from? I like their prices and I am particularly interested in one of their products:

"Piracetam/Alpha GPC - 625mg/50mg 60 capsules $8 "

Would this provide the necessary Choline for Piracetam or would it still be necessary to take another choline supplement?

BTW: How long should I use Piracetam on a dosage of 1.875 mg per day before taking a break and starting again and is an attack dose necessary?

Edited by exigentsky, 30 April 2005 - 03:07 AM.

[Chip]

And as long as it is pure, piracetam appears to be rather safe to consume. I understand there might be more to be concerned about with the other racetams such as overdosing?

[LifeMirage]

Thank you, I will try Piracetam fist, but which choline supplement should I use? Choline Bitartrate, CDP Choline or Alpha-GPC?

Hence, I am wondering if it may simply not matter that I am taking CDP choline with their product because of the time gap.

Sorry to be so confusing, but what do you think about this?

Also, should I use Hydergine too or is it not necessary?

Finally, is http://smi2le.biz/ a good place to buy stuff from? I like their prices and I am particularly interested in one of their products:

"Piracetam/Alpha GPC - 625mg/50mg 60 capsules $8 "

Would this provide the necessary Choline for Piracetam or would it still be necessary to take another choline supplement?

BTW: How long should I use Piracetam on a dosage of 1.875 mg per day before taking a break and starting again and is an attack dose necessary?

CDP-Choline is better in my opinion, alpha GPC could use far more research.

Hydergine is a very important nootropic to take, but try it after taking Piracetam for a month or so.

Smi2le's product contains little GPC and a remarkably low dose of Piracetam at a expensive cost compared to other sources.

If you're looking for Piracetam capsules Relentness Improvement is one of the best sources for price.

I would recommend taking 800-1,600 mg of Piracetam every hour (or so) for 6 hours for the first 2-3 days to insure a noticeable effect.

[exigentsky]

I thought Alpha-GPC was supposed to be faster acting, in what way is CDP-Choline better? Is it just taht Alpha-GPC's effects are still not fully known yet?

"Smi2le's product contains little GPC and a remarkably low dose of Piracetam at a expensive cost compared to other sources."

RI sells Piracetam 800 mg 120 capsules for $20

This means that for $20 I get 96,000 mg of Piracetam.

SMI2LE sells 625 mg of Piracetam + 50 mg of Alpha-GPC for $8. This means that for $16

This means that for $20 I get 93,750 mg of piracetam and 7,500 mg of Alpha-GPC.

Therefore, it doesn't seem like the price is really a factor with either. Is there another difference?

Anyway, what CDP-Choline supplement do you recommend?

"I would recommend taking 800-1,600 mg of Piracetam every hour (or so) for 6 hours for the first 2-3 days to insure a noticeable effect. "

What should I drop the dosage to after the 3rd day?

[LifeMirage]

I thought Alpha-GPC was supposed to be faster acting, in what way is CDP-Choline better? Is it just taht Alpha-GPC's effects are still not fully known yet?

CDP-Choline has been in use for decades, studied in almost 1,000 studies, Alpha GPC under 12 (published and available in Medline/PubMed). While a few studies show in certain areas Alpha GPC may be more potent, the weight of scientific evidence supports CDP-Choline.

"Smi2le's product contains little GPC and a remarkably low dose of Piracetam at a expensive cost compared to other sources."

RI sells Piracetam 800 mg 120 capsules for $20, This means that for $20 I get 96,000 mg of Piracetam. SMI2LE sells 625 mg of Piracetam , 50 mg of Alpha-GPC for $8. This means that for $16 This means that for $20 I get 93,750 mg of piracetam and 7,500 mg of Alpha-GPC. Therefore, it doesn't seem like the price is really a factor with either. Is there another difference<!--QuoteEnd]Anyway, what CDP-Choline supplement do you recommend?

Honestly, best deal you can find online. AOR or Smart Nutrition.

"I would recommend taking 800-1,600 mg of Piracetam every hour (or so) for 6 hours for the first 2-3 days to insure a noticeable effect. "

What should I drop the dosage to after the 3rd day?

2.4-4.8 daily at the most 9.6, but when you add other True Nootropics you should lower the dose.

[wannafulfill]

You are going to get skewed results towards piracetam with this poll because it is the one people have the most experience with.

[AaronCW]

Life Mirage, I am unfamiliar with the use of the term 'True Nootropic'. Can you please inform me of its proper definition.

[exigentsky]

I think he mainly means pharmaceuticals instead of herbs and vitamins.

But still, considering the formula I listed above, shouldn't the Piracetam dose be lowered?

[exigentsky]

It seems that most everyone voted Piracetam. However, I read numerous studies that conclude that Aniracetam and Oxiracetam is significantly more efficient than Piracetam?

Are there some safety issues between Oxiracetam and Aniracetam? If so, what is the safest of the two?

[LifeMirage]

It seems that most everyone voted Piracetam. However, I read numerous studies that conclude that Aniracetam and Oxiracetam is significantly more efficient than Piracetam?

Not exactly true , while aniracetam & oxiracetam in some specific areas appears to be more potent per mg, their biochemical effects have not been investigated anywhere near the same extent as Piracetam.

Life Mirage, I am unfamiliar with the use of the term 'True Nootropic'. Can you please inform me of its proper definition.

The answer is in the Nootropic Q/A.

But still, considering the formula I listed above, shouldn't the Piracetam dose be lowered?

You will have to find the right dose for you.

I think he mainly means pharmaceuticals instead of herbs and vitamins.

No.

Are there some safety issues between Oxiracetam and Aniracetam? If so, what is the safest of the two?

No safety issues.

[michaelscott]

I've only used piracetam and oxiracetam, and I love them both but they're different. For grasping concepts, oxi is better. Piracetam makes me feel very administrative, and verbal.

[the big b]

Did you really need to revive a 3 year old thread?

[brentx]

Did you really need to revive a 3 year old thread?

Sssshhhh, it's OK, leave him alone :-p

[michaelscott]

Did you really need to revive a 3 year old thread?

Hm, that's weird... I always just click "Active topics". I wonder why it showed this old thread as active.

Oh, I bet I clicked a link on the "Similar Topics" and then replied to it.

I'll be sure to check the date from now on.

Edited by michaelscott, 13 February 2008 - 08:54 PM.

[Rags847]

Did you really need to revive a 3 year old thread?

Hm, that's weird... I always just click "Active topics". I wonder why it showed this old thread as active.

Oh, I bet I clicked a link on the "Similar Topics" and then replied to it.

I'll be sure to check the date from now on.

When someone answers the poll qt the thread jumps to the top again.
And what's so bad about reviving a three year old thread if something useful is said about its content?

Edited by Rags847, 15 February 2008 - 04:12 PM.

[outsider]

I've only used piracetam and oxiracetam, and I love them both but they're different. For grasping concepts, oxi is better. Piracetam makes me feel very administrative, and verbal.

Well from a lot of experimenting from my part I can say that anyracetam is much better than piracetam and oxyracetam as far as understanding and verbal improvement are concerned.

So here is my contribution for this 3 years old thread, let's see if we can recycle it.

[jackinbox]

I've only used piracetam and oxiracetam, and I love them both but they're different. For grasping concepts, oxi is better. Piracetam makes me feel very administrative, and verbal.

Well from a lot of experimenting from my part I can say that anyracetam is much better than piracetam and oxyracetam as far as understanding and verbal improvement are concerned.

So here is my contribution for this 3 years old thread, let's see if we can recycle it.

At what dosage are you using Aniracetam? What's you schedule? You take it with any fat?

[hamishm00]

the DMAE you are taking will also supply the choline you need. So why take the other choline supplements?

[meursault]

Can we close this thread? It doesn't seem to have a purpose when every week someone decides to vote for their favorite racetam and it gets bumped to the top.

[LIB]

Can we close this thread? It doesn't seem to have a purpose when every week someone decides to vote for their favorite racetam and it gets bumped to the top.

I don't mean to be hostile but....Isn't it ironic when you complain about it getting bumped to the top when the last post was in Feb. until you replied and bumped it to the top?

[Ben]

Can we close this thread? It doesn't seem to have a purpose when every week someone decides to vote for their favorite racetam and it gets bumped to the top.

I don't mean to be hostile but....Isn't it ironic when you complain about it getting bumped to the top when the last post was in Feb. until you replied and bumped it to the top?

I don't mean to be hostile but....Isn't it ironic when you complain about complaining about it getting bumped to the top when the last post was in Sept. until you replied and bumped it to the top?

[Iam Empathy]

I don't mean to be hostile but....Isn't it ironic when you complain about complaining about it getting bumped to the top when the last post was in Sept. until you replied and bumped it to the top?

I don't mean to be hostile but....Isn't it ironic when you complain about complaining about it getting bumped to the top when the last post was in Sept. until you replied and bumped it to the top?

[Ben]

I don't mean to be hostile but....Isn't it ironic when you complain about complaining about it getting bumped to the top when the last post was in Sept. until you replied and bumped it to the top?

I don't mean to be hostile but....Isn't it ironic when you complain about complaining about it getting bumped to the top when the last post was in Sept. until you replied and bumped it to the top?

So close. You needed an extra 'complaining about' and we could have had a loop.

tsk tsk, nice try though.

Edited by Ben - Aus, 20 September 2008 - 06:33 AM.

[AtticusFinch]

Why do you suppose that most chose the standard piracetam over Pramiracetam?
- Atticus

[hamishm00]

Ohhh please...Can someone lock this thread.

Does anyone have the ear of the moderators here....

[taohansen]

Ohhh please...Can someone lock this thread.

Does anyone have the ear of the moderators here....

You need to stop whining. You're making this forum septic.

[AtticusFinch]

Ohhh please...Can someone lock this thread.

Does anyone have the ear of the moderators here....

You need to stop whining. You're making this forum septic.

Word Power! Haha.

[jackj]

Lately I take 400mg of Piracetam twice a day. I find it is best for me in that it can keep me focused and my thoughts seem very clear.

I also have some Aniracetam but rarely take it. I take 400mg of that when I do but I find it lasts only four hours and I don't get the same focus. It just seems to make me more creative and abstract (I don't really need that for my current job). Take that with a grain of salt as I haven't taken it in a number of months. I also understand the short half life and fat soluble thing. So Pira gets a + for simplicity because sometimes I don't have to time or means to source some kind of fat.

I have also been taking about 300mg of Pira while drinking. I usually don't drink ore than six beers when I do but it just seems to make me "more drunk" so I can still stay relatively sober. Does anyone know if this is a bad idea? ie. drugs and alcohol. I haven't seen any problems myself.

Also I started off (a year or more ago) taking Pira 1400mg twice or three times a day. I would also need to take a choline source at the same time otherwise I got bad headaches. I have found I prefer a smaller dose. I also found if I did this amount for a whole week I would end up with some kind of depressive episode for a day or so. This is another reason I lowered it. I dont' get it anymore but my dose is not regular.

Edited by jackj, 25 April 2009 - 09:20 AM.