45 replies to this topic

[ClarkSims]

I can buy 5g of the 99.5 for 160, or I can buy 1 g of the 99.95 for 115.

Is it worth the extra money to pay for the 99.95?

What are the impurities?

[anagram]

What extraction process did your source they use? The C60 I got is around 70% C60 with 28% C70 and 2% higher Fullerenes included, in the booklet they sent with it they discussed the extraction process as being key to getting Fullerenes specifically not just other carbon junk that might be extracted. I would guess that the impurities in the sample you are purchasing are simply higher Fullerenes, C70 probably makes up a large portion of the impure fraction.
A lot of people have purchased the same C60 as I and have had no immediate trouble, but karma gets you back eventually.. higher Fullerenes have been reported to cause muscle pains so you should probably try the purest version, we don't know what we are dealing with really and I was stupid to go for the cheapest one I could afford.

[zorba990]

At this stage it seems extremely risky to ingest anything but the purest stuff you can get.

[anagram]

At this stage it seems extremely risky to ingest anything but the purest stuff you can get.

That is definitely true, purchase the 99.95% pure C60 and give use feedback on results from your experiment.

-peace

[niner]

At the rate that I'm using c60-oo, one gram will last me about three years. If you do the math, the highest purity version works out to a little over ten cents a day, which makes it one of my cheapest supplements. The extraction solvent is probably toluene, which is not the worst chemical on the planet, but not one I care to ingest if I can help it. C60 that's crystallized from toluene solution will have some toluene intercalated in the crystal, according to a fullerene chemist who posted here a while back. The main impurity is C70, which is probably not dangerous in small quantities, but again, who knows and why take a chance for a few bucks? I went with the higher purity version, and it's just one less thing to worry about. It's bad enough being a human Guinea pig without adding more uncertainty.

[Logic]

What extraction process did your source they use? The C60 I got is around 70% C60 with 28% C70 and 2% higher Fullerenes included, in the booklet they sent with it they discussed the extraction process as being key to getting Fullerenes specifically not just other carbon junk that might be extracted. I would guess that the impurities in the sample you are purchasing are simply higher Fullerenes, C70 probably makes up a large portion of the impure fraction.
A lot of people have purchased the same C60 as I and have had no immediate trouble, but karma gets you back eventually.. higher Fullerenes have been reported to cause muscle pains so you should probably try the purest version, we don't know what we are dealing with really and I was stupid to go for the cheapest one I could afford.

NB:Turnbuckle had negative effects from this grade of C60/70..!
Perhaps this is why you seem to be getting some... er... very strange effects!?

[Andey]

I supply for free several elderly relatives of mine and few friends with C60oo and use 99.5 grade to lower cost for myself.
No problem at all, positive effects are at place, I dont think that with this consumption rate some impurities are matter. I use approx 0.5g/year, in worst case scenario C70 is 0.25% and 0.25% toluene.
its about 1.25 mg of toluene a year what is irrelevant really.
For example water standarts in Austaralia sets toluene content at

• for health: maximum of 0.8 mg/L (0.0008 g/L)
• for aesthetic reasons: maximum of 0.025 mg/L (0.000025 g/L)

http://www.environme...ok/toluene.html

So with 1.5 liter of drinking water(0.8 mg/L) you can get your year dosage of toluene from C60

Edited by Andey, 11 March 2013 - 12:44 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

What extraction process did your source they use? The C60 I got is around 70% C60 with 28% C70 and 2% higher Fullerenes included, in the booklet they sent with it they discussed the extraction process as being key to getting Fullerenes specifically not just other carbon junk that might be extracted. I would guess that the impurities in the sample you are purchasing are simply higher Fullerenes, C70 probably makes up a large portion of the impure fraction.
A lot of people have purchased the same C60 as I and have had no immediate trouble, but karma gets you back eventually.. higher Fullerenes have been reported to cause muscle pains so you should probably try the purest version, we don't know what we are dealing with really and I was stupid to go for the cheapest one I could afford.

NB:Turnbuckle had negative effects from this grade of C60/70..!
Perhaps this is why you seem to be getting some... er... very strange effects!?

Yes indeed. Even small amounts of C70 over a few days is very bad. Get the 99.95% and be happy.

[Logic]

What extraction process did your source they use? The C60 I got is around 70% C60 with 28% C70 and 2% higher Fullerenes included, in the booklet they sent with it they discussed the extraction process as being key to getting Fullerenes specifically not just other carbon junk that might be extracted. I would guess that the impurities in the sample you are purchasing are simply higher Fullerenes, C70 probably makes up a large portion of the impure fraction.
A lot of people have purchased the same C60 as I and have had no immediate trouble, but karma gets you back eventually.. higher Fullerenes have been reported to cause muscle pains so you should probably try the purest version, we don't know what we are dealing with really and I was stupid to go for the cheapest one I could afford.

NB:Turnbuckle had negative effects from this grade of C60/70..!
Perhaps this is why you seem to be getting some... er... very strange effects!?

Yes indeed. Even small amounts of C70 over a few days is very bad. Get the 99.95% and be happy.

Moderator/s:
This is a very important point as Anagram has been posting all sorts of strange effects for C60 when in actual fact almost a third of every dose he has taken has been C70..!
Am I correct Anagram?

I think it's imperative that his posts be edited to reflect this very important distinction!?

[ClarkSims]

Yes indeed. Even small amounts of C70 over a few days is very bad. Get the 99.95% and be happy.

I am very surprised. I would have expected C70 to be almost chemically identical to C60.
According to this paper the band gap for c70 is about 1.56 ev, as compared to 1.86 for C60. It should distribute the charge aromatically over the entire surface of the sphere / ellipsoid. It is almost the same size. If it is adducted to a fatty acid, it should do almost the same.

It should be even better at accepting and recycling electrons, than C60.

Do you have any insight on why C70 is not a good thing?

[ClarkSims]

I wrote SES and ask what are the primary impurities of the 99.5 C60. If it is benzene or some sort of highly toxic solvent,
I am definitely going with the 99.95 C60. I am still not clear on why C70 would be so different than C60.

If the primary contaminant is toluene, I could just wash it in everclear, crush it and let it soak a few days. Poor off the everclear, and let it dry.

[Turnbuckle]

Yes indeed. Even small amounts of C70 over a few days is very bad. Get the 99.95% and be happy.

I am very surprised. I would have expected C70 to be almost chemically identical to C60.
According to this paper the band gap for c70 is about 1.56 ev, as compared to 1.86 for C60. It should distribute the charge aromatically over the entire surface of the sphere / ellipsoid. It is almost the same size. If it is adducted to a fatty acid, it should do almost the same.

It should be even better at accepting and recycling electrons, than C60.

Do you have any insight on why C70 is not a good thing?

It's not just the 28% C70 in the SES extract, but also 2% higher fullerenes, and more toluene than the 99+% material since it's not vacuum baked. What the bad actor is I don't know, but I wouldn't fool around with it.

[ClarkSims]

This paper says that C70, is not as effective an antioxidant as c60. The author is as surprised as I am. I might by the paper.

http://www.tandfonli...=lfnn20#preview

[anagram]

I was carelessly using C60/C70 when I was seriously depressed and it really changed my honest perceptions of things. The "intense" effects I felt were unrelated to my real use of C70 in my opinion, plenty of people have used C70 and have reported things that are unrelated to what I faced, I think I exaggerated it quite a bit. I did however experience strange muscle tension and movement, it made it feel like my veins were moving inside which was uncomfortable. I believe it also had some anti-dopamiergic effect, but that was only at high dosing schedules. If you can grab anything from this its that you should try not to abuse supplements, especially the untested possibly toxic ones.




-peace

Edited by anagram, 11 March 2013 - 09:04 PM.

[xEva]

I got plain 99.9% which is not vacuum oven baked. So I put it on max overnight in our feeble toaster oven before I crushed it (I doubt it outputs more than 400F). The idea was that this was better than nothing. What effect could this have had in reality?

Edited by xEva, 12 March 2013 - 01:14 AM.

[Hebbeh]

I've gone through almost a gram of the 99.9% SES with nothing but positive effects. I'm going to order another gram soon.

[niner]

I got plain 99.9% which is not vacuum oven baked. So I put it on max overnight in our feeble toaster oven before I crushed it (I doubt it outputs more than 400F). The idea was that this was better than nothing. What effect could this have had in reality?

Air oxidation of the C60? I don't actually know how stable it is against air oxidation, but that's a thought.

The 99.9% grade is a good value- at $60/gm, it's only $15 more than 99.5%, but is only slightly over half the cost of 99.95% vacuum baked.

[xEva]

I got plain 99.9% which is not vacuum oven baked. So I put it on max overnight in our feeble toaster oven before I crushed it (I doubt it outputs more than 400F). The idea was that this was better than nothing. What effect could this have had in reality?

Air oxidation of the C60? I don't actually know how stable it is against air oxidation, but that's a thought.

Ouch. Does it mean that I made it worse instead? What happens when c60 is air oxidized?

[pleb]

I'm using the 99.5 percent with no problem,

C60 is spherical while C70 is shaped like a rugby ball and is longer on one axis the smallest axis being the same as C60 the long axis almost double that,
,
the small amount of toluene left in the mix is less than that allowed by the FDA in 1 litre of drinking water,

[niner]

I got plain 99.9% which is not vacuum oven baked. So I put it on max overnight in our feeble toaster oven before I crushed it (I doubt it outputs more than 400F). The idea was that this was better than nothing. What effect could this have had in reality?

Air oxidation of the C60? I don't actually know how stable it is against air oxidation, but that's a thought.

Ouch. Does it mean that I made it worse instead? What happens when c60 is air oxidized?

Maybe. These guys say:

The oxidation of C₆₀ solid was investigated using TGA, DTA, X-ray diffraction, FTIR, and optical microscopy. Oxidation reaction of solid C₆₀ commences at a temperature below 220 C, resulting in the formation of a polycondensate (PCS) with C:O = 5:1. The associated heat of formation Delta H_f is determined to be 9.2 kJ/g. From the isothermal investigations carried out between 220 and 240 C, the reaction mechanism is identified to be a two-dimensional nucleation and growth process. The PCS is found to undergo a structural modification without weight change beyond 220 C with an enthalpy change of 4.6 kJ/g. The PCS itself is found to consist of (1) a glassy carbon with an inter-microfibril distance of 3.78 Angstrom obtained with the destruction of the C₆₀ cage, (2) an amorphous C₆₀-O-C₆₀ complex characterized by the intermolecular distance of 15.04 Angstrom with an oxygen atom forming a bridge between two C₆₀ molecules, and (3) an unidentified crystalline phase with carbonyl bonds.

So you may have been on the verge of a temperature where oxidation is seen. An earlier paper says that oxidation susceptibility of high purity fullerenes is much better than lower purities. They said that a 99.5% c60 stood up very well against conditions that oxidized less pure samples.

[ClarkSims]

the small amount of toluene left in the mix is less than that allowed by the FDA in 1 litre of drinking water,

How do you know it is toluene, and not another solvent, like benzene?

I got a reply back from SES. The 99.5, C60 / total fullerene fraction. They don't include solvent numbers in the purity.


Purity is expressed of fullerene content compared to other carbon fullerenes content.
Tested by HPLC (High Performance Liquid Cartography)

C60, 99.5%
The impurities of 0.5%, is primary C70,

The 99.5% is not solvent free.

[xEva]

Thank you niner! Never again. I thought that heating it up would make the toluene to evaporate even without vacuum..

[pleb]

the small amount of toluene left in the mix is less than that allowed by the FDA in 1 litre of drinking water,

How do you know it is toluene, and not another solvent, like benzene?

I got a reply back from SES. The 99.5, C60 / total fullerene fraction. They don't include solvent numbers in the purity.


Purity is expressed of fullerene content compared to other carbon fullerenes content.
Tested by HPLC (High Performance Liquid Cartography)

C60, 99.5%
The impurities of 0.5%, is primary C70,

The 99.5% is not solvent free.

because i posted an FDA allowances on here some time ago possibly under making your own,the FDA allow more Toluene in 1 litre of water than the reported amounts in 1 gram of Fullerine and SES state in their literature that they use Toluene

Edited by pleb, 12 March 2013 - 06:26 PM.

[ClarkSims]

They wrote back about the solvents which were used. They used: Toluene, Hexanes, 123-ODB.
By 123-ODB, I assume she means 1,2,3 Trichlorobenzene.

http://chemicalland2...LOROBENZENE.htm

This sounds pretty bad. I guess I will go with the vacuum baked C60.

Edited by ClarkSims, 12 March 2013 - 07:47 PM.

[pleb]

if you look on their website they state they use toluene for the Buckminster fullirine, they also produce other carbon types as well and probably use the cheaper more toxic solvents on those,

[pleb]

you probably ingest more benzene from the fumes when filling your car than would be found in 1 gram of C60, even if they used that, your taking in more benzine just breathing even if you don't smoke,

Exposure of the general population to benzene occurs mainly through breathing, the major sources of benzene being tobacco smoke (about 50%) as well as automobile service stations, exhaust from motor vehicles and industrial emissions (about 20% altogether). According to the CDC, "The mean number of cigarettes per day (cpd) among daily smokers in 1993 was 19.6 (21.3 cpd for men and 17.8 cpd for women) and in 2004 was 16.8 (18.1 cpd for men and 15.3 cpd for women)." http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5444a2.htm According to the August 2007 Public Health Statement, the average smoker smokes 32 cpd, which in turn the average smoker would take in about 1.8 milligrams (mg) of benzene per day. This amount is about 10 times the average daily intake of benzene by nonsmokers.^[57

Edited by pleb, 12 March 2013 - 08:11 PM.

[ClarkSims]

if you look on their website they state they use toluene for the Buckminster fullirine, they also produce other carbon types as well and probably use the cheaper more toxic solvents on those,

Which page on their website are you talking about?
I found this page:

https://sesres.com/C...ilBuckyPrep.asp
This says:
Using only 500 ml of 100% strength toluene for the mobile phase and an elution time of 30 minutes, a researcher can separate 100 mg of higher fullerenes from this column in less than 8 hours.

But it doesn't say what they actually do in production.

[pleb]

the column is the production, if you look under making your own there's a complete breakdown on how its produced, the soot with approximately 10 percent fullirine is loaded into the column,

and then toluene added this mixes with the C60 c70 and comes out at the bottom into a container leaving most of the waste soot and other carbon behind,

,the c70 is normally purple as the c70 is heavier thus goes to the bottom first then the mix from the column turns from purple to red which is the mix of the two then fully red which indicates the majority is C60 they run it into another container,
the C60 in toluene is then centrifuged or evaporated to get rid of most of the toluene apart from the tiny amount that is almost impossible to remove without treating in an oven,

Edited by pleb, 12 March 2013 - 09:09 PM.

[anagram]

A daring person who was handy enough could use Toluene a phase intermediate in the transfer of C60 to olive oil, C60+OO seems to be still in the theoretical synthesis phase however I would be not to try anything dangerous and stick to the immediately feasible route.
A large concern for me is if Toluene oxidizes to benzylhyde and if benzylhyde forms a adduct with C60 which of course has unknown effects.

Edited by anagram, 12 March 2013 - 09:20 PM.

[pleb]

the amount your taking is minimal if you smoke there's more benzine which is far more toxic than Toluene in one cigarette you probably inhale more toxins just walking past a car with its engine running,
i can't understand this paranoia over very very tiny amount of toluene from people taking C60 which has almost no testing done on people only rats,