1565 replies to this topic

[zeropoint]

Golden you have coluracetam to compare this to-----how does it compare?

[golden1]

Golden you have coluracetam to compare this to-----how does it compare?

Hard question.

I would take coluracetam over this any day simply because they are, for me rather similar, but coluracetam has safety data on it where as I have no idea what the long term side effects of sunifiram could be. That said, I believe from trying them, both of them mainly work in very similar ways.. mainly as ampa receptor modulators and possibly acetylcholine stuff(but I think the bulk of the effects are from the former).

Coluracetam is more crisp feeling... where as sunifiram can be more "in your face." They both give energy and motivation, or rather motivation to use your energy. Coluracetam seemed to have a slightly lower "cap" to it's effects, but it still comes very close in the visual enhancement category. Sunifiram is without a doubt a better musical enhancer.

I hate to compare like this but it's alot like piracetam is to aniracetam(coluracetam being piracetam, sunifiram being aniracetam).

Basically they compare very similarly, but with many subtle differences that I really can't find the words for at the moment. Seem to last about the same length, but its hard to tell when either really wear off.

[SynergyStudent]

It may be too early to ask this but I am going to anyway. What is the mg/kg ratio that has yielded the best results for you? I have seen everything from 3mg up to 55mgx6 a day but I don't know body massee to go with them. I am 235 lb so I believe it will take a bit more for me.

[emckai]

It may be too early to ask this but I am going to anyway. What is the mg/kg ratio that has yielded the best results for you? I have seen everything from 3mg up to 55mgx6 a day but I don't know body massee to go with them. I am 235 lb so I believe it will take a bit more for me.

It's supposed to be 5mg per 150lbs. Obviously we're not following that ratio. I'll try to find the source.

Edited by emckai, 12 April 2013 - 02:50 AM.

[Isochroma]

135lbs here.

Now taking 15mg x 6/day Sunifiram with 5g x 6/day Piracetam.

[SynergyStudent]

It may be too early to ask this but I am going to anyway. What is the mg/kg ratio that has yielded the best results for you? I have seen everything from 3mg up to 55mgx6 a day but I don't know body massee to go with them. I am 235 lb so I believe it will take a bit more for me.

It's supposed to be 5mg per 150lbs. Obviously we're not following that ratio. I'll try to find the source.

Thank you I knew what it was suppose to be but I wanted to know the real world result range. Also thank you Iso for your willingness to push the limits to find the optimal dosage.

[renfr]

135lbs here.

Now taking 15mg x 6/day Sunifiram with 5g x 6/day Piracetam.

How is it going, still sleeping 5 hours per day?

I think sunifiram has been acting on me, here what happened :
- First dose at 7AM => nothing felt
- Second dose at 12PM => I started feeling very sleepy and started sleeping in the afternoon for 2 hours
- Tried sleeping at 10PM, I only slept 1h30 in total, I layed in bed trying to sleep but unable to, I was feeling both functional and tired.
During that time I made the first nightmare in months, there's a slighter incidence of dreams but I had one nightmare and truly an horrible one.
Slept 30 mins more and couldn't sleep anymore.
I slept in total about 4-5h, I feel currently wide awake with no need for sleep.
I wonder what causes this reduced sleep, I am scared that this is due to AMPA and NMDA activity, this could be excitotoxicity though my tinnitus hasn't increased at all (piracetam, oxi and ani on the contrary increases the intensity of my tinnitus), in fact I think it has reduced a bit.

[Introspecta]

Please don't try to say Sunifiram enhances music more than MDMA Golden.lol. While I do agree with the music appreciation to me its more on the lines of adderall rather than psychs and other more powerful drugs.

My sleep has drastically declined to roughly 4 hours unwillingly. It is a little annoying because while the drug may be keeping me alert my memory and reaction time will most likely suffer. Hard to say though.. I know they've done studies of sleep deprived people and say it builds up over time causing you to be slower and slower with reaction time and memory almost on par with an intoxicated person.

[golden1]

See I guess it matters how you define enhanced... the actual music is enhanced more than MDMA(which I've done pure at concerts and at home[and on psychedelics]). It isn't nearly as emotionally invoking or euphoric, but the actual sound is, for me, more enhanced than any other drug I've tried(this is over a $600+ headphone/tube amp/soundcard setup which is what I've used for the past 4 years.) Psychedelics enhance music, but they also crazily distort it spatially and usually appear to make it slower. Actually sure, I'll give it to you, other drugs make music more enjoyable and entrancing, but IME sunifiram's effect on the sound is actually more detailed and way way more 3D true to how the music was made. Note that was on a dose of 35-40mg and that I also find aniracetam to enhance music as well as weed...so.. I don't really believe it's that odd. I'll admit it's been awhile since I've done MDMA(I like my brain), but... psychedelics... all the time. I just tripped last week (30mg 2-ce, which is one of my favorite drugs to listen to music on) and was listening to the same tunes.. while they are much more emotionally emphasized and fun to listen to, when I heard music on sunifiram it was seriously amazing. Personally I'd greatly prefer crazily surreal and euphorically entrancing sound, but if I were say a producer or some mastering engineer.. sunifiram for sure. I'm no professional, but I've been making tracks in ableton for around 4 years, just when I get bored or inspired and sunifiram is pretty awesome for making music. Just trying to put it out there that if someone were to notice how perfect it enhances music, I'd be a pretty good candidate. But yeah I guess I don't want people thinking it can be compared to MDMA or psychedelics since theyre really completely different style enhancements. I hope that makes some sense. Typed a lot, but my sleep cycle has been messed up and I can't seem to fix it... sunifiram doesn't seem to be helping the situation either..lol...

[Psionic]

Double post

Edited by Psionic, 12 April 2013 - 10:50 AM.

[Psionic]

Through my scouring across the net, I came across this:

...One substance did produce a totally serendipitous effect on me. It reduced my sleep requirement from seven or eight hours to four hours, with no detectable side effects. I woke fully refreshed and literally could not sleep any longer. I SPECULATE, and I emphasize SPECULATE, that it altered my acetylcholine level. What is it? Hah! I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid. Maybe someday you'll get lucky and be approached by The Friendly Stranger..

This was taken from http://www.erowid.or...u4euh.notes.txt. This is pure speculation on my part, but I think that the author took Sunifiram. This was written circa 1987-1988~. When was Sunifiram first discovered/synthed?

FrizzRamble - it would be likely the author was referring to piracetam. Interesting read, though - the user comments he reports a few paragraphs prior to your quited text involving "subtle effects" and a need to take something for months on end ring just as true today as then.

No, I think he is referring to U4EUH (4-Methylaminorex) or Intellex itself becuase he mentions Friendly Stranger who defended the substance very well, I would call it real old school NZT.. remember reading about it 10 years ago and the experiences of the guys in 80´s with the substance are extraordinary and worth reading.


There is happening very friendly coincidences here, the paragraph above the discussed statement is also a comment on PLR-8-53:

PRL 8-53: If you read Pearson carefully, he describes two peoples'
experiences with it. I doubt he's tried it. Lack of consistency of effects
is a major problem with substances. I haven't tried it yet, but if it does
work, WOW! What will the Pigs be able to say as a justification for
scheduling it? Maybe "It gives the people who take it an unfair advantage
over those who don't."

The only issue is that U4EUH is scheduled and some form of kyanide is needed in synth, it has proven of having low neurotoxicity (lower than conventional stimulants) and the reports consists of people using it literally for months without side effects claiming it posses nootropic values.
I wonder if its possible to get in touch with someone with direct experience or are we getting to the stage where custom synthesis of desired compounds is within reach of fingertips?

[golden1]

I knew a couple people who've used 4-methylaminorex on a private _drug forum, they said it was just a very clean long lasting meth/amphetamine-like stimulant, which I'm inclined to believe is all that's to it. It's pretty easy to claim nootropic effects from stimulants especially when perceived as something special and novel. Although I myself have never tried it and I've lost contact with all the people on the private board when it closed down. I'm sure someone on bluelight would be able to answer w/ experience though.


edit: anyone know what the metabolites of sunifiram would likely be? or are there any studies on the metabolites?

Edited by golden1, 12 April 2013 - 11:36 AM.

[norepinephrine]

Edit: nevermind.

Edited by norepinephrine, 12 April 2013 - 03:17 PM.

[Psionic]

Edit: nevermind.

yes its possible (I am still surprised how experienced and knowledgeable were some people even it was 20 years ago), I took into account that he himself advocates the substance and the ending sentence of this paragraph was: "Maybe someday you'll get lucky and be approached by The Friendly Stranger.."

[Introspecta]

I am starting to have what it feels to be high blood pressure due to Sunifiram like someone else has mentioned. My face is considerly more flushed. I am lacking sleep big time and while not feeling terrible I do feel a tiny bit strung out... I will be taking a break from Suni for a few weeks. When I return I will try to dose lower and most likely less often. While the half life is short it feels as though this stuff builds up a little and the effects last much longer than 5 hours. I also notice some addicting qualities to this chemical but not very harmful. No where near the compulsion as amphetamines but enough to make me dose 5 times a day which I don't think is necessary. Interesting stuff though.I'm surprised to hear that some people didn't notice any effects. The effect was pretty profound for me.

[peakplasma]

I am starting to have what it feels to be high blood pressure due to Sunifiram like someone else has mentioned. My face is considerly more flushed. I am lacking sleep big time and while not feeling terrible I do feel a tiny bit strung out... I will be taking a break from Suni for a few weeks. When I return I will try to dose lower and most likely less often.

Even lower doses might be a problem. I take 8mg and I get a thermogenic "fever"-ish feeling along with slight cramps... are you sure its high BP related?

[golden1]

thanks for the update... sucks that there will never be safety studies on this. it's one thing with recreational drugs since they aren't something you take every day, but with nootropics which are usually used much more often the chances of some toxic effect building up are obviously more possible. I'm thinking I'm going to use this more on an as needed basis or if I'm going to walk in a park(to enhance perception) etc..

Weird though ... I've been taking 20-30mg and up to 120mg, never had a thermogenic/feverish/high bp feeling. Slight cramps yes, but I was also lowering my clonazepam dose, so I would expect that anyway(might not be the smartest thing to take when lowering clonazepam dosage(re: excess glutamate)... but I noticed nothing out of the ordinary, except some minor side effects from lowering the benzos(less side effects than without sunifiram... similar to aniracetam). Some studies seem to point that ampa modulators are neuroprotective against excitotoxicity, some say they have no effect, haven't seen much on negative interactions oddly.

I will agree it definitely feels like the stuff builds up and lasts longer than a day(not the main strong effects, but you can tell it's there..), then again so does aniracetam.

[Introspecta]

I can't say I know its high blood pressure but it feels on par with times my blood pressure was raised after doing prohormones and some other drugs. I never really got any thermogenic type effects the first 4-5 days but noticed my face getting and staying more red and today I was significantly more hot. I know its not very scientific but there clearly has been a slight heating up and possible over stimulation which may have been potentiated by pre-workout drink. I'm going to get off caffiene for the most part and trial this stuff again.. It was really nice at first but I think the lack of sleep caught up with me

[Isochroma]

My sleeplength is beginning to renormalize.

I'm up to six hours last night and feeling much better during the day.

Current data indicate there is a 75% chance I will be able to reach 100% circadian accomodation to Sunifiram at any dose.

[emckai]

I'll probably try this stack for a couple of days.

250mg Choline
25mg Noopept
50mg Sunifiram

I still haven't tried Sunifiram by itself yet.

[Artificiality]

I have tried sunifiram twice now with absolutely zero noticeable effects. I'll list out both times:

Yesterday, 4:30 PM, empty stomach took 10 MG and took a 30 minutes walk. Felt nothing.

Today, 3:00 PM I took 10 MG with lunch and didn't do anything active. Nothing to note here either.

I'm not sure whether I should up my dose, or perhaps I should try multi dosing it a day. I haven't responded to noots strongly in the past so I might just be a non responder. I should note that I have not felt any changes in my sleep pattern either.

[golden1]

I can't find a study that shows the sunifiram is a ampa allosteric modulator, just one that says the ampa receptors are involved... seems so odd that there is such little info on it.

Is it an agonist.. probably not if it has a cap on the effects I suppose.. otherwise I would imagine that taking 150+mg would have significant side effects being so high above the effective dose.

thoughts? did I just skim over the study that clarifies this or is it up in the air?

[renfr]

My experience with sunifiram doesn't seem really good due to extreme sleepiness in the afternoon.
Well I will try taking it just before going to sleep since it makes me sleepy, afterall isn't LTP formation critical during sleep?

[Dissolvedissolve]

Is it an agonist.. probably not if it has a cap on the effects I suppose.. otherwise I would imagine that taking 150+mg would have significant side effects being so high above the effective dose.

The racetams in general are (allosteric) modulators rather than simple agonists antagonists. If piracetam simply agonised NMDA receptors, there would be plenty of potential for toxicity. Instead, the racetams bind to the receptor on a different site than its primary agonists and change its affinity for agonists. So they're known as allosteric modulators.

So because racetams in general are allosteric modulators rather than agonists, there is a cap to the level of modulation they can achieve - due to their chemical structure and whatnot.

[chris106]

The racetams in general are (allosteric) modulators rather than simple agonists antagonists.

Not to beat a dead horse here, but I suppose this can be said for the Racerams in general then, too?

[emckai]

I'll probably try this stack for a couple of days.

250mg Choline
25mg Noopept
50mg Sunifiram

I still haven't tried Sunifiram by itself yet.

I just changed up the stack.
I did try 250mg Choline, 25mg Noopept and 50mg Sunifiram this morning and colors were extremely saturated.

Just now, I removed Choline because of what Isochroma said, and also it doesn't seem like I need any Choline. I've been just taking it for the hell of it.

Currently in per capsule
800mg Piracetam
30mg Noopept
50mg Sunifiram

(Noopept and Sunifiram are measured by microspoons (blue 10-15mg each heaping scoop))

[chung_pao]

What I've noticed with Sunifiram, and please tell me if you agree/disagree, is that it provides NO stimulation by itself.

It is after all a AMPAkine; working through positive allosteric modulation of AMPA receptors.
That being said, Sunifiram could be used effectively to potentiate any stimulation of these receptors that is occurring independently.

I've used Sunifiram very effectively this way; nearly "reversing" caffeine tolerance, potentiating the CILTEP stack, potentiating Aniracetam and making my workouts more fun and intense.

IMO, it should be used more as the "potentiator" that it is.

Edited by chung_pao, 14 April 2013 - 11:18 AM.

[renfr]

I ended up taking it at night just before going to sleep.
Not a lot of change in my sleeping time, I noticed that I neither wake up braindead neither energized, I just wake up normally.
Another thing is that my deep sleep time was two times longer than usual.

[golden1]

What I've noticed with Sunifiram, and please tell me if you agree/disagree, is that it provides NO stimulation by itself.

It is after all a AMPAkine; working through positive allosteric modulation of AMPA receptors.
That being said, Sunifiram could be used effectively to potentiate any stimulation of these receptors that is occurring independently.

I've used Sunifiram very effectively this way; nearly "reversing" caffeine tolerance, potentiating the CILTEP stack, potentiating Aniracetam and making my workouts more fun and intense.

IMO, it should be used more as the "potentiator" that it is.

I would agree and I feel like you can add natural stimulation to the list of things it potentiates. For example physical activity with mental stimulation certainly seems to bring out the stimulant-ness.

Also, I haven't taken it for 3 days and I'm pretty sure I still feel positive effects and enhanced color(this is after taking it only 3 days). Also if I have the attitude that I want to stay awake it seems like I can for a much longer time without feeling like I'm tired.

[peakplasma]

What I've noticed with Sunifiram, and please tell me if you agree/disagree, is that it provides NO stimulation by itself.

That wouldn't conform to the observation of high blood pressure?

Has anyone actually confirmed an increase in blood pressure through a cuff? Could someone with a BP monitor please confirm?

I would hate to see such a promising nootropic plagued by potential cardiac issues.

Edit: btw, i'm inclined to agree with your idea regarding NO stimulation although I'm not sure how that is consistent with the thermogenic side effects i'm experiencing

Edited by peakplasma, 14 April 2013 - 03:55 PM.