1565 replies to this topic

[Stormy]

Am I the only one getting really depressed when I come down from Suni? It is really strong and not triggered by any personal circumstances. It's usually gone by the next day but I find it's making me want to write sunifram off in favor of piracetam or phenylpiracetam which are much more predictable.

I'm getting this too. It's more of an anxious sort of depression, and I've experienced it during the comedown every time I've tried Suni except for the first* (my fourth Suni experience was today). It's not giving me suicidal tendencies, making me trip out, or doing anything else I'd considered dangerous, but it's not at all pleasant, to say the least! Having caffeine in my system does seem to lessen the negative effects, but doesn't eliminate them entirely.

*I can't say for certain whether I experienced it the first time or not. I ended up going out with friends for a drink before I'd completely come down, and I'm an extremely happy, upbeat person when I drink, not to mention incredibly spacey - so although I don't recall experiencing ill effects, there are too many variables at play to say one way or another. The other three times though - definitely.

[abelard lindsay]

Am I the only one getting really depressed when I come down from Suni? It is really strong and not triggered by any personal circumstances. It's usually gone by the next day but I find it's making me want to write sunifram off in favor of piracetam or phenylpiracetam which are much more predictable.

how long from when you dose do you start getting depressed? oh and does it happen after just 1 isolated dose or over a couple days of taking it and then stopping?

The depression started about 8 hours after I took it and lasted overnight. It was after 3 days of taking it everyday. I wonder what the mechanism of action could be? My best guess was that it was a serotogenic depression (anxious, ruminating, anhedonic) as I wasn't grumpy (gaba) or lacking in motivation (dopamine) or scatter-brained (cholinergic). Also, idebenone, which is very serotogenic was pretty good at snapping me out of it. Anyway. I think I'll leave this one alone for now.

[golden1]

ampa receptor downregulation maybe?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17430149

AMPA receptors in the therapeutic management of depression.

Bleakman D, Alt A, Witkin JM.

Source

Eli Lilly and Company, Neuroscience Discovery Research, Lilly Corporate Center, Indianapolis, Indiana 46285, USA. Bleakman_david@lilly.com

Abstract

There is an increasing body of evidence implicating a role for alpha-amino-3-hydroxy-5-methyl-4 isoxazoleproprionic acid (AMPA) receptors in major depression and in the actions of antidepressant drugs. Alterations in AMPA receptors and other ionotropic glutamate receptors have been reported in depression, and following antidepressant treatment. Compounds which augment signaling through AMPA receptors (AMPA receptor potentiators) exhibit antidepressant-like behavioral effects in animal models, and produce neuronal effects similar to those produced by currently available antidepressants, including neurotrophin induction and increases in hippocampal progenitor cell proliferation. Additionally, the antidepressant fluoxetine has been found to alter AMPA receptor phosphorylation in a manner that is expected to increase AMPA receptor signaling. Data from mutant mice suggest that AMPA receptors may regulate the expression of brain-derived neurotrophic factor, a neurotrophin which has been implicated in the actions of antidepressant therapies. Combined, these data suggest that AMPA receptors may be in a key position to regulate mood disorders, and that compounds which target AMPA receptors may prove useful in the clinical management of depression.

[golden1]

Also wanted to note that I stopped taking it for ~12 hours+ now to test if that happened to me, no depression yet here.

[Artificiality]

Alright so after taking ~20 mg two times yesterday, after a long break I did get some rather odd but very interesting effects. It's hard to describe what I felt from it, but I'll start off by saying that I felt as though Sunifiram altered my subconscious more than my actual conscious.

I'll start off with the more "nootropic" like effects I recieved from Sunifiram, before getting into the the stranger effects. After taking it I felt a slight increase in mood, things were slightly more enjoyable. I also felt a slight increase in energy, but more of a clear awake kind of energy, not the jittery caffeine type. I did not experience any color perception change, if I did it was too subtle to notice, nor did I experience any perceived increase in intelligence, besides some long term memory recall.

Now here is the interesting part. As some people have mentioned on here, they have noticed some sort of increase core warmth. I too felt this very slightly throughout the day, however, when I went to bed last night I could feel it stronger. As soon as I got into my bed I could feel some sort of warmth running through my legs. This was a feeling I recognized, something I had felt often in the past. After a couple of minuted I connected it to how I used to feel when I went to bed a some years ago.
It had slowly faded as I grew older, at such a slow pace that I didn't even realize it was something I had lost, until I felt it again.

This is when I connected the altered subconsciousness to a younger version of myself. This is very hard to describe, but I felt as though the way my mind unconsciously perceived things had changed. The initial feelings which affect my thought pattern had been changed. As an example, when looking at a picture of some scenery, or some sort of character, I felt some sort of subconscious feeling that triggered thoughts of longing, hope, dreams etc, depending on the picture. This happened very often in the past, but is something else that I feel like I lost from my youth. When I look at a picture I can appreciate the beauty and art, but that magical feeling is gone. I feel as though Sunifiram brought that back to my subconscious.

I am in my early to mid twenties, so I speculate that perhaps people noticed these things, but were unable to remember/connect them to the past. Something else that I have been pondering, is that perhaps the saturated color is something we lose eventually as we age. As I don't feel that I have lost much, if any of my color perception, it wasn't anything that was brought back.

[brendan1]

Great post, thanks for sharing..

[Amorphous]

golden1, on 28 April 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:


abelard lindsay, on 28 April 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

Am I the only one getting really depressed when I come down from Suni? It is really strong and not triggered by any personal circumstances. It's usually gone by the next day but I find it's making me want to write sunifram off in favor of piracetam or phenylpiracetam which are much more predictable.
how long from when you dose do you start getting depressed? oh and does it happen after just 1 isolated dose or over a couple days of taking it and then stopping?


Zembrin is an antidepressant with SSRI effect. You guys are taking it everyday in CILTeP protocol. Is it possible it contribute to the comedown effect of Suni? I have used Suni (5-10mg) everyday with weekend off without any problem. I will start CILTeP/kanna extract with Suni to see how it goes. I have just ordered Idebenone just in case

[paul]

Has anyone had any experiences with higher doses of sunifiram. I have experimented up to 100mg in one dose and 200mg in 6 doses in a day and seems to have had a stronger effect. In the studies they tested on mice/rats up to 1mg kg so I figured with a our brains being slightly more powerful and having more AMPA receptors this dose increase may be effective. Please be aware that I have been taking 40mg memantine daily, an NMDA antagonist daily for the last 8 months and 10ml daily of cerebrolysin, both of which may protect against glutamate excitotoxicity. I have also added ethylphenidate in doses up to 150mg daily, although during this final sprint to the end must admit its been higher, also modafinil and noopept with no harmful effects, although I hate the over stimulated feeling but am putting up with it as in the middle of my medicine degree final exams, and due to extremely poor performance in my last set (without the use of this regime and basically doing no study in the last 5 years having life changing family problems to adapt to I have had to literally work without sleep for the last 4 months, increasing the cerebrolysin dose to 20mls daily has helped greatly during extremely pressured times and has allowed me to not have to raise the ethylphenidate dose to high (wish I could use something safer but law says I can't) I am looking forward to ditching the stimulants, but will still use them But only as I have to, unless run into side effects, so far no problems besides a tremor when overstimulated. Looking forward to trying IRDA-21 if anyone knows a supplier. Right my last exams to prepare for 5years info to cram in just a few days! Have enjoyed reading many blogs here since I rediscovered the site, haven't used it since it was called imminst and a guy called Lifemirage was the guru, is he still around anyone know?

Edited by paul, 30 April 2013 - 02:10 PM.

[violetechos]

So it wasn't just me with the mania and depression from sunifiram? Creeped me out...

this is such an entertaining thread.

[MangekyōPeter]

Got my Sunifiram and Nefiracetam today from vantagecc.

Dosed 400mg Nefi at about 13:00 for the first time ever, felt a cool calmness and no side effects as far as I could tell.

Then at 19:00 took 5-7 mg of Sunifiram, and wow, feeling so purely energetic, drank a coffee on top and am feeling superb.

The most obvious effect that I could note was that my reading speed, rather the speed at which I could still comprehend most of what I read increased for about 60 - 80% which is a very awesome thing indeed.

Plus I've been having a slight fever and a sore throat for the past 3 days, but after dosing today my temperature fell to my normal baseline temperature and I'm feeling better overall, but that might be attributed to general well being that these racetams could be producing.

Also the ability to focus has (as others have noted too) increased, and as someone who has ADHD I hope that these effects will remain and I won't build a mystical tolerance to Suni.

Will report tomorrow after my second dosage.

And yeah, I could say that I'm feeling manic too, to be honest. :D

+

Cannabis doesn't seem to cause any adverse reactions, and although I do feel some anxiety, which I sometimes get while toking up, it's way into the background and easily tolerable.

Edited by marekso, 30 April 2013 - 06:11 PM.

[Isochroma]

My lovely souls... I haveth news for yea all:

As of today {Racetam Prices: April 30.3, 2013} I have added Sun Nootropic as a new Sunifiram supplier!

The prices including EMS fee to my address are: $220.99/100g, $369.76/200g, $807.10/500g, $1,545.41/kg.

[renfr]

My lovely souls... I haveth news for yea all:

As of today {Racetam Prices: April 30.3, 2013} I have added Sun Nootropic as a new Sunifiram supplier!

The prices including EMS fee to my address are: $220.99/100g, $369.76/200g, $807.10/500g, $1,545.41/kg.

How much you're gonna buy? 1KG?

[Rethar]

I took a break from sunifiram (6days since my last dose) and I'm STILL feeling effects from it. Previously I took it for 5 days, 1.5days off on the weekend, then another 5 days, 10mg TID for most of the time. Either sunifiram has a ridiculously long halflife or it does make some longterm change. It has felt somewhat like the remaining effects are slowly going away but I can't tell at this point.

The effects remaining:

Senses still feel more sensitive. Colors are still looking more vibrant to me. Sounds have more impact.

I feel slight thermogenesis every now and then even when I'm not in a hot environment.

Increased confidence. While the effect of having things not bother me as much, e.g. not caring about "social failures" or not caring what other people think has gone, it's like I still remember how it is to be totally confident from the sunifiram and that pretty much stays. It's odd though since it's like the increased confidence contradicts with how much I get bothered by social stuff( I have social anxiety disorder), so odd mix.

I kind've wonder how long this increased color/music/sound effect will last. It's a bit freaky thinking it could just stay like this, whenever I've had the vibrant colors from piracetam/aniracetam/other racetams it's always faded after a few hours.

[therein]

I am still trying to figure out how exactly to use Sunifiram. Tried small doses, tried medium sized doses and mega doses. I either get a spaced out feeling or nothing at all. Are you guys sure that it has no dopaminergic effect at all?

I have been using stimulants and obviously I've developed some tolerance. I'm wondering if there is cross-tolerance between Sunifiram and dopaminergic stimulants. That would explain a lot. Many people here are getting cognitive benefits from it and I don't think I'm getting anything close to those. How about cross-tolerance with Piracetam?

Left part of the molecule looks similar to amphetamines but of course that doesn't mean that it should work through the same mechanism since we don't even know Sunifiram's pharmacophore. If it was Acetophenone would be a stimulant.

Edited by therein, 01 May 2013 - 02:07 AM.

[Isochroma]

I could still see the enhanced colour saturation in streetlights three weeks after stopping my last Oxiracetam run.

Sunifiram is supposed to be good for LTP so it better last at least three weeks!

And talking about OXI, I just bought 200g of it today from Sun Nootropic!

It will come fast thru EMS speedmail, and then I will stack it with Sunfiram and report back to this thread how the combo works.

[500mg Oxiracetam + 25mg Sunifiram] x 6/day

[health_nutty]

[500mg Oxiracetam + 25mg Sunifiram] x 6/day

Why do you dose 6 times a day? Isn't that a very large dose???

[vali]

I've tried sunifram 3 or so times now. Oddly enough I found the effect on my vision was stronger than colourcetam. Otherwise, it didn't have much of an effect on me. 20 mg makes me depressed afterwards; I'm sticking to the smaller dosages.

[owtsgmi]

I've tried sunifram 3 or so times now. Oddly enough I found the effect on my vision was stronger than colourcetam. Otherwise, it didn't have much of an effect on me. 20 mg makes me depressed afterwards; I'm sticking to the smaller dosages.

How would you compare sunifiram to coluracetam? Are you keeping coluracetam in your stack?

[Steve Zissou]

This is when I connected the altered subconsciousness to a younger version of myself. This is very hard to describe, but I felt as though the way my mind unconsciously perceived things had changed. The initial feelings which affect my thought pattern had been changed. As an example, when looking at a picture of some scenery, or some sort of character, I felt some sort of subconscious feeling that triggered thoughts of longing, hope, dreams etc, depending on the picture. This happened very often in the past, but is something else that I feel like I lost from my youth. When I look at a picture I can appreciate the beauty and art, but that magical feeling is gone. I feel as though Sunifiram brought that back to my subconscious.

I am in my early to mid twenties, so I speculate that perhaps people noticed these things, but were unable to remember/connect them to the past. Something else that I have been pondering, is that perhaps the saturated color is something we lose eventually as we age. As I don't feel that I have lost much, if any of my color perception, it wasn't anything that was brought back.

I know exactly what you mean. I did not feel this from sunifram, but I have felt this from cannabis before, and it's my favourite thing about it. For me a it's a feeling, say I'm walking home through the streetlights and I will get a feeling that I haven't felt since I was a kid. I will feel the same emotions and have the same feeling/valeus about life. It's an amazing feeling.

[pkstrl0rd]

Anyone have any ideas for combatting the depression or should this substance be cycled?

[golden1]

I don't get any depression, but yes it should be cycled because we don't really know if it is safe.

[Steve Zissou]

I will also note that I tried higher dose of 20-30mg and was stimulated all day, I had trouble getting to sleep and woke up the next day feeling extremely tired and lethargic, even after 20mg. After a few hours I woke up from my lethargic and am feeling an 'afterglow' of sorts. I feel like this substance does have permanent effects.

Isochroma should email that italian scientist again and tell him to participate in this thread. I would be interested in hearing his thoughts about how people react to this substance.

[owtsgmi]

Anyone have any ideas for combatting the depression or should this substance be cycled?

I think if you drop back on the dose, the come-down effects will be lessened. I am now experimenting with 5-10mg every other morning and it seems to be working well. Still getting used to the sleep issues though.

[health_nutty]

Anyone have any ideas for combatting the depression or should this substance be cycled?

I think if you drop back on the dose, the come-down effects will be lessened. I am now experimenting with 5-10mg every other morning and it seems to be working well. Still getting used to the sleep issues though.

The dosing variations on this are amazing. From 5-10mg every other day to 25mg SIX times a day!

[owtsgmi]

Anyone have any ideas for combatting the depression or should this substance be cycled?

I think if you drop back on the dose, the come-down effects will be lessened. I am now experimenting with 5-10mg every other morning and it seems to be working well. Still getting used to the sleep issues though.

The dosing variations on this are amazing. From 5-10mg every other day to 25mg SIX times a day!

Yeah, but I think the latter dosage is a huge outlier. Iso's brain seems to have an amazing ability to process large amounts of noots on a daily basis.

[middpanther88]

What is the consensus on sunifram and other racetams?

[therein]

The only consensus we have reached so far is that there is no consensus here.

[Bismarck]

What is the consensus on sunifram

From my own experience and what was written in this thread I conclude that doses of about 10mg a day seem to give people a good experience with no major side effects.

At large doses people start to experience problems with sleep, mania, depression and overstimulation as sideeffects and there is a theoretical risk of excitotoxicity especially when combined with other drugs that potentially effect glutamate.

Edited by Bismarck, 01 May 2013 - 07:12 PM.

[renfr]

What is the consensus on sunifram and other racetams?

Semi-permanent effects from sunifiram use?

[Reformed-Redan]

Does anyone want my Sunifiram 1g? Just pushing it for $15, shipping included. Just tried it twice at 3 mg.

It's from newstarnootropics.