So I could say... Sunifiram is as potent d-amphetamine and that would be correct in this context? It would make more sense to compare sunifiram to another 'ram or 'tam , instead of a glycine modulator (noopept)... Based on the high dosages that seem to be in vogue. I think it is irresponsible to recommend such high dosages.
25mgs is ridiculous for this one. I would not recommend over 3 mgs at the most. Less is more with this stuff.
Just wanted to clarify a bit, because this whole potency/efficacy issue with Sunifiram and other more potent nootropics keeps coming up in various places here and on reddit...
Potency = a measure of the amount of a substance required to achieve the desired effect in the average member of a treated population. It is an amount of drug, that is all. The effect tested in this case is increased mental performance. Potency for a given drug is measured in comparison to another substance that is being evaluated for the same effect, and is usually compared to the [Km] of the reference substance--aka the "Gold Standard," Piracetam. [Km] is the concentration of a drug that equals 1/2 the amount of drug that achieves the maximum effect for a substance. (Maximum effect is the concentration of the drug at "E-max," where the no greater effect can be produced in the organism, and in the case of racetams, there's often a dropoff/decrease in effect past a certain point). Basically, if "X" is a new, more potent drug it will be able to produce a measurable effect (i.e. rat navigates maze a given speed) that measures equal to the effect produced by the Gold Standard (Piracetam) at Piracetam's [Km] but at a much lower concentration than Piracetam can achieve.
Efficacy = This concept is probably even more important. It is the measure of drug concentration where the maximum possible effect has been obtained. Known as E-max in pharmacology, or V-Max in enzyme kinetics--where this whole concept is derived from.
Both of these concepts are common in pharmacology and are based on the Michaelis-Menten enzyme kinetics paradigm.
Michaelis-Menten Enzyme Kinetics:
http://en.wikipedia....Menten_kineticsPotency:
http://en.wikipedia...._(pharmacology)Efficacy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficacy------------------------------------------
In the case of Sunifiram, it was tested along with numerous potential nootropic compounds-- with Piracetam as the "gold standard" in a rat population. That population was being tested in their performance on a set of standardized tasks that have been inferred to measure cognitive performance, memory, etc. As is standard in these studies, the rats were treated with Scopolamine to chemically induce amnesia and thereby reduce the test performance--simulating brain injury, for example. Each of the nooptropic drugs was evaluated in its ability to reverse the effects of Scopolamine. Several tests were performed to determine the potency of Sunifiram. However, an E-Max does not appear to have been tested. Regardless, and important thing to note here is that none of these drugs were tested in their ability to produce a biochemical effect at a given concentration. In fact, there's not firm consensus on exactly how the biochemical effects (drug mechanisms) of the racetams and other nooptropics actually work. There are many strong theories, and many indirect measurements have been made-- i.e. hippocampal arborization, BDNF/NGF upregulation, etc... all measures that we indirectly assume to be related to producing a desired nootropic effect. Regardless, nearly all of these tests showing potency/efficacy/clinical use of these drugs are based on an observation of behavioral changes and mental performance on standardized testing after drug treatment. We can measure the forest, but not the trees.
The results in the first major study of Sunifiram measured MINIMUM effective concentration in the rats.
The concentration for Piracetam was 30mg/kg, which produced a test retention delta of 91.2 seconds.
(I'm a 6'0" human male and medical student. I weigh 81kg. This is about like me taking 2.4g of Piracetam, which is an accurate correlation to when I really notice a very significant improvement in my own performance.)
The concentration of Sunifiram used to achieve a similar effect in the rats was 0.001mg/kg. The retention delta was 71 seconds. Not quite as great as Piracetam, but they were looking for a minimum effect, so that's kind of irrelevant.
(This is about like me taking 0.081 mg of Sunifiram. An immeasurably small amount, impossible to weigh/scoop. However this suggests an extremely high potency.)
Other studies seem to show a slowly increasing effect with Sunifiram beyond that tiny, potent dosage. One study showed 1mg/kg with some pretty good looking effects on the mice. That's about 81mg for me, which seems high, but the mice didn't have a problem with it. So far, the 5mg dosage seems to produce a nice, albeit short-lived, effect on my studying. Regardless, I haven't seen a good study showing efficacy in comparison to Piracetam as of yet. Just because it's a potent drug, doesn't mean the peak effect of the drug on cognitive function will be better than Piracetam, and so far my own subjective experience with it has shown Piracetam and Pramiracetam (even more so) to be superior for studying.
Because of what feels like a very short half life, I have been taking about ~20mg of Sunifiram and mixing it into a large sport drink along with my other noots (4g Piracetam, 400mg Pramiracetam, choline, caffeine, multivitamin powder). I drink this slowly, and steadily throughout the day as a maintenance dose to my morning dose of 2.4g of Piracetam. This isn't part of my normal stack, but when I do use it, this seems to work best for me.
LongeCity
