1565 replies to this topic

[xsiv1]

Yeah, I think at this point Golden1 was trying to get a brief description of what those who've experienced adverse effects in one post for posterity reasons and harm reduction. The thing is, many people will visit this thread long after we're done with Sunifiram and reading your post above Climactic (voted both of you up if it makes any difference) is a fine contribution my friend. I'm really hoping that your symptoms abate spontaneously soon. I'm sure others are feeling the same. Many have tried Suni without any adverse events to speak of which always leads to the question of whether your part of a 'batch' was somehow contaminated or were the effects cause exclusively by the compound that everyone else has been using to some degree. Regardless of the cause (which, personally, I believe is Suni-related) if nothing else is taken from this thread, it's most certainly - proceed with caution.

[Geoffrey]

Just to point out that there is a "Sunifiram side effects thread" and that if people want to post their reports using Golden1's format above, it would be more useful to other forum members to have them gathered in the dedicated thread there rather than having them interspersed with lots of other discussion across 39 pages (and growing) in this thread, where I fear they'll get lost. That's why I started the other thread.

Climactic, I don't at all doubt your symptoms, but given that lots of us have been taking sunifiram on a regular basis now, and mixing it with things such as modafinil and other racetams, with no ill effects other than the mild side effects listed in the side-effect thread, and given that mice exposed to very large doses showed no ill effects or biochemical changes in the tests run by the Italian team, you'll understand that we can't just condemn sunifiram out of hand and close the case. Your cautionary experiences are a very important contribution, but I for one still feel that sunifiram and unifiram warrant further investigation. Having a rash of people popping up and saying things like "I felt weirdly spaced-out, man, I think it was excitotoxicity" isn't exactly helping us discern fact from suggestibility (NB, that's NOT a caricature of you, Climactic -- your posts are serious and salutary -- but I do get that feeling about a few other reports.)

It would be good to know what happened to Isochroma. As suni's greatest fan (and most prolific "lab-rat" here), his silence since the "cancer scare" thing, and since the "excitotoxicity" reports, is a little ominous...

[Babychris]

what about smoking it ? I just tried it now and to be honest, it's maybe the best experience I had with this stuff.

I'm a bit concern about potential toxicity, of suni combustion metabolites, but I was expecting that with such low doses it shouldn't hurt that much. Nevertheless I'm aware that this kind of statement are quite hasardous, and of course I know that there's no strict correlation beetween dosage and toxicity.. Anyway.

If anyone has enough science to give me his opinion above this ROA, because it could be my new way for taken this stuff, which give me usually some bad side effects.

[Philosopher]

what about smoking it ? I just tried it now and to be honest, it's maybe the best experience I had with this stuff.

I'm a bit concern about potential toxicity, of suni combustion metabolites, but I was expecting that with such low doses it shouldn't hurt that much. Nevertheless I'm aware that this kind of statement are quite hasardous, and of course I know that there's no strict correlation beetween dosage and toxicity.. Anyway.

If anyone has enough science to give me his opinion above this ROA, because it could be my new way for taken this stuff, which give me usually some bad side effects.

Have you considered combining it with dried apple skins and smoking that? I heard they are highly synergistic.

That was a joke. Please stop smoking that stuff, or any stuff for that matter.

[xsiv1]

what about smoking it ? I just tried it now and to be honest, it's maybe the best experience I had with this stuff.

I'm a bit concern about potential toxicity, of suni combustion metabolites, but I was expecting that with such low doses it shouldn't hurt that much. Nevertheless I'm aware that this kind of statement are quite hasardous, and of course I know that there's no strict correlation beetween dosage and toxicity.. Anyway.

If anyone has enough science to give me his opinion above this ROA, because it could be my new way for taken this stuff, which give me usually some bad side effects.

That is kind of funny man. Smoked it heh. But yeah, even in small amounts, I wouldn't expose my lungs to it. Thanks for the link to the other thread Geoffrey.

[mkUltra999]

Really? Smoking it? What don't you cook it up and shoot it? To me, when people say they are snorting or smoking nootropics, I get the feeling that they are looking for some psychoactive effect from it. That's drug-of-abuse behavior, is it not? It just sounds aburd to me that anyone would ingnite a failry unkwon chemical, breath it into their lungs, and pretend that the risks don't FAR outweigh the benefits. Maybe if you feel the need to smoke or snort nootropics, you are kind of barking up the wrong tree....

[Babychris]

And but if "eating" it give me if not just; then a lot of side effects, which I got not when smoking.

It's like my liver couln't metabolise it, obvisouly I don't know exactly why someone respond well and other one not to some nootropics, it may include some complex reason.

[Climactic]

And but if "eating" it give me if not just; then a lot of side effects, which I got not when smoking.

Which side effects?

I can understand vaping it (in much lower and slower doses), but not smoking it.

For what it's worth, have you tried sublingual?

[deeptrance]

...we can't just condemn sunifiram out of hand and close the case. Your cautionary experiences are a very important contribution, but I for one still feel that sunifiram and unifiram warrant further investigation.

Excellent. Imagine if lamotrigine (AKA Lamictal) were available online without a prescription, with a dearth of research into its effects. Some people would have a positive experience, some people would not benefit nor have any problem with it, and a very tiny minority would break out in a severe rash with potentially fatal consequences. The fact that a few react severely doesn't negate the fact that a far greater number of people may benefit from the drug. I think this is somewhat the case with sunifiram, minus the "potentially fatal" danger.

For a very small minority, negative effects of suni may be severe enough to warrant a great deal of caution, but I think we've zeroed in on some factors that could predispose individuals to that type of reaction and hopefully we will be able to generate an informal guide to help people predict how likely they are to receive benefits and/or experience negative consequences from experimentation. It would be lovely if we could do this for all of the supplements discussed on this forum. There are clear patterns in the responses that people have to various substances; the more data we can compile about these responses within and across individuals, the better we'll be able to make an educated guess as to the reasons for said reactions.

It would be good to know what happened to Isochroma. As suni's greatest fan (and most prolific "lab-rat" here), his silence since the "cancer scare" thing, and since the "excitotoxicity" reports, is a little ominous...

IKR, it's very unsettling. Maybe he has achieved a level of transcendental bliss and detachment wherein web forums are but quaint relics of a primitive depressed plane of existence.

Edited by deeptrance, 27 June 2013 - 11:04 PM.

[98NSX]

I've had better [cambridge sciences] memory scores on Pram+Ani. Need to retrial (wayyy too many variables today.)

Yes to initial stimulant effect that wore off literally within 45 minutes of testing.

Interesting...
I'm actually new to nootropics and I am learning about them.
I read somewhere that this could be an adderall alternative.
Would you say the initial stimulant effect comes close to a Adderall like effect?

[zongler007]

I dont know how Aderral work, but in first week when i took more then 40mg it was very strong stimulation feeling but after 2 weeks of this dosing i must make a break becouse is stop work at me like at start.

[spookytooth]

I've had better [cambridge sciences] memory scores on Pram+Ani. Need to retrial (wayyy too many variables today.)

Yes to initial stimulant effect that wore off literally within 45 minutes of testing.

Interesting...
I'm actually new to nootropics and I am learning about them.
I read somewhere that this could be an adderall alternative.
Would you say the initial stimulant effect comes close to a Adderall like effect?

I have taken Sunifiram only a few times and found it to be nowhere as stimulating as methylphenidate or (prescribed) amphetamines.
I will most likely not take it again due to the negative reports. Unconnected to these reports I did not find Sunifiram worthwhile and will try to get my hands on some phenylpiracetam as an alternative to traditional stimulants.

[Sunwind]

Anyone who ordered Sunifiram from NSN, did you guys get an email back from them about tracking information or anything about your item being shipped? I didn't get anything.

Yes, I got a confirmation email and a tracking number with mine. I'm in the UK, ordered on the 17th, still waiting. Hoping it comes on Monday.

[Introspecta]

I noticed with NSN that sometimes when you order the very first size of the item that when you add it to your cart it checks out at 0 dollars. So you make the transaction for 0 dollars and NSN doesn't send the product. I missed Unifiram do to this glitch in there system. Might want to check to make sure the money came out of your account. If so then your good but if not then you probably bought the product for 0 dollars.. I found that clicking on the next size then clicking back on the first size sometimes fixes the glitch.

[Sunwind]

My 10g Sunifiram from NSN arrived and I took between 1-3mg sublingually, very hard to weigh such a small amount without very expensive scales, but I added some to the scales and it fluctuated between 4-5mg, and based on a visual determination of that amount, and what I took, I would estimate that what I took to be between 1-3mg.

What's the time until onset of action, usually? (I'll probably find out before anyone replies, but whatever - I'll update later)

Edited by Sunwind, 01 July 2013 - 12:05 PM.

[Sunwind]

I can't edit my post for some reason (why is the forum setup this way???) but so far the only thing I have noticed is seeing what I can only describe as brief sparkles of light passing in front of my vision, however I only saw these when I was looking at my computer screen with a predominantly white background - not sure what's going on here to cause this, but haven't felt anything else. Also it bears mentioning that the first day I took Piracetam I saw these sparkles of light, too. And haven't since then. I'm going to try a little more, staying 5mg or under now.

Edited by Sunwind, 01 July 2013 - 03:26 PM.

[xsiv1]

I can't edit my post for some reason (why is the forum setup this way???) but so far the only thing I have noticed is seeing what I can only describe as brief sparkles of light passing in front of my vision, however I only saw these when I was looking at my computer screen with a predominantly white background - not sure what's going on here to cause this, but haven't felt anything else. Also it bears mentioning that the first day I took Piracetam I saw these sparkles of light, too. And haven't since then. I'm going to try a little more, staying 5mg or under now.

I'll be keeping an eye on your posts as I'm going to go this very way. Slow and methodical.

[Sunwind]

I fell asleep not long after my second dose earlier and had quite a vivid dream, it wasn't a nightmare but it wasn't very pleasent, and I quickly forgot what even happened in it not long after waking up.

A few hours later I took my dog for a walk in the park and spoke with a guy who I see now and again and my dog plays with his dog, I found it easier to talk and laughter came quite easily, so you might say I had some mood elevation, but I also get that from just my usual regimen, so as I say I can't really say for sure it's the Suni.

if I were being really scientific about it I would stop everything else for a week or two and try the Suni alone, but I'm self medicating for ADHD-PI+depression+social anxiety, and I'm hesitant to stop my current regimen when it has been working so well for me.

For the sake of record, I've been taking my usual dose of 2.4g Piracetam + 800mg Aniracetam x3 today, spaced 5 hours apart. (with 800mg CDP-Choline in the morning), and I believe they're both AMPAkines aswell as Suni, could that be why the effects aren't as pronounced as other people? Maybe I just need to take more? who knows, really. I can only report what I experience anyway.

Decided to take a bit more now, 11mg if my scales are accurate. All doses have been sublingual, that'll be it for today, and i'll sleep in a few hours and see how I feel tomorrow morning - when I first started Piracetam I felt the effects of it a lot stronger the day after I first started taking it, and the first day I hardly felt anything at all and thought it was bunk, so the same thing could happen here for all I know.

Edited by Sunwind, 01 July 2013 - 10:56 PM.

[3AlarmLampscooter]

Does look possible: http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/7908300

Unitedpharmacies appears to stock it, although I have no experience with them: http://www.unitedpha...p?productid=879

Just wanted to update everyone about UP. I recently got some propranolol hydrochloride from them (dirt cheap at that), and am quite satisfied. I can now personally recommend them

[xsiv1]

Thanks 3Alarm

[Sunwind]

Small update before I go to sleep since taking 11mg, I saw a disturbing video that's gone viral and I couldn't stop thinking about it, still can't really, so I don't know if it's that which has kept me up, or some stimulatory effect from the sunifiram, but there's nothing else worth mentioning of note right now. Will try again tomorrow when I wake up.

Edited by Sunwind, 02 July 2013 - 04:54 AM.

[Babychris]

You don't have to be shocked about this or at least to let this make your mind racing..

I feel this guy caused the death of his own dog, unintentionally. What did he hope to accomplish when cruisers are lined up the street and he decides to just walk up to them to get a video of it? Everybody else was standing back.

Anyway there's so much thing that could hurt us so try to don't give them all the power on your mind, it's a hard task though.

[Sunwind]

Took 19mg 3hours ago, still nothing noticably different while on my usual regimen.

I guess this is why Piracetam and probably Sunifiram caused these visual "sparkle" artifacts: http://brainhealthin...ainEarlyStage1/

Seems to stimulate/do something(?) with the visual cortex/occipital lobe/parietal lobe

[Sunwind]

Took a solid 20mg half an hour ago, mood feels elevated and i'm getting the trademark racetam music-sounds-better effect. (yes I know it's not a racetam itself technically, but these things all appear to have similar methods of action, right?)

Some stimulation/focus and analytical thinking, less emotional in my thoughts and more logical. Feels like Noopept but Noop made me irritable and short-fused wheras this seems to make me happier.

Edited by Sunwind, 02 July 2013 - 10:25 PM.

[unregistered_user]

3alarm, you should start a thread on your Oxytocin experience. I am curious to know how you like it.

[3AlarmLampscooter]

3alarm, you should start a thread on your Oxytocin experience. I am curious to know how you like it.

I will as soon as it arrives. It certainly is interesting as far as cognitive properties, appearing to have paradoxical effects on memory and learning depending on situation.

[xsiv1]

Also interested in your experience 3

[Loveycat]

Small update before I go to sleep since taking 11mg, I saw a disturbing video that's gone viral and I couldn't stop thinking about it, still can't really, so I don't know if it's that which has kept me up, or some stimulatory effect from the sunifiram, but there's nothing else worth mentioning of note right now. Will try again tomorrow when I wake up.

It may just be a natural reaction to a disturbing video. I have not seen this video because when I see things that are awful, they tend to replay in my head., I think this is my minds way of trying to make sense of horrible things.

[3AlarmLampscooter]

This morning I did the following stack:
200ug Methylene Blue
10mg Sunifiram
10mg Unifiram
20mg Noopept
200mg Phenylpiracetam
300mg Centrophenoxine
400mg Adrafinil
400mg Caffeine
1g Oxiracetam

I'd done the same stack before with either Unifiram OR Sunifiram and found it to be relatively stimulating, but the combination of the two totally blew the previous effects away. Sunifiram and Unifiram clearly seem to act in a synergistic way. Almost a bit too much, my reaction time was 182ms over 5 trials, and my forward digit span was 17 (both well better than baseline). Only problem was I got fairly jittery and anxious, more than 400mg of caffeine can explain. I did 10mg of Afobazole and 20mg of Propranolol, which fully took away the side effects quickly. Ultimately felt great, pretty much all the positives (and then some, scratch that, lots) of a high dose of dextroamphetamine (ultimately) with no side effects. Smooth comedown after about 5 hours.

x-posted to Unifiram thread

Edit: I'm a trained professional monkey on the sodium channel blocker carbamazepine, so your results may vary, or result in spontaneous human combustion. Do this stack at your own risk.

Edit: watching that dog video might be interesting once I get my Oxytocin. I don't have much of a reaction to it naturally as long time /b/tard and high scorer on the PCL-R. I did run across quite an interesting viral video showcasing the dark side of the other class of research chemicals though: youtube.com/watch?v=5qB864-kgzQ

Edited by 3AlarmLampscooter, 03 July 2013 - 04:51 PM.

[Climactic]

This morning I did the following stack:
200ug Methylene Blue
10mg Sunifiram
10mg Unifiram
20mg Noopept
200mg Phenylpiracetam
300mg Centrophenoxine
400mg Adrafinil
400mg Caffeine
1g Oxiracetam

Mixing *firams with *finils, I see. Please do it a few more times so you end up with the same lasting side effects as me. Then we can find a treatment together.