1565 replies to this topic

[Isochroma]

Thanks for the new reports!

I think it is becoming obvious by now that there is a consistency to the reports:

1. Stimulation: needing to do something, and some reports of difficulty falling asleep even many hours after the last dose
2. Piracetam-like effects.
3. No diminishment of effects after days of dosing.

Three is the most important: placebo effects are rarely maintained - the brain can only fool itself for so long.

The stimulation effects and how each tester has reported them in different words but yet with the same consistent message tells me that they are real.

[Isochroma]

It will be difficult for me to report correctly Sunifiram's effects at least initially because I stopped eating for the past two days in an attempt to understand what fasting to death might be like, so that I am ready in case I need to do it if the legal situation comes to worst and I cannot obtain the quick-exit chemical.

I just resumed eating but the Sunifiram will be arriving in about five days so I might be recovered by then.

[therein]

It will be difficult for me to report correctly Sunifiram's effects at least initially because I stopped eating for the past two days in an attempt to understand what fasting to death might be like, so that I am ready in case I need to do it if the legal situation comes to worst and I cannot obtain the quick-exit chemical.

I just resumed eating but the Sunifiram will be arriving in about five days so I might be recovered by then.

Do you have any reason to believe that you can face legal prosecution? Plus there must be easier ways to killing yourself than fasting to death.

[Introspecta]

You could fast for months without dying. You'd probably end up having a spiritual experience and end up wanting to live,lol..

[Dissolvedissolve]

Thanks for the new reports!

I think it is becoming obvious by now that there is a consistency to the reports:

1. Stimulation: needing to do something, and some reports of difficulty falling asleep even many hours after the last dose
2. Piracetam-like effects.
3. No diminishment of effects after days of dosing.

Three is the most important: placebo effects are rarely maintained - the brain can only fool itself for so long.

The stimulation effects and how each tester has reported them in different words but yet with the same consistent message tells me that they are real.

Agreed on the first counts, but keep in mind people have only been using it for a few days. I would give people a good two weeks to see if a tolerance builds or the placebo effect diminishes.

[Isochroma]

The 5g Sunifiram is now showing up on the USPS tracking site, on its way by EMS to my home in Canada: EC201251337US

P.S.: The USPS has made it very difficult to use direct URL-encoded tracking (used above) but I finally found the two usable templates some months ago:

 

https: //tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction_input?strOrigTrackNum=

https: //tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction_input?origTrackNum=

You must remove the space after https:

I had to add it because this useless sabotaging board editor keeps creating links that are mangled and 'edited', even if I switch to direct text editing mode. Please where are the damn programs that don't assume users are stupid and prevent them from doing things directly???

Every day I have to deal with the damn auto-word-selector crap in practically every program I use and I can't turn it off, it selects spaces before and after words and decides for me as if it knows more than I do how I want to do something.

To Hell with the losers that program crap like that.

The tracking number is added after the = at the end of the URLs above.

As of today both work.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 01 April 2013 - 04:15 AM.

[Izan]

according to this relatively new study; http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23295391

sunifiram should work wonders on memory.

[Isochroma]

Nice find, thanks!

Sunifiram is one of only a few drugs - Coluracetam included - which improve and/or restore Long Term Potentiation (LTP).

Closer examination of the study reveals that Sunifiram restores pulse depth by about 90% but at the cost of reduced pulse speed [lower frequency].

The greatest loss of speed is in the recovery phase as can be seen below:

From Fig.3(A):



Reminds me how Aniracetam does the same thing [I have the study] - it restores impulse depth but at the cost of slower speed.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 01 April 2013 - 08:00 PM.

[Isochroma]

The second item on a Google search for the title brought up a study I already have on ZSET1446 which makes Sunifiram look tame in comparison: it's a tetracyclic racetam or closely analogous molecule with an effective dose of 0.0001 mg/kg:

"Concomitant administration of ZSET1446 (0.0001 mg/kg) with donepezil (0.01 mg/kg) significantly prolonged the step-through latency as compared with scopolamine-treated group and that in the group treated with donepezil (0.01 mg/kg) and scopolamine, indicating synergistic cognitive-ameliorating effect."

It just so happens that ZSET1446 completely prevents Alzheimer's too:

"Here we describe that ST101 induces cleavage of APP protein at a novel site, generating a 17kDa C-terminal fragment. This 17kDa APP cleavage product does not appear to be a substrate for either α- or β-secretase, and thus bypasses generation of Aβ. ST101 is orally active, efficacious at low doses, improves memory function, and robustly reduces brain Aβ in transgenic mice and nonhuman primates."

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 01 April 2013 - 08:15 PM.

[renfr]

Yes there was a study about sunifiram preventing scopolamine induced amnesia.
It's great if it is able to improve LTP but if one gets tolerance to it, does it mean that upon withdrawal LTP will be reduced?

[Isochroma]

By definition LTP means Long Term. These are changes that don't reverse easily if at all, at least not without further damaging interventions.

[Izan]

The second item on a Google search for the title brought up a study I already have on ZSET1446 which makes Sunifiram look tame in comparison: it's a tetracyclic racetam or closely analogous molecule with an effective dose of 0.0001 mg/kg:

"Concomitant administration of ZSET1446 (0.0001 mg/kg) with donepezil (0.01 mg/kg) significantly prolonged the step-through latency as compared with scopolamine-treated group and that in the group treated with donepezil (0.01 mg/kg) and scopolamine, indicating synergistic cognitive-ameliorating effect."

It just so happens that ZSET1446 completely prevents Alzheimer's too:

"Here we describe that ST101 induces cleavage of APP protein at a novel site, generating a 17kDa C-terminal fragment. This 17kDa APP cleavage product does not appear to be a substrate for either α- or β-secretase, and thus bypasses generation of Aβ. ST101 is orally active, efficacious at low doses, improves memory function, and robustly reduces brain Aβ in transgenic mice and nonhuman primates."

nice find isochroma! i really like reading your posts here on longecity, you are a such great asset to this community. what do you consider at the moment to be the most powerful nootropic available? (potentially speaking)

[Isochroma]

Sadly, the cures for most if not all brain diseases already exist: just like Sunifiram the info is locked away behind paywalls, the drugs are locked away by patents and due to the system's desire to keep milking sick people they keep using junk drugs that don't fix the problems or make worse problems or are only half-remedies or symptomatic remedies.

Luckily Sunifiram - unlike Coluracetam - is not encumbered by such patents - yet.

New Star Nootropics is taking a big risk by selling Coluracetam - it is patented in both the USA and Canada and they risk civil prosecution by BrainCells Inc. for selling it without a license - regardless of its lack of FDA or Health Canada approval.

[Isochroma]

izan82: As of now, Sunifiram.

I have more studies on ZSET1446 [ST101] {887603-94-3} but that's off-topic for this thread.

Unfortunately, it's in-development by Sonexa Therapeutics.

PS. I finally realized what the US FDA and Canada's Health Canada have become (about 90%): patent enforcers for Big Pharma.

[Izan]

izan82: As of now, Sunifiram.

I have more studies on ZSET1446 [ST101] {887603-94-3} but that's off-topic for this thread.

Unfortunately, it's in-development by Sonexa Therapeutics.

PS. I finally realized what the US FDA and Canada's Health Canada have become (about 90%): patent enforcers for Big Pharma.

4 grams of prl 8-53 are coming my way within a month or so. i will send you 500 mgs (dose is 5mgs, so 100 doses) free of charge, because i really appreciate the hard work and the detailed posts you are putting into this forum.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

now back on topic....

Edited by izan82, 01 April 2013 - 08:36 PM.

[renfr]

Sadly, the cures for most if not all brain diseases already exist: just like Sunifiram the info is locked away behind paywalls, the drugs are locked away by patents and due to the system's desire to keep milking sick people they keep using junk drugs that don't fix the problems or make worse problems or are only half-remedies or symptomatic remedies.

Luckily Sunifiram - unlike Coluracetam - is not encumbered by such patents - yet.

New Star Nootropics is taking a big risk by selling Coluracetam - it is patented in both the USA and Canada and they risk civil prosecution by BrainCells Inc. for selling it without a license - regardless of its lack of FDA or Health Canada approval.

Hum that's indeed a risk, anyone can patent new nootropics and create their own monopoly. Is it costful to get a patent in the US/Canada?

Concerning my question it wasn't really what I was wondering, I was wondering if formation of LTP would be slowed down during withdrawal not if what was retained during sunifiram intake would be oxidized, that's an important thing to take into account. I'm not sure whether homeostasis applies with LTP or not.

[Isochroma]

izan82: thanks!

renfr: Patents cost money.

If a drug that improves LTP is withdrawn, new LTP formation will likely decrease back to baseline while LTP established during the drug's use will remain.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 01 April 2013 - 10:07 PM.

[mait]

Has someone tried sunifiram and noopept combo. Noopept stacks really well with aniracetam for me and many others - the "speedy" aspects of noopept are really well balanced by aniracetam. And it seems that it may be related to Isochroma-Reborn's refered pulse depth vs pulse speed tradeoff. I have slight - maybe wrong- memory that noopept increased the pulse speed in hipocampus CA1 region.

[Isochroma]

mait: Indeed, Noopept increases the frequency of pulses [how often a pulse occurs within a given period of time] within a pulse train in such cells and increases their depth but has very little if any effect on their length.

Sunifiram decreases the frequency of each pulse (the pulse is 'stretched out' or slower). That's a different measure than how many pulses per second.

What I should have called it in the previous post is Pulse Aspect Ratio [PAR] - the width [time] divided by the amplitude [height] of a given individual pulse or an average of more than one.

From Novel nootropic dipeptide Noopept increases inhibitory synaptic transmission in CA1 pyramidal cells [Full PDF]:

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 01 April 2013 - 10:43 PM.

[FrizzRamble]

I have also ordered sunifiram from NewStar. A concern I have with taking this compound, beyond the appearance of health complications, is the chance for the false attribution of effects. Objective self testing aside, do any of you know of practices that can help minimize the placebo effect?

you're going to have to "blind" yourself. create 2 containers with identical looking powder (one the experimental drug, and one with the inert powder). put labels underneath, or elsewhere where you won't be able to/tempted to look at them. take the powder from one of the jars at random without looking at the label. write down your experiences. then look at the label.

there's going to be other confounding factors besides placebo though. so you may want to look up single subject research designs to see how to control for those.

I appreciate your insight. I will try your method of self blinding. I am an entertaining a method of self blinding and dosing that involves mixing two solutions. One will have 8mg of sunifiram with a bit of salt, and the other will have just a saline solution. I will drop the solutions onto Cheez-It crackers. I will have a friend make note of which cracker has which solution. I will take a weeks worth of one set of crackers that has either solution, do a wash out for a week, and then consume the second solution set of crackers the following week. I intend on doing this after I have become accustomed to the specific effects of knowingly taking sunifiram, and then compare my experiences. A concern I have with this method is the stability of sunifiram in a slightly saline solution coupled with the stability of the solution when it has been dropped onto the crackers.

In regards to my virgin testing of sunifiram,I feel that taking sunifiram has increased my ability to give the tasks that I do proper due diligence. This could be an instance placebo effect, but the same willingness and ability to put up with troublesome tasks and activities has persisted.

[Mr. Pink]

I have also ordered sunifiram from NewStar. A concern I have with taking this compound, beyond the appearance of health complications, is the chance for the false attribution of effects. Objective self testing aside, do any of you know of practices that can help minimize the placebo effect?

you're going to have to "blind" yourself. create 2 containers with identical looking powder (one the experimental drug, and one with the inert powder). put labels underneath, or elsewhere where you won't be able to/tempted to look at them. take the powder from one of the jars at random without looking at the label. write down your experiences. then look at the label.

there's going to be other confounding factors besides placebo though. so you may want to look up single subject research designs to see how to control for those.

I appreciate your insight. I will try your method of self blinding. I am an entertaining a method of self blinding and dosing that involves mixing two solutions. One will have 8mg of sunifiram with a bit of salt, and the other will have just a saline solution. I will drop the solutions onto Cheez-It crackers. I will have a friend make note of which cracker has which solution. I will take a weeks worth of one set of crackers that has either solution, do a wash out for a week, and then consume the second solution set of crackers the following week. I intend on doing this after I have become accustomed to the specific effects of knowingly taking sunifiram, and then compare my experiences. A concern I have with this method is the stability of sunifiram in a slightly saline solution coupled with the stability of the solution when it has been dropped onto the crackers.

In regards to my virgin testing of sunifiram,I feel that taking sunifiram has increased my ability to give the tasks that I do proper due diligence. This could be an instance placebo effect, but the same willingness and ability to put up with troublesome tasks and activities has persisted.

That's a good idea. Here is what you could do to control for more confounding factors:

Crackers 1, washout, crackers 2, washout, crackers 1, washout, crackers 2

What you're looking for is not only an improvement every time you take the sunifiram crackers, but also a return to baseline everytime you take the placebo.

This is based off of the ABAB single subject design which is pretty much the best you can do with 1 or only a few subjects. If you do just crackers 1, washout, crackers 2, that is more like an AB sing subject design which is considered pre-experimental. You need to do the return to baseline (at least ABA) for it to be experimental -that serves as the control condition when you only have 1 subject. That way you know the changes are due to the drug and not coincidentally due to confounding factors in the experimental phase.

[Allethrin]

I have my experiences and assessment of this compound to share with you all.

First of all, even though I have not posted on this forum I am not any shill for this drug. I've lurked here for a couple years and have experimented extensively during that time with nootropics and other supplements, as a means to enhance my general health and cognition and also repair some semi-long term damage to my dopamine-related brain systems incurred from excessive use of harmful recreational drugs and ill-advised supplement cocktails during my younger years. Sunifiram finally brought me out of lurk-mode and I think I have some valuable perceptions of this drug to bring to the community.

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that people seem to agree that it's stimulating, has piracetam-like effects, and maintains effect when taken multiple days in a row. I definitely agree that it's pretty mentally stimulating. I can get very zoned-in on tasks, I have much more mental stamina, more oomph to be able to start things and see through the important details. The stimulation is the sort where if I lie down to `nap' midday with sunifiram in my system, I am unable to sleep, but instead of any agitated racing brain, I sort of zone-in and my mind naturally centers and relaxes the same as what I do when I meditate.

With sunifiram my thoughts come very crisp and sharp and fast, but to let go of one thread/task or pull back to centered, observational perceiving mode is no difficulty at all, and is actually easier. So an enormous difference between this drug and depleting stimulants such as amphetamine is that `overfocus' and OCD-like thought patterns seem to be no problem at all with sunifiram.

I notice an intense effect on my ability to multitask. Going throughout my day on sunifiram, I easily and naturally maintain a mental to-do list that organizes the little sub-tasks of the many things that I have to do, and I have the perfect amount of time in my schedule to get each little thing done. I bop along from one little productive thing to the next, with a relaxed cheery attitude.

There's another major difference compared to stimulants: There is zero physical stimulation. I don't experience any `thermogenesis' as the other poster in this thread mentioned. There is no appetite effect whatsoever. I do find that sunifiram helps me zone-in to physical exercise though.

Another very noticeable effect for me is sunifiram's prosocial quality. My wit and verbal ability is better, I listen more carefully and ask more interesting questions of people, have more social confidence, joke around more, etc. This is a really appreciated benefit because what always turned me off from the more powerful racetams and choline related supplements is that they seemed to either be very inconsistent on the social front, or they would more often just make me feel grey and neutral and awkward in social situations. I consider piracetam to be solidly prosocial, for sure.

I also will put in a few about potential negatives and concerns about this drug. I think I'm not the only one in this thread who has perceived some mild mania-like symptoms from this drug. This is definitely something to watch and the bipolar people here should really go easy in this until more user feedback rolls in. On the other hand, it may be the case that ampakines such as sunifiram help with the sort of brain repair that aids in various disease states including mental illnesses; this I am just speculating. To me it certainly feels healthy like other nootropics to me, and I asked a close friend if I seemed manic at all, and she told me that I actually come across as very zen.

I definitely had a feeling in all of my classes today that I was consciously (but effortlessly) restraining my intelligence. I wanted to answer everything and ask very smart but slightly tangential questions. I've also had a similar awareness when it comes to my social wit.

I did experience maybe some burnout or some form of negative backlash possibly related to sunifiram this evening. During afternoon meditation I attained some incredibly stable and powerful laser-brain for quite awhile, probably because sunifiram is so helpful for meditation. I had a mild and short-lived emotional crash soon afterwards. It felt like the sort of psychospiritual pain that sometimes come when you suddenly increase meditation volume/frequency a lot. I felt averse to all stimuli and lay in the dark to rest for a short while, and I feel much better now afterwards.

I have a theory about this part. With sunifiram increasing LTP and boosting BDNF levels, it may just be that brains `integrate' very agressively any sort of learning or training (such as meditation), kind of like having an intense healing/immune response to some physical stressor, that heals the wound or repels the infection very quickly and effectively, but in a sort of overwhelming and potentially unpleasant way. The way that it felt like my brain just needed a rest to get away from integrating/learning from more stimuli leads me to think about it like this.

So in summary, based on my experience:

- Sunifiram has a significantly better overall spectrum of effects than strong racetams (I cannot compare to coluracetam yet).
- Sunifiram has motivation, focus, mood-lifting, and prosocial benefits potentially rivaling low to moderate doses of amphetamine
- Sunifiram improves memory, multitasking ability and retains `fluid/creative' thinking unlike amphetamine
- Sunifiram does not feel depleting or physically stimulating at all, with one exception: Learning a lot or `zoning-in' on intensive cognitive training may require more recovery/rest period afterwards when taking sunifiram.
- Sunifiram is generally pro-hedonic, like piracetam and unlike aniracetam and pramiracetam

Isochroma is right when he calls sunifiram the sunshine nootropic - It definitely meshed with the coming of spring pretty well and lends a bright sunny cheery spring-cleaning type mood and productivity.

With this being my first major post on this forum, I want to especially put out my social-media internet feelers to connect with the legendary Isochroma. I feel honored to be your thread-contemporary, and thank you for all your work making the availability of powerful nootropics a reality. The same goes for ScienceGuy too.

One last note on dosing: I took 3mg my first evening, then 11mg AM + 5mg in the afternoon on my second day, then today I took 7mg in the morning and 4mg midday. My initial impressions are that 10mg daily total is probably the upper limit of what I would feel comfortable sustaining long-term for myself.

I think 5mg in the morning and maybe 2mg midday would make for a good balanced dosing schedule that is not too intense.

[renfr]

That's a really good review you posted here, here's a kudos for you.
How much time have you been using Sunifiram, did you get any tolerance from it if you used it for a long time?
I am really eager to know the underlying mechanism of all these effects, it sounds like a bit dopaminergic, does AMPA modulation interferes with dopaminergic pathways? Maybe, there are some studies saying the contrary (dopamine stimulates AMPA) though there's an interesting study here, it discusses AMPA antagonists inhibiting dopaminergic pathways so if the logic works the other way around AMPA stimulation could stimulate dopamine : http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9551768

The noncompetitive AMPA antagonists, GYKI 52466 (5-40 mg/kg) and LY300164 (1-6 mg/kg), and the competitive AMPA antagonists, LY326325 (5-80 mg/kg) and NBQX (10-80 mg/kg), were compared to the dopamine antagonist, haloperidol (0.03-1.0 mg/kg), for their ability to inhibit dopamine-mediated behaviors after i.p. administration in mice.

Very interesting stuff!

[Isochroma]

Wow, thanks for the super-long ultradetailed report Allethrin!

I am looking forward to getting back the olde Piracetam supermania that lets me zoom thru endless studies and compile gigalists of prices - there's so much work to do!

The milligram scale awaits the new-tropic weights!

Also, the reports are so amazing that they are exceeding my expectations so I will be making a page compiling user reports with links in the coming days - definitely within a week.

This page will have not only the standard effects classifications like the Coluracetam Experiences page does, but below them will have the full posts linked to their sources. Clicking on the short summaries will instantly bring the viewer to the #-anchor linked full posts below, and clicking one of them will bring the viewer to the original post on the forum.

I am hoping this format will satisfy both those who want summary, classification-based report briefs and also detailed full reports on the same page all with full links.

[MizTen]

I have my experiences and assessment of this compound to share with you all.

First of all, even though I have not posted on this forum I am not any shill for this drug. I've lurked here for a couple years and have experimented extensively during that time with nootropics and other supplements, as a means to enhance my general health and cognition and also repair some semi-long term damage to my dopamine-related brain systems incurred from excessive use of harmful recreational drugs and ill-advised supplement cocktails during my younger years. Sunifiram finally brought me out of lurk-mode and I think I have some valuable perceptions of this drug to bring to the community.

Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that people seem to agree that it's stimulating, has piracetam-like effects, and maintains effect when taken multiple days in a row. I definitely agree that it's pretty mentally stimulating. I can get very zoned-in on tasks, I have much more mental stamina, more oomph to be able to start things and see through the important details. The stimulation is the sort where if I lie down to `nap' midday with sunifiram in my system, I am unable to sleep, but instead of any agitated racing brain, I sort of zone-in and my mind naturally centers and relaxes the same as what I do when I meditate.

With sunifiram my thoughts come very crisp and sharp and fast, but to let go of one thread/task or pull back to centered, observational perceiving mode is no difficulty at all, and is actually easier. So an enormous difference between this drug and depleting stimulants such as amphetamine is that `overfocus' and OCD-like thought patterns seem to be no problem at all with sunifiram.

I notice an intense effect on my ability to multitask. Going throughout my day on sunifiram, I easily and naturally maintain a mental to-do list that organizes the little sub-tasks of the many things that I have to do, and I have the perfect amount of time in my schedule to get each little thing done. I bop along from one little productive thing to the next, with a relaxed cheery attitude.

There's another major difference compared to stimulants: There is zero physical stimulation. I don't experience any `thermogenesis' as the other poster in this thread mentioned. There is no appetite effect whatsoever. I do find that sunifiram helps me zone-in to physical exercise though.

Another very noticeable effect for me is sunifiram's prosocial quality. My wit and verbal ability is better, I listen more carefully and ask more interesting questions of people, have more social confidence, joke around more, etc. This is a really appreciated benefit because what always turned me off from the more powerful racetams and choline related supplements is that they seemed to either be very inconsistent on the social front, or they would more often just make me feel grey and neutral and awkward in social situations. I consider piracetam to be solidly prosocial, for sure.

I also will put in a few about potential negatives and concerns about this drug. I think I'm not the only one in this thread who has perceived some mild mania-like symptoms from this drug. This is definitely something to watch and the bipolar people here should really go easy in this until more user feedback rolls in. On the other hand, it may be the case that ampakines such as sunifiram help with the sort of brain repair that aids in various disease states including mental illnesses; this I am just speculating. To me it certainly feels healthy like other nootropics to me, and I asked a close friend if I seemed manic at all, and she told me that I actually come across as very zen.

I definitely had a feeling in all of my classes today that I was consciously (but effortlessly) restraining my intelligence. I wanted to answer everything and ask very smart but slightly tangential questions. I've also had a similar awareness when it comes to my social wit.

I did experience maybe some burnout or some form of negative backlash possibly related to sunifiram this evening. During afternoon meditation I attained some incredibly stable and powerful laser-brain for quite awhile, probably because sunifiram is so helpful for meditation. I had a mild and short-lived emotional crash soon afterwards. It felt like the sort of psychospiritual pain that sometimes come when you suddenly increase meditation volume/frequency a lot. I felt averse to all stimuli and lay in the dark to rest for a short while, and I feel much better now afterwards.

I have a theory about this part. With sunifiram increasing LTP and boosting BDNF levels, it may just be that brains `integrate' very agressively any sort of learning or training (such as meditation), kind of like having an intense healing/immune response to some physical stressor, that heals the wound or repels the infection very quickly and effectively, but in a sort of overwhelming and potentially unpleasant way. The way that it felt like my brain just needed a rest to get away from integrating/learning from more stimuli leads me to think about it like this.

So in summary, based on my experience:

- Sunifiram has a significantly better overall spectrum of effects than strong racetams (I cannot compare to coluracetam yet).
- Sunifiram has motivation, focus, mood-lifting, and prosocial benefits potentially rivaling low to moderate doses of amphetamine
- Sunifiram improves memory, multitasking ability and retains `fluid/creative' thinking unlike amphetamine
- Sunifiram does not feel depleting or physically stimulating at all, with one exception: Learning a lot or `zoning-in' on intensive cognitive training may require more recovery/rest period afterwards when taking sunifiram.
- Sunifiram is generally pro-hedonic, like piracetam and unlike aniracetam and pramiracetam

Isochroma is right when he calls sunifiram the sunshine nootropic - It definitely meshed with the coming of spring pretty well and lends a bright sunny cheery spring-cleaning type mood and productivity.

With this being my first major post on this forum, I want to especially put out my social-media internet feelers to connect with the legendary Isochroma. I feel honored to be your thread-contemporary, and thank you for all your work making the availability of powerful nootropics a reality. The same goes for ScienceGuy too.

One last note on dosing: I took 3mg my first evening, then 11mg AM + 5mg in the afternoon on my second day, then today I took 7mg in the morning and 4mg midday. My initial impressions are that 10mg daily total is probably the upper limit of what I would feel comfortable sustaining long-term for myself.

I think 5mg in the morning and maybe 2mg midday would make for a good balanced dosing schedule that is not too intense.

Thanks for this, it's very helpful. A lot of what you said resonated, very similar to my conclusions about sunifiram. I am on day 7 and the "sunny" effects have subsided. There were many variables for me, so I will washout and try this again in 4-6 days. Maybe with less variables, if that's possible. I agree about the dosing too, 8-12mg over 6 hours in the first part of the day is better for me. I will also try low dosing. It is not much like amphetamine, at least Adderall, (that is the only one I am familiar with).

The multi-tasking part is awesome, and has been reported by others who got any effect. The social clarity and enjoyment is certainly nice too.

Anyway, your summary is excellent.

[Allethrin]

That's a really good review you posted here, here's a kudos for you.
How much time have you been using Sunifiram, did you get any tolerance from it if you used it for a long time?
I am really eager to know the underlying mechanism of all these effects, it sounds like a bit dopaminergic, does AMPA modulation interferes with dopaminergic pathways? Maybe, there are some studies saying the contrary (dopamine stimulates AMPA) though there's an interesting study here, it discusses AMPA antagonists inhibiting dopaminergic pathways so if the logic works the other way around AMPA stimulation could stimulate dopamine : http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9551768

The noncompetitive AMPA antagonists, GYKI 52466 (5-40 mg/kg) and LY300164 (1-6 mg/kg), and the competitive AMPA antagonists, LY326325 (5-80 mg/kg) and NBQX (10-80 mg/kg), were compared to the dopamine antagonist, haloperidol (0.03-1.0 mg/kg), for their ability to inhibit dopamine-mediated behaviors after i.p. administration in mice.

Very interesting stuff!

I have been using sunifiram for only three days now, with my regular ~5g piracetam daily. I have experienced no tolerance yet, and the effects are surprisingly consistent for hours after dosing even into the evening.

However it's hard for me to believe that the mood boost and the full range of awesomeness is completely sustainable. MizTen just reported that the sunshine has faded for him, only 7 days in. Regardless, if the cognitive boost sticks around this is still an excellent nootropic.

I too have a whole ton of confounding variables in my personal experiment so I'll keep intuiting what this nootropic does and update later.

Although they are very different, I found the comparison with amphetamine worthwhile because amphetamine is sort of a `gold standard' as a study/focus aid, and unlike all of the racetams, this is the first nootropic drug I have taken that has that kind of benefit for focus in the same order of magnitude.

Also the sunifiram effect is very distinct from any single racetam, or racetams collectively.

Also I was VERY able to type up detailed notes while simultaneously listening to and fully grasping an advanced mathematics lecture this morning, whereas usually when I type notes for classes it distracts me from the lecture.

[renfr]

That's a really good review you posted here, here's a kudos for you.
How much time have you been using Sunifiram, did you get any tolerance from it if you used it for a long time?
I am really eager to know the underlying mechanism of all these effects, it sounds like a bit dopaminergic, does AMPA modulation interferes with dopaminergic pathways? Maybe, there are some studies saying the contrary (dopamine stimulates AMPA) though there's an interesting study here, it discusses AMPA antagonists inhibiting dopaminergic pathways so if the logic works the other way around AMPA stimulation could stimulate dopamine : http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9551768

The noncompetitive AMPA antagonists, GYKI 52466 (5-40 mg/kg) and LY300164 (1-6 mg/kg), and the competitive AMPA antagonists, LY326325 (5-80 mg/kg) and NBQX (10-80 mg/kg), were compared to the dopamine antagonist, haloperidol (0.03-1.0 mg/kg), for their ability to inhibit dopamine-mediated behaviors after i.p. administration in mice.

Very interesting stuff!

I have been using sunifiram for only three days now, with my regular ~5g piracetam daily. I have experienced no tolerance yet, and the effects are surprisingly consistent for hours after dosing even into the evening.

However it's hard for me to believe that the mood boost and the full range of awesomeness is completely sustainable. MizTen just reported that the sunshine has faded for him, only 7 days in. Regardless, if the cognitive boost sticks around this is still an excellent nootropic.

I too have a whole ton of confounding variables in my personal experiment so I'll keep intuiting what this nootropic does and update later.

Although they are very different, I found the comparison with amphetamine worthwhile because amphetamine is sort of a `gold standard' as a study/focus aid, and unlike all of the racetams, this is the first nootropic drug I have taken that has that kind of benefit for focus in the same order of magnitude.

Also the sunifiram effect is very distinct from any single racetam, or racetams collectively.

Also I was VERY able to type up detailed notes while simultaneously listening to and fully grasping an advanced mathematics lecture this morning, whereas usually when I type notes for classes it distracts me from the lecture.

Sounds truly great indeed, can't wait for my stash!
By the way, I also made the same mistake, Sunifiram isn't a racetam at all, it's totally different, it doesn't have a pyrrolidone group.
I theorize that this compound would stack very well with sulbutiamine, this will be the main theme of my personal research on how to keep sustainable elevated dopamine levels without causing extreme downregulation or destroying substantia nigra neurons.

[Allethrin]

That's a really good review you posted here, here's a kudos for you.
How much time have you been using Sunifiram, did you get any tolerance from it if you used it for a long time?
I am really eager to know the underlying mechanism of all these effects, it sounds like a bit dopaminergic, does AMPA modulation interferes with dopaminergic pathways? Maybe, there are some studies saying the contrary (dopamine stimulates AMPA) though there's an interesting study here, it discusses AMPA antagonists inhibiting dopaminergic pathways so if the logic works the other way around AMPA stimulation could stimulate dopamine : http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9551768

The noncompetitive AMPA antagonists, GYKI 52466 (5-40 mg/kg) and LY300164 (1-6 mg/kg), and the competitive AMPA antagonists, LY326325 (5-80 mg/kg) and NBQX (10-80 mg/kg), were compared to the dopamine antagonist, haloperidol (0.03-1.0 mg/kg), for their ability to inhibit dopamine-mediated behaviors after i.p. administration in mice.

Very interesting stuff!

I have been using sunifiram for only three days now, with my regular ~5g piracetam daily. I have experienced no tolerance yet, and the effects are surprisingly consistent for hours after dosing even into the evening.

However it's hard for me to believe that the mood boost and the full range of awesomeness is completely sustainable. MizTen just reported that the sunshine has faded for him, only 7 days in. Regardless, if the cognitive boost sticks around this is still an excellent nootropic.

I too have a whole ton of confounding variables in my personal experiment so I'll keep intuiting what this nootropic does and update later.

Although they are very different, I found the comparison with amphetamine worthwhile because amphetamine is sort of a `gold standard' as a study/focus aid, and unlike all of the racetams, this is the first nootropic drug I have taken that has that kind of benefit for focus in the same order of magnitude.

Also the sunifiram effect is very distinct from any single racetam, or racetams collectively.

Also I was VERY able to type up detailed notes while simultaneously listening to and fully grasping an advanced mathematics lecture this morning, whereas usually when I type notes for classes it distracts me from the lecture.

Sounds truly great indeed, can't wait for my stash!
By the way, I also made the same mistake, Sunifiram isn't a racetam at all, it's totally different, it doesn't have a pyrrolidone group.
I theorize that this compound would stack very well with sulbutiamine, this will be the main theme of my personal research on how to keep sustainable elevated dopamine levels without causing extreme downregulation or destroying substantia nigra neurons.

That's funny that that's the main theme of your personal research. Exactly this idea of keeping sustainable elevated dopamine levels was what first pulled me into supplementation. The scheme was to supply the raw supplies for dopamine synthesis (l-dopa, tyrosine, etc.) along with all of the enzyme co-factors necessary to catalyze all steps in the in-vivo conversion, and otherwise stimulate necessary enzyme activity. Part of the blueprint was to massively increase acetylcholine activity using tropane AchEIs.

This quickly escalated into manic psychosis and hospitalization and I was left with a totally fried dopamine system; so I fell into an awful compulsive polydrug addiction phase in the immediate aftermath.

It took me two years to fully recover, and I have now been better than ever before for a solid chunk, especially thanks to piracetam and everything else :D

Be really really careful if your research goal is to sustainably elevate dopamine function. I screwed up pretty seriously when I tried this and it messed me up bad for two years.

[renfr]

That's a really good review you posted here, here's a kudos for you.
How much time have you been using Sunifiram, did you get any tolerance from it if you used it for a long time?
I am really eager to know the underlying mechanism of all these effects, it sounds like a bit dopaminergic, does AMPA modulation interferes with dopaminergic pathways? Maybe, there are some studies saying the contrary (dopamine stimulates AMPA) though there's an interesting study here, it discusses AMPA antagonists inhibiting dopaminergic pathways so if the logic works the other way around AMPA stimulation could stimulate dopamine : http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9551768

The noncompetitive AMPA antagonists, GYKI 52466 (5-40 mg/kg) and LY300164 (1-6 mg/kg), and the competitive AMPA antagonists, LY326325 (5-80 mg/kg) and NBQX (10-80 mg/kg), were compared to the dopamine antagonist, haloperidol (0.03-1.0 mg/kg), for their ability to inhibit dopamine-mediated behaviors after i.p. administration in mice.

Very interesting stuff!

I have been using sunifiram for only three days now, with my regular ~5g piracetam daily. I have experienced no tolerance yet, and the effects are surprisingly consistent for hours after dosing even into the evening.

However it's hard for me to believe that the mood boost and the full range of awesomeness is completely sustainable. MizTen just reported that the sunshine has faded for him, only 7 days in. Regardless, if the cognitive boost sticks around this is still an excellent nootropic.

I too have a whole ton of confounding variables in my personal experiment so I'll keep intuiting what this nootropic does and update later.

Although they are very different, I found the comparison with amphetamine worthwhile because amphetamine is sort of a `gold standard' as a study/focus aid, and unlike all of the racetams, this is the first nootropic drug I have taken that has that kind of benefit for focus in the same order of magnitude.

Also the sunifiram effect is very distinct from any single racetam, or racetams collectively.

Also I was VERY able to type up detailed notes while simultaneously listening to and fully grasping an advanced mathematics lecture this morning, whereas usually when I type notes for classes it distracts me from the lecture.

Sounds truly great indeed, can't wait for my stash!
By the way, I also made the same mistake, Sunifiram isn't a racetam at all, it's totally different, it doesn't have a pyrrolidone group.
I theorize that this compound would stack very well with sulbutiamine, this will be the main theme of my personal research on how to keep sustainable elevated dopamine levels without causing extreme downregulation or destroying substantia nigra neurons.

That's funny that that's the main theme of your personal research. Exactly this idea of keeping sustainable elevated dopamine levels was what first pulled me into supplementation. The scheme was to supply the raw supplies for dopamine synthesis (l-dopa, tyrosine, etc.) along with all of the enzyme co-factors necessary to catalyze all steps in the in-vivo conversion, and otherwise stimulate necessary enzyme activity. Part of the blueprint was to massively increase acetylcholine activity using tropane AchEIs.

This quickly escalated into manic psychosis and hospitalization and I was left with a totally fried dopamine system; so I fell into an awful compulsive polydrug addiction phase in the immediate aftermath.

It took me two years to fully recover, and I have now been better than ever before for a solid chunk, especially thanks to piracetam and everything else :D

Be really really careful if your research goal is to sustainably elevate dopamine function. I screwed up pretty seriously when I tried this and it messed me up bad for two years.

Really? This can't be the L-dopa, L-tyrosine you would get tolerance from them very fast. I guess you ended up getting hospitalized from using chronically high doses of dopamine agonists.
Plus using AchEIs with these would potentiate the effects too much, is that what you mean by fried dopamine system? Your system was totally burned out or it was just too active?
Maybe you didn't really need to stimulate your dopamine system, I come from an extreme serotonergic state that left my body being utterly lazy and with a submissive behaviour (probably past junk food binging and overweight?) so I guess I have much less risks into falling in such state.
I wanted to get into L-tyrosine and NALT as well but being agonists they're not good for long term, sulbutiamine has the ability to upregulate D1 receptors and maintain elevated dopamine levels long term.
It has been working for over a month for now and it does work as I am much more sensitive to stuff increasing dopamine such as peanut butter.
Also I take 10000IU vitamin D for L-tyrosine conversion into dopamine precursors, vitamin B6 from time to time, NAC to protect substantia nigra neurons from DOPAC, selegiline once a week to protect substantia nigra neurons and that's most of it.
Adding one or two days a week 2 grams choline to balance it out, fish oil for balance as well and serotonergic food can help also to avoid downregulation.
Adding dopamine agonists would totally lead me into an hypertensive crisis or in an extreme shakiness state, I learned the hard way with Inositol which upregulates D2, the shakiness was like that of a caffeine overdose.

[Reformed-Redan]

I don't think I'll ever use adderall or ritalin just because I'm afraid of messing with reward pathways. But, does sunifiram compare to any of the previously mentioned stims or maybe phenylpiracetam?