47 replies to this topic

[LoopLooper]

Having read some anecdotal stories of lung "pain" or a feeling of exertion in the lung cavity while taking C60 that is attributed to increased aerobic load from feeling more vigorous.... I read this and then forgot about it while I began taking C60 and noticed one day I felt some ache in my chest cavity. I brushed it off after superficially googling "C60 and lung tissue toxicity" and feeling confident that inhalation may be an issue but not ingestion, but then yesterday while on a long bike ride I felt the weird ache again, whereas I never felt this before taking C60. I have only been taking it for a couple weeks.

The reason I am concerned is that I read the full thread that followed the three mice on C60 and unfortunately one died early and had a pulmonary neoplasm I believe. Am I the only one fretting about this mouse dying of lung issues while those of us experimenting with C60 are occasionally noting lung/chest sensitivity that feels like exertion? Could it be something worse?

I'd love to hear how you feel about this and what you have read regarding this topic that I may be missing.

Thanks in advance everyone!

Best Regards,
E

[AdamI]

Soo you are infact inhaling C60? That's brave of you! U do know what dust lung is that miners got when they worked in coal mines? U probably got that then, if u have been inhaling C60. Just a bad guess but still...maybe take a lung scan at the doc

[niner]

I'm not that worried about the mouse that died, because it was probably sick before it got c60. Those mice were started on c60 late in life, at a time when mice are often starting to develop tumors. Cancer is a very common cause of death in rodents. The fact that none of Baati's rats showed any evidence of tumors, while at least some of the control rats did is a good sign. I don't know what's going on with your lung pain. I've been following all the c60 reports looking for consistent occurrences, and just looked through every post in the c60health forum containing the word "lung". It seems that all the discussion of lung pain traces back to a single report that was later ruled out as muscle pain. There was one other report of a transient lung "burn" that lasted only a few minutes on the first couple of uses of the Vaughter Wellness c60-oo, and never recurred. That might have had a placebo component, since it occurred while the "lung pain" concern was active. I'd have to say at this point that the experience of users reporting here doesn't support anything consistently involving lung pain. There are, on the other hand, some reports of improved lung function/oxygen utilization. You could consider stopping c60 for a while while waiting for the lung issues to resolve. You might have a little bronchitis, particularly at this time of year.

@AdamI: She's not inhaling it.

[LoopLooper]

Soo you are infact inhaling C60? That's brave of you! U do know what dust lung is that miners got when they worked in coal mines? U probably got that then, if u have been inhaling C60. Just a bad guess but still...maybe take a lung scan at the doc

no. please re-read my post. thx.

Excellent reply niner. Thank you so much. I often enjoy your posts, informative and interesting. I do think it could be placebo.

[Kevnzworld]

I was one of the people that replied that I had been experiencing a persistent cough after reading another post mentioning lung issues.
My condition, whatever it was, has cleared up. I still take C60 uninterrupted , so whatever the malady was that I experienced wasn't attributable to C60.

[stephen_b]

Well, it is wintertime in Chicagoland. There are lots of bugs going around.

[mikeinnaples]

I noticed some lung burn too after running, but attribute it to allergies. This time of the year in Florida is hell on me normally.

[YOLF]

Have you been exerting yourself more than usual? I was pretty sure that was what was causing the reports for most. I've noticed that after pushing myself unusually hard (not taking C60 at the time) that I got a cough and wheeze for a few days. In those cases my lung capacity and endurance immediately improved after recovery. So sometimes it's good for you. AgeViVo's mouse died as a senior citizen and was too old for us to know if she died from the C60. I do think Niner has the best advice tho.

Perhaps we should request contact info and next of kin for the people taking C60 so we can keep up their condition.

Edited by cryonicsculture, 25 March 2013 - 04:12 PM.

[hav]

Fwiw, back in the Winter of 2010 got a double pneumonia which left some markings on my lungs 3 months later that they wanted to keep an eye on. That's when I started taking resveratrol and astragalus to boost my immune system. Six months later, the markings were gone. My most recent ct scan, after about 10 months of taking c60/oo, is still clear.

Howard

[YOLF]

Sounds like a good indicator for safety. Perhaps residue that is left in the mouth is metabolized and the C60 is freed. Being so light, it could wind up in the lungs from breathing. Just a thought, but I'm no pro chemist.

Also, EVOO can sting going down by itself. I use light OO to prevent heart burn, but when I tried EVOO it stung. If you're sensitive enough to it, it could be that mucus is being created due to the inflammation of the throat caused by the heavy EVOO. We really aught to get a C60 study going with light OO. IMHO it's much better for you, at least the way I use it.

Edited by cryonicsculture, 05 April 2013 - 08:10 PM.

[niner]

Sounds like a good indicator for safety. Perhaps residue that is left in the mouth is metabolized and the C60 is freed. Being so light, it could wind up in the lungs from breathing. Just a thought, but I'm no pro chemist.

No one was taking c60-oo until 2012. hav is talking about an event from two years before then. We don't have any enzymes that would be expected to cleave c60 from an alkyl chain. Also, C60 isn't light. Its MW is 720 g/m. C60-oo certainly gets into lung tissue via general circulation, but there simply isn't any evidence for a problem there.

Also, EVOO can sting going down by itself. I use light OO to prevent heart burn, but when I tried EVOO it stung. If you're sensitive enough to it, it could be that mucus is being created due to the inflammation of the throat caused by the heavy EVOO. We really aught to get a C60 study going with light OO. IMHO it's much better for you, at least the way I use it.

C60-oo can be made using a low polyphenol oil and it works fine. I would be less keen on using an oil that may have been cut with seed oils or might be oxidized. I think that there is a pretty good consensus that the polyphenols are the "good stuff" in olive oil, although MUFAs are a fair choice as lipids go. At any rate, think that light EVOO would generally be considered less good for you as a general everyday choice when compared to a high poly oil, usually an oil that the OO industry would label a "robust" oil.

[YOLF]

I understood that he's only been taking C60 for around the last 10 months, I'm just saying it doesn't seem to be causing any re-injury which could be likely in a case where there has been injury.

[hav]

I understood that he's only been taking C60 for around the last 10 months, I'm just saying it doesn't seem to be causing any re-injury which could be likely in a case where there has been injury.

That was my point exactly... with background to explain why I'm still getting annual ct scans.

Howard

[niner]

I understood that he's only been taking C60 for around the last 10 months, I'm just saying it doesn't seem to be causing any re-injury which could be likely in a case where there has been injury.

That was my point exactly... with background to explain why I'm still getting annual ct scans.

I wouldn't expect re-injury to be very likely. The new tissue should either be normal tissue or scar tissue, but I don't see why it would be more injury-prone.

Howard, what did they think the nature of these markings were? Are they worried about cancer development? Maybe you could start stretching out the time between CTs, or even stop altogether. The wisdom of that would depend on exactly what they thought was going on, but there's a price to be paid for a CT- it's a significant dose of x-rays.

[YOLF]

He's right. I certainly wouldn't get any CTs you didn't need.Though I have seen talk about C60 effectively preventing damage from UV radiation. Perhaps blood tests for O2 radicals with and without C60 directly after the CT scan would reveal if it has any effect on mitigating X-Ray damage if they are something you have to have done. It could become standard procedure to give C60 prior to undergoing nuclear diagnostics.

[VP.]

He's right. I certainly wouldn't get any CTs you didn't need.Though I have seen talk about C60 effectively preventing damage from UV radiation. Perhaps blood tests for O2 radicals with and without C60 directly after the CT scan would reveal if it has any effect on mitigating X-Ray damage if they are something you have to have done. It could become standard procedure to give C60 prior to undergoing nuclear diagnostics.

C60 is radioprotective in mice.

The polyhydroxylated fullerene derivative C60(OH)24 protects mice from ionizing-radiation-induced immune and mitochondrial dysfunction.

Although the protective effect of the polyhydroxylated fullerene derivative C(60)(OH)(n) against ionizing radiation is an area of much interest, the mechanisms relating to how polyhydroxylated fullerene derivatives improve mitochondrial dysfunction remain unknown. In order to find new and effective radioprotective agents, we synthesized a new polyhydroxylated fullerene molecule with 24 hydroxyl groups of known positions on C(60) and studied its protective effects in mice subjected to irradiation. Mice were pretreated with C(60)(OH)(24) for 2 weeks (daily, 40 mg/kg i. p.), then subjected to a lethal dose of whole body gamma-irradiation (from a (60)Co source). Survival was observed for 30 days after irradiation. Immune and mitochondrial dysfunction and oxidative damage were analyzed in mice with the same C(60)(OH)(24) pretreatment and irradiation except that the animals were euthanized at day 5 after the irradiation. It was found that 2-week C(60)(OH)(24) pretreatment effectively reduced whole body irradiation-induced mortality without apparent toxicity. C(60)(OH)(24) pretreatment also showed significant protective effects against ionizing-radiation-induced decreases in immune and mitochondrial function and antioxidant defense in the liver and spleen. These results suggest that the polyhydroxylated fullerene derivative C(60)(OH)(24) protects against ionizing-radiation-induced mortality, possibly by enhancing immune function, decreasing oxidative damage and improving mitochondrial function.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19914272
http://www.owndoc.co...-protection.pdf

[Adaptogen]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20064541 Carbon fullerenes (C60s) can induce inflammatory responses in the lung of mice.

[niner]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....bmed/20064541 Carbon fullerenes (C60s) can induce inflammatory responses in the lung of mice.

That link didn't work for me- here's a fixed version. In this study, they instilled pristine c60, probably in the form of aggregates, in the lungs of mice. It will end up on the outer surface of the alveoli, exposed to a high oxygen tension. These aggregates can lead to inflammation That's a very different situation than we're dealing with. C60-oo is a single molecule (non-aggregate) species that's absorbed through the GI tract and transported internally throughout the body. It localizes to lipid membranes, particularly the mitochondrial membranes. In this context, the membrane-bound c60-oo acts as an anti-inflammatory, because it can accept and detoxify the radical species that are involved in chronic inflammation.

[zorba990]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....bmed/20064541 Carbon fullerenes (C60s) can induce inflammatory responses in the lung of mice.

Don't inhale it. http://toxsci.oxford.../123/2/576.full

Ironically if you did then C60oo would likely protect u against the inflammation until you could clear it.

[Adaptogen]

Ah, thanks for clarifying! I knew there was a reason that study wasn't already brought up...

[Kevnzworld]

Here's my experience.
I've never had lung or respiratory issues . I've never smoked. I did have a pulmonary embolism 4 years ago that came from a DVT.
That being said. I've been taking C60 for eight months, one week on, one week off. This last month I was in a cruise, and drinking wine every night. I've read about the liver protective effects of C60, so I dosed .8 mg daily. I know that wasn't smart per se.
I developed a terrible hack, cough, lung sensitivity unlike anything I've ever experienced. I stopped the C 60 a week ago, I'm off the ship and yet the condition persists. Could it be an infection, noro virus or something else that I contracted on the cruise? Obviously.
Yet I feel that iI should report this.

[MacD]

I had 3 days of chest/lung discomfort after I started dosing on c60. I didnt even know others were reporting it because this thread is the first time I had known about it.

It was veering on the edge of painful.

It has now gone.

Not a shred of doubt in my mind that the cause was c60 related. Ive never had chest pains before.

[rashlan]

I also had a persistent cough when starting c60. It lasted about a week and hasn't reoccurred since so it could just be a coincidence.

Actually, I think it could of been the extremely peppery olive oil irritating my throat. I was using the California Olive Ranch oil and it would cause a scratching sensation in my throat a few minutes after ingesting it.

[YOLF]

I also had a persistent cough when starting c60. It lasted about a week and hasn't reoccurred since so it could just be a coincidence.

Actually, I think it could of been the extremely peppery olive oil irritating my throat. I was using the California Olive Ranch oil and it would cause a scratching sensation in my throat a few minutes after ingesting it.

I usually use light OO as a regular preventative for lots of things. I've tried the EVOO when I ran out and it does cause me some discomfort in my throat. Haven't used C60 though, so I really can't compare.

[niner]

I'm off the ship and yet the condition persists. Could it be an infection, noro virus or something else that I contracted on the cruise? Obviously.

Yeah, sounds like you picked up a bug. You might need an antibiotic. C60, either in olive oil or HyFn format, has been reported to protect against at least some forms of respiratory infections. I usually get whatever people around me have, if it's something new and infectious. Earlier this year, both my wife and son came down with the flu, and aside from a brief headache, it passed me by. They both developed bacterial secondary infections, then while treating that with Azithromycin, my wife had some other bacterium arise, and that's the one that got me. It took a couple weeks for me to get over that. Now my son has a cold, and so far I haven't picked it up. Grigoriy Andrievsky says that the C60 protective effect is due to improved barrier function. I don't know if they've done any testing that shows that, but it's a reasonable hypothesis. Inflammation compromises mucosal barrier function.

[niner]

I had an interesting experience at my doctor's office the other day. First, a little background: I grew up in one of the smoggiest parts of southern California, near a couple busy streets and not far from the I-10 freeway. The smog was terrible. In the summer, if you went swimming in a chlorinated pool, later your lungs would burn and it would hurt to inhale. There was probably some major oxidative damage going on there. Later, as a teenager, there were a couple summers where I smoked a lot of cheap Mexican weed. Some of it might have been dusted with paraquat- hard to say, but I guarantee that it wasn't good for lung tissue. In later years, I developed some allergies that were undiagnosed and untreated for a long time. In my mid thirties, I finally made my way to an allergist. He was shocked at how crappy my lung function was. The main problem is scar-like tissue remodeling that has increased the resistance to airflow. The main figure of merit is Fev1, (forced expiratory volume in one second) the maximum amount of air you can exhale in one second. At that time, I was about 40% below normal. I've probably had my lung function checked about 50 times in the past 20 years, and it's never been that great. Fortunately, it's not bad enough to impact daily living or athletic function. We've been monitoring it closely and I've been avoiding further lung damage wherever possible.

Last week, I saw my doctor for one of my frequent checkups. He listened to my chest as usual, and since I'd been pretty good about using my inhalers, and hadn't had any infections, I thought it would be routine. When he was done, he said, "let's check your breathing." I was surprised, and asked him if it sounded bad. He said "No- it sounds good. I want to get an upper bound." So we did the spirometry, and my Fev1 and total lung volume were better than they had ever been! My Fev1 was about 20% below normal for my age. I immediately wondered if this unexpected improvement in airway function could be related to my C60-oo use. I've been using c60 for about 7 months. The only other possible confounding factor is that I started doing a minimal HIIT regimen about six or eight weeks ago. This is the 20 seconds / three times approach, which I've done at most three times a week. This sort of airway dysfunction doesn't particularly respond to exercise, as far as I'm aware. I've done lots of different kinds of aerobic exercise over the years without seeing an improvement like this. If c60 wasn't involved in my unexpected improvement in lung function, then I can at least say that it doesn't seem to have hurt!

[markymark]

Niner,
I feel very happy to hear this ! Well, maybe retest FEV-1 next week if possible, to substantiate the finding. And it will be interesting to follow up things. Maybe you will end up at 100 %, which I'd wish for you. C60 for treatment of COPD, well maybe true and it makes sense too.
All I can contribute to lung and C60 is the following subjective sentiment: In parallel, 5-7 days after staring, when the positive effects regarding strength and endurance kicked in, I noticed that breathing in to me became like as the air became a bit kind of some cold liquid coming into my lungs. It was not that I felt drowning, on the contrary it was a pleasing sensation. And needless to say while I am writing this, I have to concentrate and try to sense myself as to w. the efect is still there. It is because we all get used to the effects more or less.
best
mm

Edited by markymark, 28 June 2013 - 06:54 AM.

[mpe]

Niner,

Your lung function story is remarkable and supported by comments made by a workmate whom I have introduced to C60oo.
Because of the nature of our work its not uncommon not to see each other for weeks on end. Anyway after she started on C60oo I didnt see her for several weeks, one morning she came up to me and told me of her experience with it. She stated that the single greatest change was in her lung function and her ability to run. Never having had any breathing issues myself i didn't think much of it at the time although she often mentions it when we talk. I'll try to get some more details from her.

Mike

[taho]

Good to hear that your lungs are in a better condition. It sounds quite possible that is related to C60-oo. Reduced chronic inflamation would allow your body to finally fix your lungs.

[Turnbuckle]

I also had a persistent cough when starting c60. It lasted about a week and hasn't reoccurred since so it could just be a coincidence.

Actually, I think it could of been the extremely peppery olive oil irritating my throat. I was using the California Olive Ranch oil and it would cause a scratching sensation in my throat a few minutes after ingesting it.

I usually use light OO as a regular preventative for lots of things. I've tried the EVOO when I ran out and it does cause me some discomfort in my throat. Haven't used C60 though, so I really can't compare.

You want to avoid coating your throat with oil. First drink water, then add water to your oil dose and drink it quickly, then more water. Your throat would prefer to be wet than oily, so you shouldn't have a problem.