71 replies to this topic

[Thorsten3]

The uridine stack modulates dopamine - like a rapid homeostasis. It provides excellent mood uplifting effects for most people and also sleep benefits by positively affecting circadian rhythms.

May help?

I personally doubt whether it would be of use for this issue. I suspect uridine modulates DA in the brain, but, it's doubtful it does so outside the BBB, out in the periphery. If it did modulate everywhere I'd be able to take low dose amisulpride void of side effects! Who knows; I may be wrong.

[Steve Zissou]

Resevatrol has been shown to influence dopamine. I would go for sulbutamine though, it resensitizes your dopamine receptors. Try taking it everyday for 2 weeks or so.

For sleep try getting some melatonin.

Edited by Steve Zissou, 08 April 2013 - 11:10 AM.

[krsna]

LOL


btw can someone sum up the movie for me. i cant bother watching

***SPOILER***


based on a true story (how much so I'm not sure).

a wave of encaphalitis lethargica sweeps across the world leaving a bunch of people in a catatonic state

a doctor at a hospital sees a link between parkinsons patients and these catatonic patients and decides to megadose one of them on the newly released l-dopa drug

the patient who had been in a catatonic state for 30 years suddenly wakes up and is functional.

permission is given to megadose the rest of the dozen or so patients and they all wake up too from their 30 year long 'sleeps'

eventually weird abberations begin to show, the first patient begins to exhibit aggressive paranoid behaviour, as well as several uncontrollable tics

in the end it's a bit ambiguous what takes place, it's almost implied that the mother of the first patient, or the first patient of his own recognizance decides it's preferable to be in the catatonic state than to live with the insane amount of tics.

all the other patients apparently either follow the same course or the medication stops working on them.

[MrHappy]

The uridine stack modulates dopamine - like a rapid homeostasis. It provides excellent mood uplifting effects for most people and also sleep benefits by positively affecting circadian rhythms.

May help?

I personally doubt whether it would be of use for this issue. I suspect uridine modulates DA in the brain, but, it's doubtful it does so outside the BBB, out in the periphery. If it did modulate everywhere I'd be able to take low dose amisulpride void of side effects! Who knows; I may be wrong.

Sure, but OP is talking about mood, libido and sleep, all inside the BBB.

[leanguy]

Thanks for the responses. I'm already on TRT, so no need for OTC test boosters. I'm going to look into the uridine and sulbutamine. Not sure if they will reduce prolactin, but worth a try.

[spermidine]

there are two forms of uridine sold on the market. i asked mrhappy to tell me which one is better and which he takes but he didnt respond to me in PM yet. neither does he state that anywhere in any thread that i have seen :/

[daouda]

If you had bothered to skim his uridine thread he s made it clear that he personally uses and favors uridine monophosphate taken sublingually but thinks tri acetyl uridine works OK too.

[leanguy]

Apparently high doses of L-Arginine can boost DA.


L-Arginine produces NO-independent increases in dopamine efflux in rat striatum

Abstract

THE effect of L-arginine (L-ARG; 10-100 mM) on dopamine efflux from rat striatum was investigated using in vivo microdialysis. L-ARG (50 mM-100 mM), but not D-arginine (100 mM) nor L-citrulline (100 mM), produced a biphasic effect on dopamine efflux with an initial small reduction, followed by a large sustained increase. The effect of L-ARG was not prevented by nitric oxide synthase inhibition with N^G-nitro-L-arginine methyl ester or 7-nitroindazole monosodium salt. Efflux of 3,4-dihydroxyphenylacetic acid (DOPAC) and homovanillic acid (HVA) was reduced by L-ARG (10-100 mM), D-arginine (100 mM) and L-citrulline (100 mM). These data suggest that changes in dopamine, DOPAC and HVA efflux produced by high concentrations of L-ARG occur independently of NO, and that the use of high L-ARG concentrations are inappropriate when investigating the role of NO in striatum.

Edited by leanguy, 09 April 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[TheProblemSolved]

Hello leanguy;

I've been sent by god to bring relief to all of your symptoms lol. But seriously . I know what's going on with you and I will help you and I can guarantee you, you will feel %100 better. Just bear with me. I also suffered from this condition in the past. But its all gone now. I will tell you what's going on and how you're going to fix it.


I read all of your previous posts and blood test results. In fact, you are the reason I created an account here. I would like to help people that are suffering from this condition.

First off all let's see what's going on and why.

Symptoms related to high noradrenaline:

*ED
*Excessive wind
*Insomnia
*Anxiety
*Inflammation


Symptoms related to low dopamine:
*Difficulty concentrating
*weak orgasms
*low libido
*lack of motivation in life

What can show in your blood tests:
*Slightly low testosterone for your age
*Slightly elevated cortisol levels


So why are you having these symptoms? As you know noradrenaline controls fight or flight system of your body. when your noradrenaline levels are constantly high, it will put your body in a survival mode. In survival mode, your digestion and ability to have sex are shut down and all of your blood is diverted to your muscles and your heart.

Anyway. you probably know all this so I will move onto how you developed this condition.

You, more than likely, put your body through excessive stress at some point and this increased your body's "dopamine beta hydroxylase" activity to create more noradrenaline out of your dopamine reserves. This stress could have been physical(straneous activity with little to no rest and a low calorie diet with multi-vitamins) or emotional. Doesn't matter because your body doesn't care. it responds the same way. So during this period, you simply became "copper-dominant". Honestly, I think your problem happened when you were trying to shed a few pounds while taking multi-vitamins. Why do I think this? Because, when you're heavily training on a low carb diet, your body consumes more zinc than you will ever need to put up with the stress you're putting through it and usually multi-vitamins have waaaaay more copper than you would ever need. Your body usually maintains a good Zinc/copper ration. However, you heavily altered this ratio by doing whatever you did.It might not have been your multi-vitamins. It could simply have been you becoming zinc deficcient at some point.

Why is your zinc/copper ration is important?

Dopamine beta hydroxylase(DBH) is activated by copper. So when you are high on copper and low on zinc, there is a constant DBH activation.

Why are you going through this condition?

Because , too much DBH activation leads to elevated noradrenaline levels. Constant high noradrenaline levels up-regulates your noradrenaline receptors, so you become noradrenaline insensitive. So your body asks for more noradrenaline. This leads to more DBH activation. Constant high noradrenaline levels will also strip your body off your zinc and vitamin D. When you lack these, your body also won't be able to elevate your testosterone symptoms properly.

Common mistakes:

*Using dopamine reuptake inhibitors: These will temporarily alleviate your symptoms but your extra dopamine will get converted to noradrenaline anyway so you don't want to take this way.
*Beta blockers: You dont want to block your noradrenaline receptors, you want to down regulate them naturally(by reducing your noradrenaline levels). simply blocking them will not down regulate them so you will have to take them forever if you want the benefits(if any)
*Trying supplements to promote dopamine or testosterone: These will not work, you probably already know this.
*Using HRT/TRTs to alleviate symptoms
*Taking SSRIs to help with your symptoms: this wont work!! especially when you're dopamine defficient! your will become Seratonin dominant so quickly! meaning no orgasms, no zest in life!
*Taking herbal adrenal stimulants: Aswhagandha and all. You don't need these. you probably took them before with no success anyway

Related conditions:
*your elevated noradrenaline levels will also elevate your cortisol levels. so you might experience elevated cortisol levels as well.
*your thyroid function maybe affected by this. Simply because elevated cortisol/noradrenaline levels put your body in a catabolic mode. so your thyroid naturally slows down your metabolism to prevent further catabolic action. Your thyroid is actually helping you here. so don't ever take thyroid pills. As you get better your T3/T4 levels will go up.


SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

The answer you have been looking for is here!

HOW DO WE FIX IT!?!?!

First of all, it will not be easy but you will eventually get better. Some symptoms will vanish within a week, the others will take longer.

The right way to go is to make your body, Noradrenaline/Cortisol sensitive again. How? By Inhibiting your DBH enzyme and your ACTH receptors!! How do you do that?

*You need to become "ZINC DOMINANT AGAIN"!!! To do so you will need 0.25mg-0.40mg zinc per lbs daily!!!
*Also to boost your dopamine and testosterone production you will need lots of lots of vitamin D! like 10.000 IU a day!
*You will also have to directly lower your noradrenaline levels! Herbal supplements or SSRI will not work! Large doses of "Taurine" is what you need! 5g-8g a day!
*You also need to lower your ACTH and eventually cortisol . To do so , you need to take large doses of "phosphatidylserine". 600mg to 1gr a day!
*Avoid excessive vitamin C as it promotes noradrenaline
*Completely avoid copper!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*Increase your caloric intake by at least 500 a day!


AND FINALLY!

The magic drug you've been looking for! The drug that will actually directly block DBH! The enzyme that converts dopamine to noradrenaline. Your number one enemy! It is called "Disulfiram". Commercially known as Antabuse. People take it because it inhibits the enzyme that hydrolyzes alcohol. so when they drink they get panic attack like symptoms. Anyway. This drug also significantly inhibits DBH! So you will eventually have higher dopamine and lower noradrenaline levels! I suggest you take 5mg-8mg per lbs daily! keep in mind that you can NOT drink on this drug at all!!!!!!!!!

So your cure as a started should look like this:
(Do this for 2 months)
Daily:
*60mg zinc
*800mg phosphatidylserine
*6g Taurine
*10.000 IU Vitamin D
*1000 mg Disulfiram



Prognosis:

Unfortunately our bodies are prone to this condition so we need to maintain a healthy state. Once you feel good, get another blood test done. If you're happy with the results. Stop taking disulfiram. You should probably lower your zinc and taurine intake too.

Your maintenance dosage should look like this:

*30mg zinc
*400mg phosphatidylserine
*3g Taurine
*5.000 IU Vitamin D.

I would say you will feel your old self within 3 months. But everybody is different. Good luck and let me know about your process!

[TheProblemSolved]

I also read that you said, you think your adrenals and thyroid are bad, that's why your body compensates with adrenaline. luckily that's how our bodies work. They can't simply compensate for the loss of a hormone/neurotransmitter by simply increasing another. and I don't know why you think your adrenals are bad when there's a tone of adrenaline in your body. lol. if your adrenals were bad your adrenaline would be low too. You could be however, experiencing low thyroid symptoms but I explained why in the previous post! About your prolactin levels, I wouldn't address this issue directly. Follow my cure for 3 months. As your dopamine&testosterone levels get better, your prolactin will decrease. if not, you can try dostinex for a brief period . However, make sure your DBH is in check. You don't want a trigger a noradrenaline rush again! you can pm me if you have more questions

Edited by TheProblemSolved, 12 April 2013 - 11:56 AM.

[leanguy]

ProblemSolved, thanks very much for the long and detailed response. You are definitely correct about the noradrenaline being the main problem. The root cause I'm still not too sure about. Probably stress, overtraining, or infection (I had a positive test for lyme).

Zinc/Copper -- I've been taking 30mg zinc for years, and no copper except from food
Vitamin D -- my levels are 100% by only supplementing 400iu
Cortisol -- tests indicate low/normal. phosphaditylserine might make this worse.
Weight -- I've always been lean (hence my name lol)... no dieting

I'll need to discuss disulfiram with my doctor. I've known about it, but have been reluctant to try it due to the nasty side effects. A friend of mine ended up with projectile vomiting from a minute bit of alcohol in a salad dressing! It also screws with several other important enzymes. I was holding out for an alternative, nepicastat, to be approved soon because it doesn't have these side effects. Not sure that is going to happen. Taurine is helpful... I can increase that. Thanks again and I'll keep this thread updated!

Edited by leanguy, 12 April 2013 - 10:47 PM.

[TheProblemSolved]

Didn't know your cortisol levels were low. I still don't think you have adrenal fatigue. It could be your body's response to your condition. Again to prevent a catabolic breakdown. Yeah. Nepicastat is the drug we need but, it is only available in small doses at this moment and that's for scientific purposes. Once it gets approved we all can benefit from it. Zinc, taurine should help you. They helped me. Try increasing your zinc dosage. Disulfiram does have some nasty side effects. But its effects are reversible. So once its out of your system its out for good. it isnt a reuptake inhibitor of any kind so it wont harm your body. It may be heavy on your liver though. I only suggest taking it for a few months anyway. If you had an infection , your cortisol levels would go up. Is your lyme still positive or did you clear it up? Were your cortisol levels always low? or is it after your trt/hrt? Are you taking a lot of vitamin C? that could lower your cortisol levels. And also, since your noradrenaline levels are up, your body doesn't need much cortisol to increase your blood sugar. so it may be lower than you need. So it all comes down to fixing your noradrenaline levels!

PS: If you have like a few thousand dollars to spare, you can still take nepicastat. it is available online for scientific purposes.

[leanguy]

My cortisol has been low even before TRT, but I'm not a believer in "adrenal fatigue". The body has reasons for self adjusting hormones and neurotransmitters. In my case I believe the lyme has caused many unfortunate changes. I'm still trying to get rid of it. In the mean time I will try to control norepinephrine and recapture more dopamine. Thanks again for your input!

[TheProblemSolved]

I don't believe in adrenal fatigue either. I just thought you were describing adrenal fatigue. Anyway. Good luck man. Hope you get better!

[Redux]

Next logical step seems to me to look at your nutrition - suggest have a look at The UltraMind Solution by Mark Hyman, M.D. and The Primal Blueprint by Mark Sisson (this later one really good if you are into fitness). Might be suffering from an inflammation/allergy unbalancing your biological system, and expressing in this symptoms.

Edited by Redux, 14 April 2013 - 10:44 AM.

[NeuroNootropic]

Have you tried Rhodiola Rosea? It supposedly helps with 'adrenal fatigue', balancing hormones and is anti-inflammatory. You need to take it everyday for at least 2-3 weeks before assessing its effects.

Selegiline is also an option, but probably won't be effective as monotherapy.

Did you get an MRI? It could be a tumour since you mentioned your prolactin has been increasing.

You also mentioned you are on TRT, have you checked your Estradiol levels? Too high or too low could affect your mood.

[chung_pao]

Less food.
Eating/insulin triggers prolactin, inhibiting dopamine.

Either block insulin or eat less.
Exercise and orgasms also trigger prolactin. Avoid the activities that does.

Alt. if going the pharmaceutical route: ginkgo?

[leanguy]

Next logical step seems to me to look at your nutrition - suggest have a look at The UltraMind Solution by Mark Hyman, M.D. and The Primal Blueprint by Mark Sisson (this later one really good if you are into fitness). Might be suffering from an inflammation/allergy unbalancing your biological system, and expressing in this symptoms.

I will take a look. Many problems with inflammation/allergy.

Have you tried Rhodiola Rosea?
Did you get an MRI?
have you checked your Estradiol levels?

Yes to all. Nothing remarkable.

Less food. Eating/insulin triggers prolactin, inhibiting dopamine.
Either block insulin or eat less.
Exercise and orgasms also trigger prolactin. Avoid the activities that does.

Less food, less sex, less exercise... pass

[August59]

I gotta watch the movie Awakenings.. apparently it's based on a true story of mass l-dopa dosing.

Awakenings is a very good movie, but I'm sure there were dramatizations added to it. I don't think they use pure L-dopa for PD anymore due to it's half-life being only 50 minutes. Most have changed to Sinemet, but I don't see the big desire for it's use as it's half-life is only 90 minutes. There very well could be some others advantages to it, but it was apparent to me in the literature I read

[leanguy]

In this study, high dose melatonin reduces prolactin. But I have seen other studies showing the opposite.

http://www.pps.org.p...P/6-2/Zehra.pdf

Edited by leanguy, 29 April 2013 - 04:36 PM.

[Guardian4981]

Doesn't P-5-P lower prolactin?

[**DEACTIVATED**]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Deprenyl. Are you trying to avoid it for reasons unbeknownst?

[leanguy]

Doesn't P-5-P lower prolactin?

Yes, but increases anxiety for me.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Deprenyl. Are you trying to avoid it for reasons unbeknownst?

Same reason, I am sensitive to anxiety and insomnia.

[Guardian4981]

Doesn't P-5-P lower prolactin?

Yes, but increases anxiety for me.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Deprenyl. Are you trying to avoid it for reasons unbeknownst?

Same reason, I am sensitive to anxiety and insomnia.

I too am sensitve to anxiety, Swanson sells a P-5-P in 50mg capsules, you may want to try this. I find 100 mg gives me anxiety while 50 mg doesn't. Its always better to start lower if you can before dismissing something. I also find that I am more tolerant to P-5-P then other B6 forms which gives me horrid anxiety.

Also, P-5-P may lower blood sugar which could account for some of the anxiety, taking the P-5-P with a meal that has carbs may help.

I struggle with low dopamine as well though it seems to have improved a bit as of late.

What is your diet like? I used to do CR, but since adding back more carbs feels like my libido and dopamine are up a bit.

A high quality forskolin extract seems to help, seems to boost the thyroid a bit. Mucana Pruiens seems to help keep depression moderated, and depression is related to both dopamine and or serotonin. I use both of these.

I also rotate between D aspartic acid and Tongat Ali, both seem to boost test and perhaps boost dopamine.

I personally think there is some kind of connection between the thyroid and dopamine. We know that estrogen tends to boost serotonin and serotonin inhibits T3, which may explain why women have higher incidence of hypothyroidism and anxiety. Generally whatever serotonin does, dopamine does the opposite. So dopamine may increase thyroid output, and one has to wonder if the reverse is also true, if higher thyroid hormones help dopamine.

I also think dopamine can be a sort of self fullfiling prophecy of the mind as well. When I was with my ex my libido was through the roof, I really liked her and was attracted to her, seems my thyroid was better then to she literally told me she could feel the heat coming off me just standing near me. But since we split and I have been depressed my libido is much lower and I get cold hands and feet sometimes.

So wonder has to wonder how much your state of mind plays a role. Through using supps I mentioned earlier I feel maybe 40% better but I still do not feel as optimal as when I was happy with a woman in my life.

Edited by Guardian4981, 29 April 2013 - 08:15 PM.

[Redux]

Strongly suggest to first see why you have anxiety, and follow this really strong lead. Problems with cortisol / insulin cause a number symptoms commonly expressed in anxiety (reduced GABA and Dopamine levels subsequently affecting Proclating and Testosterone levels).

High COMT activity breaks dopamine - http://www.socialanx.....<br /><br />Inflamation-based anxiety - http://www.socialanx...-mental-216164/

Also you should check other natural ways of dealing with stress, like Meditation, CBT, and most helped me was Sedona Method / Byron Katie's The Work are excellent dealing with emotional issues. Ideia is that your mind adapt to your stress and go around it. I can send you via PM a link to download this material. Cant really underline enough this last statment - mind/ego control's everything, and can overcome anything.

Edited by Redux, 30 April 2013 - 04:52 AM.

[**DEACTIVATED**]

What about Theanine? Seems to be right up your alley.

I just dont see how you avoid anxiety while boosting dopamine.

[leanguy]

Thanks for the great responses!

Also, P-5-P may lower blood sugar which could account for some of the anxiety, taking the P-5-P with a meal that has carbs may help.

What is your diet like? I used to do CR, but since adding back more carbs feels like my libido and dopamine are up a bit.

I personally think there is some kind of connection between the thyroid and dopamine. We know that estrogen tends to boost serotonin and serotonin inhibits T3, which may explain why women have higher incidence of hypothyroidism and anxiety. Generally whatever serotonin does, dopamine does the opposite. So dopamine may increase thyroid output, and one has to wonder if the reverse is also true, if higher thyroid hormones help dopamine.

I was not aware that P5P can reduce blood sugar. I do have issues with hypoglycemia, which definitely contributes to anxiety and insomnia. I try to stay on a hypoglycemic type of diet... primarily protein based with complex carbs. You are absolutely right about dopamine and thyroid... there are many studies to back this up.

Strongly suggest to first see why you have anxiety, and follow this really strong lead. Problems with cortisol / insulin cause a number symptoms commonly expressed in anxiety (reduced GABA and Dopamine levels subsequently affecting Proclating and Testosterone levels).

High COMT activity breaks dopamine - http://www.socialanx.....<br /><br />Inflamation-based anxiety - http://www.socialanx...-mental-216164/

Thanks for the links... I am still going through it all. You are correct... the root cause of my dopamine loss is stress/anxiety/insomnia. Inflammation is a big problem. I had a positive test for lyme (igm western blot), but it is hard to know for sure. Certain anti-inflammatories are helpful. I noticed the best effects from ecklonia cava. Unfortunately like many antiinflammatory/antioxidant supplements, it made the hypoglycemia worse and I had to stop taking it. Maybe if I stick with it longer, the blood sugar would stabilize as I adapted to the insulin sensitivity?

What about Theanine? Seems to be right up your alley.

I just dont see how you avoid anxiety while boosting dopamine.

Yes I take theanine daily. When neurotransmitters are in balance, including dopamine, there should be no anxiety.


One more note... does undermethylation/histadelia exist here? I know it doesn't at M&M FWIW I do have high blood histamine. I couldn't find much in the way of studies to back up the effect of high histamine on neurotransmitters.

Edited by leanguy, 30 April 2013 - 04:20 PM.

[**DEACTIVATED**]

Well its good to hear that you're digging deeper into the problem instead of just covering it up.

Do you mind telling us you're dosage of theanine and how long you've been taking it? Reports of tolerance around this board have been scarce.. but I fear there is an inevitable down regulation of gaba receports.

I plan to add it to my regimen too.

[Guardian4981]

Every time I have tried theanine I get a bad headache and feel depressed!

[leanguy]

Do you mind telling us you're dosage of theanine and how long you've been taking it? Reports of tolerance around this board have been scarce.. but I fear there is an inevitable down regulation of gaba receports.

400mg twice a day for about a month. The effects definitely diminish over time for me.