122 replies to this topic

[nickthird]

Thanks!

It's a different cancer type but the link is helpful. She has some very good advice on increasing bioavailability (heat & dissolving in fat cocoa milk).

[Justchill]

So are you guys buying those pills or eating plain turmeric root powder (exctract)?

[8bitmore]

On the whole subject of bio-availability I concur with the sentiment that Curcumin/Turmeric seems to absorb very well by mixing it in with fats: I have been taking my coffee in a sort of modified bulletproof-lite form (i.e. been blending my coffee with half a teaspoon of butter and half a teaspoon of cold-pressed coconut oil) by additionally blending in half a spoonful of organic turmeric - the effect is quite strong: noticeable lightheadedness - so be careful and maybe try lower dosage first.

[teacult]

I am taking a mixture of turmeric , cassia ,resveratrol and safflower (less potent turkish saffron) with olive oil and honey. This mixture results in stable mood and better concentration. If i lack sleep i combo it with black tea and 20 minutes jog, so that i get crystal focus for 3.5 hours, it gets normalized in 6 hours. I dont have any idea about pepper never tried such combo. Still got slight attention and motivation problems unless i turned things into challange and get really angry. I think smoking and coffee combination frags some people like me for good :(

Edited by teacult, 30 October 2013 - 10:55 PM.

[Godof Smallthings]

I don't want to sound alarmist, but if you smoke, or have been smoking, you may want to reconsider curcumin, in case this study is applicable to humans: http://carcin.oxford.../30/6/1016.full

Short summary of their findings is that in mice with damaged lung tissue, orally administered curcumin promoted lung tumour growth.

As an ex-smoker of 15 years (who quit 9 years ago), I was not happy to see this study...

[sbenton]

I've been taking a teaspoon of turmeric with black pepper twice a day, saturated in olive oil, for about two weeks now. I assume that this is effective, the pipernine in black pepper supposedly increases bioavailability 20-fold.

Primary effects I have noted so far are:
clearer, healthier looking skin, more energy/motivation for physical activity, reduced muscle soreness, cognitive enhancement, and mood elevation. The nootropic effects seem comparable to a moderate dose of piracetam. Of course all of these are very subjective.

I also notice I get very thirsty within 30 minutes of taking my daily dose, I'm not sure why this would be. Something I also notice with ashwagandha.

[Jackhill41]

I don't want to sound alarmist, but if you smoke, or have been smoking, you may want to reconsider curcumin, in case this study is applicable to humans: http://carcin.oxford.../30/6/1016.full

Short summary of their findings is that in mice with damaged lung tissue, orally administered curcumin promoted lung tumour growth.

As an ex-smoker of 15 years (who quit 9 years ago), I was not happy to see this study...

Thanks very much for posting this. I also quit smoking 9 years ago, after smoking for 8 years. I take curcumin and am a big fan of it, but cycle a month on, month off in a (probably useless) attempt to minimize any unknown negative effects it has. I'll keep doing so, but research following up on this study is definitely something to keep an eye on.

Beta carotene, possibly curcumin ... I wonder how many supplements out there are best avoided by ex-smokers?

[teacult]

Lots of pharmacologist, classical books are referring curcumin as a anti-cancer anget and it is found in most of the formulas used treating late stage of cancer. I dont know how to check the credibility of this research . I am not sure the most important factor is the h number or the method used since I dont have essential knowledge about the field , although I started reading biochemistery, organic chemistery , bioengineering and conceptual anti-aging and nootropic books. I doubt that I can reach to you guys soon, since I still sense that my performance is weak and I am also engaged in non related , computation and mechanical engineering projects ... (results of divergent behaviour of ADHD ~ cannot get enough dopamine so I sub-conciusly switch quickly from one to other which keeps me going and also made me preoccupied.).

Currently mine otc is : 1g cassia 2g turmeric 2g resveratrol 1g safflower 5g olive oil 10 g honey 5 g soy souce (salty) 5g promegrenate juice with some lemon juice.
I am an heavy ex -moker of 11 years I am clean for 6 months and plan to be clean of smoking rest of my life.

Please big brothers on forum speculate on curcumin issue, I really want to get informed about state of the art over-the-counter remedies of cognitive enhancement.

[Chris Edited]

I joined specifically to add additional published research findings on the topic of curcumin and lung cancer in smokers and ex-smokers.

As I can not yet post links I'll merely paste an excerpt from the conclusion of the article and some info to aid your locating the full study results.

From;




Curcumin inhibits COPD-like airway inflammation and lung cancer progression in mice SJ Moghaddam et al



"In summary, the results presented here support further the effectiveness of curcumin as a therapeutic agent, alone or in combination with current therapy against lung cancer. It could also be considered for use by current smokers or ex-smokers with or without COPD as a chemopreventive agent. Further understanding of the molecular mechanisms affected by curcumin treatment will provide a basis for rationally directed clinical testing of the efficacy of this agent and other selective anti-inflammatory/anti-tumoral agents in preventing COPD progression and lung carcinogenesis."



While it certainly doesn't refute the findings above it does appear to open it to question which further specific research will hopefully illuminate.

I had been taking 1g /day of a curcumin phytosome as Meriva then Longvida for perhaps 8 months till I read the findings posted above.

I smoked in my youth but have not with any regularity for perhaps 30 years. It was concerning as I'd been enjoying some relief of lower back pain due to mild disc degeneration above L5

Edited by Chris Edited, 15 November 2013 - 06:59 AM.

[blood]

I don't want to sound alarmist, but if you smoke, or have been smoking, you may want to reconsider curcumin, in case this study is applicable to humans: http://carcin.oxford.../30/6/1016.full

Short summary of their findings is that in mice with damaged lung tissue, orally administered curcumin promoted lung tumour growth.

As an ex-smoker of 15 years (who quit 9 years ago), I was not happy to see this study...

After how many years, after quitting smoking, does risk of lung cancer return to baseline?

[Ames]

I could be wrong, but my educated guess is zero. The damage will have caused a degree of accelerated aging or even permanent change (mutation?) in the tissue which forever puts you at a higher risk. It will likely revert to a healthier state after quitting, but never completely back to 'baseline' for your age. The close exception is if you started and stopped smoking at a very young age. At such a young age and with limited smoking years behind you, your lung tissue has a much higher chance of recovery toward what could be considered a 'baseline' condition.

[dunbar]

Do you guys simply take tumeric powder or are you using curcumin extracts?

[Justchill]

5g/ kurkuma (turmeric) powder a day with 10 mg bioperine ; and I smoke during weekends.
Helps a great teal with joint pains (also take MSM for that)

[panhedonic]

Did this affect your libido at all?

[dunbar]

Do you put the tumeric in foods and cook it? Does cooking destroy the health benefits?

And where can one buy pure biopiperine?

[Justchill]

libido: I don't think so...

recepe: just 5g kurkuma with some lemonade with MSM/Vitamin C and shake it and drink it

biopiperine: search on iherb

[dunbar]

What kind of effects do you get from curcumin? I mean how can you tell if it does anything?

And can you also mix curcumin with black pepper if you don't have piperine?

[Justchill]

Well actually just the pain-killing effects for sure. Other effects difficult to tell because al also take other supps. I think I feel OK while on curkuma. Be carefull however... the powder stains!!

If think u can mix witch black pepper, but Idon't know how much and it will make your drink too spicy I guess :pp

Edited by Justchill, 02 December 2013 - 12:48 AM.

[Chris Edited]

As I posted above I experienced the anti-inflammatory effects of Curcumin Phytosome (Curcumin bound withPhosphatidylcholine) in the prodcuts Meriva then Longvida for about 8 months.

There are published studies by the manufacturers of these products reporting on such effects .

Bioavailability of curcumin is substantially increased when bound with the PC.

I remembered reading the patients using Meriva for example reported arthritic pain relief similar to NSAID and I found the same to be true myself.

The hoped for neuroprotective effects will need more time to prove but if I understand what I have read such benefits should bear out over time as what testing and measuring of biological effects have been done demonstrate these benefits as far as bio markers for reduced inflammation and curcumin mediated beta amyloid plaque elimination

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22886017



http://onlinelibrary...enticated=false

I have yet to resume administering the remaining Longvida capsules I recently purchased after reading of the possible link with tumor advancement and am feeling more pain from various age related issues. I recently passed 50

Edited by Chris Edited, 02 December 2013 - 01:00 AM.

[Adaptogen]

For those without extracts, a tablespoon of turmeric powder contains roughly 600 mg curcumin.

A teaspoon of black pepper contains 50-100mg piperine. Only about 20mg of piperine is needed to enhance curcumin's bioavailabilty 2000%, so half a teaspoon of Piper nigrum should be plenty.

[choqueiro]

Hi guys

It´s curious the information posted by Godof Smallthings in post #35. Searching information about the possibility that curcumin promoted lung tumour growth I find a recent study that says the opposite: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23888319

"Tumour Biol. 2013 Jul 26. [Epub ahead of print]
Curcumin inhibits lung cancer progression and metastasis through induction of FOXO1.

Li ZC, Zhang LM, Wang HB, Ma JX, Sun JZ.

Source

Department of Ultrasound, The First Affiliated Hospital, General Hospital of Chinese PLA, Beijing, 100048, China.

Abstract


Recent population studies provide clues that the use of curcumin may be associated with reduced incidence and improved prognosis of certain cancers. In the present study, we demonstrated that curcumin acted as a growth inhibitor for lung cancer cells. Our results found that curcumin inhibited cell proliferation, which was associated with upregulation of the cyclin-dependent kinase inhibitors, p27 and p21, and downregulation of cyclin D1. In addition, we showed that curcumin induced the expression of forkhead box protein O1 (FOXO1) through activation of extracellular signal-regulated kinase 1/2 signaling. These findings provide evidence for a mechanism that may contribute to the antineoplastic effects of curcumin and justify further work to explore potential roles for activators of FOXO1 in the prevention and treatment of lung cancer".

According to this study curcumin instead of been harmful for the lungs it might be even beneficial for those with lung cancer. Contradictory information?? Which study is more reliable?? Any opinion??

[Godof Smallthings]

Nice find, and good questions.

1st thought: It is not necessarily the case that the two studies actually do provide contradictory information.

We could theoretically have a situation where curcumin facilitates the formation of lung cancer in damaged but non-cancerous lung tissue of smokers and ex-smokers (which is a possibility based on the study I posted - but then again, that was a rodent study where the model of damaged lung tissue was induced artificially, which means that there is no clear evidence of this effect occurring in humans, just a caveat that it could be smarter to avoid curcumin [if one does a cost/benefit analysis, a risk of inducing lung cancer in somebody who is comparatively healthy could mean that it is better to stay off curcumin], but in people who already suffer from lung cancer, it could have an inhibitory effect as indicated by the study you found.

[Hebbeh]

As proven in so many studies, humans aren't rodents and especially aren't transgenic rodents. Transgenic rodents used in studies rarely apply to humans. Transgenic rodents are bred to be sick and die. And as pointed out, inducing lung tumors with a potent chemical lung tumor promoter (especially in a transgenic mouse bred for lung cancer to boot) has zero real world implications. As such, the mutant mouse study has no application to our world unlike the real world study on humans referenced in post 51 above which is real science in a real world. Not to mention the hundreds if not thousands of years of anecdotal evidence of the health benefits of Curcumin (after all, that was how Curcumin was "discovered"). I know where I'll put my money.

[dunbar]

For those without extracts, a tablespoon of turmeric powder contains roughly 600 mg curcumin.

A teaspoon of black pepper contains 50-100mg piperine. Only about 20mg of piperine is needed to enhance curcumin's bioavailabilty 2000%, so half a teaspoon of Piper nigrum should be plenty.

Good to know!

But I wonder is it really enough to simply mix tumeric with black pepper and then drink it with water? What if the stuff is fat-soluble or what if it's still poorly absorbed?
I read that tumeric has very poor absorption.

btw: does piperin enhance the uptake of every substance? Could this not also be dangerous if the piperine enhances uptake of toxins in food or chemicals in food?

[Godof Smallthings]

btw: does piperin enhance the uptake of every substance? Could this not also be dangerous if the piperine enhances uptake of toxins in food or chemicals in food?

Wikipedia says:

Piperine has been found to inhibit human CYP3A4 and P-glycoprotein, enzymes important for the metabolism and transport of xenobiotics and metabolites.^[12] In animal studies, piperine also inhibited other enzymes important in drug metabolism.^[13][14] By inhibiting drug metabolism, piperine may increase the bioavailability of various compounds and alter the effectiveness of some medications.^[13] Notably, piperine may enhance bioavailability of curcumin by 2000% in humans.^[15] The exact mechanism of piperine's bioavailability enhancing abilities is unknown.^[16] Chemopreventive efficacy of curcumin and piperine has been shown during 7,12-dimethylbenz[a]anthracene-induced hamster buccal pouch carcinogenesis.^[17]

In essence: No, not it will not enhance the uptake of every substance, but if the substance in question is metabolized by CYP3A4 or P-glycoprotein, then it is likely to enhance uptake.

As to danger, since the exact mechanism is unknown, there could be some risks of the type you suggest.

Edited by Godof Smallthings, 09 December 2013 - 02:26 AM.

[dunbar]

This sounds concerning to me. I wasn't aware of that. Then how can a person know if she can even take piperine/black pepper when she's on prescription drugs like antidepressants?
Damn it's really like there are dangers everywhere. Now I don't even know if I can use black pepper.

What if it's the same issue as with grapefruits and drugs?

Edited by dunbar, 09 December 2013 - 02:28 AM.

[Godof Smallthings]

Since I'm just a happy amateur I think you ought to ask a pharmacist or doctor, but if I can speculate, then taking normal amounts of black pepper with your food is unlikely to have a huge effect, otherwise it would be included in pharmaceutical package leaflets, in the same way as grapefruit juice. After all, black pepper is common in cooking.

[blood]

Surprising finding - a mere one gram of plain old turmeric (taken with a breakfast of white bread) improves working memory. Participants in this study had pre-diabetes.

Just 1 Gram of This Spice Boosts Memory in Six Hours

One gram of turmeric at breakfast has been shown by a new study to improve memory in people with memory problems.

In the study itself participants were given 1 gram of turmeric mixed into their ordinary breakfasts (Lee et al., 2014).

Their working memory was tested before and some time after their breakfast, and the results were compared with a placebo-control condition.

Professor Wahlqvist, who led the Taiwanese study, explained the results:

“We found that this modest addition to breakfast improved working memory over six hours in older people with pre-diabetes.”

Diabetes and memory problems are linked because having diabetes makes it more likely that a person will also develop dementia if the diabetes is not well controlled.

Turmeric is a yellow spice already widely used in cooking, especially in Asia.

Its distinctive yellow colour is given to it by a substance called curcumin, which makes up between 3-6% of turmeric.

It is the curcumin which is thought to have an active effect in reducing the memory problems associated with dementia.

Professor Wahlqvist explained the importance of working memory, which was tested in this study:

“Working memory is widely thought to be one of the most important mental faculties, critical for cognitive abilities such as planning, problem solving and reasoning.

Assessment of working memory is simple and convenient, but it is also very useful in the appraisal of cognition and in predicting future impairment and dementia.”

He concluded:

“Our findings with turmeric are consistent with these observations, insofar as they appear to influence cognitive function where there is disordered energy metabolism and insulin resistance.”

The study appears to be in Taiwanese. English translation of the abstract:

Turmeric Improves Post-Prandial Working Memory in Pre-Diabetes Independent of Insulin

Abstract

Background and Objectives:

Cognitive impairment develops with pre-diabetes and dementia is a complication of diabetes. Natural products like turmeric and cinnamon may ameliorate the underlying pathogenesis.

Methods:

People ≥60 years (n = 48) with newly-recognised untreated pre-diabetes were randomised to a double-blind metabolic study of placebo, turmeric (1g), cinnamon (2g) or both (1g & 2g respectively), ingested at a white bread (119g) breakfast. Observations were made over 6 hours for pre- and post-working memory (WM), glycaemic and insulin responses and biomarkers of Alzheimer's disease (AD)(0,2,4 and 6 hours): amyloid precursor protein (APP), γ-secretase subunits presenilin-1 (PS1), presenilin-2 (PS2), and glycogen synthase kinase (GSK-3β). Differences between natural product users and non-users were determined by Students t and chi square tests; and between pre-test and post-test WM by Wilcoxon signed rank tests. Interaction between turmeric and cinnamon was tested by 2-way ANOVA. Multivariable linear regression (MLR) took account of BMI, glycaemia, insulin and AD biomarkers in the WM responses to turmeric and cinnamon.

Results:

No interaction between turmeric and cinnamon was detected. WM increased from 2.6 to 2.9 out of 3.0 (p = 0.05) with turmeric, but was unchanged with cinnamon. WM improvement was inversely associated with insulin resistance (r = -0.418, p＜0.01), but not with AD biomarkers. With MLR, the WM responses to turmeric were best predicted with an R^2 of 34.5%; and with significant turmeric, BMI and insulin/glucose AUC beta-coefficients.

Conclusions:

Co-ingestion of turmeric with white bread increases working memory independent of body fatness, glycaemia, insulin, or AD biomarkers.

[magta39]

I have read that whole ground up turmeric powder contains its own delivery system, naturally occurring oils and other compounds that increase its absorption.  Its only when you chemically try to isolate pure curcumin in an extract that it becomes hard to absorb.  A teaspoon of whole ground turmeric powder dissolves readily in water or a small amount of red wine. 

[Kalliste]

I go for the Turmeric root. It's delicious mixed with many types of food, it is a extremely powerful colorant and that makes me think it's better than the powder.