122 replies to this topic

[rezin]

I'm not a too big fan of Dave Asprey but I have adopted some of his practices.

 

My own "Bulletproof" Tea:

• Green Tea (organic, older leaves have more caffeine)
• Coconut oil
• Turmeric powder (3g)
• Black Pepper (freshly grinded)

You can add honey, cinnamon, milk whatever the fuck you want

[Kalliste]

It seems to give a buzz a very long time after ingestion. I notice that if I eat the fresh Turmeric roots 20g with food 4pm I will usually wake up about 2 to 4am and be unable to fall back asleep. I recall that Margarets Corner said something about absorption occuring about 8 hours later. Anyone know more about this?

[gamesguru]

It seems to give a buzz a very long time after ingestion. I notice that if I eat the fresh Turmeric roots 20g with food 4pm I will usually wake up about 2 to 4am and be unable to fall back asleep. I recall that Margarets Corner said something about absorption occuring about 8 hours later. Anyone know more about this?

 

As to your hypothesis, no, turmeric is not known to have a sustained or delayed absorption. It exhibits classic pharmacokinetics, with a distribution ½ life of about 30 minutes, and an elimination ½ life of about 90 minutes.

 

Twenty grams is a very immoderate dose, especially if taken with black pepper, or in nanoparticle form. I usually cook my turmeric 'poor man's saffron' with brown rice (per 2 cups of rice: ½ tbsp each dried turmeric and crushed black pepper). These 2 cups of rice last me 3 days, and I somehow include it with dinner, sometimes lunch. So usually just one ¼ tsp (0.5gram) dose a day, and that's good enough I think. Not sure I want to flood myself with turmeric or be "unable to fall back asleep".

Edited by dasheenster, 03 December 2014 - 07:31 PM.

[Kalliste]

Those twenty grams feel pretty good. I eat the fresh roots and I see no reason to eat any less, I will change this habit if gallstones hit me of course.

[Gerrans]

Those twenty grams feel pretty good. I eat the fresh roots and I see no reason to eat any less, I will change this habit if gallstones hit me of course.

 

On the question of turmeric and gallstones, I have my own theory. The other day, as I mentioned on another thread, I had some pains around that area somewhat after taking a level tablespoon of turmeric. I have been taking a level tablespoon a day since then with no further such pain.

 

I have had gallstone trouble in the past. Surprisingly, the last time I had anything like an attack was very shortly after starting a clean diet. So I have this thought that if a little pain comes on rare occasions after starting a dietary measure that makes the gallbladder release more bile, maybe that is a good, cleansing thing to have.

 

Reading around the web, some people say turmeric causes gallstone pains and other people say it reduces them. I think these different views are based on the same sparse literature. In my view, turmeric might induce symptoms representing a beneficial action around the gallbladder and liver areas. A short bout of pain could be a worthwhile exchange for better liver and gallstone health over time.

 

*

 

On the question of quantity, I think it might be necessary to eat quite a lot of root or turmeric powder to get sufficient quantities of the active agents to have a noticeable effect. But I am coming round to the idea that this might be a better way of taking turmeric than in concentrated capsules standardised to specific ingredients. For example, if you take a curcumin supplement, you might miss out on benefits that come from turmerones, or from synergies produced by the full spectrum food,

Edited by Gerrans, 03 December 2014 - 09:53 PM.

[mikela]

For example, if you take a curcumin supplement, you might miss out on benefits that come from turmerones, or from synergies produced by the full spectrum food,

 

 

The LEF product has turmerones and oil.

[Kalliste]

I don't know enough to make a clear statement but I prefer the roots. IIRC Josh Mitteldorf wrote something about it too.

On the one hand it might be appeal to nature fallacious to believe the roots are superior.

On the other hand there have been a lot of disappointment with trying to isolate ingredients from plants and putting them in pills.

 

If there is clear evidence for a pill formulation I will make the switch.

 

As it is, the roots are cheap, taste well, they stain my teeth UTTERLY yellow for hours afterwards and that might increase sublingual effects. I eat them with curcumin powder and generous amounts of currypowder and some extra black pepper and olive oil. I always heat the stuff before eating.

That local effect might be important, the most promising curcumin stuff was always the high concentration-in-vitro work.

Example

http://www.hindawi.c...cl/2012/902716/

 

Despite clear results of observational studies linking a diet rich in fruits and vegetables to a decreased cancer risk, large interventional trials evaluating the impact of dietary micronutrient supplementation, mostly vitamins, could not show any beneficial effects. Today it has become clear that a single micronutrient, given in supernutritional doses, cannot match cancer preventive effects of whole fruits and vegetables. In this regard polyphenols came into focus, not only because of their antioxidant potential but also because of their ability to interact with molecular targets within the cells. Because polyphenols occur in many foods and beverages in high concentration and evidence for their anticancer activity is best for tissues they can come into direct contact with, field cancerization predestines upper aerodigestive tract epithelium for cancer chemoprevention by polyphenols. In this paper, we summarize cancer chemopreventive attempts with emphasis on head and neck carcinogenesis and discuss some methodological issues. We present data regarding antimutagenic effects of curcumin and epigallocatechin-3-gallate in human oropharyngeal mucosa cultures exposed to cigarette smoke condensate.

 

Edited by Cosmicalstorm, 04 December 2014 - 06:51 AM.

[Justchill]

For me it's 5grams Kurkuma powder + 1 tablespoon macadamia oil + 10 mg bioperine every day.

 

Never felt any 'actual' effects, sometimes maybe a litlle less pains.. don't know for sure.

[Kalliste]

Here is a link to Margarets Corner which I referred to. She is as far as I know one of the biggest Curcumin proponents online and has written vast texts on the subject.

 

Bioavailability of curcumin

http://margaret.heal...ty-of-curcumin/

 

 

[rezin]

Here is a link to Margarets Corner which I referred to. She is as far as I know one of the biggest Curcumin proponents online and has written vast texts on the subject.

 

Bioavailability of curcumin

http://margaret.heal...ty-of-curcumin/

 

What we can add from her blog posts that heat is supposed to increase curcumin's bioavailability while boiling it would be counter-productive.

 

Increasing bioavailability of curcumin:

• bioperine (20x)
• heat < 100°C (12x)
• fat (fat soluble)

[rezin]

A Diet Enriched With Curcumin Impairs Newly Acquired and Reactivated Fear Memories.

Curcumin, a yellow-pigment compound found in the popular Indian spice turmeric (Curcuma longa), has been extensively investigated for its anti-inflammatory, chemopreventative and antidepressant properties.Here, we examined the efficacy of dietary curcumin at impairing the consolidation and reconsolidation of a Pavlovian fear memory, a widely studied animal model of traumatic memory formation in post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).We show that a diet enriched with 1.5% curcumin preventsthe training-related elevation in the expression of the immediate early genes (IEGs) Arc/Arg3.1 and Egr-1 in the lateral amygdala (LA)and impairs the'consolidation' of an auditory Pavlovian fear memory; short-term memory (STM) is intact, while long-term memory (LTM) is significantly impaired. Next, we show that dietary curcuminimpairs the 'reconsolidation' of a recently formed auditory Pavlovian fear memory; fear memory retrieval (reactivation)and post-reactivation (PR)-STM are intact, while PR-LTM is significantly impaired. Additional experiments revealed that dietary curcumin is also effective at impairing the reconsolidation of an older, well-consolidated fear memory. Further, we observed that fear memories that fail to reconsolidate under the influence of dietary curcumin are impaired in an enduring manner; unlike extinguished fear memories they are not subject to reinstatement or renewal. Collectively, our findings indicate that a diet enriched with curcumin is capable of impairing fear memory consolidation and reconsolidation processes, findings which may have important clinical implications for the treatment of disorders such as PTSD that are characterized by unusually strong and persistently reactivated fear memories.Neuropsychopharmacology accepted article preview online, 28 November 2014. doi:10.1038/npp.2014.315.

→ source (external link)

Edited by rezin, 08 December 2014 - 11:39 AM.

[Gerrans]

I am continuing my experiments with taking large amounts of powdered turmeric, which, if nothing else, have had a potent effect on my dreams. These dreams are very vivid and clear. If I take too much--3 tablespoons plus--the narratives become fragmented, though they remain crystal clear; but at about two tablespoons, the narratives develop organically and surprisingly rationally.

 

At this point, you might think "We do not want to hear about your dreams, mate".

 

But the reason I mention this is that it speaks of something in everyday supermarket turmeric that can affect the way the brain works. I do sometimes take a little black pepper, but bioavailability of turmeric does not seem to depend on it, at least insofar as these dreams are concerned.

 

It seems to me that the sort of things going on in my dreams are not so far removed from the processes into which curcumin is reported to penetrate, re Alzheimer's, etc., since visual and analytical elements seem enhanced.

 

For example, at the moment my alarm went off this morning, I was dreaming that I was buying some food in a delicatessen; and the proprietor was arguing with a customer who was complaining about the quality of his food. And I butted in to say that in the past all food was of readily available high quality. And he turned and fixed me with a piercing gaze and said, "How readily?" I was struck both in the dream and in the immediately following waking state by the challenging nature of this reply, since the great advantage of the modern age is that virtually everything is readily available. I do not usually dream debating points.

 

Another observation is that on turmeric I can wake up and then go back into the same world as the previous dream, almost picking up where I left off. That is unusual because normally separate new dreams follow on.

 

One thing we know about Alzheimer's is that thought is confused. On the contrary, my dreams on turmeric are remarkably unconfused. If curcumin or something else in turmeric is clearing away brain plaques, perhaps this is happening during sleep, when the brain is being refreshed and brain cells serviced.

 

*

 

I cannot be certain whether turmeric is having that much effect on my waking life, except that I am resuscitating my Italian at the moment and cannot get enough of it. I seem to be able to remember new words much more easily and, better still, to improvise sentences when I do not have all the necessary vocabulary. Who knows if the turmeric is at work? It does give a slight sense of increased clarity, but not particularly pleasantly, as it can feel just that slight bit uncomfortable, as if one is overbreathing in a hollow sort of way (cannot describe this). But it does not feel overtly like a stimulant.

 

I could be imagining all of the above; but I am constantly trying things out, and most things do not affect me at all or coincide with changes in my mental state.

Edited by Gerrans, 08 December 2014 - 09:58 PM.

[panhedonic]

After all this discussion, what's the general perception about turmeric and libido? does it affect it?

[rezin]

After all this discussion, what's the general perception about turmeric and libido? does it affect it?

 

I still want to fuck more than my girlfriend, doesn't seem to have any effect on my libido. I started taking it about two weeks ago.

I tried to find reliable sources for decreased libido caused by turmeric and failed dramatically. The only statements about that topic which I was able to find were by some dudes in a hairloss forum.

Edited by rezin, 09 December 2014 - 08:33 AM.

[StevesPetRat]

Fascinating. Do you guys think it would be safe (I know, asking medical advice on the internet) to attempt to prepare liposomal full turmeric, in light of the results presented in this thread? There's a method that seems to work for curcumin pretty well; it gives a reduction in my chronic sinusitis that the ordinary oral route doesn't (have only been using for a couple days, waiting to comment on further effects until placebo period passes). Would it be better to grind and soak the fresh root in hot water or just buy powder? Thanks for any advice.

[gamesguru]

Dried turmeric powder, stored away from light and at 70°F, stays good for at least 1 year, with ~60% of curcuminoids remaining intact. The fresh root is probably slightly better/more intact, but the dried powder is much more convenient (only have to buy it 3-4x yearly, never rots, nor needs refrigeration), with little trade off in terms of purity/potency.

[Kalliste]

Fascinating. Do you guys think it would be safe (I know, asking medical advice on the internet) to attempt to prepare liposomal full turmeric, in light of the results presented in this thread? There's a method that seems to work for curcumin pretty well; it gives a reduction in my chronic sinusitis that the ordinary oral route doesn't (have only been using for a couple days, waiting to comment on further effects until placebo period passes). Would it be better to grind and soak the fresh root in hot water or just buy powder? Thanks for any advice.

 

I have long tried to understand the dangers of Curcumin. From what I understand it's not particularly dangerous and it's a substance that has poor bio-availability so liposomal configuration might be good. On the other hand after reading many papers it seems to me that there is some amount of circular logic going on inside the curcumin research, and a lot of speculation based on ancient anecdotes.

 

Bharat Aggarwal is referred to in almost every paper, and he seems to be suspected of scientific fraud.

http://retractionwat...traction-watch/

http://www.chron.com...obe-3360037.php

 

 

There is speculation that it affects carbonylation from a study on transgenic mice. I tried contacting the author to know more but she never replied.

Lung tumor promotion by curcumin

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2691137/

 

The dark side of curcumin

http://personal.us.e...of curcumin.pdf

[rezin]

Subjects’ plasma samples were subsequently assayed to determine curcumin concentrations. The results clearly showed that BCM-95® was rapidly absorbed from the digestive system, allowing more of turmeric’s powerful disease-fighting chemicals to circulate throughout the bloodstream, while delivering the full punch of curcumin’s properties as never before. In fact, curcumin reached a peak within one hour in the bloodstreams of subjects who took BCM-95®. After a brief dip at about two hours’ post-dose, curcumin reached a second, still higher peak again at 4.5 hours, and then gradually declined. By eight hours’ post-dose, curcumin was still detectable in subjects’ blood.22

ABSORPTION OF SUPER BIO-CURCUMIN IN HUMANS COMPARED WITH CONVENTIONAL CURCUMIN22


Super Bio-Curcumin® (BCM-95®) showed 6.9 times greater bioavailability (absorption and sustainability over 8 hours) in humans compared with conventional curcumin (as measured by the area under the curve [AUC] in a plot of blood levels against time, that is, the total amount of curcumin absorbed by the body over 8 hours).
In contrast, ordinary standalone curcumin took two hours to reach peak concentration, and then rapidly declined. By 4.5 hours’ post-dose, when BCM-95® curcumin was just hitting its stride, curcumin from this control formulation had virtually disappeared from subjects’ bloodstreams. Even at its peak, this control curcumin formulation reached only about half the concentration of curcumin from BCM-95®. Likewise, the BCM-95® showed superior absorption compared with the plant-bound curcumin with piperine formula. Thus, BCM-95® not only delivers more curcumin to the bloodstream, sooner, but it sticks around nearly twice as long, too. This is an extremely important advantage, which should result in greatly enhanced benefits.

→ source (external link)

[to age or not to age]

My colleague and friend Vince Giuliano, author of the aging firewalls blog, has been preparing and consuming

liposomal formulations of curcumin, ashwagandha and boswellia. He told me within the last week that his

arthritis has disappeared.  Vince takes a number of other compounds I won't list out of respect for his privacy,

so he is not sure what is doing what. However, his doctor is floored at his blood work, which has the hallmarks

of a much younger individual.  Vince just turned 85. 

[Mr Serendipity]

That dream thing is interesting for 2 reasons.

 

1. A couple weeks back, I woke up from a dream of the intro to the original Sam and Max video game, realising something that never clicked before. When the woman goes "You're too nicer guy I guess, I think I'd rather go out with someone more unpredictable." I woke up with the realisation that the mad scientist she was dating was somone very unpredictable (he kidnaps her and ties her up after the 3rd date). It was weird because I hadn't play that game for over a year or two. Yet in a dream, over a year later at least, the penny dropped on that joke. But when I had played the game previously, I was totally oblivious to that joke.

 

So I'm wondering if I had taken a teaspoon of tumeric that day.

 

You can watch the bit I'm talking about here:

 

http://youtu.be/4yWnnk9fyJE?t=15s

 

2. I see any increase in the vividness of dreams, as a sign of an improvement of memory. This is just a theory of mine. But when I was trying to do a memory course which required a lot of visualization, I would notice the vividness of my dreams would increase. So in terms of memory techniques requiring a lot of visualization training. And this visualization training causing my dreams to become more vivid. I feel any substance that increases the vividness of dreams, is also helping increase your memory by increasing the clarity of your visualization, whether you are conciously aware of the visualizations or not.

 

Also I have 2 effects I notice from turmeric:

 

1. It helps fight candida overgrowth. These last 2-3 months I've developed thrust for the first time in my life (after 26 years as a male). And I can't seem to get rid of the damn thing. However I think turmeric really helps reduce it.

 

2. I would like all males to look out for this, or answer if this has affected them so far. But has turmeric started to turn you into a hairy beast? I've noticed increased body hair all over my body apart from my beard (the place I want it most). Then again my beard has started to slowley fill in more, but I don't know whether this is due to other supplements like ionic magnesium I've been taking consistently for the last few months. But the reason I can attribute bodyhair to turmeric, is because someone else once mentioned that a combination of turmeric and gotu kola increased their body hair tremendously. And when I previously took gotu kola, I did have body hair appearing everywhere (upper arms, upper back).

 

 

Edited by manny, 11 December 2014 - 12:11 PM.

[rezin]

To the guys having vivid dreams after ingesting turmeric. At what time of the day did you take it?

[Mr Serendipity]

I can't answer that, as I don't know whether turmeric has had an effect on my dreams vividness. I just wanted to explain my theory on dream vividness and memory; and also share my recent dream and it's unique revelation, which might have been due to turmeric. But the other guy (Gerrans) should be able to give you an answer, though he was taking tablespoons of the stuff, while I only take 1 teaspoon in the morning with half a teaspoon of black pepper.

 

However what he describes about his dreams, I feel I can relate to, though I can't think of any particular examples at the moment (except that sam and max example). But I feel the past few weeks my dreams have been different, in the way Gerrans described. In the sense that my dreams have been unusual and intriguing enough to leave an impression of wonder about them for the rest of the day; but I could only tell you why and what that dream was about on the day, because I've forgotten by the next day (and I have no intention to keeping a dream journal).

 

But because of Gerrans experience with turmeric and his dreams, I will be keeping a closer eye on my dreams. I will also be experimenting with 2-3 tablespoons of the stuff with pepper nearer to bed, to see if I can see an increased effect on my dreams.

 

I would also be interested to know what time Gerran takes his turmeric, does he split the dose or take it all at once, and does he experience these dream effects every night? 3 questions there I would love to know the answers to if you have the time.

 

Also I forgot to mention turmeric may be having an effect on my libido in a good/bad way. I feel turmeric may be making my mind obsessed with porn, so much so, that it distracts me from concentrating on my life goals. I read somewhere curcumin can act on the D2 receptor. But this obsession with porn is more OCD rather than high libido. In the sense that I don't feel more horny; just more addicted. Like my body is not in the hormonal mood for porn/sex, but my mind wants to watch it anyway.

 

The last effect I've seen. Is turmeric may be making me too mellow. Like before turmeric, I was on a high in life, achieving my goals, feeling like I could take on the world. But now I feel stuck in a rut, not motivated to do anything, loss of interest. However this could be attributed to having stopped drinking cocoa recently, which gave me motivation and confidence like nothing else. Then again, I wonder if turmeric made me stop drinking cocoa, as I don't have a desire to drink it anymore, or do anything. The thoughts are there, but the motivation is not. At the moment my kitchen is a mess, because I can't be assed to clean it. Though usually I'm quite good at keeping on top of tidying up.

 

Someone on this thread on the first page mentioned turmeric stopped his craving of tobacco (snus).

 

I find that it does lower libido for me, maybe it has something to do with serotonin (it's MAOI), but I also read somewhere that it may be connected with mTOR inhibition (kind of a double edge sword ...). It also lowers cravings for whatever, first month I started taking turmeric I just quit using snus spontaneously, I really didn't crave it ... but then this effects has somewhat disappeared or at least isn't as noticeable.

 

Whatever the case, I can't see turmeric benefiting my waking life currently, other than helping with candida/thrush. I have no energy/motivation to do anything productive.

 

Anyone else become less motivated on turmeric? Or do you think it might be coincidence.

 

Also another effect I just thought of which I've been experiencing recently. I'm finding it hard to make eye contact, or look at the face of strangers. Like my head is always turning away, even when buying food. Something I've never struggled before with previously. Increased anxiety?

Edited by manny, 11 December 2014 - 03:05 PM.

[Mr Serendipity]

I've taken 2 tablespoons of turmeric powder, and 1/2 teaspoon of black pepper at 4:20pm.

 

That was hard to drink, 2 tablespoons of tumeric in water, ack! Other than it being thick, the worst part is, some of it gets stuck in your throat afterwards.

 

Anyway lets see what happens. Probably nothing, but hopefully my dreams will be more vivid and interesting tonight.

 

I also took it because my candida/thrush was flaring up, because I had eatne a load of chocolate gold bars which are full of sugar. Hopefully 2 tablespoons of the stuff will help a lot.

 

[Gerrans]

I've taken 2 tablespoons of turmeric powder, and 1/2 teaspoon of black pepper at 4:20pm.

 

That was hard to drink, 2 tablespoons of tumeric in water, ack! Other than it being thick, the worst part is, some of it gets stuck in your throat afterwards.

 

Anyway lets see what happens. Probably nothing, but hopefully my dreams will be more vivid and interesting tonight.

 

I also took it because my candida/thrush was flaring up, because I had eatne a load of chocolate gold bars which are full of sugar. Hopefully 2 tablespoons of the stuff will help a lot.

 

I do not want to sound as if I am bigging up turmeric. There are too many accounts on here of people having this or that amazing effect, and I am usually on the sceptical side. And, to be frank, I do not really care whether I have memorable dreams or not. What I do care about is being healthy, which is why this dream thing interests me, because it speaks of an effect on the brain. It encourages me to believe some of the things I have read about turmeric and curcumin's potentially brain-healthy effects and not to be too put off by the "poor bioavailability" information. Turmeric has been a medicinal spice for centuries in many cultures, and that also inclines me to believe there must be something in it.

[Gerrans]

I would also be interested to know what time Gerran takes his turmeric, does he split the dose or take it all at once, and does he experience these dream effects every night? 3 questions there I would love to know the answers to if you have the time.

 

 

It has varied; but I was usually taking about a level table spoonful at breakfast, lunch, and tea (5pm), though I finally stepped it down to one a day, at breakfast. I do not think it needs more than about one tablespoon for me to have the dreams--though it might have taken a couple of days to get going.

 

I am not taking any from today, and so I will find out if anything changes over the next few days.

 

*

Last night I actually dreamed about this thread. And in the dream, I decided to post the sudden insight that the Italian word "insogno" (dream) and the Italian word "insegno" (I teach) were similar because they link the idea that dreams and learning are connected. Of course, when I woke up, I realised that is nonsense; but it is the sort of dream I am having. Not used to it at all.

 

Edited by Gerrans, 11 December 2014 - 06:03 PM.

[Gerrans]

 

To the guys having vivid dreams after ingesting turmeric. At what time of the day did you take it?

 

 

See above. I suspect it does not matter.

Edited by Gerrans, 11 December 2014 - 06:02 PM.

[StevesPetRat]

Dried turmeric powder, stored away from light and at 70°F, stays good for at least 1 year, with ~60% of curcuminoids remaining intact. The fresh root is probably slightly better/more intact, but the dried powder is much more convenient (only have to buy it 3-4x yearly, never rots, nor needs refrigeration), with little trade off in terms of purity/potency.

Thanks for the reply. (And also thanks cosmicstorm) I'm under the impression that aromatic turmerone is not a curcuminoid; do you have any idea of its stability? As an aromatic, I worry that it's not extremely stable. I've been making tea with the root (and added coconut oil to improve the solubility further, hopefully), but it would be nice not to have bright yellow fingers all day

[Kalliste]

Compared to vitamin B6 curcumin does nothing for me dreamwise. I take 250mg of B6 a few hours before sleep and that really works very consistently, Curcumin doesn't do anything at all. Fact is I think it makes my sleep worse if I eat it too late in the day.

[Mr Serendipity]

Anyone else who is taking turmeric; do you notice any of the following:

 

1. Decreased motivation.

 

2. Lack of cravings or desire for pleasurable things, smoking/tabacco, drinking, sex/masturbation.

 

3. Increased body hair.

 

4. Increased anxiety, hard to make eye contact with strangers.

[Gerrans]

Anyone else who is taking turmeric; do you notice any of the following:

 

1. Decreased motivation.

 

2. Lack of cravings or desire for pleasurable things, smoking/tabacco, drinking, sex/masturbation.

 

3. Increased body hair.

 

4. Increased anxiety, hard to make eye contact with strangers.

 

No. Except possibly decreased appetite.

 

I would not credit humble turmeric with this much power to influence me. But I am old enough that my character and behaviours are fairly set in such fundamental matters.