3 replies to this topic

[mallard612]

Hey Everyone,

I'm new here and looking for some help creating a daily and cycle/rotating stack. Let me first give you some background and what i'm looking to achieve. I would greatly appreciate the help and guidance.

My entire life I've been tired and never slept well. Regardless of how much/little sleep I get or the number of naps I take I'm exhausted or greatly fatigued. This is both mentally and physically exhausting. Growing up my doctor said it was "growing pains" and did nothing to help. However, 10 years ago I finally had a sleep study and I was diagnosed with narcolepsy and severe periodic limb movement disorder. I then went through an extensive drug "trial" to figure out the best combination of medications to try and make my life as "normal" as possible. I have tried Requip, Mirapex, Neupro, Ritalin, Adderal, Xanax, Konopin, Adderal, OTC sleep aids and everything in-between. Finally, the only combination that worked was a max dose of Xyrem and max dose of Provigil with max dosage of Ritalin.

So here is my problem, my body becomes tolerant of drugs extremely fast. Xyrem (GHB) is the only thing I can take that will knock me out but that isn't even a given. I've have to take over 6 - 7 grams to actually knock me out and get a good night sleep. Take a ton of provigil and ritalin during the day to keep me awake. However, even this isn't enough and my doctor began rotating me on a combination of drugs. Max dosages of Ambien, Xyrem, aren't enough and instead I have to trade off nights of ok sleep for a few nights of sound sleep by skipping or reducing dosages one night so I can take 2, 3 or 4 times the recommended dosages to sleep and staying awake. I actually took a sleep study while taking max dosages of Xyrem and max dosages of provigil. I was told I still could be classified as having narcolepsy based on the test After being on a combination of many many different scripts, my doctor finally said I needed to speak with a psychiatrist because my sleep issues were beyond his ability to manage. Pretty much saying my tolerance and sleep issues created a situation where it is just plain unmanageable. But also, he doesn't believe I have narcolepsy but instead some form of unmanageable insomnia.

This is where I need your help. I have been very interested in nootropics for a long time. When my mind is clear and focused, I'm on my game and everything is possible. But being in this state is very rare and why I started looking into nootropics. A few months ago, I finally took the dive and tried some pre-made nootropic pills. I took BrainStack and felt great but only the first time taking it. After that, I never felt the effects again (I would like to think it was more than placebo but I can't say it wasn't). I started stacking Epiq Noopept (25 mg with choline) with my BrainStack and Epiphany D1. I felt the effect initially and feel that it helped my daytime sleepiness but never felt laser focused. I increased dosages up to 100 mg's and nothing. Instead, I have dug deeper into nootropics and instead purchased the following to create my own stack for daytime and nighttime. I don't have the dosages set or am I committed to one product or another. Any direction is greatly appreciated.

Currently in possession or is on the way (no particular order) for my day and night time stacks:
- Noopept
- L-Tryptophan
- Animal ZMA
- 5 - HTP
- GABA
- Melatonin
- Vinpocetine
- Phenylpiracetam
- Phenibut
- Sunifiram
- PEA
- Centrophenoxine
- Adrafinil
- Oxiracetam
- Pramiracetam
- Aniracetam
- Piracetam

On the radar:
- Nefiracetam
- Colouracetam
- Unifiram
- All new and highly potent nootropics

So if you were building an ultimate stack and rotation schedule based on my background, what would it look like? Am I missing anything and what should I add? I have no problem being a guinea pig and trying new nootropics. I also have disposable income and willing to spend it. I'd like the stack/s to reduce my daytime sleepiness by getting a great night of sleep, wake up refreshed (never felt this before in my life), increase creativity, focus, energy, short and long term memory, as well as decrease my social anxiety. I don't have an addictive personality and have stopped taking any drug the moment I want to. So addiction isn't a concern (at least at this time) for me.

Let me know if there is anything I missed and thanks in advance

Thanks,

Matt
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Edited by mallard612, 18 April 2013 - 05:52 AM.

[JohnnyP]

I can only comment on a few of the things you listed so here goes lol. I've read that PhenylP is something that really should be used sparingly only for occasional use, Phenibut definitely needs to be cycled in some way as it can have some nasty side effects, PEA isn't good for much more than a quick 15 minute "high" , ZMA can help with your sleep but it isn't worth much else.Oxi will stimulate you slightly so I would opt to take it earlier rather than later. Ani has always had a nice calming effect on me so I usually use it later in the day after work and such.

[mallard612]

Thanks JohnnyP I plan on cycling everything just not sure what the cycle should look like.

I took my first 500 mg dose of PEA this morning and didn't feel much. I plan on trying each one separately to get a gauge on how I respond to it. My original plan was to recreate the supplements that had "some" effect on me and increasing dosages to maximize the benefits. My greatest challenge is finding multiple stacks that I can cycle through and still be effective.

Another reason why I took the deep dive into nootropics is because I started to see significant effects from long term high dosages of Ambien. I was taking Trazadone and Ambien (20 - 30 mg) a night and noticed my memory was failing me. I'm only 28 so I shouldn't be losing my memory so early. I did further research into Ambien and memory lost and found a lot of people who have taken Ambien for long periods of time were having memory problems. Many said that once they stopped their memory came back and I've noticed this as well. But there did seem to be some residual effects on my brain. I'm hoping to find a stack of nootropics to get me back to where I was and repair any damage done by long term high dosages of Ambien and other medications. In addition to helping me get a better night of sleep and maximizing my efficiency during the day.

[Multicultural Harmony]

Sounds like hell man, though your extensive list of substances wouldn't categorize you as a 'newbie', lol. Surviving GHB I can imagine is rather rough.

Maybe see if you can get a trial of pitolisant from a group buy for the daytime?

Rozerem may be worth a try too if you think your sleep issue is due to a fucked up circadian rhythm.

At one time my circadian rhythm was so fucked up that I was awake for almost 2 days straight then sleep for about 9 hours on a consistent basis. Now I sleep somewhat consistently every night thanks to agomelatine I no longer spend waking hours wishing the shit would end.However, I am not on any amphetamines or stimulants, nor was I when I had the major issue. My issue is that I always felt more awake towards the end of the day than I started in the morning and this effect would peak right before it was time for bed, so it was like everything was backwards. Now my energy/alertness levels are relatively stable and consistent throughout the day.

I think this is primarily due to agomelatine and nicotine usage. Perhaps a few other things I started to use, but I give most the credit to agomelatine. Nicotine helps keep my vigilance levels during the day very consistent too.

Some kind of timed self-dimming light might help initiate sleep too. Also early morning light therapy can help stabilize sleep cycles if that is your problem. Sleep is confusing. Antipsychotics may be worth inquiring your doctor about too, could be some underlying psychosis, mania or OCD that contributes. It is hard to know.

I don't really do 'stacks' of 'nootropics', makes me chuckle like the term 'adaptogen' does too. Drugs act on specific targets, often multiple specific targets. That is why they work. Nootropics are at the moment at least just another scam, they don't really target the right shit imo esp for insomnia/narcolepsy.

Melatonin and 5-htp are the only things worth bothering w/on your list. Maybe l-theanine, glycine or serine may hold limited placebo-like potential. I admit I am biased towards all things circadian like melatonin, however. I avoid substances w/destabilizing potential as a rule of thumb.

Edited by Pitolisant, 24 December 2013 - 07:02 PM.