75 replies to this topic

[caliban]

In 2013, LongeCity plans to set up a database that lists supplements, food additives, OTC medicines etc.

The resource will be in the hands of the LongeCity community to populate, maintain and quality control.

A small amount of money has been set aside to finance coding effort and perhaps incentivise a few initial entries to get the ball rolling.

Before we move ahead, we would are canvassing views from the community regarding any points to consider, suggestions, preferences, technical advice etc.
You can also register yourself below if you would like to get involved with helping start this initiative.


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[Logic]

Are talking about being able to type in a supp name and find out what its good for, dosage, side effects, etc.
and/or
Type in a malady and get a list supps and meds for it with dosage etc. again?
A kind of giant spreadsheet?

If so; this is a great idea! One I have been thinking about for a while.
Id be happy to help!

[Mind]

Here is a past discussion about this general idea.

Something similar here.

Someone else talking about creating a database.

[cuprous]

I think this is fundamentally a great idea. I frequently turn to this site to research a particular supplement and usually end up wading through countless discussions, some helpful, some not.

Realistically what more do we need than a wikimedia-style installation with perhaps some prepopulation of general categories by site admins? Once things get going it may be necessary to arbitrate disputes or lock topics for review but that shouldn't require special coding skills.

[renfr]

Great idea!
I agree with cuprous, using a wiki platform is the easiest way to set this up and it's practicable to use.

[DudleyMorton]

Love it!

[Q did it!]

Love the idea. How is it coming along?
We could structure it like a Wikipedia page. A central home page that defines nootropics and provides a list with most/main or all Nootropics with attached hyperlinks to names. The hyperlinks would take viewers to pages that discus the Noot and provide links to similar Noots, useful combinations, info/chemical pathways affected, effects, research papers/docs of and so on. Most of the information could be carried over from Wikipedia. If funds are a problem I would gladly donate some funds to get this ball rolling which is what it’s going to take. Is there a donation panel for this?

And would the database be added as a tab next to "Forums, Portal, Blog etc." at the top of longecity web page?

[Climactic]

carried over from Wikipedia.

Another attempt to replicate Wikipedia and take away some of its participation? No thanks. A supplements database, however, is a modest and probably a unique goal.

[Q did it!]

carried over from Wikipedia.

Another attempt to replicate Wikipedia and take away some of its participation? No thanks. A supplements database, however, is a modest and probably a unique goal.

Sounds fine but how and where do we start? I would love to help planning the layout of the database. If its ok I would like to go ahead and draft some ideas and post them/upload attachments. Probably will use PowerPoint and other formats to get the designs across. Just would really love to see this project get going and be a success

[BobMarin]

carried over from Wikipedia.

Another attempt to replicate Wikipedia and take away some of its participation? No thanks. A supplements database, however, is a modest and probably a unique goal.

I'm not really sure why you disagree with the proposition of a Wikipedia style layout because that is a design that people are accustomed to when searching for info about anything, which will make it easier for the user to access the info he needs.

And also Wikipedia is an opensource project so I'm pretty sure it will not take anything away from their participation especially if we make the info available on Wikipedia... that way longecity has a supplement database it deserves and wikipedia has all the info it needs.

carried over from Wikipedia.

Another attempt to replicate Wikipedia and take away some of its participation? No thanks. A supplements database, however, is a modest and probably a unique goal.

Sounds fine but how and where do we start? I would love to help planning the layout of the database. If its ok I would like to go ahead and draft some ideas and post them/upload attachments. Probably will use PowerPoint and other formats to get the designs across. Just would really love to see this project get going and be a success

If you need any help with PHP, HTML or MySQL I'm game to help. I'm not a pro but I know the basics and google is my friend

I'm a little bit busy but for a project like this I can always find time so don't hesitate to ask.

[Climactic]

I'm not really sure why you disagree with the proposition of a Wikipedia style layout

Oh, I have no objection to using the layout. The only objection is with duplicating the general Wikipedia content. Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikidata .

[BobMarin]

I'm not really sure why you disagree with the proposition of a Wikipedia style layout

Oh, I have no objection to using the layout. The only objection is with duplicating the general Wikipedia content. Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikidata .

I see what you meant now...

But i still don't understand one thing, if we would install a wiki platform and link it appropriately why would it be wrong to duplicate only some of the wikipedia content and then add a whole supplement database to it (I haven't found anything discussing that problem in the link you posted)

[Climactic]

But i still don't understand one thing, if we would install a wiki platform and link it appropriately why would it be wrong to duplicate only some of the wikipedia content and then add a whole supplement database to it (I haven't found anything discussing that problem in the link you posted)

Hello. All I am saying is that there is no point in trying to do what someone else is already doing better, i.e. there is no point in duplicating a categorical subset of an encyclopedia, or else you risk fragmenting both content and user effort. It's okay, however, to acquire and display textual Wikipedia content read-only. As for Wikidata, I linked to it only to display one way of collaboratively building and sharing semi-structured data; not everyone is familiar with it.

[Q did it!]

I think we should fallow the layout of Wikipedia it has been proven again and again to work. We need not just copy the info but take from it and expand. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam it has a lot of information but with the LongeCity database we would have studies listed, links to threads that discuss the nootropic, reviews, dosing schemes and top suppliers of and we could always include a link to the wiki page its self and much more. In order to get this done we need to know the limits LongeCity has for this project concerning: how extensive it can be, funding, how to inappropriate it into the site and we will need a team. For the team we will need programmers, designers and persons who can collect and organize the data into the database. This project will have to be released in stages and who (full members only, moderators?) will add new info and verified it after we launch the initial version? I say we have a new thread once (or just use this one) to request updates from members to the database.

The database will be similar to Wikipedia pages but they will be much more extensive (though not at first) in that they will focus more on the chemicals nootropic values.

So the main point is we need a team (Hopefully no bigger than 10, seeing this all has to be done online) and anyone can submit proposed addition or updates to a designated person(s) who sorts though request, has time to update the database and verify new data (essentially a moderator of the database)

Team Structure
3- Programmers
3- Designers (will also act as Database Moderators in the begging and vice versa for Database Moderators.)
3- Database Moderators Job would be to collect data and fill in the pages of the data base: studies listed, links to threads that discuss the nootropic, reviews, dosing schemes and top suppliers of and we could always include a link to the wiki page and whatever else we find that needs/should be included. This field would expand once the initial database is launched; so as to expand the data base rapidly and professionally. Once in full swing (meaning most of the known Nootropics have been added, referenced and verified) the amount could be lowered.
1- Longecity Moderator who will communicate with LongeCity with what we are doing considering progress and such.
That’s a team of ten.
If we are successful with this the information would be invaluable. Person could easily educate themselves with it, the database, meaning fewer of those annoying post inquiring about dosing and such about chems that have been gone over numerous times in other threads. And it would fast track many thing plus make it very easy for person new to nootropics to become familiar with and more likely to join LongeCity.

This is a very, very, rough sketch of what we could do and what the system could be capable of accomplishing but I think it’s a go. We just need to put together a team how can get this done. I will volunteer as a designer and can be an initial moderator for filling out the pages with info.

Do we have any other volunteers? And we need to know the limits and rules of what LongeCity (the Board) will let us do.

Cheers!

Edited by Q did it!, 29 April 2013 - 07:15 PM.

[Q did it!]

We could use http://www.mediawiki.../wiki/MediaWiki. It would seem to be the best option and all the code is there. https://en.wikipedia.../wiki/MediaWiki

Edit: I think it important that we make the database be a part or LongeCity and not some third party website. LongeCity already has traffic and most of the information that would go into it would come from here or Wikipedia anyway.

Edited by Q did it!, 29 April 2013 - 07:13 PM.

[BobMarin]

I think we should fallow the layout of Wikipedia it has been proven again and again to work. We need not just copy the info but take from it and expand. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracetam it has a lot of information but with the LongeCity database we would have studies listed, links to threads that discuss the nootropic, reviews, dosing schemes and top suppliers of and we could always include a link to the wiki page its self and much more. In order to get this done we need to know the limits LongeCity has for this project concerning: how extensive it can be, funding, how to inappropriate it into the site and we will need a team. For the team we will need programmers, designers and persons who can collect and organize the data into the database. This project will have to be released in stages and who (full members only, moderators?) will add new info and verified it after we launch the initial version? I say we have a new thread once (or just use this one) to request updates from members to the database.

The database will be similar to Wikipedia pages but they will be much more extensive (though not at first) in that they will focus more on the chemicals nootropic values.

So the main point is we need a team (Hopefully no bigger than 10, seeing this all has to be done online) and anyone can submit proposed addition or updates to a designated person(s) who sorts though request, has time to update the database and verify new data (essentially a moderator of the database)

Team Structure
3- Programmers
3- Designers (will also act as Database Moderators in the begging and vice versa for Database Moderators.)
3- Database Moderators Job would be to collect data and fill in the pages of the data base: studies listed, links to threads that discuss the nootropic, reviews, dosing schemes and top suppliers of and we could always include a link to the wiki page and whatever else we find that needs/should be included. This field would expand once the initial database is launched; so as to expand the data base rapidly and professionally. Once in full swing (meaning most of the known Nootropics have been added, referenced and verified) the amount could be lowered.
1- Longecity Moderator who will communicate with LongeCity with what we are doing considering progress and such.
That’s a team of ten.
If we are successful with this the information would be invaluable. Person could easily educate themselves with it, the database, meaning fewer of those annoying post inquiring about dosing and such about chems that have been gone over numerous times in other threads. And it would fast track many thing plus make it very easy for person new to nootropics to become familiar with and more likely to join LongeCity.

This is a very, very, rough sketch of what we could do and what the system could be capable of accomplishing but I think it’s a go. We just need to put together a team how can get this done. I will volunteer as a designer and can be an initial moderator for filling out the pages with info.

Do we have any other volunteers? And we need to know the limits and rules of what LongeCity (the Board) will let us do.

Cheers!

Good plan to start with...

As I said I'm game and I could provide some programming skills and could initially help with the filling of the database to start things off.

Edited by BobMarin, 29 April 2013 - 07:21 PM.

[Mind]

Please go ahead and post your proposed layout here Q Did It. Go for it!

Also, for reference, LongeCity did have a wiki at one point a few years ago, but hardly anyone contributed to it. So IPB (this forum) does have wiki-type integration capabilities. As mentioned earlier, we don't need to duplicate or fracture wiki efforts between our project and wikipedia, however, the wiki-style is something people are familiar with.

What will take the most work, IMO is to integrate our member discussions. There are some very good quotes, information, experience, and questions buried in these forums. One fellow in a previous discussion said he could write some automated text-scraping software too help identify and wiki-fy our best user content. Myabe that would help out

[BobMarin]

Please go ahead and post your proposed layout here Q Did It. Go for it!

Also, for reference, LongeCity did have a wiki at one point a few years ago, but hardly anyone contributed to it. So IPB (this forum) does have wiki-type integration capabilities. As mentioned earlier, we don't need to duplicate or fracture wiki efforts between our project and wikipedia, however, the wiki-style is something people are familiar with.

What will take the most work, IMO is to integrate our member discussions. There are some very good quotes, information, experience, and questions buried in these forums. One fellow in a previous discussion said he could write some automated text-scraping software too help identify and wiki-fy our best user content. Myabe that would help out

could you share the link to longecity wiki so we can take a look...

[GeneralKrang]

Hey Guys! I'm new here, but have lots of experience running interest-based forums. My recommendation would be to avoid wikis at all costs. People are going to stay in the forums, and while the wikis will get some initial traction - I forsee them being abandoned eventually and out of date. From what I've seen so far the community here is great - and any solution that takes off should use the community as a starting point.

I see that you guys are using IPB with pretty heavy usage of the tagging system. I need to look into the IPB code/license, but my proposal would be to build out the tagging system further. Use a set of specialized tags as supplements, and allow each 'supplement tag' to have it's own landing page with information. If you do this, each landing page should also point back to all threads tagged with the thread, creating a nice central hub for that supplement. Right now you can click on a tag, and the page is pretty barren.

The new tags could be specified either in a new input box, or with a specialized format like, "sup: piracetam" or "supplement: piracetam".

Basically I see this as something that can be built on top of what you already have, and can add functionality to over time.

[Q did it!]

Hey Guys! I'm new here, but have lots of experience running interest-based forums. My recommendation would be to avoid wikis at all costs. People are going to stay in the forums, and while the wikis will get some initial traction - I forsee them being abandoned eventually and out of date. From what I've seen so far the community here is great - and any solution that takes off should use the community as a starting point.

I see that you guys are using IPB with pretty heavy usage of the tagging system. I need to look into the IPB code/license, but my proposal would be to build out the tagging system further. Use a set of specialized tags as supplements, and allow each 'supplement tag' to have it's own landing page with information. If you do this, each landing page should also point back to all threads tagged with the thread, creating a nice central hub for that supplement. Right now you can click on a tag, and the page is pretty barren.

The new tags could be specified either in a new input box, or with a specialized format like, "sup: piracetam" or "supplement: piracetam".

Basically I see this as something that can be built on top of what you already have, and can add functionality to over time.

You may be correct. Setting up a wiki would take a tone of work and it could possibly fail just like the first LongeCity Wiki. Building out the currant tagging system further
is a great idea but how do we have the data gathered and where?

[Q did it!]

We should have some kind or archive or database of some kind. The question is the layout and what info to include should it be short and brief or extensive. It may be better say if each chem get a paragraph or two about it that covers dosages, mechanism or action, etc. The reason being is that most persons who will use it will be those who are new to nootropics and they are not going to rely solely on LongeCity for information but Wikipedia and such. So it stands to reason to make it simpler by just listing the basic info, at least at first, (this will also make it a lot easier to set up) and then some time in the future if need be expand it to something larger once/if nootropics ever become majorly popular. But it is still a good idea for us (LongeCity) to organize some of the data that has accumulated over the years.

Edit: Something like http://www.whatareno...nootropic-list/ would be a good idea it would just that the list would be far larger among a few other things. Of course we would have a home page discussing the database/archive and listing categories of nootropics: herbs, memory, sleep, mood, rules of etc... The setup What Are Nootropics have is nice in that is is organized and provides much data but does no fallow a wiki layout. It is more or less set up like you were looking at products to buy. Which is what we want right? We want to grow and expand the user base of nootropics. The concept that What Are Nootropics has going kind of sells the sup. Something along this line makes sense seeing its appealing presentation and overall functionality at what it does: educate and get more people into the world of nootropics. Also where there are sited sources we would also include a section for links/references to some of the good/main threads that discuss each nootropic.

Edited by Q did it!, 30 April 2013 - 04:58 AM.

[cuprous]

Use a set of specialized tags as supplements, and allow each 'supplement tag' to have it's own landing page with information. If you do this, each landing page should also point back to all threads tagged with the thread, creating a nice central hub for that supplement. Right now you can click on a tag, and the page is pretty barren.

What do you propose is at the "landing page with information"? We need to assemble and curate the vast amount of information that gets tossed about in the various forum topics. Yes, let's still link out to particularly interesting threads but for someone just getting started with the longevity thing the forums are chaotic and way too unstructured.

It may end up being the case that you are right and the forums die from disuse. But for me there are far too many times when I want to cite a particular research paper or the like but am too lazy to dig through notes or plow through pubmed. At the same time I know this same link has been posted at least a dozen times in various threads and would be highly likely to be present in a wiki article on the same compound.

I am truly blown away by the level of research that some people do on their own. It's staggering. We need this sort of compendium here. It will require a little bit of a commitment from us all but let's give it a shot. Our gift to the world.

[Q did it!]

After further review it looks like What Are Nootropics are pretty much doing what we are trying/aiming to do. They list Nootropics, stacks, suppliers, articles and more it’s just not as extensive as what we are aiming for. Who runs What Are Nootropics any way? We could look into an integration or something. I relay like the sight on its overall functionality of data presentation (plus they send out newsletters) but they just lacks a lot of data. Many nootropics are left out and so on.

Use a set of specialized tags as supplements, and allow each 'supplement tag' to have it's own landing page with information. If you do this, each landing page should also point back to all threads tagged with the thread, creating a nice central hub for that supplement. Right now you can click on a tag, and the page is pretty barren.

What do you propose is at the "landing page with information"? We need to assemble and curate the vast amount of information that gets tossed about in the various forum topics. Yes, let's still link out to particularly interesting threads but for someone just getting started with the longevity thing the forums are chaotic and way too unstructured.

It may end up being the case that you are right and the forums die from disuse. But for me there are far too many times when I want to cite a particular research paper or the like but am too lazy to dig through notes or plow through pubmed. At the same time I know this same link has been posted at least a dozen times in various threads and would be highly likely to be present in a wiki article on the same compound.

I am truly blown away by the level of research that some people do on their own. It's staggering. We need this sort of compendium here. It will require a little bit of a commitment from us all but let's give it a shot. Our gift to the world.

+1

[Mind]

I am not against combing efforts, however, my goal would be for this supplements database to be a feature of LongeCity. We want the traffic because we want more people to discover the anti-aging meme.

[BobMarin]

After further review it looks like What Are Nootropics are pretty much doing what we are trying/aiming to do. They list Nootropics, stacks, suppliers, articles and more it’s just not as extensive as what we are aiming for. Who runs What Are Nootropics any way? We could look into an integration or something. I relay like the sight on its overall functionality of data presentation (plus they send out newsletters) but they just lacks a lot of data. Many nootropics are left out and so on.

What Are Nootropics is probably a marketer page that is trying to collect e-mails from people interested in nootropics and them offer them a deal "they can't refuse". But of course I could be wrong.

So my opinion is that Longeciy should go solo...

[Mind]

Another thing that might be valuable in this database is some user data. I was thinking maybe we cold have some polls about the supps which ask "are you taking or have you ever taken substance X" coupled with "was it effective"(rated from 1 to 10). Just a thought.

[Q did it!]

After further review it looks like What Are Nootropics are pretty much doing what we are trying/aiming to do. They list Nootropics, stacks, suppliers, articles and more it’s just not as extensive as what we are aiming for. Who runs What Are Nootropics any way? We could look into an integration or something. I relay like the sight on its overall functionality of data presentation (plus they send out newsletters) but they just lacks a lot of data. Many nootropics are left out and so on.

What Are Nootropics is probably a marketer page that is trying to collect e-mails from people interested in nootropics and them offer them a deal "they can't refuse". But of course I could be wrong.

So my opinion is that Longeciy should go solo...

I find that What Are Nootropics accomplishes the job of getting people interested/stared in nootropics very well.

Check out how they list the Chems: It is very much like a list you would see on a website selling products. But in this case it is selling the idea and from their people go to suppliers to get the noots.
http://www.whatareno...nootropic-list/

Look at how they define Choline then list benefits discus it, list types of choline with links, side effects, uses, a FAQ section, and then go to list sources.
http://www.whatareno...c-list/choline/

So I am thinking that for the LongeCity database we should:

Have a Homepage- That discuses news and updates. On the page there would be a links to categories (leads to separate pages) for nootropics based on general effects of.

In Each Category would be set up similar to that of What Are Nootropics list of nootropics. Each item/noot in the category having a link to the noots full page of information and as always we would have links within to other noots. What Are Nootropics has already found what could be the best presentation/method of relaying nootropic information, why not mimic the success no reason to try and reinvent the wheel?

We will in no way just copy the site but just use the general layout of listing and describing nootropics. A plain wiki won’t work it just provides raw info and does not try to sell an idea and get us more traffic/members. But setting it up like a store layout (obviously we are not selling a product) for the listing of the nootropics is the best option in my mind. Persons can just scroll through a list (say a list of noots food for memory) and stop at a point of interest. It is important to realize that this database will be used primarily by persons new to nootropics and they will be much more exceptive of a setup similar to an online store/What Are Nootropics setup rather than just a wiki.

Also in the database it would be good to list stacks and general combinations of nootropics such as the CILTEP stack or Alpha GCP choline with piracetm.
I know that for now we are just going over what the databases layout should be. How info should be categorized and such but once this is decided on how it should be done how do we proceed to acutely starting the database and launch (not making the pages active just available to be programed and edited).

Defiantly a would be a good Idea

Another thing that might be valuable in this database is some user data. I was thinking maybe we cold have some polls about the supps which ask "are you taking or have you ever taken substance X" coupled with "was it effective"(rated from 1 to 10). Just a thought.

[Fred_CALICO]

Example of presentation:
http://www.wikiphyto...rincipes_actifs

http://www.wikiphyto...tes_médicinales

[Q did it!]

If it would help for me to upload concepts of the layout I can. I will be sure to stick with the LongeCity colur theme and feel.

[Q did it!]

Below is just a VERY BASIC idea of a database that does not fallow a wiki style. Made images in MP . Much info is left out for obvious reasons but I believe the basic concept is there. The images are not a final arrangement of any kind. I was many focused on how the pages were linked and data presented.

EDIT: A system similar to this one can be easily built off the currant system LongeCity is using.

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•  2.png   536.03KB   89 downloads
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Edited by Q did it!, 03 May 2013 - 02:21 AM.