75 replies to this topic

[BobMarin]

Below is just a VERY BASIC idea of a database that does not fallow a wiki style. Made images in MP . Much info is left out for obvious reasons but I believe the basic concept is there. The images are not a final arrangement of any kind. I was many focused on how the pages were linked and data presented.

EDIT: A system similar to this one can be easily built off the currant system LongeCity is using.

I am am going to make a couple of suggestions and you guys decide if they are worth taking into account.

1) Molecule structure should be to the left of the text
2) Text should be put inside a bracket along with the molecule structure
3) search engine for database should be placed on top of the page
4) More info section should be moved to the left of the categories tab

P.S. these suggestions concern the second pic Q posted (racetam subforum)

Attached Files

•  3.png   659.21KB   40 downloads

[BobMarin]

And as for the third picture (piracetam specific information) my suggestion would be that it should be written top to bottom(and not as bulky as you posted) because if we do this the way you posted in pic No.3 it could easily become very hard to read.

[Q did it!]

Below is just a VERY BASIC idea of a database that does not fallow a wiki style. Made images in MP . Much info is left out for obvious reasons but I believe the basic concept is there. The images are not a final arrangement of any kind. I was many focused on how the pages were linked and data presented.

EDIT: A system similar to this one can be easily built off the currant system LongeCity is using.

I am am going to make a couple of suggestions and you guys decide if they are worth taking into account.

1) Molecule structure should be to the left of the text
2) Text should be put inside a bracket along with the molecule structure
3) search engine for database should be placed on top of the page
4) More info section should be moved to the left of the categories tab

P.S. these suggestions concern the second pic Q posted (racetam subforum)

Fixed it. See below

And as for the third picture (piracetam specific information) my suggestion would be that it should be written top to bottom(and not as bulky as you posted) because if we do this the way you posted in pic No.3 it could easily become very hard to read.

Fore sure.

But we really need to have access to create the database. How do we proceed foreword with this project?

Attached Files

•  2.png   348.42KB   23 downloads

[BobMarin]

Below is just a VERY BASIC idea of a database that does not fallow a wiki style. Made images in MP . Much info is left out for obvious reasons but I believe the basic concept is there. The images are not a final arrangement of any kind. I was many focused on how the pages were linked and data presented.

EDIT: A system similar to this one can be easily built off the currant system LongeCity is using.

I am am going to make a couple of suggestions and you guys decide if they are worth taking into account.

1) Molecule structure should be to the left of the text
2) Text should be put inside a bracket along with the molecule structure
3) search engine for database should be placed on top of the page
4) More info section should be moved to the left of the categories tab

P.S. these suggestions concern the second pic Q posted (racetam subforum)

Fixed it. See below

And as for the third picture (piracetam specific information) my suggestion would be that it should be written top to bottom(and not as bulky as you posted) because if we do this the way you posted in pic No.3 it could easily become very hard to read.

Fore sure.

But we really need to have access to create the database. How do we proceed foreword with this project?

That should be resolved with either Caliban or Mind.

I'll send them a PM even though it would be better if they tell us what they think about it on this thread.

[Mind]

Great initiative everyone. We need for rwac and caliban to get caught up with the discussion and then they should be able to set-up secure access for you.

[Q did it!]

Well it looks like after years of people taking about it, it may indeed happen: LongeCity adding a Supplement DataBase

Its going to be a lot of work and we will need a dedicated team. I am out of class for the summer and fall, don't go back to class tell spring session, so I will have plenty of time to commit to this project.

[chocolatepancakes]

Check out examine.com

[BobMarin]

Check out examine.com

I had them bookmarked but never really checked them out for supplements, now that I have- WOW!

[chocolatepancakes]

yes it's cool, I also like googling the supplement followed by "webmd" to then view about scientifically verified uses and side effects

[caliban]

Thanks for all the suggestions so far.
We are still looking for more input, in particular what types of information you would like to see listed for each supplement.

[Q did it!]

Thanks for all the suggestions so far.
We are still looking for more input, in particular what types of information you would like to see listed for each supplement.

Information for supplements:
Name(s) of supplement/Overview
Summery
Benefits
Side Effects & Safety
Complete Summery With Extracts from Articles (This Would More or Less Represent the Information Found on Wikipedia)
Dosage
Articles
Popular Places to Purchases (Longecity Could Possible Make Money off Advertisement Here)
Links to Popular Threads Discussing the Compound

[lelf]

I can provide some programming/DB skills

[lelf]

Thanks for all the suggestions so far.
We are still looking for more input, in particular what types of information you would like to see listed for each supplement.

Information for supplements:
Name(s) of supplement/Overview
Summery
Benefits
Side Effects & Safety
Complete Summery With Extracts from Articles (This Would More or Less Represent the Information Found on Wikipedia)
Dosage
Articles
Popular Places to Purchases (Longecity Could Possible Make Money off Advertisement Here)
Links to Popular Threads Discussing the Compound

+ Trip reports
+ Cooool on-set / duration graph à la erowid.org (it's mostly about… different substances, but popular nootropics are there)

</joking>

+ Law status, if any. What FDA thinks about it

[Mind]

I would be looking for some sort-of unique data that can be gleaned from our forum. I suggested some polling data earlier, but it could be anything really. We have a very active community discussion about supps/noos and there are some very good points that have been made/experiments that have been tried, if there was something we could distill out of the forum posts, that would be a value-added feature above what other sites have done.

Edited by Mind, 19 May 2013 - 06:01 PM.

[MachineGhostX]

Check out examine.com

I second that. I vote Longecity buys out examine.com while it is still a hobbyist project instead of paying second-world coders to reinvent the wheel from scratch.

And I agree that Wikis are a waste of time.

What should be emphasized as content is not the same tired old information you can get anywhere else on the web, but the forum's unique empirical experience as well as copius amounts of extracts from the literature. It needs a foundation of evidence-based medicine as that is the Achille's heel of supplements in the naive/mainstream's eyes.

Edited by MachineGhostX, 19 May 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[BobMarin]

Check out examine.com

I second that. I vote Longecity buys out examine.com while it is still a hobbyist project instead of paying second-world coders to reinvent the wheel from scratch.

And I agree that Wikis are a waste of time.

What should be emphasized as content is not the same tired old information you can get anywhere else on the web, but the forum's unique empirical experience as well as copius amounts of extracts from the literature. It needs a foundation of evidence-based medicine as that is the Achille's heel of supplements in the naive/mainstream's eyes.

Is your view of the world really this narrow and shallow?

We should buy out examine.com!? What are we going to do a hostile takeover...first attack them with a series of DDoS attacks and then when the price drops make a low-ball offer, one they can't refuse?

You should really stop watching movies and go outside a little bit, join the real world...

P.S. I might have over-reacted but the second-world coders comment really annoyed me.

[Q did it!]

So where are we on this been dead quiet for the last few days.

[1kgcoffee]

Well it looks like after years of people taking about it, it may indeed happen: LongeCity adding a Supplement DataBase

Its going to be a lot of work and we will need a dedicated team. I am out of class for the summer and fall, don't go back to class tell spring session, so I will have plenty of time to commit to this project.

You're a brave soul for taking this on. Done right, this could turn into a very powerful resource.

It should be a relational database. I'd like to see supplements broken down into sortable categories by their ingredients and biological activity. For example olive leaf is a 'herbal' supplement rich 'apigenin' 'luteolin' 'oleuropein' 'hydroxytyrosol' etc. Each of those supplements or compounds (a compound is also a supplement) is classed (is it a herb, peptide, sterol, flavonoid etc) and associated to biological activity and pathways, with links to cited studies and articles. For example, because olive leaf contains luteolin, and luteolin is a PDE-inbitor, olive leaf would have that listed as a property. Because luteolin is in the flavonoid class of chemicals, olive leaf would also be listed as having a potential anti-glycation effect, as thats a property of flavonoids. Or if you select 'luteolin', you'd have a list of all it's properties and other supplements containing it. If you select PDE-inhibitor you'd instantly have a list of supplements and compounds with this biological activity. See the idea? The hydroxytyrosol in olive leaf activates pgc-1a. PGC-1a itself is classed as a protein that has a property of boosting T3 levels (proven activity of olive leaf not too long ago). You end up with the ability to map complex pathways and the supplements that influence those pathways. Thus, each supplement would have activity listed as either proven (directly linked) or probable (linked to compounds contained in the supplement). You don't have to worry about putting things like pgc in there yourself, but if you make it possible to populate the db with this sort of information, it will be hugely flexible in the future. An OCD sufferers dream. At first the db would be barebones, but as people add to it, it could become extroardinary complex and rich. I could see research scientists using this.

The backend would be a little tricky to program and populate, but the frontend would be nicely condensed and organized to something that people could make sense of. You've done a great job with your original mockup.

It should also be possible to sort supplements according to their closest relatives.

Trusted users (members) should be allowed to add entries with only mods allowed to delete and modify.

I will have time to add entries to this DB and to offer further suggestions, but too many cobwebs to help you program.

Edited by 1kgcoffee, 24 May 2013 - 03:35 AM.

[Q did it!]

Well it looks like after years of people taking about it, it may indeed happen: LongeCity adding a Supplement DataBase

Its going to be a lot of work and we will need a dedicated team. I am out of class for the summer and fall, don't go back to class tell spring session, so I will have plenty of time to commit to this project.

You're a brave soul for taking this on. Done right, this could turn into a very powerful resource.

It should be a relational database. I'd like to see supplements broken down into sortable categories by their ingredients and biological activity. For example olive leaf is a 'herbal' supplement rich 'apigenin' 'luteolin' 'oleuropein' 'hydroxytyrosol' etc. Each of those supplements or compounds (a compound is also a supplement) is classed (is it a herb, peptide, sterol, flavonoid etc) and associated to biological activity and pathways, with links to cited studies and articles. For example, because olive leaf contains luteolin, and luteolin is a PDE-inbitor, olive leaf would have that listed as a property. Because luteolin is in the flavonoid class of chemicals, olive leaf would also be listed as having a potential anti-glycation effect, as thats a property of flavonoids. Or if you select 'luteolin', you'd have a list of all it's properties and other supplements containing it. If you select PDE-inhibitor you'd instantly have a list of supplements and compounds with this biological activity. See the idea? The hydroxytyrosol in olive leaf activates pgc-1a. PGC-1a itself is classed as a protein that has a property of boosting T3 levels (proven activity of olive leaf not too long ago). You end up with the ability to map pathways and the substances that influence those pathways. Thus, each supplement would have activity listed as either proven (directly linked) or probable (linked to compounds contained in the supplement). You don't have to worry about putting things like pgc in there yourself, but if you make it possible to populate the db with this sort of information, it will be hugely flexible in the future. An OCD sufferers dream. At first the db would be barebones, but as people add to it, it could become extroardinary complex and rich. I could see research scientists using this.

The backend would be a little tricky to program and populate, but the frontend would be nicely condensed and organized to something that people could make sense of. You've done a great job with your original mockup.

It should also be possible to sort supplements according to their closest relatives.

Trusted users (members) should be allowed to add entries with only mods allowed to delete and modify.

I will have time to add entries to this DB and to offer further suggestions, but too many cobwebs to help you program.

Exilant ideas and well stated! I think it sounds like a plan a little more hashing out, consisting mostly of initial page(s) setup and entry methods to be outlined, and we should be ready to acutely start construction (Hopefully Fingers Crossed).

[Andey]

Check out examine.com

+1 to WOW ) thanks for headsup

[platypus]

A great idea. I think the database should cover both:

a) interactions between supplements, drugs and foodstuffs and
b) how supplements and foodstuffs block absorption of other supplements, i.e. what should not be taken with what, what needs to be taken on an empty stomach etc.

[pamojja]

Information for supplements:
Name(s) of supplement/Overview
Summery
Benefits
Side Effects & Safety
Complete Summery With Extracts from Articles (This Would More or Less Represent the Information Found on Wikipedia)
Dosage
Articles
Popular Places to Purchases (Longecity Could Possible Make Money off Advertisement Here)
Links to Popular Threads Discussing the Compound

Would really love a supplement wiki!

But comparing already pretty extensive commercial supplement databases (like Natural Standard) and the ongoing research and immense efforts needed for voluntary works (like at examine) to reach a similar 'standard' - makes me think this is still a very, very long way.

You're a brave soul for taking this on. Done right, this could turn into a very powerful resource.

It should be a relational database. I'd like to see supplements broken down into sortable categories by their ingredients and biological activity. For example olive leaf is a 'herbal' supplement rich 'apigenin' 'luteolin' 'oleuropein' 'hydroxytyrosol' etc. Each of those supplements or compounds (a compound is also a supplement) is classed (is it a herb, peptide, sterol, flavonoid etc) and associated to biological activity and pathways, with links to cited studies and articles. For example, because olive leaf contains luteolin, and luteolin is a PDE-inbitor, olive leaf would have that listed as a property. Because luteolin is in the flavonoid class of chemicals, olive leaf would also be listed as having a potential anti-glycation effect, as thats a property of flavonoids. Or if you select 'luteolin', you'd have a list of all it's properties and other supplements containing it. If you select PDE-inhibitor you'd instantly have a list of supplements and compounds with this biological activity. See the idea? The hydroxytyrosol in olive leaf activates pgc-1a. PGC-1a itself is classed as a protein that has a property of boosting T3 levels (proven activity of olive leaf not too long ago). You end up with the ability to map complex pathways and the supplements that influence those pathways. Thus, each supplement would have activity listed as either proven (directly linked) or probable (linked to compounds contained in the supplement). You don't have to worry about putting things like pgc in there yourself, but if you make it possible to populate the db with this sort of information, it will be hugely flexible in the future. An OCD sufferers dream. At first the db would be barebones, but as people add to it, it could become extroardinary complex and rich. I could see research scientists using this.

Love these ideas. The problem with the biggest existing relational database: the worldwide web, is the time wasted by searches landing on commercial sites or studies where only after reading one would know that it didn't really pertained.

Use a set of specialized tags as supplements, and allow each 'supplement tag' to have it's own landing page with information. If you do this, each landing page should also point back to all threads tagged with the thread, creating a nice central hub for that supplement. Right now you can click on a tag, and the page is pretty barren.

What do you propose is at the "landing page with information"? We need to assemble and curate the vast amount of information that gets tossed about in the various forum topics. Yes, let's still link out to particularly interesting threads but for someone just getting started with the longevity thing the forums are chaotic and way too unstructured.

It may end up being the case that you are right and the forums die from disuse. But for me there are far too many times when I want to cite a particular research paper or the like but am too lazy to dig through notes or plow through pubmed. At the same time I know this same link has been posted at least a dozen times in various threads and would be highly likely to be present in a wiki article on the same compound.

I am truly blown away by the level of research that some people do on their own. It's staggering. We need this sort of compendium here. It will require a little bit of a commitment from us all but let's give it a shot. Our gift to the world.

To have at least something started much easier and quicker to enhance: How about setting up a complete list of supplements and neutraceuticals leading to its own page each, with links about this particular ingredient information on all major and minor publicly available supplement knowledge databases
- AND -
a very elaborate rating system, ie. quality, completeness and last update of informations, number and rating of references, etc. which would automatically sort the link list accordingly. A random list of such existing resource:

http://lpi.oregonsta...ontentnuts.html
http://en.wikipedia....ed_in_herbalism
http://en.wikipedia....emicals_in_food
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/
http://www.mayoclini...n/DrugHerbIndex
http://www.the-natur...-Resources.html
http://www.webmd.com...ns-supplements/
http://reference.med...gs/nutritionals
http://www.drugs.com/npc/
http://www.mskcc.org...about-herbs#All
http://www.nlm.nih.g...o/herb_All.html
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/
http://www.healthsup...tamin-list.html
http://www.herbmed.o...p?sw_page=top20
http://www.healthy.n...ist.aspx?mtid=1
http://emediahealth.com/supplements/
http://nccam.nih.gov...bsataglance.htm
http://cms.herbalgram.org/expandedE/
http://www.whfoods.c...utrientstoc.php
http://www.benbest.c...t/nutrceut.html
http://mentatpsi.blo...ic-dosages.html
http://www.whatislif...m/intro102.html
http://www.savvypati...supplements.htm
http://www.dcnutrition.com/home.cfm
http://www.optimox.c...esearch_I.shtml
http://www.phytochem...tochemicals.php
http://pilladvised.com/herb-guide/
http://www.nutrition...ntsinteractions
etc, etc.....

Links to pertaining discussions would be rated/tagged equally, and short comments about content could be added.

Soon, just by newbees rating the quality of information of links and a few comments by more knowledgeables, a very efficient system for access to high quality supplement information could be provided.

[phil8462643]

love it! do it guys! thumbs up!

[nickdino]

at this point i'm so dizzy and agitated, i've been trying to compile a list of essential supplements to cover my bodies necessities in the most optimal form, for maybe 2 months now. Please get this project going! I'm tired of hunting for answers in these forums, it hasn't given me what i was looking for at all.

[thoward5000]

Any update or progress on this? Got a functional prototype maybe?

[Mind]

Nothing, but your question makes me think there might still be a desire to see it through, or something our community could add upon what other sites have done.

[nickdino]

absolutely there is, thats's would be the key feature of this website, the results. Here you have it folks, this works for this and this under these conditions. Thats what i most want.

[Charles J. Daniels]

It would be weird for longecity to not attempt such a resource. As you can see from all of the forum posts (many with educated posters and studies to back up their views) there is certainly interested man power available. And if it lags, it lags. A wiki that goes nowhere has no one else to blame.

[Mind]

It would be weird, but as you can see from this thread, it is tough to get something like this started, because it is tough for someone to do the rote work to get it off the ground, such as data entry and trolling to the forums for the best content.

We are just starting the process of setting a budget for the year, if we can assemble a team of LongeCity nootropic experts and coders, perhaps we can set aside a couple thousand to get it off the ground.

[Charles J. Daniels]

well you'll have to shoot me, but it seems this would be fairly simple. installed a wiki is pressing a couple buttons. then you might have a few decent templates, nothing too involved, they can always be added to later, but they might just contain a link of studies, (and the template need not even populate the section, just recommend one be involved), and the you can let the community fill in the pages. People are naturally inclined to get involved. So I don't see this as an issue requiring a budget, outside of hosting costs. Throw up a skeleton, then let the community add, comment, and monitor.