12 replies to this topic

[CentroPept_84]

Hello all, great Board!

That is my first time to use Nootropics


Why i need Nootropics?

- I want to removes the Lipofuscin in brain and body
- I have brainfog
- To repair the brain and cells
- To stimulate the creation of new Neurotransmitters


I have bought:

-Centrophenoxine
-Noopept


My questions are:

- Can i take both Centrophenoxine and Noopept together to removes Lipofuscin in brain and body?
Or disabled Noopept the Centrophenoxine effects for removes the Lipofuscin? Do Noopept removes Lipofuscin too?

- Need i a Choline source? I have read about CDP Choline and ALpha GPC, these are good and Choline Bitartrate is not good, is that right?

- And i want more motivated (i'm very unmotivated!), concentration (short/long-term memory) and more.

- Need i more Nootropics for the best effects? (Why i need Nootropics?)

- What is the best Nootropics to repair/stimulate the Acetylcholine-receptors?


Thank.

Edited by CentroPept_84, 23 April 2013 - 06:27 PM.

[BioFreak]

seems like centro does not remove lipofuscin, but other stuff that is the actual cause for aging spots. aging spots =! lipofuscin. :(

[daouda]

I think there's actually more evidence that centro removes or at least prevents liposfuscin deposits in the brain and cardiac muscle(a few mammals studies on this) than it removes aging spots (some anecdotal reports on a few forums)
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Lipofuscin
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6416880
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8821338
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8367013
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1512044 (centro removes lipofuscin from cardiac muscle?)
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/3083280 (centre does not remove LPFS from aged rh monkeys retina)

Edited by daouda, 24 April 2013 - 01:14 PM.

[CentroPept_84]

@daouda

thank you for the links, do you know what is the best dosage of Centrophenoxine?
Is 4500mg at day (1500mg morning, 1500mg afternoon, 1500mg evening) for 4 weeks enough?

[daouda]

AFAIK there is no set protocol but the recommended dosage on the insert for branded pharma centro (lucidril) says two 250mg pills per day.
4500mg sound an awfully high dose and you will probably suffer from insomina/irritability/anxiety/muscle tension (neck, jaw,shoulder)/depression/headaches

[8bitmore]

AFAIK there is no set protocol but the recommended dosage on the insert for branded pharma centro (lucidril) says two 250mg pills per day.
4500mg sound an awfully high dose and you will probably suffer from insomina/irritability/anxiety/muscle tension (neck, jaw,shoulder)/depression/headaches

Yes, totally agree here: where did that 4500mg-dose-a-day idea come from? Seriously; a simple googling of "Centrophenoxine dosage" would have set you straight, no need to litter this forum with obvious wrongness that then needs correction?!

[BioFreak]

I think there's actually more evidence that centro removes or at least prevents liposfuscin deposits in the brain and cardiac muscle(a few mammals studies on this) than it removes aging spots (some anecdotal reports on a few forums)
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Lipofuscin
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6416880
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8821338
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8367013
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/1512044 (centro removes lipofuscin from cardiac muscle?)
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/3083280 (centre does not remove LPFS from aged rh monkeys retina)

Several of your studies do not talk about centro in the abstract, did I miss something (including the one about cardiac muscle)?

All positive studies seem only be about rats.

The only study on something thats similar to us, a monkey, did show it did not remove lipofuscin in its retina. That means either it is selective in where it does work and where it does not, or, that it does work in the rat, but not in animals more similar to humans, which is not a good sign I guess.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love centro to work for removing lipofuscin in humans, but where is the evidence(in humans)? Even anecdotal evidence points only towards aging spots, and they do not seem to be made of lipofuscin. :(

Edited by BioFreak, 24 April 2013 - 02:56 PM.

[daouda]

meclophenoxate=centrophenoxine
There doesnt seem to be in vivo human studies on centro effects on lipofuscin but there are a few in vitro stuidies on human cells... here's one http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/6191765

Edited by daouda, 24 April 2013 - 03:03 PM.

[BioFreak]

yea I just found out too. duh!

Still just positive in rats, and negative in one monkey study. :(

Edited by BioFreak, 24 April 2013 - 03:03 PM.

[Sanguine_Rogue]

Just because studies regarding Centro and human usage in removing lipofuscin aren't prevalent doesn't mean that it will not work. Generally it always starts with rats, works it's way through chimpanzees and primates before ultimately human studies are considered safe. I've used centro on a few occasions and have considered making it a part permanently to my nootropic stack, however the primary reasons I would be doing this is due to it being an ester of DMAE which would allow it to be used as a form of choline source while also offering neuro-protective traits. Not to mention that it also helps increase the oxygen flow to the brain.

In the second study listed on the page (http://smartdrugsfor...centrophenoxine) it talks of how centro has been able to help people suffering from some form of cognitive deterioration which could possibly point towards the removal of lipofuscin.

[BioFreak]

Well there is a lot of stuff that works on rats and not on humans. And if it works on rats, but not on apes, this is not very convincing for me.

Hard to say with only looking at the abstract what the method of action for centro was in this study, but it showed to be inferior to "Antagonic-Stress". It could also point to serving as a choline source, which in turn can increase acetylcholine, which helps a bit in early stage Alzheimer. We don't know the numbers in this study to see what they say is statistically significant (this is often variable in studies, despite its definition in statistics), and how much better they got.

To summarize, the only anectodal evidence in humans that I found was for removing age spots which are not composed of lipofuscin but melanin. The only positive evidence for removing lipofuscin is in rats. There is no evidence of it in apes. There is one study in humans showing statistically significant improvement in brain functions, but we don't know how strong they were and why they got better. I want centro to be working for lipofuscin too, but this is how it looks right now.

[DorianGrey]

I started with Centro mainly because it's one of the few things that may work on lipofuscin reduction. I would confirm there is indeed a mild nootropic effect beyond placebo. Only downside is that I get a slight heartburn when I take Centrophenoxine in the morning after a light breakfast. What's your experience?

ps: Maybe I should try it with my 10AM stack, that includes fishoil and astragalus root (fibre). Doesn't make too much sense as a nootropic much later, half-life is 5-6h.

[Sanguine_Rogue]

I've never noticed any heart burn with Centro, however I have with DMAA when I first started using it (I was completely over doing the doses).

Edited by Sanguine_Rogue, 20 May 2013 - 11:24 PM.