4029 replies to this topic

[Izan]

what an amazing thread this is.

[lostfalco]

what an amazing thread this is.

Thanks man (on behalf of myself and the MANY contributers who are not named after wild-haired 80's pop icons)

[mait]

Hello! I have been using pregnenolone now for 3 monts 100mg per day 3 day a week- and the results have been good. My ability to read and write has been improved and I have been seeing gains while doing data analysis in R or while learning to program in python. At first I tried dosing 5 day a week in a row - at first it was effective but after 2 weeks I felt ran down. But 3 times a week dosing (Monday + Thursday and Friday) seems to be OK long term solution.

As a OT I wonder about the quality of this PQQ offering from eBay: http://www.ebay.com/...=item1c34214713 ??? Any experiences with this vendor from Thailand.

Edited by mait, 07 July 2013 - 10:48 AM.

[BLimitless]

Lostfalco have you thought about dosing a little coconut oil every day?

The MCTs are like the most divine thing for clearing brain fog. It's endless mental energy and clarity on tap, it's like what you'd hope to get if you somehow dosed 100g EPA+DHA oil and it worked with linear returns. Give it a go!


It takes away pretty much all noot induced fog. Then the remaining fog is either generally due to oxidative stress, vit deficiency or mineral depletion or improper breathing.


Dan Tien breathing should be a staple of any sane intelligent nootropic user's pursuits. Without 100% air exchange you are like... you ARE a faulty engine.

Simple experiment: lean forward and slouch in your place right now. The resultant compression on the airways and digestion => INSTANT brain fog. And this is like the worst brain fog ever! Lean back, open your chest. Shazzam it's like you dosed an entire nootropic stack in a split second!

Edited by BLimitless, 07 July 2013 - 01:38 PM.

[lostfalco]

Lostfalco have you thought about dosing a little coconut oil every day?

The MCTs are like the most divine thing for clearing brain fog. It's endless mental energy and clarity on tap, it's like what you'd hope to get if you somehow dosed 100g EPA+DHA oil and it worked with linear returns. Give it a go!


It takes away pretty much all noot induced fog. Then the remaining fog is either generally due to oxidative stress, vit deficiency or mineral depletion or improper breathing.


Dan Tien breathing should be a staple of any sane intelligent nootropic user's pursuits. Without 100% air exchange you are like... you ARE a faulty engine.

Simple experiment: lean forward and slouch in your place right now. The resultant compression on the airways and digestion => INSTANT brain fog. And this is like the worst brain fog ever! Lean back, open your chest. Shazzam it's like you dosed an entire nootropic stack in a split second!

What's up BL? Yeah, I've been drinking Bulletproof Coffee every day for over a year. It has grassfed butter and MCT oil in it.

I'm totally with you on meditation and breathing. I make sure that I set aside 20 minutes every day to just relax, focus on my breathing, and let my mind rest. I love it.

Edited by lostfalco, 07 July 2013 - 05:46 PM.

[h2o]

I would like to see how the effects of low level laser therapy compare to tDCS which I have done for over a few months now. So far I have stimulated the frontal and parietal lobes. Have you tried doing tDCS WITHOUT D-cycloserine? If so, how would you compare the two treatments in terms of mood enhancement, learning, and memory

[lostfalco]

Hey guys, I posted this over in the NSI-189 thread earlier and I thought I would copy it here for those who are new to photobiomodulation/lllt. Please forgive me for the obnoxious practice of quoting myself. I'm no authority worth quoting...it's just faster. =)

"Have you looked into transcranial low level laser therapy? A few of us have been trying this recently with very positive results and recent human studies have shown significant improvements in mood and cognition. I've been using a very overpriced laser and I'm currently testing ways to make it cheaper. I've purchased two devices from ebay and I'll report back once I've tested them. They may be worth a look for only $50. 808/810nm light and 830nm light seem to be the two best wavelengths although 808/810nm is the one that has been tested the most at the current time.

808/810nm
http://www.ebay.com/...=item3cbaee2b2b
http://www.laserland...00-1240-bl.html

830nm
http://www.ebay.com/...=item3cd004bdb3

My (expensive) Laser
http://vetrolaser.com/

Here are some studies to get you started. Low level laser therapy/photobiomodulation has been used very safely for over 40 years and has been shown to significantly enhance mitochondrial function, promote neurogenesis, and aid in the recovery of TBI patients (even years after the injury).

TBI pilot study
http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/21182447/

Mood Studies
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2796659/
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23200785

Recent (excellent) Summary
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23806754

More Studies
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23281261
http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0053454
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22807422
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3199299/
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3128319/

[mait]

Hey guys, I posted this over in the NSI-189 thread earlier and I thought I would copy it here for those who are new to photobiomodulation/lllt. Please forgive me for the obnoxious practice of quoting myself. I'm no authority worth quoting...it's just faster. =)

"Have you looked into transcranial low level laser therapy? A few of us have been trying this recently with very positive results and recent human studies have shown significant improvements in mood and cognition. I've been using a very overpriced laser and I'm currently testing ways to make it cheaper. I've purchased two devices from ebay and I'll report back once I've tested them. They may be worth a look for only $50. 808/810nm light and 830nm light seem to be the two best wavelengths although 808/810nm is the one that has been tested the most at the current time.

808/810nm
http://www.ebay.com/...=item3cbaee2b2b
http://www.laserland...00-1240-bl.html

830nm
http://www.ebay.com/...=item3cd004bdb3

//--//

Be careful. I ordered the exact 830nm laser you listed above and I received a laser with markings on it saying 300mW and 660nm. Seller promised to re-send new one but did not do fulfill its promise.

[lostfalco]

I would like to see how the effects of low level laser therapy compare to tDCS which I have done for over a few months now. So far I have stimulated the frontal and parietal lobes. Have you tried doing tDCS WITHOUT D-cycloserine? If so, how would you compare the two treatments in terms of mood enhancement, learning, and memory

That is an excellent question. For 3 years I only did tDCS without any other nootropics at all. I found an iontophoresis device on ebay for $50...this guy (I got lucky) http://www.phoresor....&products_id=55

I now have this device: http://www.scriphess...horesis-device/

The main difference in my opinion is that the laser seems to affect the whole brain whereas tDCS is more specific. The laser seems to improve overall brain metabolism and mitochondrial function whereas tDCS is for increased speed of skill acquisition. I have not combined the two simultaneously though I have thought about it a lot.

I have combined concentrated oxygen with the laser (it's a vasodilator) and it was awesome. Huge Nerd Alert: I have also combined the laser and concentrated oxygen while standing on the Bulletproof Vibration Plate (wearing goggles, of course!). My focus was surreal for hours afterward. My girlfriend mocked me mercilessly while I was doing it, then I stepped off, grabbed the book out her hand, and read an entire page mistake free at the pace of an auctioneer. She chuckled and said 'my turn!'. Victory for the nerds!

Hey guys, I posted this over in the NSI-189 thread earlier and I thought I would copy it here for those who are new to photobiomodulation/lllt. Please forgive me for the obnoxious practice of quoting myself. I'm no authority worth quoting...it's just faster. =)

"Have you looked into transcranial low level laser therapy? A few of us have been trying this recently with very positive results and recent human studies have shown significant improvements in mood and cognition. I've been using a very overpriced laser and I'm currently testing ways to make it cheaper. I've purchased two devices from ebay and I'll report back once I've tested them. They may be worth a look for only $50. 808/810nm light and 830nm light seem to be the two best wavelengths although 808/810nm is the one that has been tested the most at the current time.

808/810nm
http://www.ebay.com/...=item3cbaee2b2b
http://www.laserland...00-1240-bl.html

830nm
http://www.ebay.com/...=item3cd004bdb3

//--//

Be careful. I ordered the exact 830nm laser you listed above and I received a laser with markings on it saying 300mW and 660nm. Seller promised to re-send new one but did not do fulfill its promise.

Damn, that sucks. Have you tried a different laser since then? Did you try the 660nm?

Edited by lostfalco, 07 July 2013 - 07:39 PM.

[lostfalco]

Hello! I have been using pregnenolone now for 3 monts 100mg per day 3 day a week- and the results have been good. My ability to read and write has been improved and I have been seeing gains while doing data analysis in R or while learning to program in python. At first I tried dosing 5 day a week in a row - at first it was effective but after 2 weeks I felt ran down. But 3 times a week dosing (Monday + Thursday and Friday) seems to be OK long term solution.

As a OT I wonder about the quality of this PQQ offering from eBay: http://www.ebay.com/...=item1c34214713 ??? Any experiences with this vendor from Thailand.

That's really cool Mait. Thanks for reporting back. I'm still getting very good results from the pregnenolone as well.

I still think it's possible that there is some synergy with the laser here. Here's a quote from the pregnenolone wiki:
"Pregnenolone and its sulfate, like DHEA and its sulfate and progesterone, belong to the group of neurosteroids that are found in high concentrations in certain areas of the brain, and are synthesized there. Neurosteroids affect synaptic functioning, are neuroprotective, and enhance myelinization. Pregnenolone and its sulfate ester are under investigation for their potential to improve cognitive and memory functioning." http://en.wikipedia....ki/Pregnenolone

Yada recently asked about pregnenolone sulfate...has anyone found that?

I'm not sure about that PQQ from ebay. If it does work, then it's WAY cheaper than what I've been using since it also includes CoQ10 (200mg) as well. If you find high quality, inexpensive PQQ please let me know. I love the stuff so far.

[cyberger]

830nm [ebay laser]
http://www.ebay.com/...=item3cd004bdb3

Be careful. I ordered the exact 830nm laser you listed above and I received a laser with markings on it saying 300mW and 660nm. Seller promised to re-send new one but did not do fulfill its promise.

I ordered the 830nm/200mw ebay laser Peakplama bought (http://www.longecity...w-laser-module/), but it's contradictory power markings leave me with safety concerns. The sealed bag it came in said peak wavelength: 830nm / optical power: 350mw (350mw seems higher then Lostfalco uses). The markings on the laser sticker say wavelength is 635-660nm.

[Major Legend]

On the topic of nootropics as a whole ) - especially experimentation,now my issue isn't so much what works and what doesn't work

but rather how do I keep costs down to a certain level. I've had to forfeit vacation abroad this year just because of my expenses in this area (though I think the massive quality of life improvement I've experienced more than justify the costs) - still the amount of stuff you can add is basically neverending - when you factor in medicines, nootropics, supplements, food.

So i've begun experimenting with cutting a lot of stuff, I used to take expensive alcar for example, now I only have alpha gpc, and I limit myself to not having to take it daily. I've had to break down the cost of everything and work out the daily cost of everything. It turns out that I was just spending a lot of money on a lot of stuff that I didn't really matter when I cut them out.

That said the laser if it works seem cost effective over the long term, as it's a one time purchase. Not sure about the oxygen stuff, I guess it would be a worthwhile investment too.

Sorry not sure what I am adding to this conversation lol. I think the extra testosterone does have an weird of effect of reducing my verbal fluidity. Like my habit of wanting to participate in threads is there, but my mind just seems less "wordy". I feel kind of blunt and just want to beat someone with a brick or something...

Lately i've found it easier to make changes to my thinking, not sure if thats an effect or something that would have happened anyways, but for whatever reason i've found it easier to make small changes to my thinking, this has been really helpful as I think I had a generally unhealthy way of thinking that I had huge difficulty with changing.

[lostfalco]

On the topic of nootropics as a whole ) - especially experimentation,now my issue isn't so much what works and what doesn't work

but rather how do I keep costs down to a certain level. I've had to forfeit vacation abroad this year just because of my expenses in this area (though I think the massive quality of life improvement I've experienced more than justify the costs) - still the amount of stuff you can add is basically neverending - when you factor in medicines, nootropics, supplements, food.

So i've begun experimenting with cutting a lot of stuff, I used to take expensive alcar for example, now I only have alpha gpc, and I limit myself to not having to take it daily. I've had to break down the cost of everything and work out the daily cost of everything. It turns out that I was just spending a lot of money on a lot of stuff that I didn't really matter when I cut them out.

That said the laser if it works seem cost effective over the long term, as it's a one time purchase. Not sure about the oxygen stuff, I guess it would be a worthwhile investment too.

Sorry not sure what I am adding to this conversation lol. I think the extra testosterone does have an weird of effect of reducing my verbal fluidity. Like my habit of wanting to participate in threads is there, but my mind just seems less "wordy". I feel kind of blunt and just want to beat someone with a brick or something...

Lately i've found it easier to make changes to my thinking, not sure if thats an effect or something that would have happened anyways, but for whatever reason i've found it easier to make small changes to my thinking, this has been really helpful as I think I had a generally unhealthy way of thinking that I had huge difficulty with changing.

I agree ML. I'm totally for experimenting, finding what works, and then cutting back as much as possible. The goal is to take what works and only what works (and what is reasonably affordable).

Regarding the laser...I think that it's amazing and that, for a one time purchase of $25-$50, it would be an essential addition to anyone's regimen. $595 is a lot of money to pay for something that may not work (nothing works for everyone). The nice thing, though, is that one laser may last for years. I'll get back to you guys with test results for the ebay lasers as soon as I can (it might be a month or so).

[OpaqueMind]

Took 10mg PQQ today, along with 100mg CoQ10 and the laser treatment at the frontal and parietal lobes. This clarity of mind and thought is incredible. Thoughts rip through my mind like bullets, an environmental que brings immediately to mind a comparison, from which a relationship is abstracted and incorporated into an extrapolation or another thought, and so on. I've never felt this happen so fast, as if thoughts congeal already formed in my mind, the non-linearity and spontaneity of inspiration amplified several times. This is what I've been looking for.

It is highly frustrating that we are limited to language in order to communicate the true effects of nootropics. The quantification of a certain increase in memory, recollection, spatial reasoning and so on really does not allow for a proper communication of a state and therefore its benefits. We lack a proper vocabulary of the mind, internal mental states remain vague and subjective, so much so I guess a vocabulary would be pointless. Because of this, when one person raves about something it is seen as merely that - a raving - the raving of a loon stuck in his own private world using such inadequately nebulous symbols such as awesome, mind-blowing etc. All but the most articulate (old Isochroma posts come to mind) can communicate the power of such states, and even then only through layers and layers of metaphor. Does anyone have any ideas of how we could transcend this barrier? Perhaps to help determine some of the parameters which seem the most relevant to the subjective experience of the effect of nootropics on thought? But then we're stuck back in the trap of quantification. Hmmm. Maybe we'll just have to leave it to the poets among us to communicate their inner states to us. Sadly I don't know if there are any around here :(

Simply put, you guys need to fucking try this. And again, major props to LostFalco for his unending exploration, innovation and dedication to the furthering of mankind's collective mind. By the way how essential do you find the D-Ribose to this stack man?

[lostfalco]

Took 10mg PQQ today, along with 100mg CoQ10 and the laser treatment at the frontal and parietal lobes. This clarity of mind and thought is incredible. Thoughts rip through my mind like bullets, an environmental que brings immediately to mind a comparison, from which a relationship is abstracted and incorporated into an extrapolation or another thought, and so on. I've never felt this happen so fast, as if thoughts congeal already formed in my mind, the non-linearity and spontaneity of inspiration amplified several times. This is what I've been looking for.

It is highly frustrating that we are limited to language in order to communicate the true effects of nootropics. The quantification of a certain increase in memory, recollection, spatial reasoning and so on really does not allow for a proper communication of a state and therefore its benefits. We lack a proper vocabulary of the mind, internal mental states remain vague and subjective, so much so I guess a vocabulary would be pointless. Because of this, when one person raves about something it is seen as merely that - a raving - the raving of a loon stuck in his own private world using such inadequately nebulous symbols such as awesome, mind-blowing etc. All but the most articulate (old Isochroma posts come to mind) can communicate the power of such states, and even then only through layers and layers of metaphor. Does anyone have any ideas of how we could transcend this barrier? Perhaps to help determine some of the parameters which seem the most relevant to the subjective experience of the effect of nootropics on thought? But then we're stuck back in the trap of quantification. Hmmm. Maybe we'll just have to leave it to the poets among us to communicate their inner states to us. Sadly I don't know if there are any around here :(

Simply put, you guys need to fucking try this. And again, major props to LostFalco for his unending exploration, innovation and dedication to the furthering of mankind's collective mind. By the way how essential do you find the D-Ribose to this stack man?

Opaque! Dude, its freaking amazing isnt it? I was totally hoping you would try it since you have the Vetro as well. I think we are in true enhancement territory here. More mitochondria plus enhanced mitochondrial function. I'm thinking we should call it The Ultimate Laser Protocol or TULIP. What do you think? Abelard would be proud.

The Core: PQQ + CoQ10 + laser

I'll post more after work when I'm not on my phone.

[OpaqueMind]

It's the bees knees baby! I have yet to experience this beyond 10 hours or so, so I cannot yet corroborate whether or not this is true enhancement, but it sure feels like it I take it from that wording then that you've experienced a gradual increase in baseline cognition?

TULIP, love it man... sexy yet mysterious. I could make love to a tulip. Or perhaps she'll make love to me, and her gorgeous offspring will populate my neurons with bountiful fountains of energy! I really think you've stumbled upon something special here... looking forward to your update.

An interesting aside, I experienced very increased colour saturation after taking those mitochondrial catalysts this morning. I don't know whether or not these are typical effects, but if not then I theorize that because I laser-boosted the mitochondria in my occipital lobes (brain area that plays a major role in vision) a few days ago and because we have seen that the laser effect can last up to 2 weeks before it drops off fully, that there is some potent synergy here, some direct interaction of mechanism somehow.

[Major Legend]

It's the bees knees baby! I have yet to experience this beyond 10 hours or so, so I cannot yet corroborate whether or not this is true enhancement, but it sure feels like it I take it from that wording then that you've experienced a gradual increase in baseline cognition?

TULIP, love it man... sexy yet mysterious. I could make love to a tulip. Or perhaps she'll make love to me, and her gorgeous offspring will populate my neurons with bountiful fountains of energy! I really think you've stumbled upon something special here... looking forward to your update.

An interesting aside, I experienced very increased colour saturation after taking those mitochondrial catalysts this morning. I don't know whether or not these are typical effects, but if not then I theorize that because I laser-boosted the mitochondria in my occipital lobes (brain area that plays a major role in vision) a few days ago and because we have seen that the laser effect can last up to 2 weeks before it drops off fully, that there is some potent synergy here, some direct interaction of mechanism somehow.

fairly interesting...i'm not a big fan of pqq. Can you describe what tulip feels like? Is this just an energy boost or do you feel insanely smarter? Memory improvement? Creativity?

I am excited that we are moving into new territory here away from racetams, which is logical as racetams haven't been consistently useful for most people.

Edited by Major Legend, 08 July 2013 - 09:58 PM.

[OpaqueMind]

To the person who downvoted the post before my last... I don't mind at all, but I'm intrigued as to your reason why? A little constructive criticism would be helpful, maybe we could have a dialogue about your concerns.

[OpaqueMind]

@MajorLegend - It is difficult to describe as it's not so much a subjective shift in perception as when I put my mind to a task it just runs so much smoother, like all the separate functions of cognition are integrated more completely. Coherence of structure more readily displays itself to me. I wouldn't say I feel insanely smarter, although I did feel incredibly potentiated yesterday. Today the effect remains, except I can feel that my cognition is blunted slightly by sleep cut short last night. I often have this problem with nootropics. It's not that they cause insomnia, but since I already wake up frequently in the AM, when I do awaken, my mind revs into gear MUCH faster and I wake up with an almost manic intensity of thought. This subsides somewhat after waking, which makes me think it is caused by poor frontal lobe activation (it takes a while to boot up after waking) and the subsequent cognitive disinhibition - the unbarred perception of usually unconscious thought-forms. So I don't expect others to experience these problems. I think my unconscious is just a madhouse of neverending verbage gnashing at the fringes of my consciousness trying to get in. But anyway, these other parameters you ask me of I have yet to investigate. I'll have a jam on the acoustic later and get back to you on the creativity. As for memory, no quantification but I definitely feel I can hold onto ideas better, especially recent ones.

[lostfalco]

Sorry, Longecity wouldn't let me log on last night so I'll have to share 1st person experiences later. Here are a few directions I've been thinking about pursuing...in messy note form. The first thing is to make it very affordable and define a core. The previously mentioned $18 PQQ + CoQ10 supplement might be an option. As I mentioned previously, I'm testing much cheaper lasers right now. One of the $50 ebay lasers (that's total) just came in and looks good. It's 808nm and 200mW. I still need to buy a device to check the output so I'll have to get back to you guys on that. However, a one time $50 purchase plus $18 a month seems very reasonable for most people. What do you think Major Legend? I say we crowdsource the f$%# out this and find the highest quality, inexpensive routine that we can.

Ok, now for other directions to pursue. These are just thoughts to research and are not final by any means. I'm copying and pasting this from my notes so please forgive the messiness. Gotta head to work.


Add Mitochondra
1. PQQ (20mg) http://www.amazon.co...eywords=pqq lef

Optimize/Enhance Mitochondrial Energy
2. CoQ10 (300mg) http://www.amazon.co...words=coq10 lef
3. laser (808nm 200mw, 2days on, 1day off per 10-20 EEG site)
4. concentrated oxygen (70% oxygen, 3L/min; 3 minute 'sips' every 10-15 minutes, oxygenation tested with pulse oximeter http://www.walgreens...a8-0000734a440c )
5. glucose (3tsp)
6. D-ribose (5g/day) http://www.amazon.co...d-ribose jarrow

Optimize Clean Up? (This is my weakest area of understanding at the moment)
7. Oxeloacetate (100mg) http://www.bulletpro...-aging-formula/
8. Glutathione (1 pump every 3-4 hours) http://www.bulletpro...ed-glutathione/

Future Experimental Directions:
9. Creatine (I have some on the way and will add it this week)
10. EPO I may try a hypoxic tent http://www.hypoxico....g-systems.shtml , intranasal EPO http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23813967 , injectible EPO (anybody have Lance's phone number?), etc. EPO is not dangerous when used in doctor-monitored, reasonable amounts. If too much, then blood thickens, then death. If proper amount, then more red blood cells, then more oxygen, then more intelligence. It's illegal without a prescription. Hypoxic tent/room/mask is probably the better choice (just ask Michael Phelps http://www.hypoxico.com/ ), though expensive.
11. Resveretrol Spray http://www.prototype...p?ProductCode=R and Leucine (thanks to Joe Cohen for introducing me to this idea...btw, it's not necessary to use spray here)
12. Metformin http://www.antiaging...formin-metforal
13. Mitoquinone
14. Idebenone http://www.newstarno...s.com/index.php
15. Ursolic Acid Spray (50 sprays) http://www.prototype...?ProductCode=UR I'm very interested in this substance for it's antiinflammatory properties and it's purported ability to mobilize brown fat to burn white fat. I do have concerns about possilble temporary infertility in males and it's somewhat untested state. (see the Examine.com article below for more info)
16. NADH
17. IAS's ATP-Boost (combo of ALCAR, ALA, and ATP)
18. Methylene Blue (see the first low level laser therapy study for more info)

Special Acknowledgments:
Dr. Ward Dean: There is an excellent 4 paragraph discussion of mitochondrial optimization on page 17 of 'Aging Matters Magazine' (Issue 2, 2013) by 'Smart Drugs' author himself Dr. Ward Dean. Here are his recommendations: 1. Increase Number of Mitochondria: PQQ, 2. Increase Mitochondrial Energy Producing Intermediates: D-Ribose (5g/day), Creatine (5g/day), CoQ10SR (100mg/day), NADH, and IAS's ATP-Boost (combo of ALCAR, ALA, and ATP).
Dave Asprey: Introduced me to the idea of photobiomodulation/low level laser therapy in a podcast.
Con Stough and Andrew Scholey: Introduced me to the idea of concentrated oxygen and glucose as nootropics.

Studies/Sources (selected)
PQQ
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2804159/
http://www.fasebj.or...bstracts/540.21
http://en.wikipedia....inoline_quinone
http://www.lef.org/m...chondria_01.htm
http://examine.com/s...noline quinone/

http://www.altmedrev...ns/14/3/268.pdf

Ursolic Acid
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23707761
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21496491
http://www.sciencedi...006295207004339
http://www.sciencedi...889159111002066
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23690863
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Ursolic_acid
http://examine.com/s...cid/#summary8-2

Oxygen
http://www.amazon.co... stough scholey
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18569150
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17395994
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22285726
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17662686
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19429029
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20080151

Glucose
http://www.amazon.co... stough scholey

EPO
http://neuroscene.com/?p=234
http://miskowiak.dk/publications.html
http://www.amazon.co...uman capacities

Photobiomodulation/Low Level Laser Therapy
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23806754
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23200785
http://dspace.mit.ed...le/1721.1/58558
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19995444
http://www.prima-boo...en-Lectures.php

[BLimitless]

Took 10mg PQQ today, along with 100mg CoQ10 and the laser treatment at the frontal and parietal lobes. This clarity of mind and thought is incredible. Thoughts rip through my mind like bullets, an environmental que brings immediately to mind a comparison, from which a relationship is abstracted and incorporated into an extrapolation or another thought, and so on. I've never felt this happen so fast, as if thoughts congeal already formed in my mind, the non-linearity and spontaneity of inspiration amplified several times. This is what I've been looking for.

It is highly frustrating that we are limited to language in order to communicate the true effects of nootropics. The quantification of a certain increase in memory, recollection, spatial reasoning and so on really does not allow for a proper communication of a state and therefore its benefits. We lack a proper vocabulary of the mind, internal mental states remain vague and subjective, so much so I guess a vocabulary would be pointless. Because of this, when one person raves about something it is seen as merely that - a raving - the raving of a loon stuck in his own private world using such inadequately nebulous symbols such as awesome, mind-blowing etc. All but the most articulate (old Isochroma posts come to mind) can communicate the power of such states, and even then only through layers and layers of metaphor. Does anyone have any ideas of how we could transcend this barrier? Perhaps to help determine some of the parameters which seem the most relevant to the subjective experience of the effect of nootropics on thought? But then we're stuck back in the trap of quantification. Hmmm. Maybe we'll just have to leave it to the poets among us to communicate their inner states to us. Sadly I don't know if there are any around here :(

Simply put, you guys need to fucking try this. And again, major props to LostFalco for his unending exploration, innovation and dedication to the furthering of mankind's collective mind. By the way how essential do you find the D-Ribose to this stack man?

There is a barrier of understanding that renders this communication imperceptible to those who do not possess the necessary syntax (aka life lessons).


Consider the evolution and shaping of language. Primal man hits head on rock => URGH. That is percussion, hitting the neurons and creating synaptic connections. URGH = pain. Same way a baby learns to walk, talk, point. How without studying mathematics is a person able to develop the internal ontology necessary to comprehend complex equations? They cannot!


Likewise a person who does not learn the easy way must learn the hard way. When they learn, easy or hard, the ontology exists and what is said is taken as fact, without doubt. Because the internal sound of the brain containing the ontology finds it agreeable, there is no chaotic flow of neural impulses (cognitive dissonance). Do you know about Henry Markam's theory of intelligence?


At such a point all that can be done is point to that experience and let those will to hear, who matter. You will never transfer knowledge to the ignorant before they are ready. Tell someone the harsh truth before they are ready to accept it and suddenly "woah it's such a sunny day, look at that fish, I'm hungry, what's on TV?". The eyes conveniently turn aside.



But with regards to those who comprehend you do not need to use intricate words. It is simple enough to point to it using some words to imply hot/coldness. Using these words you find the point of equilibrium where the "temperature" of what you point to matches the temperature of your words. Synesthesia is very important in this effective form of communication and heavily implicated. This is a form of "telepathy" where words with far less the Shannon entropy of what is communicated, are used to communicate. This works because both brains contain the necessary larger ontology thus the words can behave as a small ontology ("the missing information") that connects the two; but both ontologies contain the reference object thus the communication is understood while the ignorant are entirely oblivious.


Do you like zen koans? Conversations between Zen masters are hilarious and a striking example of what is depicted herein. By the way that same high frequency thought-access is part of the Samadhi experience. In the latter it is sustained not by external utilities which may pass but rests on a solid foundation of lifestyle which permits this state to be cultivated 24/7.

Edited by BLimitless, 09 July 2013 - 01:03 PM.

[BLimitless]

Lostfalco, would you consider collating all your works and perhaps writing a book?

There is money in it for you... money in it for us :P

[OpaqueMind]

Likewise a person who does not learn the easy way must learn the hard way. When they learn, easy or hard, the ontology exists and what is said is taken as fact, without doubt. Because the internal sound of the brain containing the ontology finds it agreeable, there is no chaotic flow of neural impulses (cognitive dissonance). Do you know about Henry Markam's theory of intelligence?

I don't know it, but I am interested in this area of understanding... do you have any resources that discuss it?

At such a point all that can be done is point to that experience and let those will to hear, who matter. You will never transfer knowledge to the ignorant before they are ready. Tell someone the harsh truth before they are ready to accept it and suddenly "woah it's such a sunny day, look at that fish, I'm hungry, what's on TV?". The eyes conveniently turn aside.

I have noticed this when discussing meta-features of reality with certain individuals, ideas which they cannot incorporate either because of incompatibility through not having the thought structures to build them upon (lack of knowledge) or a contradiction with their established frameworks (maintenance of the ego falsely associated with the content of mind). It's hard to tell whether it's generally a conscious or an unconscious rejection. The aversion to contemplation seems so reflexive and unconscious in some cases.

But with regards to those who comprehend you do not need to use intricate words. It is simple enough to point to it using some words to imply hot/coldness. Using these words you find the point of equilibrium where the "temperature" of what you point to matches the temperature of your words. Synesthesia is very important in this effective form of communication and heavily implicated. This is a form of "telepathy" where words with far less the Shannon entropy of what is communicated, are used to communicate. This works because both brains contain the necessary larger ontology thus the words can behave as a small ontology ("the missing information") that connects the two; but both ontologies contain the reference object thus the communication is understood while the ignorant are entirely oblivious.

This is a very interesting idea. So do you think in this way, two beings who had experienced the ineffable could have a conversation about it? Also do you know of any resources relating to Shannon entropy? This seems like a very interesting and versatile concept.

Do you like zen koans? Conversations between Zen masters are hilarious and a striking example of what is depicted herein. By the way that same high frequency thought-access is part of the Samadhi experience. In the latter it is sustained not by external utilities which may pass but rests on a solid foundation of lifestyle which permits this state to be cultivated 24/7.

Koans are awesome. I don't how they work but when I meditate on the koan Mu or the question of 'Who Am I' it feels like my mind is being deconditioned and my sense of self is systematically deconstructed. Weird, freaky, awesome stuff.

[lostfalco]

By the way how essential do you find the D-Ribose to this stack man?

I would say that the D-ribose is nonessential for right now. The main effects seem to come from the core mentioned earlier. I already had some so I figured I would throw it in based on Dr. Dean's recommendations. I wouldn't say it's worthless, just nonessential.

[lostfalco]

It's the bees knees baby! I have yet to experience this beyond 10 hours or so, so I cannot yet corroborate whether or not this is true enhancement, but it sure feels like it :) I take it from that wording then that you've experienced a gradual increase in baseline cognition?

TULIP, love it man... sexy yet mysterious. I could make love to a tulip. Or perhaps she'll make love to me, and her gorgeous offspring will populate my neurons with bountiful fountains of energy! I really think you've stumbled upon something special here... looking forward to your update.

An interesting aside, I experienced very increased colour saturation after taking those mitochondrial catalysts this morning. I don't know whether or not these are typical effects, but if not then I theorize that because I laser-boosted the mitochondria in my occipital lobes (brain area that plays a major role in vision) a few days ago and because we have seen that the laser effect can last up to 2 weeks before it drops off fully, that there is some potent synergy here, some direct interaction of mechanism somehow.

fairly interesting...i'm not a big fan of pqq. Can you describe what tulip feels like? Is this just an energy boost or do you feel insanely smarter? Memory improvement? Creativity?

I am excited that we are moving into new territory here away from racetams, which is logical as racetams haven't been consistently useful for most people.

The number one thing is speed. My thoughts are just lightning fast...way faster than they've ever been. The most interesting thing about it to me is that it's that way all the time. It's not like I dose in the morning and then slow down four hours later. This is part of what I mean when I say I feel changed. This just seems to be how I am now. It makes sense given the proposed effects of PQQ and photobiomodulation. I just have to make sure I get enough calories.

The second thing is endurance. I just don't get mentally tired during the day. Even if my body gets tired, my brain is still going.

The third thing I've noticed is actually related to the speed factor...sociability. Conversations are moving in slow motion for me now. I'm just ahead of the people I'm talking too. You know that feeling when the other person is talking and you are desperately searching your thoughts for what to say next? I just don't have that right now. I feel three steps ahead with multiple options at every step as to where I want to take the conversation. I made a very cute, fit doctor (she's probably 28) laugh so hard a few days ago that she pretty much started crying. She asked if I wanted to see her new car and go for a drive and I had to tell her I had a girlfriend (awkward). She said to call her if I was ever single. I've spent a number of years working on social skills, but this was just effortless. Regardless, my goal is not to sleep with a hundred people, it's to help a hundred patients.

Finally, I would say that creativity and access to memories has been enhanced (these are kind of related due to the fact that creativity is often an unusual pairing of past remembrances). Yesterday, I parked in front of a building that I had only been to once or twice years ago. As soon as I turned the car off a memory came to me of a song that debuted on the radio the last time I was there. I laughed to myself and said out loud, "No way." I remembered that it was a rock song by the band Seether and the the first vocal note of the chorus was an E note. When I got home last night I checked iTunes and that song debuted in 2007, six years ago!...and the chorus note actually was an E (I checked using my guitar tuner).

Of course, these are all purely subjective and liable to all sorts of human error. Please view them as such. =)

I really look forward to improving my self testing methods when I have more time. Anecdotes are all I've got right now, but subjectively I've never felt better.

This brings me to my last point. I don't see any reason why this wouldn't stack amazingly well many of the traditional nootropics. Does anyone see any possible problems combining this with CILTEP? Anybody want to try it and report back?

[lostfalco]

Did anyone see the article on sensory substitution on kurzweilai.net today? It's called "How to See with Your Ears" and they used pretty much the exact program I used to stagger around my apartment one weekend. It's actually kinda cool even though it sounds like you're getting attacked by an alien. You guys should try it. Sensory substitution is one of the strangest and most fascinating discoveries that I've ever come across. Bach-y-Rita was ahead of his time.

http://www.kurzweila...-with-your-ears

[Major Legend]

It's the bees knees baby! I have yet to experience this beyond 10 hours or so, so I cannot yet corroborate whether or not this is true enhancement, but it sure feels like it I take it from that wording then that you've experienced a gradual increase in baseline cognition?

TULIP, love it man... sexy yet mysterious. I could make love to a tulip. Or perhaps she'll make love to me, and her gorgeous offspring will populate my neurons with bountiful fountains of energy! I really think you've stumbled upon something special here... looking forward to your update.

An interesting aside, I experienced very increased colour saturation after taking those mitochondrial catalysts this morning. I don't know whether or not these are typical effects, but if not then I theorize that because I laser-boosted the mitochondria in my occipital lobes (brain area that plays a major role in vision) a few days ago and because we have seen that the laser effect can last up to 2 weeks before it drops off fully, that there is some potent synergy here, some direct interaction of mechanism somehow.

fairly interesting...i'm not a big fan of pqq. Can you describe what tulip feels like? Is this just an energy boost or do you feel insanely smarter? Memory improvement? Creativity?

I am excited that we are moving into new territory here away from racetams, which is logical as racetams haven't been consistently useful for most people.

The number one thing is speed. My thoughts are just lightning fast...way faster than they've ever been. The most interesting thing about it to me is that it's that way all the time. It's not like I dose in the morning and then slow down four hours later. This is part of what I mean when I say I feel changed. This just seems to be how I am now. It makes sense given the proposed effects of PQQ and photobiomodulation. I just have to make sure I get enough calories.

The second thing is endurance. I just don't get mentally tired during the day. Even if my body gets tired, my brain is still going.

The third thing I've noticed is actually related to the speed factor...sociability. Conversations are moving in slow motion for me now. I'm just ahead of the people I'm talking too. You know that feeling when the other person is talking and you are desperately searching your thoughts for what to say next? I just don't have that right now. I feel three steps ahead with multiple options at every step as to where I want to take the conversation. I made a very cute, fit doctor (she's probably 28) laugh so hard a few days ago that she pretty much started crying. She asked if I wanted to see her new car and go for a drive and I had to tell her I had a girlfriend (awkward). She said to call her if I was ever single. I've spent a number of years working on social skills, but this was just effortless. Regardless, my goal is not to sleep with a hundred people, it's to help a hundred patients.

Finally, I would say that creativity and access to memories has been enhanced (these are kind of related due to the fact that creativity is often an unusual pairing of past remembrances). Yesterday, I parked in front of a building that I had only been to once or twice years ago. As soon as I turned the car off a memory came to me of a song that debuted on the radio the last time I was there. I laughed to myself and said out loud, "No way." I remembered that it was a rock song by the band Seether and the the first vocal note of the chorus was an E note. When I got home last night I checked iTunes and that song debuted in 2007, six years ago!...and the chorus note actually was an E (I checked using my guitar tuner).

Of course, these are all purely subjective and liable to all sorts of human error. Please view them as such. =)

I really look forward to improving my self testing methods when I have more time. Anecdotes are all I've got right now, but subjectively I've never felt better.

This brings me to my last point. I don't see any reason why this wouldn't stack amazingly well many of the traditional nootropics. Does anyone see any possible problems combining this with CILTEP? Anybody want to try it and report back?

Thats amazing, and thats just oxygen plus laser? ( are you taking Q10 and PQQ) or are you constantly testing out different things? Makes me think my test stack feel a bit redundant, though i'm still deriving great benefits from it.

[lostfalco]

It's the bees knees baby! I have yet to experience this beyond 10 hours or so, so I cannot yet corroborate whether or not this is true enhancement, but it sure feels like it :) I take it from that wording then that you've experienced a gradual increase in baseline cognition?

TULIP, love it man... sexy yet mysterious. I could make love to a tulip. Or perhaps she'll make love to me, and her gorgeous offspring will populate my neurons with bountiful fountains of energy! I really think you've stumbled upon something special here... looking forward to your update.

An interesting aside, I experienced very increased colour saturation after taking those mitochondrial catalysts this morning. I don't know whether or not these are typical effects, but if not then I theorize that because I laser-boosted the mitochondria in my occipital lobes (brain area that plays a major role in vision) a few days ago and because we have seen that the laser effect can last up to 2 weeks before it drops off fully, that there is some potent synergy here, some direct interaction of mechanism somehow.

fairly interesting...i'm not a big fan of pqq. Can you describe what tulip feels like? Is this just an energy boost or do you feel insanely smarter? Memory improvement? Creativity?

I am excited that we are moving into new territory here away from racetams, which is logical as racetams haven't been consistently useful for most people.

The number one thing is speed. My thoughts are just lightning fast...way faster than they've ever been. The most interesting thing about it to me is that it's that way all the time. It's not like I dose in the morning and then slow down four hours later. This is part of what I mean when I say I feel changed. This just seems to be how I am now. It makes sense given the proposed effects of PQQ and photobiomodulation. I just have to make sure I get enough calories.

The second thing is endurance. I just don't get mentally tired during the day. Even if my body gets tired, my brain is still going.

The third thing I've noticed is actually related to the speed factor...sociability. Conversations are moving in slow motion for me now. I'm just ahead of the people I'm talking too. You know that feeling when the other person is talking and you are desperately searching your thoughts for what to say next? I just don't have that right now. I feel three steps ahead with multiple options at every step as to where I want to take the conversation. I made a very cute, fit doctor (she's probably 28) laugh so hard a few days ago that she pretty much started crying. She asked if I wanted to see her new car and go for a drive and I had to tell her I had a girlfriend (awkward). She said to call her if I was ever single. I've spent a number of years working on social skills, but this was just effortless. Regardless, my goal is not to sleep with a hundred people, it's to help a hundred patients.

Finally, I would say that creativity and access to memories has been enhanced (these are kind of related due to the fact that creativity is often an unusual pairing of past remembrances). Yesterday, I parked in front of a building that I had only been to once or twice years ago. As soon as I turned the car off a memory came to me of a song that debuted on the radio the last time I was there. I laughed to myself and said out loud, "No way." I remembered that it was a rock song by the band Seether and the the first vocal note of the chorus was an E note. When I got home last night I checked iTunes and that song debuted in 2007, six years ago!...and the chorus note actually was an E (I checked using my guitar tuner).

Of course, these are all purely subjective and liable to all sorts of human error. Please view them as such. =)

I really look forward to improving my self testing methods when I have more time. Anecdotes are all I've got right now, but subjectively I've never felt better.

This brings me to my last point. I don't see any reason why this wouldn't stack amazingly well many of the traditional nootropics. Does anyone see any possible problems combining this with CILTEP? Anybody want to try it and report back?

Thats amazing, and thats just oxygen plus laser? ( are you taking Q10 and PQQ) or are you constantly testing out different things? Makes me think my test stack feel a bit redundant, though i'm still deriving great benefits from it.

The main elements are PQQ (20mg) + CoQ10 (300mg) + laser. I'm sure that individual dosing will vary. I just followed the main study.

Some confounding factors that are important to reiterate are modafinil, pregnenolone, and BP Coffee. They are all in my daily routine and have been for some time now.

Edited by lostfalco, 10 July 2013 - 07:52 AM.

[lostfalco]

It's the bees knees baby! I have yet to experience this beyond 10 hours or so, so I cannot yet corroborate whether or not this is true enhancement, but it sure feels like it :) I take it from that wording then that you've experienced a gradual increase in baseline cognition?

TULIP, love it man... sexy yet mysterious. I could make love to a tulip. Or perhaps she'll make love to me, and her gorgeous offspring will populate my neurons with bountiful fountains of energy! I really think you've stumbled upon something special here... looking forward to your update.

An interesting aside, I experienced very increased colour saturation after taking those mitochondrial catalysts this morning. I don't know whether or not these are typical effects, but if not then I theorize that because I laser-boosted the mitochondria in my occipital lobes (brain area that plays a major role in vision) a few days ago and because we have seen that the laser effect can last up to 2 weeks before it drops off fully, that there is some potent synergy here, some direct interaction of mechanism somehow.

fairly interesting...i'm not a big fan of pqq. Can you describe what tulip feels like? Is this just an energy boost or do you feel insanely smarter? Memory improvement? Creativity?

I am excited that we are moving into new territory here away from racetams, which is logical as racetams haven't been consistently useful for most people.

The number one thing is speed. My thoughts are just lightning fast...way faster than they've ever been. The most interesting thing about it to me is that it's that way all the time. It's not like I dose in the morning and then slow down four hours later. This is part of what I mean when I say I feel changed. This just seems to be how I am now. It makes sense given the proposed effects of PQQ and photobiomodulation. I just have to make sure I get enough calories.

The second thing is endurance. I just don't get mentally tired during the day. Even if my body gets tired, my brain is still going.

The third thing I've noticed is actually related to the speed factor...sociability. Conversations are moving in slow motion for me now. I'm just ahead of the people I'm talking too. You know that feeling when the other person is talking and you are desperately searching your thoughts for what to say next? I just don't have that right now. I feel three steps ahead with multiple options at every step as to where I want to take the conversation. I made a very cute, fit doctor (she's probably 28) laugh so hard a few days ago that she pretty much started crying. She asked if I wanted to see her new car and go for a drive and I had to tell her I had a girlfriend (awkward). She said to call her if I was ever single. I've spent a number of years working on social skills, but this was just effortless. Regardless, my goal is not to sleep with a hundred people, it's to help a hundred patients.

Finally, I would say that creativity and access to memories has been enhanced (these are kind of related due to the fact that creativity is often an unusual pairing of past remembrances). Yesterday, I parked in front of a building that I had only been to once or twice years ago. As soon as I turned the car off a memory came to me of a song that debuted on the radio the last time I was there. I laughed to myself and said out loud, "No way." I remembered that it was a rock song by the band Seether and the the first vocal note of the chorus was an E note. When I got home last night I checked iTunes and that song debuted in 2007, six years ago!...and the chorus note actually was an E (I checked using my guitar tuner).

Of course, these are all purely subjective and liable to all sorts of human error. Please view them as such. =)

I really look forward to improving my self testing methods when I have more time. Anecdotes are all I've got right now, but subjectively I've never felt better.

This brings me to my last point. I don't see any reason why this wouldn't stack amazingly well many of the traditional nootropics. Does anyone see any possible problems combining this with CILTEP? Anybody want to try it and report back?

Thats amazing, and thats just oxygen plus laser? ( are you taking Q10 and PQQ) or are you constantly testing out different things? Makes me think my test stack feel a bit redundant, though i'm still deriving great benefits from it.

btw, If the testosterone stack is still working great for you I wouldn't change it. I think that TULIP should be thought of as an addition to someone with healthy hormone levels, not as a replacement.

[Major Legend]

In response to your earlier post - yes I've been interested in jumping out and going into business for a while. One of my ideas is a company/institution focused on human enhancement and preventative care. I'm looking/waiting for a partner who can manage the more scientific parts (like manufacturing and testing), as I can handle the groundwork (my family does business is China, so we should be able to get to reliable manufacturers for cheap) and the website technical stuff, as well as marketing and branding. It would be interesting to invest in novel enhancement technologies beyond racetams (though they can play a part too).

The problem I see is this:

- Medicine/Biogenics is definetely out of bounds for people who are non biotech engineers (PHDs) or doctors, this is simply a legal thing, as we can't go manufacturing medicine without certificates, not even in China, and can't go about practicing medicine. If someone knew the legal system in medicine manufacturing - that would be extremely useful.
- Supplements have low profit margin, and there is a lot of competition (saturated) , though i'm very very interested in Chinese domestic market for supplements as thats a very undeveloped area.
- Market for nootropics is fairly small at the moment (judging from google analytics)

But what about everything inbetween? The websites and devices i've seen on these other websites look cheap, poorly marketed, and expensive and the information is not well written. We could certainly do with an institute that puts all this to the side of commercially feasible. That said I can see why photomodulation never developed into a market, because companies cannot make a lot of money this way. I have a few other ideas.

It sounds like a complicated business - but it really isn't, its not even cutting edge - its just taking whats already out there and putting everything into one place. So if anybody is interested please do have a chat.

Edited by Major Legend, 10 July 2013 - 08:42 AM.