4029 replies to this topic

[trophic]

I'm a 20yo male with a debilitating condition of brain fog, fatigue and hormone problems that have continued for the past 2 years and were most likely originally caused by late-stage Lyme disease. I've tried pretty much every treatment imaginable, and almost everything makes me feel worse or has no effect. Since I don't really have anything to lose at this point, I ordered a Vetrolaser after seeing lostfalco's post. I'm not expecting much, but I'll give it a try to see what happens.

Before these problems began getting bad 2 years ago, I was an extremely active and high-performing college student, but I am now on medical leave. I won't go into too much detail here, but some of my problems include:

constant brain fog and mental fatigue
detachment/depersonalization, complete lack of emotion, anhedonia
no motivation/interest or ability to focus
decreased cognitive function and low verbal fluidity
sleep problems
adrenal fatigue (messed up cortisol patterns, low DHEA-S)
hypothyroidism (not currently on any thyroid medication because it makes me feel worse)
secondary hypogonadism (currently treating with Clomid)
low heart rate and blood pressure
chronic GI issues, mostly constipation/bloating/indigestion/slow motility
cerebral hypoperfusion (shown by SPECT scan)
high mercury levels (hair, blood, and urine) although never had any dental fillings

I was treated with an aggressive long-term antibiotic protocol for Lyme but most of my symptoms remain. Chronic inflammation and mitochondrial dysfunction most likely play a central role in my continuing condition, which is why I am trying LLLT. Do any of you have any specific suggestions for how I should try using the Vetrolaser for my condition? Also, even though LLLT currently seems like it might be safe, what do you think are the theoretical mechanisms by which it could potentially have harmful effects in the short or long-term?

I'm also probably going to try tDCS, but I haven't decided which product to buy yet.

I've also tried pregnenolone, and it was one of the few treatments that actually helped, at least initially. I first tried it in the oral form, and it made all of my symptoms improve significantly. However, as I continued to take it, it would only make me feel more fatigued and feel worse than I had before. I also tried it in sublingual and transdermal forms in varying doses, but these also only caused marginal improvement while making me feel much more fatigued. I've experimented with it a few times since, but I still can't figure out a way to take it without crashing a few hours after.

Since I'm trying some of the treatments that are being discussed in this thread, I'll post updates with my results. I'd also appreciate any input from you guys.

Thank you to lostfalco and everyone else for contributing your thoughts and experiences.

Hey Trophic, thanks for posting man. I really hope the Vetro works for you. I'm not sure that it will solve the underlying issues, but hopefully it will help with some of the brain related symptoms. It does enhance mitochondrial function and cerebral blood flow, so there's definitely a chance it will work. The PQQ and CoQ10 protocol might be something else to look into once you've tried the Vetro out for a while by itself. Those three together have probably been the best thing I've ever tried. Please do keep me posted. If that protocol doesn't work we can talk about some other possible combinations to try. Everybody's biology is a little different.

As far as tDCS goes, the least expensive option is this $40 device. http://tdcs-kit.com/ I haven't tried it myself, but check with alexburke over in the tDCS thread. http://www.longecity...page__st__330 I think he bought one and it seems to be significantly helping him with his schizophrenia. At that price, it's definitely worth a try.

Another idea to look into might be Russian peptide bioregulators. These were developed with massive funding from the Russian military during the Cold War by Dr. Vladimir Khavinson. They are small peptide chains (usually 3-5 amino acids long) that go into gene promoter sites and cause gene expression. There are peptides for the immune system, circulatory system, nervous system, adrenal glands, etc. They are extremely safe and there have been virtually no side effects in thousands of patients over the past 35 years. I've tried a number of them and they were excellent. This is the best article. http://www.antiaging...tide-revolution

I bought mine here: http://www.antiaging...-bioregulartors
You can also find more peptides here: http://peptideworldc...szulas-peptidek
And here are the liquid peptides: http://peptideworldc...yekony-peptidek

Here's Prof. Vladimir Khavinson's homepage. http://www.khavinson.ru/

Here's an excellent summary of the concept of peptide bioregulators. http://www.khavinson...ation-of-ageing

Here's a full-text pdf on the effects of peptide bioregulator Pinealon in Wistar rats. http://www.khavinson...on_Ribakova.pdf

I hope you find some relief from the brain fog and fatigue you are suffering. Lyme disease is a really difficult one to crack.

Hey Lostfalco, thanks a lot for your response and detailed advice. I agree that the Vetro is very unlikely to address the root of my problems, but I'm trying it because I know that mitochondrial dysfunction and decreased cerebral blood flow are probably a main part of my chronic inflammatory condition. If I did in fact get rid of the Lyme infection when I treated with antibiotics, it's possible that my continuing symptoms have to do with damage caused by the Lyme and/or heavy metals. I also think it's possible that I experienced further damage when I made the mistake of trusting a doctor who put me on 1mg/day of Arimidex for several weeks, which is enough to decrease estradiol levels to almost nil. Since estrogen is neuroprotective and I'm pretty sure I experienced a decline in my condition during this time, I think that i may have experienced lasting neurodegeneration.

I've been on several mitochondrial supplements for a while, including 200mg ubiquinol and 20mg PQQ daily. I haven't noticed any clear results from these supplements, although if anything they might make me even more fatigued. I tend to react negatively or have paradoxical responses to most supplements or drugs I try. I'll probably try the Vetrolaser on my forehead tomorrow, although I doubt that any effects it has will be profound enough to notice given the extent of my condition.

Thanks for the tDCS product suggestion. Do you think that this kit is just as effective and safe as the more expensive products? I was considering the one at trans-cranial.com, but I haven't been able to find many reviews of different tDCS devices. Since this medical condition has basically taken away my life, it is worth spending extra money for something that is more likely to be effective, especially given that I have already sunk thousands of dollars into ineffective treatments and doctor appointments. However, if there is no difference in effectiveness, spending less money would definitely be nice.

I've looked into peptide bioregulators, but they are actually one of the few things that I haven't tried, since i wasn't able to find much published research or patient feedback. Since I have tried so many products that made me feel worse or had no effects, I am very skeptical of new supplements, especially when I see dubious claims that they can cure all sorts of problems. I'll probably order the CNS and adrenal peptides and try them just to be comprehensive, but I seriously doubt that they'll have any effects on my condition.

At this point, the only treatments that might have noticeable positive effects are Cerebrolysin and pregnenolone (at least for the brief period of time before I crash and feel worse). However, exercise seems to be the only thing that clearly makes me feel significantly better. When I make myself do some sort of workout, I generally have much better cognitive function and energy (although still not even close to normal) for 2-3 hours after. I'm not sure if this has to do with increasing blood flow or spiking cortisol or catecholamine release, but I'd like to figure out if there is any way of prolonging those effects or using them to figure out how to treat the underlying cause of my condition.

Thanks again for your ideas. Sorry if any of my writing is poorly organized or difficult to understand, as my condition has impaired my ability to think and form sentences.

[Psionic]

To Lostfalco and Trophic,

interesting, I have a lyme for a few years too and in the past the only thing that helped was alcohol hangover (partially I believe due to NMDA antagonism), that was only when the emotions get back and I didnt fell dullnes in my forehead. The option I am trying now is a lot speculative MMS (chloride), which should be able to kill parasites and clear out chronic inflammation (which lyme is), I will look forward for blood tests on boreliosis from local doc to confirm its effects. The real subjective problem looks like to be blood flow, just like blockage of prefrontal which brings dizziness, inability to focus, lightheadness, brain fog. It all can be also signs of candida/inflammation/bad gut flora and so on..

The bulletproof (tea in my case) and ketogenic diet is really helping with focus, the bone broth to restore gut (especially after antibiotics) is something which I can really recommend.

I tried tDCS in the past and it has very unpredictable outcome (maybe due to bad electrodes), it helped to relieve off depresive symptoms and I will definitelly try again.

What I am really looking for is lllt, I received laser device just yesterday focusable 808nm 200mw along with ubiquinol and I am just waiting only for PQQ to test it out. So you can await my reports soon

Edited by Psionic, 16 July 2013 - 08:18 AM.

[Skp30]

Lostfalco, I'm really looking forward to hearing your update on the Ebay laser. I'm tempted to buy the vetrolaser asap, but money's a bit tight at the moment so will wait until your update. I really appreciate this thread you've started and I've learned so much from it! Thanks!

No problem. Thanks for reading my craziness. =)

I would definitely recommend holding off on the Vetro for now. I'll let you know as soon as I test the ebay laser. I know we can make this affordable for everyone...it might just take a little trial and error.

I love reading your "craziness," which is so not as it's been extremely helpful I decided to go ahead and order the vetro since I will use it for other medical purposes such as my upper back muscle tension which I always seem to have (need more magnesium, maybe) and for my dad's sore legs from walking on the treadmill. Two birds w/one stone and all. Also bought the DIY tDCS for $40 bucks http://tdcs-kit.com Will eventually do TULIP and aniracetam for anxiety and brain boosting, maybe modafinil in addition to my other vitamins/supplements. Will hold off on the Bulletproof Vibration Plate til next month (always wanted one for working out, anyways). Can't wait for the extra boost in REAL energy.

You listed your brain boosting supplements (in addition to BP coffee), but are you also using general vitamins such as a multi-vitamin or Vitamin D? Thanks!

[trophic]

To Lostfalco and Trophic,

interesting, I have a lyme for a few years too and in the past the only thing that helped was alcohol hangover (partially I believe due to NMDA antagonism), that was only when the emotions get back and I didnt fell dullnes in my forehead. The option I am trying now is a lot speculative MMS (chloride), which should be able to kill parasites and clear out chronic inflammation (which lyme is), I will look forward for blood tests on boreliosis from local doc to confirm its effects. The real subjective problem looks like to be blood flow, just like blockage of prefrontal which brings dizziness, inability to focus, lightheadness, brain fog. It all can be also signs of candida/inflammation/bad gut flora and so on..

The bulletproof (tea in my case) and ketogenic diet is really helping with focus, the bone broth to restore gut (especially after antibiotics) is something which I can really recommend.

I tried tDCS in the past and it has very unpredictable outcome (maybe due to bad electrodes), it helped to relieve off depresive symptoms and I will definitelly try again.

What I am really looking for is lllt, I received laser device just yesterday focusable 808nm 200mw along with ubiquinol and I am just waiting only for PQQ to test it out. So you can await my reports soon

Hi Psionic,

It's interesting that an alcohol hangover helped you get your emotions back. Regarding NMDA antagonism, I've been on memantine for several months at a dose of 15mg total per day for the purpose of preventing excitotoxicity and upregulating DAergic function. This didn't seem to help at all, so I've been weaning off and am currently down to 5mg/day. I've also been on fairly high doses of magnesium for a long time, but this also hasn't produced any noticeable improvement.

I've never tried MMS, but I'll look into it if it seems to help you. The Lyme blood tests are notoriously inconclusive, so I'm not sure that you can reliably determine a treatment's effectiveness based on ELISA or Western Blot results.

I've seen the bulletproof coffee, ketogenic diet and bone broth recommended a lot. I've been consuming large amounts of grass-fed bone broth for the past few months, without noticeable improvement in GI function. I've been on a ketogenic diet for the past several months to see if it would improve cognitive function, but my condition is mostly just as bad as before. I don't use bulletproof coffee or tea, but I consume 3+ Tbsp MCT oil throughout every day, along with grass-fed butter and ghee in meals. I've also been on a mostly paleo diet since soon after I got sick, and I eliminated most possible allergens, including gluten, grains, dairy (except butter), soy, corn, nightshades, etc. However, I never really noticed any difference on this diet, and I just continue because I don't think it can be doing any harm to eliminate these foods. I don't use anything with caffeine anymore, because it generally just makes me feel more fatigued and crash. Green tea used to make me feel better during the earlier stages of my illness when I wasn't as bad as I am now, but I think adrenal burnout has caused me to only respond negatively to all forms of caffeine now.

I hope you have more success than me with ubiquinol and PQQ. I tried the Vetro for the 1st time for 4' on my upper forehead this morning, but I didn't notice any effects. I'll try it at different locations, but I'm guessing that my condition is too complex for something like lllt to help significantly.

Have you made any progress since you got Lyme, and have you found any treatments that help a lot? Have you been treated with antibiotics?

[Joe Cohen]

I'd be cautious with lasers. We don't know the long term effects, especially in cognitively healthy people. Its effects are also not specific. tDCS was thought to be safe by everyone until it was found to have side effects - that's why I stopped using it. LLLT is way less studied than tDCS. The bottom line is if you are on the low side of the IQ scale and don't have much to lose or just want to experiment for experimentation's sake, then go ahead (I might experiment) but exercise HEAVY CAUTION. This isn't something to be taken lightly. If I experimented with it and noticed great benefits and no drawbacks I'd probably use it once every two weeks to minimize risk over the long term.

tDCS. I may post studies later.
"The Oxford group has also previously revealed an additional type of brain stimulation known asTDCS, which may make people more efficient at learning and processing new numerical symbols. However, there may be some side effects regarding other cognitive functions with this method."
http://www.medicalne...cles/260695.php


Check this out:

Vetrolaser = 200mW/cm2

Study 1:
Following long-term microwave exposure there was a significant decrease in learning and memory activity in the 7 d, 14 d, and 1 m in all three microwave exposure groups. Neurotransmitter concentrations of four amino acids (glutamate, aspartic acid, glycine, and gamma-aminobutyric acid) in hippocampus were increased in the 2.5 and 5 mW/cm2 groups and decreased in the 10 mW/cm2 group. There was evidence of neuronal degeneration and enlarged perivascular spaces in the hippocampus in the microwave exposure groups. Further, mitochondria became swollen and cristae were disordered. The rough endoplasmic reticulum exhibited sacculated distension and there was a decrease in the quantity of synaptic vesicles.

CONCLUSION:

These data suggest that the hippocampus can be injured by long-term microwave exposure, which might result in impairment of cognitive function due to neurotransmitter disruption.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22998825

Study 2:
Abstract Purpose: This study was intended to assess the impact of microwave exposure on learning and memory and to explore the underlying mechanisms. Materials and methods: 100 Wistar rats were exposed to a 2.856 GHz pulsed microwave field at average power densities of 0 mW/cm2, 5 mW/cm2, 10 mW/cm2 and 50 mW/cm2 for 6 min. The spatial memory was assessed by the Morris Water Maze (MWM) task. An in vivo study was conducted soon after microwave exposure to evaluate the changes of population spike (PS) amplitudes of long-term potentiation (LTP) in the medial perforant path (MPP)-dentate gyrus (DG) pathway. The structure of the hippocampus was observed by the light microscopy and the transmission electron microscopy (TEM) at 7 d after microwave exposure. Results: Our results showed that the rats exposed in 10 mW/cm2 and 50 mW/cm2microwave displayed significant deficits in spatial learning and memory at 6 h, 1 d and 3 d after exposure. Decreased PS amplitudes were also found after 10 mW/cm2 and 50 mW/cm2 microwave exposure. Besides, varying degrees of degeneration of hippocampal neurons, decreased synaptic vesicles and blurred synaptic clefts were observed in the rats exposed in 10 mW/cm2 and 50 mW/cm2 microwave. Compared with the sham group, the rats exposed in 5 mW/cm2 microwave showed no difference in the above experiments. Conclusions: This study suggested that impairment of LTP induction and the damages of hippocampal structure, especially changes of synapses, might contribute to cognitive impairment after microwave exposure.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23786183

Edited by Joe Cohen, 17 July 2013 - 05:41 AM.

[Joe Cohen]

As far as oxygen goes, I'd be more comfortable using ayurvedic breathing exercises over the long term because it likely has most of the benefits without the risks....Personal preference...I may at some point in the future post a lengthier analysis and my opinions of all of these ideas one by one on my selfhacked blog...

Ciao

[Major Legend]

I don't know about you guys, but the idea of putting direct current through your brain has always sounded hap hazard to me. It's a different from photobiomodulation which relies on energy absorbed by mitochondria - because you are stimulating the entire brain by running electricity through it (I think you can do this with computers as well, the circuits burn out), throwing electrons through the brain doesn't sound like a good way of stimulating the brain because its not targeted and it goes right through to things that don't require stimulation.

Not really sure if photobiomodulation has anything to do with microwaving the brain? The way the absorbed energy acts on a cellular level may changed completely simply due to frequency/wavelength - i'm not surprised that microwaving even in low doses can damage the brain - Anyone smart comment?

For a more finely crafted solution - neurofeedback seems to be a good option, but its inaccessible due to cost. It seems to make sense to calibrate the brain like programming a computer rather than just throwing chemical stimulation.

[Joe Cohen]

Major,
The issue to me seems more to do with the power density than the spectrum of the wave. But if it had to do with the spectrum of the wave then that would be EVEN WORSE for LLLT and make it even more risky/dangerous. This is because microwaves are safer than infrared waves and waves from the visible color spectrum. Refer to the image.

In order of safety given the same power density per surface area:

radiowaves>microwaves>infrared>visible spectrum>UV>X ray>Gamma rays

"Low level laser therapy (LLLT) is the application of light (usually a low power laser or LED in the range of 1mW – 500mW) to a pathology to promote tissue regeneration, reduce inflammation and relieve pain. The light is typically of narrow spectral width in the red or near infrared (NIR) spectrum (600nm – 1000nm), with a power density (irradiance) between 1mw-5W/cm2. It is typically applied to the injury for a minute or so, a few times a week for several weeks. Unlike other medical laser procedures, LLLT is not an ablative or thermal mechanism, but rather a photochemical effect comparable to photosynthesis in plants whereby the light is absorbed and exerts a chemical change."
http://www.ncbi.nlm....?report=classic

I'd probably only experiment with this if it were cheap to buy and was demonstrated to improve cognition in healthy young(ish) adults -like tDCS. Even then I would use it sparingly until there was long term data. This isn't because I'm a risk averse person, as evidenced by the things I have tried. I just think people need to take smart risks.

Edited by Joe Cohen, 17 July 2013 - 07:31 AM.

[Joe Cohen]

Oh, and one more thing. I noticed lostfalco was into cold thermogenesis. The latest research demonstrates that it causes heart disease. Use with caution.

"At first, we thought that the cold activation of brown fat would only make the mice thinner and healthier," says Yihao Cao at the Department of Microbiology, Tumour and Cell Biology at Karolinska Institutet, and the Department of Medicine and Health at Linköping University. "Instead, we found that they ended up having more fat stored in the blood vessels. This came as a surprise and was the opposite of what we thought would happen."
It turned out that exposure to low temperatures accelerated the formation of atherosclerotic plaque in the mice, which can cause myocardial infarction and brain haemorrhaging. Moreover, the cold made the plaque less stable, and if such plaque ruptures, stored fat can leak into the blood, blocking vessels in the heart and brain. The cold-activated breakdown of fatty acids in the mice's brown fat led to the accumulation of low-density lipoproteins (LDL) in the blood and an increase in fat storage in the plaque."
http://medicalxpress...se-related.html

[DamnedOwl]

Sorry for the slight diversion from the current tenor of the thread, but I wanted to ask for some ideas about some MCT Oil I recently got hold of.

Actually, it's in powder form rather than liquid form, and since most of the guidelines for its use assume it's a liquid, has anyone got an idea as to what the conversion from liquid to powder would be?

It's 100% powder, by the way.

[lostfalco]

I'd be cautious with lasers. We don't know the long term effects, especially in cognitively healthy people. Its effects are also not specific. tDCS was thought to be safe by everyone until it was found to have side effects - that's why I stopped using it. LLLT is way less studied than tDCS. The bottom line is if you are on the low side of the IQ scale and don't have much to lose or just want to experiment for experimentation's sake, then go ahead (I might experiment) but exercise HEAVY CAUTION. This isn't something to be taken lightly. If I experimented with it and noticed great benefits and no drawbacks I'd probably use it once every two weeks to minimize risk over the long term.

tDCS. I may post studies later.
"The Oxford group has also previously revealed an additional type of brain stimulation known asTDCS, which may make people more efficient at learning and processing new numerical symbols. However, there may be some side effects regarding other cognitive functions with this method."
http://www.medicalne...cles/260695.php


Check this out:

Vetrolaser = 200mW/cm2

Study 1:
Following long-term microwave exposure there was a significant decrease in learning and memory activity in the 7 d, 14 d, and 1 m in all three microwave exposure groups. Neurotransmitter concentrations of four amino acids (glutamate, aspartic acid, glycine, and gamma-aminobutyric acid) in hippocampus were increased in the 2.5 and 5 mW/cm2 groups and decreased in the 10 mW/cm2 group. There was evidence of neuronal degeneration and enlarged perivascular spaces in the hippocampus in the microwave exposure groups. Further, mitochondria became swollen and cristae were disordered. The rough endoplasmic reticulum exhibited sacculated distension and there was a decrease in the quantity of synaptic vesicles.

CONCLUSION:

These data suggest that the hippocampus can be injured by long-term microwave exposure, which might result in impairment of cognitive function due to neurotransmitter disruption.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22998825

Study 2:
Abstract Purpose: This study was intended to assess the impact of microwave exposure on learning and memory and to explore the underlying mechanisms. Materials and methods: 100 Wistar rats were exposed to a 2.856 GHz pulsed microwave field at average power densities of 0 mW/cm2, 5 mW/cm2, 10 mW/cm2 and 50 mW/cm2 for 6 min. The spatial memory was assessed by the Morris Water Maze (MWM) task. An in vivo study was conducted soon after microwave exposure to evaluate the changes of population spike (PS) amplitudes of long-term potentiation (LTP) in the medial perforant path (MPP)-dentate gyrus (DG) pathway. The structure of the hippocampus was observed by the light microscopy and the transmission electron microscopy (TEM) at 7 d after microwave exposure. Results: Our results showed that the rats exposed in 10 mW/cm2 and 50 mW/cm2microwave displayed significant deficits in spatial learning and memory at 6 h, 1 d and 3 d after exposure. Decreased PS amplitudes were also found after 10 mW/cm2 and 50 mW/cm2 microwave exposure. Besides, varying degrees of degeneration of hippocampal neurons, decreased synaptic vesicles and blurred synaptic clefts were observed in the rats exposed in 10 mW/cm2 and 50 mW/cm2 microwave. Compared with the sham group, the rats exposed in 5 mW/cm2 microwave showed no difference in the above experiments. Conclusions: This study suggested that impairment of LTP induction and the damages of hippocampal structure, especially changes of synapses, might contribute to cognitive impairment after microwave exposure.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23786183

Hey Joe! Thanks for posting man. I've recommended that a few people check out your http://selfhacked.com/ blog and get advice from you on how to improve their LSAT score using your supplement regimen. I hope that's cool with you. =) I really appreciate your relentless focus on the actual scientific research.

First of all, I couldn't agree more that caution is always warranted. I'm totally with you there.

Secondly, the Vetrolaser is not 200mW/cm2, it is much less than that. It has three diodes which are 66mW each. I confirmed this in a phone call with Dr. Kamen himself a number of months ago and spoke about it on page 3 of this thread. http://www.longecity.../page__st__60

Thirdly, microwaves have VERY different biological effects than 'near infrared waves'...at least, that's what the infrared beams flowing through my brain are telling me to say. =) Wavelength AND power density are both crucially important. http://en.wikipedia....gnetic_spectrum

The next time I 'hack' my brain by putting my head in the microwave I'll let you know. (aka, You'll hear about it in the news with the title "Man burns face off while trying to become megalomaniacal genius. Wins 2013 Darwin Award.")

Fourthly, there is a dose-dependent response with low level laser therapy. If you do it every day, then you will not get the benefits. Please read every article by Mike Hamblin http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22461763 on pubmed. He talks about this repeatedly. =)

Fifthly, please read the most recent article by Gonzalez-Lima. He summarizes the current state of 'transcranial' low level laser therapy research extremely well. I recently posted on how to get this article for free from your local university library on page 10. http://www.longecity...s/page__st__270

Sixthly, long term transcranial effects are unknown. Totally agree with you! The Naeser pilot study discussed patients using lllt for 5+ years but that's as far as it goes. I talked about the Naeser study and the limited state of the research on page 1 of this thread. http://www.longecity...xperiments/ If you look at the lllt research on other body parts however, it's been done for decades with virtually zero side effects. You're right that the brain is different and extrapolation here is speculative. Critical thought and intelligent reading of the primary research are our friends.

Seventhly (I've never typed this word before, ha), typing 'low level laser therapy' into pubmed brings up 3,510 results. Typing 'transcranial low level laser therapy' only brings up 18. That's where we are right now. Check Thor Lasers for more info on the research. http://blog.thorlaser.com/ They do a little update every month or so.

Eighthly (I'm just making up words now), let's be friends. I love your approach. Teamwork is almost always better (aka 'You AND I' are WAY smarter than just me.) I apologize for not calling you on the phone per our private message. I'm working full-time, doing massive amounts of research and self experimentation, interviewing for jobs, preparing to move, and answering every question that I have time for. I may need to up my modafinil dose to keep up. =)

I wish you nothing but the best and look forward to an amicable conversation.

Edited by lostfalco, 17 July 2013 - 02:53 PM.

[Joe Cohen]

I'd be cautious with lasers. We don't know the long term effects, especially in cognitively healthy people. Its effects are also not specific. tDCS was thought to be safe by everyone until it was found to have side effects - that's why I stopped using it. LLLT is way less studied than tDCS. The bottom line is if you are on the low side of the IQ scale and don't have much to lose or just want to experiment for experimentation's sake, then go ahead (I might experiment) but exercise HEAVY CAUTION. This isn't something to be taken lightly. If I experimented with it and noticed great benefits and no drawbacks I'd probably use it once every two weeks to minimize risk over the long term.

tDCS. I may post studies later.
"The Oxford group has also previously revealed an additional type of brain stimulation known asTDCS, which may make people more efficient at learning and processing new numerical symbols. However, there may be some side effects regarding other cognitive functions with this method."
http://www.medicalne...cles/260695.php


Check this out:

Vetrolaser = 200mW/cm2

Study 1:
Following long-term microwave exposure there was a significant decrease in learning and memory activity in the 7 d, 14 d, and 1 m in all three microwave exposure groups. Neurotransmitter concentrations of four amino acids (glutamate, aspartic acid, glycine, and gamma-aminobutyric acid) in hippocampus were increased in the 2.5 and 5 mW/cm2 groups and decreased in the 10 mW/cm2 group. There was evidence of neuronal degeneration and enlarged perivascular spaces in the hippocampus in the microwave exposure groups. Further, mitochondria became swollen and cristae were disordered. The rough endoplasmic reticulum exhibited sacculated distension and there was a decrease in the quantity of synaptic vesicles.

CONCLUSION:

These data suggest that the hippocampus can be injured by long-term microwave exposure, which might result in impairment of cognitive function due to neurotransmitter disruption.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22998825

Study 2:
Abstract Purpose: This study was intended to assess the impact of microwave exposure on learning and memory and to explore the underlying mechanisms. Materials and methods: 100 Wistar rats were exposed to a 2.856 GHz pulsed microwave field at average power densities of 0 mW/cm2, 5 mW/cm2, 10 mW/cm2 and 50 mW/cm2 for 6 min. The spatial memory was assessed by the Morris Water Maze (MWM) task. An in vivo study was conducted soon after microwave exposure to evaluate the changes of population spike (PS) amplitudes of long-term potentiation (LTP) in the medial perforant path (MPP)-dentate gyrus (DG) pathway. The structure of the hippocampus was observed by the light microscopy and the transmission electron microscopy (TEM) at 7 d after microwave exposure. Results: Our results showed that the rats exposed in 10 mW/cm2 and 50 mW/cm2microwave displayed significant deficits in spatial learning and memory at 6 h, 1 d and 3 d after exposure. Decreased PS amplitudes were also found after 10 mW/cm2 and 50 mW/cm2 microwave exposure. Besides, varying degrees of degeneration of hippocampal neurons, decreased synaptic vesicles and blurred synaptic clefts were observed in the rats exposed in 10 mW/cm2 and 50 mW/cm2 microwave. Compared with the sham group, the rats exposed in 5 mW/cm2 microwave showed no difference in the above experiments. Conclusions: This study suggested that impairment of LTP induction and the damages of hippocampal structure, especially changes of synapses, might contribute to cognitive impairment after microwave exposure.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23786183

Hey Joe! Thanks for posting man. I've recommended that a few people check out your http://selfhacked.com/ blog and get advice from you on how to improve their LSAT score using your supplement regimen. I hope that's cool with you. =) I really appreciate your relentless focus on the actual scientific research.

First of all, I couldn't agree more that caution is always warranted. I'm totally with you there.

Secondly, the Vetrolaser is not 200mW/cm2, it is much less than that. It has three diodes which are 66mW each. I confirmed this in a phone call with Dr. Kamen himself a number of months ago and spoke about it on page 3 of this thread. http://www.longecity.../page__st__60

Thirdly, microwaves have VERY different biological effects than 'near infrared waves'...at least, that's what the infrared beams flowing through my brain are telling me to say. =) Wavelength AND power density are both crucially important. http://en.wikipedia....gnetic_spectrum

The next time I 'hack' my brain by putting my head in the microwave I'll let you know. (aka, You'll hear about it in the news with the title "Man burns face off while trying to become megalomaniacal genius. Wins 2013 Darwin Award.")

Fourthly, there is a dose-dependent response with low level laser therapy. If you do it every day, then you will not get the benefits. Please read every article by Mike Hamblin http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/22461763 on pubmed. He talks about this repeatedly. =)

Fifthly, please read the most recent article by Gonzalez-Lima. He summarizes the current state of 'transcranial' low level laser therapy research extremely well. I recently posted on how to get this article for free from your local university library on page 10. http://www.longecity...s/page__st__270

Sixthly, long term transcranial effects are unknown. Totally agree with you! The Naeser pilot study discussed patients using lllt for 5+ years but that's as far as it goes. I talked about the Naeser study and the limited state of the research on page 1 of this thread. http://www.longecity...xperiments/ If you look at the lllt research on other body parts however, it's been done for decades with virtually zero side effects. You're right that the brain is different and extrapolation here is speculative. Critical thought and intelligent reading of the primary research are our friends.

Seventhly (I've never typed this word before, ha), typing 'low level laser therapy' into pubmed brings up 3,510 results. Typing 'transcranial low level laser therapy' only brings up 18. That's where we are right now. Check Thor Lasers for more info on the research. http://blog.thorlaser.com/ They do a little update every month or so.

Eighthly (I'm just making up words now), let's be friends. I love your approach. Teamwork is almost always better (aka 'You AND I' are WAY smarter than just me.) I apologize for not calling you on the phone per our private message. I'm working full-time, doing massive amounts of research and self experimentation, interviewing for jobs, preparing to move, and answering every question that I have time for. I may need to up my modafinil dose to keep up. =)

I wish you nothing but the best and look forward to an amicable conversation.

1) Thanks for recommendations and I agree collaboration is the best route..

2) "the Vetrolaser is not 200mW/cm2." You claimed that it was on a different page. Either way, all LLLT lasers use power densities in unsafe/risky ranges (1mw-5000mw/cm2). I would personally be scared about using a power density of 66mW/cm2, given the studies I mentioned.

3) "Thirdly, microwaves have VERY different biological effects than 'near infrared waves." I agree - they're different. "Near infrared" is significantly MORE dangerous than microwaves given the same power density, so we should be even more cautious.

4) The brain is a completely different animal than other parts of the body. I would feel safe using these lasers on other parts of my body for wound healing and other medical indications. I just wouldn't put it to my brain.

5) I'm glad you didn't take my critique in a negative way.

Be Well,
Joe

Edited by Joe Cohen, 17 July 2013 - 04:14 PM.

[rikelme]

Hey people,

My $50 200mw 808nm ebay laser just came in. A question: my understanding is that 808nm should not be visible to the human eye, but I clearly can see the red spot when I point the laser to some object (hand, wall, table... anything). Is that how it is supposed to be? The spot shape is rectangle, with length to width ratio of about 1 to 10, pretty much like the "-" symbol.

Can't wait to test it, but before I start, I kindly ask you guys to sum up what is best regime to start with? Should I put it on my forehead and slowly move it around for few minutes or should I put it on specific spots (Fp1, Fp2, F3, F4) and hold for some time? For how long?

Thanks !

Edited by rikelme, 17 July 2013 - 06:12 PM.

[8bitmore]

Just a quick snippet here: there is some very promising, although early, research (http://uanews.org/st...rain-ultrasound) going on in regards to using ultrasound probes for nootropic-like qualities, from article:

They conducted a followup study of ultrasound on UA psychology student volunteers, recording vital signs such as heart rate and breath rate, and narrowed down the optimum treatment to 2 megahertz for 30 seconds as the most likely to produce a positive mood change in patients.
"With 2 megahertz those who were stimulated with ultrasound reported feeling 'lighter,' or 'happier;' a little more attentive, a little more focused and a general increase in well-being," Sanguinetti said.

This honestly sounds superb to me - especially since ultrasound probes are cheap and have routinely been used for decades for much longer stretches to check the health of growing babies. We'll see, looking forward to first user reports from you guys (or myself, depending who gets there first!)

Edited by 8bitmore, 17 July 2013 - 10:06 PM.

[lostfalco]

Just a quick snippet here: there is some very promising, although early, research (http://uanews.org/st...rain-ultrasound) going on in regards to using ultrasound probes for nootropic-like qualities, from article:

They conducted a followup study of ultrasound on UA psychology student volunteers, recording vital signs such as heart rate and breath rate, and narrowed down the optimum treatment to 2 megahertz for 30 seconds as the most likely to produce a positive mood change in patients.
"With 2 megahertz those who were stimulated with ultrasound reported feeling 'lighter,' or 'happier;' a little more attentive, a little more focused and a general increase in well-being," Sanguinetti said.

This honestly sounds superb to me - especially since ultrasound probes are cheap and have routinely been used for decades for much longer stretches to check the health of growing babies. We'll see, looking forward to first user reports from you guys (or myself, depending who gets there first!)

Hey, what's up 8Bit? Thanks for sharing that article. I'm also really excited about the prospects for TUS. I'm a huge fan of Dr. William Tyler and his research. In fact, he's currently paying healthy people $100 to try out TUS in Boston for the rest of July and August. There are still spots open...especially in August. I'm seriously thinking about flying out there to try it out and meet him. They are doing two sessions and paying $50 each. Just click back to page 12 on this thread and scroll to the bottom for links and more info. If anyone lives near Boston and tries it out, please report back! =)

[lostfalco]

Wow, this substance (SR9009) has only been tested in mice but check this out. It's like the new generation of PQQ!

"The authors of the new study suggest that Rev-erbα affects muscle cells by promoting both the creation of new mitochondria (often referred to as the “power plants” of the cell) and the clearance of those mitochondria that are defective."

Another cool quote:

"Burris’ group showed that activation of Rev-erbα with SR9009 led to increased metabolic activity in skeletal muscle in both culture and in mice. The treated mice had a 50 percent increase in running capacity, measured by both time and distance.
The animals actually get muscles like an athlete who has been training,” said Burris. “The pattern of gene expression after treatment with SR9009 is that of an oxidative-type muscle — again, just like an athlete.”
http://www.kurzweila...roves-endurance

[8bitmore]

Just a quick snippet here: there is some very promising, although early, research (http://uanews.org/st...rain-ultrasound) going on in regards to using ultrasound probes for nootropic-like qualities, from article:

They conducted a followup study of ultrasound on UA psychology student volunteers, recording vital signs such as heart rate and breath rate, and narrowed down the optimum treatment to 2 megahertz for 30 seconds as the most likely to [...]

This honestly sounds superb to me [...]

Hey, what's up 8Bit? Thanks for sharing that article. I'm also really excited about the prospects for TUS. I'm a huge fan of Dr. William Tyler and his research. In fact, he's currently paying healthy people $100 to try out TUS in Boston for the rest of July and August. There are still spots open...especially in August. I'm seriously thinking about flying out there to try it out and meet him. They are doing two sessions and paying $50 each. Just click back to page 12 on this thread and scroll to the bottom for links and more info. If anyone lives near Boston and tries it out, please report back! =)

Hi lostfalco, thanks for the work/research you're committing to with keeping this thread going, lots and lots of good stuff. On the ultrasound subject: according to this article (pdf) by William Tyler the stimulating aspects of ultrasound are in the range of 30 to 500 mW/cm² and from the earlier article I learned that the right frequency is about 2MHz - now, getting practical, you can pick up a ultrasound 2MHz doppler for next to nothing on the UK edition of Amazon. It does however appear quite weak; its output is 2.5 mW/cm² (it is written "2.5w/cm2" on that particular device but that is likely a typo when compared to other similar devices).

Okay, looking at William Tyler's patent for the technology, it states,

• "Particularly advantageous I.sub.spta values are between about 100 mW/cm.sup.2 and about 700 mW/cm.sup.2"
• "In ultrasound, acoustic intensity is a measure of power per unit of cross sectional area (e.g. mW/cm.sup.2) and requires averaging across space and time. The intensity of the acoustic beam can be quantified by several metrics that differ in the method for spatial and temporal averaging. These metrics are defined according to technical standards established by the American Institute for Ultrasound in Medicine and National Electronics Manufacturers Administration (NEMA. Acoustic Output Measurement Standard For Diagnostic Ultrasound Equipment (National Electrical Manufacturers Association, 2004)). A commonly used intensity index is the `spatial-peak, temporal-average` intensity (I.sub.spta). The intensities reported herein refer to I.sub.spta at the targeted brain region."

So, in order to find out whether the baby doppler linked above could work (i.e. have the right mW/cm² output) when pointed at, say temporal lobes, we need to work out the I.sub.spta formula from NEMA, any takers?!

[Psionic]

I hope you have more success than me with ubiquinol and PQQ. I tried the Vetro for the 1st time for 4' on my upper forehead this morning, but I didn't notice any effects. I'll try it at different locations, but I'm guessing that my condition is too complex for something like lllt to help significantly.

Have you made any progress since you got Lyme, and have you found any treatments that help a lot? Have you been treated with antibiotics?

Trophic, I have recovered from the worst, but my condition was also much complex, including candida, depression and overall mental slow-down. Cutting off sugar was probably most important step. Now I try to exercise mind as much as possible, although theres still some hazy and random brain fog, I was still able to learn to play an instrument in two years and now practice mental math with xx.xxx multiplication, which I found very effective/taxing for working memory. But as you mentioned, we are not addressing root cause with brain training.

The adrenal burnout and caffeine seems to be very common, last friday I got too much of cola nut with guarana and then crashed hardly and been deadly tired for the rest of the following days. I think blood tests can show more, but going caffeine-free will be probably a solution. Stress management is probably essential to solve this.


Lostfalco, what russian peptides did you tried? And what results can one expect from them, for example can brain peptides be in any way comparable to the effect of Cerebrolysin?

[lostfalco]

1) Thanks for recommendations and I agree collaboration is the best route..

2) "the Vetrolaser is not 200mW/cm2." You claimed that it was on a different page. Either way, all LLLT lasers use power densities in unsafe/risky ranges (1mw-5000mw/cm2). I would personally be scared about using a power density of 66mW/cm2, given the studies I mentioned.

3) "Thirdly, microwaves have VERY different biological effects than 'near infrared waves." I agree - they're different. "Near infrared" is significantly MORE dangerous than microwaves given the same power density, so we should be even more cautious.

4) The brain is a completely different animal than other parts of the body. I would feel safe using these lasers on other parts of my body for wound healing and other medical indications. I just wouldn't put it to my brain.

5) I'm glad you didn't take my critique in a negative way.

Be Well,
Joe

Whew! I'm glad you took my response in the right way Joe. I think we all agree that there is nothing more annoying internet arguments. As the old saying goes, "if you're arguing on the internet, you've already lost." I very much prefer discussion, collaboration, and critical thought. Glad we're on the same page here.

I'm no guru (I like to call them gu-ruse), but I have read every article that I can find on transcranial low level laser therapy. Gonzalez-Lima lists all of the studies in his recent article and I've read all of those...so far, it looks to be extremely safe.

Additionally, the light is traveling through bone so only a fraction is actually getting to the brain. I don't want to bore people with math equations, but Zawy addresses this here. http://heelspurs.com/led.html#deep He actually builds his own devices for himself and others and posted on this thread at the bottom of page 5 http://www.longecity...s/page__st__120 and the top of page 6. http://www.longecity...page__st__150 He even offered to build pulsing infrared devices for us (I've only tried continuous). I'm still thinking about taking him up on his offer. Here's his Longecity page. http://www.longecity...er/6153-zawy/

For info on pulsing vs. continuous lllt read this article. http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3196530/

For info on bovine tissue penetration depth check out this article. http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3696948/

For into on human cranial bone light scattering properties check here. http://optics.sgu.ru...6163_616310.pdf

If you find any studies that show detrimental effects of 660nm, 808/810nm, or 830nm light, please let me know! I plan on living until 2060, so health is important to me. From everything I've read, it looks like the worst case scenario is that it is ineffective at the proper wavelengths, doses, timings, etc.

Thanks for your time, Joe. I'm just a guy trying to maximize his time here on earth. I'm not a scientist or an expert. I'm just sharing my experiences and self-experiments while hoping that others may benefit as well. I'm really looking forward to following your blog in the coming years. The number of things you've tried is seriously insane...and inspiring. It's cool to chat with you a bit.

Edited by lostfalco, 18 July 2013 - 02:45 PM.

[lostfalco]

Falco, one of the earlier authors you recommended us to read ( I think in the first page) mentioned specifically that laser was more effective for brain photomodulation than " light therapy" because laser penetrates deeper.

Without much scientific knowledge firsthand - it seems to make sense. LED lights probably can provide the same effect with longer exposure times and more specific EEG site placement, but it seems logical that a laser would be able to deliver energy faster, deeper and scatter a larger area of effect, especially for people who don't have a helmet rig set up, where the lights can be placed evenly around the entire head with longer periods of time.

Edit: Here:

All light-induced biological effects depend on the parameters of the irradiation (wavelength, dose, intensity, irradiation time, and continuous wave or pulsed mode, pulse parameters). According to action spectra, optimal wavelengths are 820-830, 760, 680, and 620 nn. Large volumes and deeper layers of tissues can successfully irradiated by laser only (e.g. inner and middle ear diseases, injured siatic or optical nerves, deep inflammations etc.). The LED's are excellent for irradiation of surface injuries.

http://laserhealthsy...resentation.htm

good article on photobiomodulation. hope this helps

as promised here is the chinese site:
http://item.taobao.c...&id=25743172678

about $7 USD, I think this one has no power adaptor though - just showing why companies would never make money from selling these lasers.

Thanks for the links ML. I'm with you...lasers seem to make more sense because of penetration depth. The debate about LEDs vs. lasers that I was referring to stems from Zawy's view http://heelspurs.com....html#laser , Tiina Karu's old view http://www.isan.troi.../publ/691.pdf , and Gonzalez-Lima's recent discussion (extended quote below). There are others as well.

Additionally, this pilot study http://www.ncbi.nlm....4287/ used LED arrays to significantly enhance the lives of two TBI patients.

Based on our every day experiences with light, it does seem that coherent, focused light would work better...but so far LEDs seem to work too (and they're cheaper!).

Gonzalez-Lima extended quote.
"LLLT via commercial low-power lasers and LEDs constitutes an affordable and safe
alternative to current treatment options for cognitive impairment and brain dysfunction. Low power
LED arrays and laser diode sources are compact, portable, and have achieved nonsignificant
risk status for human trials by the FDA. High bioavailability of LLLT to brain tissue in
vivo is supported by preclinical evidence of transcranially-induced increases in brain cytochrome
oxidase activity and improved behavioral outcome in rats with impaired mitochondrial function
[5] and by improved brain cytochrome oxidase activity and memory retention in normal adult
rats [4]. Further evidence from the first controlled human study demonstrated the beneficial
effects of transcranial infrared laser stimulation on cognitive functions [13]. Thus, LLLT
treatments could be cost-effective, safe, and non-invasive [14] and could have broad impact and
significance to improve the cognitive health of our growing aging population. Transcranial LLLT
has already been successful at improving neurological outcome in humans in some controlled
clinical trials of stroke [15, 16]. However, early use of LLLT in people with compromised cerebral
blood flow may prove to also be an effective strategy before stroke because its beneficial effects
would be based on metabolic neuroplasticity natural to the undamaged brain, as opposed to be
based on less physiologic and less generalizable processes of cell repair. In other words, LLLT
has a potential as a strategy for primary or secondary stroke prevention in the specific setting of
chronic brain hypoperfusion (CBH) associated with cerebrovascular atherosclerosis. Likewise,
LLLT given before the onset of cognitive impairment, either vascular or associated with primary
neurodegenerative processes, may induce neuroprotection by facilitating a neurochemical
substrate for improved cognitive reserve. This would seem more plausible and advantageous
than interruption of an advanced multifactorial neurodegenerative process in which the
molecular machinery to support the secondary photobiologic effects of LLLT has been
damaged. In summary, the available evidence indicates that LLLT may have the ability to
enhance cognition and prevent neural dysfunction associated with CBH, stroke, traumatic brain
injury, dementia and other neurodegenerative processes when given before the onset of brain
damage."

Edited by lostfalco, 18 July 2013 - 03:50 PM.

[Major Legend]

To Lostfalco and Trophic,

interesting, I have a lyme for a few years too and in the past the only thing that helped was alcohol hangover (partially I believe due to NMDA antagonism), that was only when the emotions get back and I didnt fell dullnes in my forehead. The option I am trying now is a lot speculative MMS (chloride), which should be able to kill parasites and clear out chronic inflammation (which lyme is), I will look forward for blood tests on boreliosis from local doc to confirm its effects. The real subjective problem looks like to be blood flow, just like blockage of prefrontal which brings dizziness, inability to focus, lightheadness, brain fog. It all can be also signs of candida/inflammation/bad gut flora and so on..

The bulletproof (tea in my case) and ketogenic diet is really helping with focus, the bone broth to restore gut (especially after antibiotics) is something which I can really recommend.

I tried tDCS in the past and it has very unpredictable outcome (maybe due to bad electrodes), it helped to relieve off depresive symptoms and I will definitelly try again.

What I am really looking for is lllt, I received laser device just yesterday focusable 808nm 200mw along with ubiquinol and I am just waiting only for PQQ to test it out. So you can await my reports soon

I read somewhere here naltrexone creates the alcohol hangover nootropic effect - but i'm not sure if the glutamate rebound or what mechanism is causing your sudden recovery after alcohol.

I'm not really digesting this bulletproof coffee well, think I don't cope with oils well. The 300mg of Q10 i've been taking and its giving me subtle energy in the mornings so I think thats working. Waiting to hear on lost falco regarding the cheap laser before proceeding with biopqq (no good past experience) and laser.

Things i'm looking to try when I get around to and reduce my current debt:

Guanfacine for executive function
Phenylpiracetam for motivation and even more physical energy on top of increased testosterone
Oxytocin for socialising

Also i've been too busy to work out for the past 2 weeks, and the clomid/anastrole combo doesn't really have much of the aforementioned effect without adequate exercise at least 2 times a week - i've found squats to be a great and simple exercise to quickly keep testosterone production stimulated (just a guess), nootropic and motivation effects of testosterone is also non existent until the the use of nootropics and natural stimulants.

On the other hand my lack of exercise means the slight roid rage is gone, I feel less aggressive and my verbal fluidity (girl talk?) seems to be back.

Edited by Major Legend, 18 July 2013 - 05:38 PM.

[Major Legend]

Sorry for double post:

Here is a crazy idea:

I've been reading a lot about stocks and financial instruments recently, and am invested in a few things myself. Maybe in order to fund all these experiments and mental fixes we could use our improved collective brain powers to do security analysis. In a collaborative way, kind of like the way we are figuring out this, with the money made we could fund the increased costs of taking nootropics or fund the production of new technologies on a small scale, which can then be sold at a small profit.

It seems to make sense as there are a lot of smart people here who are enhancing themselves "at a cost", starting a business or crowd funding is too much work for those of us spread around the world and work full time.

With modern trading systems you can pretty much purchase and sell instruments everywhere in the world.

Of course it isn't easy, and many people will akin trading with gambling, I believe you can learn to be good at it with time provided you don't dabble in instruments which are akin to gambling like forex, warrants, futures and so on.

In the past I would have just tried to do it myself, but I'm starting to agree too collaboration seems to yield more benefits and even more if our experiments do manage to increase our intelligence somewhat from "average" to "smart", if we keep our security analysis group in a small scale it wouldn't be big enough for wall street analyst to pick up on, or to shift prices much.

Edit:

Sorry, this idea is way "out there" - anyways I would advise anyone who is thinking about long term finances to spend some of their newfound brain power to look at how to invest, not to preach here but inflation is about 4% per year. If you invest in a regular stock index your returns average out to be 9% per year over time, thats a lot of money when its compounded 9% per year. There is a lot of smart people on this forum, so i'm probably just repeating common sense. I guess if you want to live a long healthy life thats augmented by nootropics you have to start to think about the financial consequences as well.

Of course if your money is tied up on a mortgage for a house you are living in - thats the best kind of investment, please don't go betting your house in the stock market.

Edited by Major Legend, 18 July 2013 - 06:05 PM.

[Skp30]

Hey people,

My $50 200mw 808nm ebay laser just came in. A question: my understanding is that 808nm should not be visible to the human eye, but I clearly can see the red spot when I point the laser to some object (hand, wall, table... anything). Is that how it is supposed to be? The spot shape is rectangle, with length to width ratio of about 1 to 10, pretty much like the "-" symbol.

Can't wait to test it, but before I start, I kindly ask you guys to sum up what is best regime to start with? Should I put it on my forehead and slowly move it around for few minutes or should I put it on specific spots (Fp1, Fp2, F3, F4) and hold for some time? For how long?

Thanks !

I'm getting my vetrolaser tomorrow and from what Lostfalco and Opaquemind said, the specific spots F3 and F4 areas are the more important areas for stimulation and probably 2 days on/1 day off or every other day for 1-4 min each spot. I think Lostfalco said he does it on the forehead, but don't remember. I also plan on lasering the temporal lobes and the base of the back of neck. Opaquemind eventually went on to stimulate all 20 EEG areas and from what I've read so far, his results have been amazing. I'd like to try this sometime but not sure I want to shave my head, being female and all, lol. Maybe if I increase the time that I laser, it might work. Or if I part my hair in specific spots, some of it should get through. Then again, I could buy a wig

[Skp30]

Woops, correction! Not planning to aim the laser at the base of my neck (no brain activity there:P) but lower-rear base of the skull, the occipital lobe.

[lostfalco]

I've received a number of questions lately regarding sodium butyrate and the role of HDAC inhibition in learning and memory. Just thought I'd share a little bit of the research if you guys want to look into it. =)

NaB is a non-specific HDAC inhibitor. Current research indicates that inhibiting HDAC2 specifically is the primary enhancer of learning and memory. http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3498958/ Attempts are currently under way to create specific HDAC2 inhibitors http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3447535/ but it's a difficult task. Check out these two articles on NaB as an HDAC inhibitor http://jn.nutrition....33/7/2485S.long and also for it's role in learning and memory. http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23615664

Here's a quick little summary of sodium butyrate's effects. https://www.caymanch...m/catalog/13121

And, of course, the wiki on butyric acid. http://en.wikipedia....ki/Butyric_acid

Here's a quote on HDAC inhibition:
"Inhibitors of HDACs regulate CREB-dependent transcription (e.g. Fass et al., 2003) and enhance cognition (reviewed in Haggarty & Tsai, 2011). In the case of contextual fear conditioning, enhancement of cognition by HDAC inhibitors is dependent on the functioning of CREB (Vecsey et al., 2007). HDACs are a family of 18 isoforms that catalyze the deacetylation of the ε-amino group of lysine side chains in histone N-terminal tails, and also in numerous other intracellular proteins (Grozinger & Schreiber, 2002; Choudhary et al., 2009). The catalytic mechanism of 11 of these HDACs is critically dependent on a divalent zinc cation coordinated by conserved histidine and aspartate residues within the catalytic site (Bressi et al., 2010). Zinc-dependent HDAC isoforms have been categorized into classes based on structural analyses of the active sites and other domains in these proteins and inhibitor sensitivity (Bradner et al., 2010): class I (HDACs 1, 2, 3, and 8); class IIa (HDACs 4, 5, 7, and 9); class IIb (HDACs 6 and 10); and class IV (HDAC11)."

I hope that get's you guys started! Epigenetics is one of the coolest areas of science in our generation. Don't forget to keep following the Picower Institute. http://picower.mit.edu/ They are doing some very cool work in this area.

Here's an excellent popular work on epigenetics that I read a few months ago. http://www.amazon.co...rds=epigenetics

Here's the entirely free "Cognitive Enhancers" issue of Neuropharmacology. I recommend reading the whole thing...it's awesome! http://www.sciencedi...nal/00283908/64

Edited by lostfalco, 19 July 2013 - 02:46 PM.

[lostfalco]

A young 19 year old recently asked on another forum how to become the best biohacker that he could be. Here was my response. What do you guys think? Is there anything that you would add, modify, take away? As always, sorry for quoting myself...I'm just a dude (and this took me a little while to write). =)

"These are just my humble opinions, so please take them as such. =)

How To Become The Greatest Biohacker In The World
1. Become a biomedical engineer (preferably a computational biomedical engineer). http://www.bls.gov/o...l-engineers.htm
Computational Biomedical Engineer http://www.bme.utexa...cal-engineering
2. Master 3d Printing. http://www.amazon.co...s=3d printing AND/OR http://www.amazon.co...rds=3d printing
3. Take as many nutrition and chemistry electives as you can (especially biomolecular chemistry). https://en.wikipedia...iki/Biomolecule
4. Learn propositional logic http://www.amazon.co...74251788&sr=1-1 and combinatorics http://www.amazon.co...s=combinatorics Optional: Study for the LSAT (even though you're not going to take it) and use your scores to measure the efficacy of your brain hacks http://www.cambridgelsat.com/
5. Extensively study and practice social skills, style, and humor, especially humor. http://www.amazon.co...keywords=comedy Watch every episode of The Colbert Report and 30 Rock and watch massive amounts of stand up comedy including Jerry Seinfeld, Chris Rock, Jimmy Carr, Demetri Martin, Steven Wright, and Mitch Hedberg. Study their 'principles' and create your own style of humor.
6. Use this juggernaut of a skill set to help the poor and needy, enhance your own healthy brain as well as the healthy/unhealthy brains of others, and change the world for the better!
7. Plan on incremently finishing these steps by your 25th-28th birthday, and you will be a star. We need as many people like this as we can get.

Note: Biomedical Engineering is 100% worth the money you pay for a university degree, imo. You'll never have to worry about a job again, given the skills you acquire and the massive need."

Edited by lostfalco, 19 July 2013 - 05:47 PM.

[lostfalco]

So, I like to leave little surprises and jokes in random places for my gf. Sometimes, I'll just be working or reading and I'll hear her laugh and she'll come in with some silly note that I forgot I left in the freezer two months ago. On Friday, I put some shades on my BP Coffee, put it in the cupboard, and closed it up. When she came home and opened the cabinet door, she almost fell over laughing. We spent the rest of the evening dressing up the coffee and laughing our asses off...like true dweebs! ha

How does this relate to nootropics? Well, a number of my devices make an appearance including the ebay laser. I've been meaning to take pics for you guys so this is a start. Once I get my camera fixed (the damn thing won't consistently focus) I'll take some much better pictures. Anyway, I hope it makes you guys laugh a little...hopefully with me, but most likely at me. (again, ZERO affiliation with Asprey)

http://forum.bulletp...oung-biohacker/

Laser testing update: as you might be able to see from the reflection in the sunglasses from my pics...I'm currently moving and my apt is a wreck. Still aiming for testing update within a week or two (researching best testing methods/devices).

Edited by lostfalco, 21 July 2013 - 04:49 PM.

[chemicalambrosia]

Sorry for double post:

Here is a crazy idea:

I've been reading a lot about stocks and financial instruments recently, and am invested in a few things myself. Maybe in order to fund all these experiments and mental fixes we could use our improved collective brain powers to do security analysis. In a collaborative way, kind of like the way we are figuring out this, with the money made we could fund the increased costs of taking nootropics or fund the production of new technologies on a small scale, which can then be sold at a small profit.

It seems to make sense as there are a lot of smart people here who are enhancing themselves "at a cost", starting a business or crowd funding is too much work for those of us spread around the world and work full time.

With modern trading systems you can pretty much purchase and sell instruments everywhere in the world.

Of course it isn't easy, and many people will akin trading with gambling, I believe you can learn to be good at it with time provided you don't dabble in instruments which are akin to gambling like forex, warrants, futures and so on.

In the past I would have just tried to do it myself, but I'm starting to agree too collaboration seems to yield more benefits and even more if our experiments do manage to increase our intelligence somewhat from "average" to "smart", if we keep our security analysis group in a small scale it wouldn't be big enough for wall street analyst to pick up on, or to shift prices much.

Edit:

Sorry, this idea is way "out there" - anyways I would advise anyone who is thinking about long term finances to spend some of their newfound brain power to look at how to invest, not to preach here but inflation is about 4% per year. If you invest in a regular stock index your returns average out to be 9% per year over time, thats a lot of money when its compounded 9% per year. There is a lot of smart people on this forum, so i'm probably just repeating common sense. I guess if you want to live a long healthy life thats augmented by nootropics you have to start to think about the financial consequences as well.

Of course if your money is tied up on a mortgage for a house you are living in - thats the best kind of investment, please don't go betting your house in the stock market.

Kind of off topic for this thread, but...

Yes, I kind of wish there was a financial forum on this site. I've actually seen some nootropics discussion on a financial discussion board before(moda, amps, piracetam, etc). Assuming people are gaining enhanced cognition from nootropics, what are they actually doing with it? I realize a lot of the people here are students, or are trying to fix cognition problems. For those who aren't, a lot of them are probably just funneling increased intellectual productivity into their employer's pockets. That is the likely case unless you are a student, run your own business, or are an investor/trader(basically a business venture, if you pick individual stocks). With investing, because of the power of compounding, a number of years of extremely good returns can make a massive amount of money. You keep most(all in tax free retirement accounts) of the profits in your investments. Where that same effort might get you promoted if you are lucky in a conventional job, maybe you get 10-30%(random number) more pay, but that doesn't compound by itself.

Investing is of course difficult, and has a very steep learning curve and takes a lot of time and effort to learn. Its not for everyone, and the process of learning whether you have aptitude for it can be extremely expensive in both money and time. However, what you say about money and longevity is true. The world seems to increasingly be one of haves and have nots. If you live for 100+ years you don't want to end in poverty, or miss out on expensive life extension therapies only available to the rich. Whether someone invests in individual stocks or not, they should plan their financial future carefully.

There is a business subforum here under the society and economics forum. However, it gets almost no traffic.

[Major Legend]

Sorry for double post:

Here is a crazy idea:

I've been reading a lot about stocks and financial instruments recently, and am invested in a few things myself. Maybe in order to fund all these experiments and mental fixes we could use our improved collective brain powers to do security analysis. In a collaborative way, kind of like the way we are figuring out this, with the money made we could fund the increased costs of taking nootropics or fund the production of new technologies on a small scale, which can then be sold at a small profit.

It seems to make sense as there are a lot of smart people here who are enhancing themselves "at a cost", starting a business or crowd funding is too much work for those of us spread around the world and work full time.

With modern trading systems you can pretty much purchase and sell instruments everywhere in the world.

Of course it isn't easy, and many people will akin trading with gambling, I believe you can learn to be good at it with time provided you don't dabble in instruments which are akin to gambling like forex, warrants, futures and so on.

In the past I would have just tried to do it myself, but I'm starting to agree too collaboration seems to yield more benefits and even more if our experiments do manage to increase our intelligence somewhat from "average" to "smart", if we keep our security analysis group in a small scale it wouldn't be big enough for wall street analyst to pick up on, or to shift prices much.

Edit:

Sorry, this idea is way "out there" - anyways I would advise anyone who is thinking about long term finances to spend some of their newfound brain power to look at how to invest, not to preach here but inflation is about 4% per year. If you invest in a regular stock index your returns average out to be 9% per year over time, thats a lot of money when its compounded 9% per year. There is a lot of smart people on this forum, so i'm probably just repeating common sense. I guess if you want to live a long healthy life thats augmented by nootropics you have to start to think about the financial consequences as well.

Of course if your money is tied up on a mortgage for a house you are living in - thats the best kind of investment, please don't go betting your house in the stock market.

Kind of off topic for this thread, but...

Yes, I kind of wish there was a financial forum on this site. I've actually seen some nootropics discussion on a financial discussion board before(moda, amps, piracetam, etc). Assuming people are gaining enhanced cognition from nootropics, what are they actually doing with it? I realize a lot of the people here are students, or are trying to fix cognition problems. For those who aren't, a lot of them are probably just funneling increased intellectual productivity into their employer's pockets. That is the likely case unless you are a student, run your own business, or are an investor/trader(basically a business venture, if you pick individual stocks). With investing, because of the power of compounding, a number of years of extremely good returns can make a massive amount of money. You keep most(all in tax free retirement accounts) of the profits in your investments. Where that same effort might get you promoted if you are lucky in a conventional job, maybe you get 10-30%(random number) more pay, but that doesn't compound by itself.

Investing is of course difficult, and has a very steep learning curve and takes a lot of time and effort to learn. Its not for everyone, and the process of learning whether you have aptitude for it can be extremely expensive in both money and time. However, what you say about money and longevity is true. The world seems to increasingly be one of haves and have nots. If you live for 100+ years you don't want to end in poverty, or miss out on expensive life extension therapies only available to the rich. Whether someone invests in individual stocks or not, they should plan their financial future carefully.

There is a business subforum here under the society and economics forum. However, it gets almost no traffic.

I'm already invested and i'm using my enhanced energy to read up on stocks. I've been learning loads, spent the weekend understanding cash flow, revenue, balance sheets, inventories and so on. This is all to understand the health of the companies I might be investing in. I started up on mutual funds and have already made good gains from early this year, however i'm looking to eventually move to stocks for a whole assortment of reasons - low cost - liquid - no charges. Mutual funds are actively managed but they cost a bomb in fees which means you can't swap them easily, plus because of the fees its much harder to beat the market. Institutions also tend to favour buying large amounts of safe stocks that have little potential for upside, good active management is rare but not to be underestimated, more often than not fund managers are just rich school graduates with very little knowledge of real economics so most funds are lacklastre and you're better just putting money on an index fund like vanguard - in fact most funds don't beat index funds by much anyways, and often underperform (the calculation to gauge this is called alpha)

I'd be up for a chat if anybody wants to form a little life extension investment group - to not derail this thread.

Here are some stocks i'm following

Disney - owner of lucas art, espn, pixar, marvel, disney research division, lots of land - expensive and growth looks limited since it made huge gains in the past year or so, but it can climb perhaps due to its total ownership of important media content like ESPN.
Berkshire Hathaway - pretty much like a mutual fund with the worlds best manager so its like a fund without the fees - buffet may pass, stock is somewhat expensive
Amgen - price earning ratio of only 14, lots of drugs in the pipeline, could easily go up even more - in fact it has and i'm invested in this one.
Apple - Cheap because people are predicting its demise, price earning ratio of 10 - not really sure about this one, if apple continues shrinking then its still going to go down. (edit: well consider this apple used to trade at PE of 30 before steve died, now its 10, its sitting of shitloads of cash so its in a good financial position, its held back on new products so far, people are assuming tim cook i going to suck, and potentially piss away the money, and if apple revenues continue to shrink so will the price, still one has to think that can a rich innovator like Apple really go down without a fight?)
Neuralstem - could be a "whisper" stock, financials have only been loss so far, but if NSI works it could turn out to be a growth stock, since there is no previous performance this one is a total gamble. Fallen from its high and hasn't recovered since 2008
Citigroup - comeback banking group that looks refreshed, after a huge change in marketing and management.


Phillip Morris - malboro manufacturers - expensive at the moment

There are others. For funds I like franklin and templeton ones since they are low cost. You can look for funds using Bloomberg Black.

Edited by Major Legend, 22 July 2013 - 03:54 PM.

[mettmett]

Any updates on the low cost last Falco? Also, what is you current daily regime. I know you've been testing new things. Has anyone had any luck with the cheap eBay law+co10 supplement?

I wish I could make it out to Georgia for that testing. That 7 hr drive is tempting. Is there a way to find more tests of this sort locally?

Thanks