4029 replies to this topic

[lourdaud]

Wow. They sent back supplements? Holy crap that's strict.

That's Sweden for you. Honestly. If you want booze then its down to the government owned 'Systembolaget'.

Wouldn't surprise me if they sent me the bill for the "clearance" either (standard procedure). None of the supps are restricted here, (I had some theanine, 5-mthf, lion's mane etc apart from the pqq/coq10). You can buy it all domestically if you want to pay 200%. But I can see the customs officer scratching his head after seeing a bunch of pills with strange names from an internet shop called "iHerb" (omg it's drugs)...

IME, orders not exceeding 50 dollars and weighing no more than 2 kg have no problem getting through.

[alpal]

So after further experimentation I've concluded I don't respond well to lllt... If anyone wants my Vetrolaser and goggles in the LA area PM me it'll be cheap.

Really benefitting from tdcs though. Remarkable.

[mettmett]

For those that have read The Machinery of Life or Life's Ratchet, how in depth are they. I'm currently in medical biochemistry and have taken multiple semester of cellular biology/ genetics. I was curious if they would augment my studies or be redundant.

I haven't kept up with this thread for a long time (studies took over). Looks like there is some seriously worthwhile information in here. Anecdotally people seem to be achieving great success from the light therapy. I'll sift through the pages and probably join in on the great journey I could definitely benefit with my crazy workload in medical school.

I did notice someone posted about increased testosterone production of the testes from LLLT. Was that achieved through the same LEDs you advocate using? I guess i'll have to start my own research. :D

Yes dreth, me and a couple others use the led lights on our testes. There aren't any studies or "proof" that it raises testosterone but theoretically it should to a point. Personally I have noticed benefits. I don't irradiate for more than a minute and usually for 20-30 seconds.

I use the 96 led recommended on falco's profile.

[AscendantMind]

So after further experimentation I've concluded I don't respond well to lllt... If anyone wants my Vetrolaser and goggles in the LA area PM me it'll be cheap.

Really benefitting from tdcs though. Remarkable.

For information purposes, could you share more details of what you did and what led you to conclude that it didn't work? Specifically:

How often did you do it and for how long?

Did you add PQQ, CoQ10, and shilajit?

Did you obtain proper amounts of B vitamins and magnesium?

Did you use ALCAR, creatine, alpha-lipoic acid, or rhodiola rosea?

What made you conclude that you don't respond well?

Feel free to ignore the questions if you'd like--I'm just trying to get an understanding of why it works for some people but not others.

Edited by AscendantMind, 27 September 2013 - 12:50 PM.

[lostfalco]

Could you briefly describe where the issue with his vision is?

Yeah. My friend just got back to me. His son's name is Luke and he has Usher's syndrome type 2. I'm looking into it now. If anybody already has knowledge about Usher's feel free to share. =)

[BigPapaChakra]

Hey guys! So I was wondering if (and how) anyone uses the LEDs (or lasers) before/during/after exercise...? I'm thinking about using them today for my weekly weight lifting session. I'm looking through some studies and I can only really extrapolate information from isolated results (such as measuring lactate levels or creatine kinase), but it seems promising. Many of the studies use treatments of 830nm and the LEDs are 850nm, so not far off (unless that actually is a significant difference and I'm flawed in my reasoning, lol). The studies typically show large reductions in lactate levels post exercise, as well as creatine kinase, and often times significant increases in amount of reps achieved (one study showed an increase in over 8 repetitions compared to the control group).

I was thinking about doing 30 second increments at different regions, probably four regions on my quads, basically encapsulating my entire thigh, one or two regions on each glute, and maybe my biceps or something. I was thinking about it at my chest but I have some reservations about that - would it someone penetrate deeply enough to affect any of my organs? That may (or may not) sound outrageous, but I'm just not trying to do anything I haven't seen in a well formed study, or that someone here hasn't tried with success.

Lastly, I also stimulated my pelvic floor, genital area, etc. two nights ago as others have spoken about. I'm wondering what the effects will be. Lol there were definitely some hormetic effects, though, but maybe I over did it. Yesterday, well, it just wasn't completely the same, let's just say it took more effort to do things. It wasn't impossible, but it was more difficult. Today it is back to normal, though, maybe even 'above normal'. I may continue to do it each time I use the LEDs at my head, sporadically through the week. I did it about 10 seconds per spot at like 6 spots down there, starting near the deep pelvic floor (the area that gets tightened if you do kegels).

Before I forget, I'll be posting a bunch of resources to the other threads later. I found some really interesting laser devices I might try and get for my birthday, and a bunch of red light photobiomodulation lectures, interviews, animated videos, books, etc. Some awesome information I'm going to delve into tonight. By the way, everyone should check out Ward Dean's site - he has an extensive mitochondrial series. I haven't looked at it, but I know Falco mentioned him so I decided to look him up, and I think there is a lot to learn. I believe we haven't even touched the surface of what we can do with TULIP (not that it isn't fantastic as is), but maybe I'm getting ahead of myself...

Edited by BigPapaChakra, 27 September 2013 - 06:22 PM.

[AscendantMind]

I look forward to hearing about your results with the LEDs on weight lifting. Certainly something I'd be willing to experiment with at some point.

As for using these on the testes... I wonder if the fact that the testes like being at a different temperature than the rest of the body might be relevant. I'd rather use dietary and behavioral approaches to optimize testosterone, though, so I will leave it to the more adventurous to experiment.

[IggyKoopa]

I just started LEDT after exercise. I usually lift in the morning and don't get a chance to apply the LEDs until after work at night. So far out of the 2 or 3 days it seems to help with soreness(not really long term, just for a little while after application). It's a little too early to tell any other benefits. I've been applying to the region that I worked out that day and any other sore areas, about 30 seconds per area.

lostfalco, since you were asking for everyones updates as well. I'm at around two weeks in now, dropped the time down to 2 minutes per region from 4(that was a little much) and started applying to the whole head rather than just F3 and F4. So far I've noticed a small improvement in mood, but also a little spaciness. The spaciness hasn't seemed to effect my ability to function, it's actually a pleasant feeling most of the time.(I'm not sure if spaciness is the correct term, it's a hard feeling to describe)

[Strangelove]

Could you briefly describe where the issue with his vision is?

Yeah. My friend just got back to me. His son's name is Luke and he has Usher's syndrome type 2. I'm looking into it now. If anybody already has knowledge about Usher's feel free to share. =)

Sorry man, I made extended research for a relative with vision problems for a while, his issues do not fit exactly into a specific profile of vision degeneration and my research was wide, but I am not familiar at all with genetic issues. Hopefully gene therapy would make a difference for his case in the near future.

[lostfalco]

Sorry man, I made extended research for a relative with vision problems for a while, his issues do not fit exactly into a specific profile of vision degeneration and my research was wide, but I am not familiar at all with genetic issues. Hopefully gene therapy would make a difference for his case in the near future.

Yeah, I'm still looking into it. I told him that even if we couldn't save his son's vision there is always Brainport. I'm gonna see what I can figure out though.

http://www.nei.nih.g...weihenmayer.asp
http://assistivetech...heir-Tongue.htm
http://en.wikipedia....aul_Bach-y-Rita

[Strangelove]

Perhaps this is an option too.

http://www.dailymail...wafer-chip.html

Edited by Strangelove, 27 September 2013 - 09:00 PM.

[Raz007]

Ciao guys, this wonderful discussion is getting very long and as a consequence pretty hard to maneuver.. well, just my opinion.

In any case, several of pages ago some user has asked if there's a way to affect inner parts of the brain with the LLLT -
And I recall what I have studied two years ago about neuronal projection point.. and even found a great webpage that illustrate
These particular spots of the brain are used as a key regions for production and delivery of some important neurotransmitters.
So if you're trying to tweak your deeper parts of the brain, aim to these locations (with LLLT) is probably your best chance

( The pics are from this website )

P.s. Please be aware that the nervous systems is very complex array, and won't always react to the LLLT in a
straightforward manner. Especially when we talk about modulation of neurotransmitters, the CNS is known to
utilize it's own means in order to keep internal homeostasis ( e.g. neuromodulators, positive and negative
feedback loop etc.. ). While I do not intend to know exactly what kind of react it will make, I can suggest more
caution when aiming to these area. Do not, try to start with 2 min per spot, just to give it a little push .

Attached Files

•  projection points.png   367.96KB   79 downloads

Edited by Raz007, 28 September 2013 - 04:29 AM.

[Daniel Pratt]

hello lostfalco.

i have been lurking this thread for several months now. i will be starting some type of LLLT protocol within the next couple of weeks. i first want to thank you for all of the amazing work you have done here. second, i have posted a recently published review article below which i hope you will find useful. i would post the full pdf, but that is probably not allowed.

i am currently using
400mg modafinil /day
enough methylene blue to turn my piss light green
wellbutrin 600mg /day

i am feeling quite well at the moment. this is my second run with the MB. the first was two years ago. i do not recall why i stopped, but i wish that i had not. it is incredibly effective and not at all subtle, but it does take several weeks (i am at 5 weeks now) to really "kick in". i am doing a bit of my own research regarding the LLLT and i am not objected to purchasing an expensive device if i feel it will be worth the investment.... so i am going to take some time to survey the devices and wavelengths available.

if i decide to use a protocol or device which has not yet been cataloged in this thread, will be sure to return with my reports

thanks again.
danny
Neurological and psychological applications of transcranial lasers and LEDs

http://www.sciencedi...006295213003833

abstract

Transcranial brain stimulation with low-level light/laser therapy (LLLT) is the use of directional low-power and high-fluency monochromatic or quasimonochromatic light from lasers or LEDs in the red-to-near-infrared wavelengths to modulate a neurobiological function or induce a neurotherapeutic effect in a nondestructive and non-thermal manner. The mechanism of action of LLLT is based on photon energy absorption by cytochrome oxidase, the terminal enzyme in the mitochondrial respiratory chain. Cytochrome oxidase has a key role in neuronal physiology, as it serves as an interface between oxidative energy metabolism and cell survival signaling pathways. Cytochrome oxidase is an ideal target for cognitive enhancement, as its expression reflects the changes in metabolic capacity underlying higher-order brain functions. This review provides an update on new findings on the neurotherapeutic applications of LLLT. The photochemical mechanisms supporting its cognitive-enhancing and brain-stimulatory effects in animal models and humans are discussed. LLLT is a potential non-invasive treatment for cognitive impairment and other deficits associated with chronic neurological conditions, such as large vessel and lacunar hypoperfusion or neurodegeneration. Brain photobiomodulation with LLLT is paralleled by pharmacological effects of low-dose USP methylene blue, a non-photic electron donor with the ability to stimulate cytochrome oxidase activity, redox and free radical processes. Both interventions provide neuroprotection and cognitive enhancement by facilitating mitochondrial respiration, with hormetic dose–response effects and brain region activational specificity. This evidence supports enhancement of mitochondrial respiratory function as a generalizable therapeutic principle relevant to highly adaptable systems that are exquisitely sensitive to energy availability such as the nervous system.

[lostfalco]

hello lostfalco.
i have been lurking this thread for several months now. i will be starting some type of LLLT protocol within the next couple of weeks. i first want to thank you for all of the amazing work you have done here. second, i have posted a recently published review article below which i hope you will find useful. i would post the full pdf, but that is probably not allowed.

Thanks Daniel. I appreciate your kind words man.

The Gonzalez-Lima review is definitely my favorite LLLT article so far. I highly recommend that everybody read it either before or while experimenting with LLLT. I've posted the full pdf here. It's about half way down the page. =) http://www.longecity...1887-lostfalco/

[Daniel Pratt]

hahaha. i should have known that youve already seen it. i have poured over the links on your profile and, quite oddly, that one paper is the only one which i had neglected. looks like i am going to have to work harder to get ahead of the curve around here!

i mentioned that i might buy a more pricey device. well, the one at the following link is (i think) only available to medical professionals and probably an unholy price. but i am interested in the absorption curve that they are associating with this thing. in particular, the U of Texas study lists 1064 nm as a peak of interest. on the image below, this wavelength is associated with hemoglobin and h2o. are you familiar with any other theories about the effectiveness of this wavelength? i suppose penetration is somewhat better at lower frequency?

http://www.k-laserus...ain-med/#loaded

[lostfalco]

Ciao guys, this wonderful discussion is getting very long and as a consequence pretty hard to maneuver.. well, just my opinion.

What's up Raz? Yeah, I agree. The main thread is getting pretty long. I'm working on ways to organize and distill everything a little better. In the meantime, there are three other tulip threads with slightly more specific emphases. =)
1. Research Thread http://www.longecity...biophysics-etc/
2. Experiences Thread http://www.longecity...lf/page__st__30
3. Stacking Thread http://www.longecity...soxygenepo-etc/

[Keynes]

Suppose one has a bacterial infection in the body and uses LEDs/lllt. Logically, since bacteria also have cytochrome c oxidase (like mitochondria), this would improve the bacterias metabolism and help them synthesize ATP. Is this correct? Would this grow the bacteria and worsen the infection?

Just some random thoughts. If this is the case it might stand to reason that people with ongoing infections are worse off from TULIP.

Edited by Keynes, 28 September 2013 - 05:29 PM.

[AscendantMind]

Suppose one has a bacterial infection in the body and uses LEDs/lllt. Logically, since bacteria also have cytochrome c oxidase (like mitochondria), this would improve the bacterias metabolism and help them synthesize ATP. Is this correct? Would this grow the bacteria and worsen the infection?

Just some random thoughts. If this is the case it might stand to reason that people with ongoing infections are worse off from TULIP.

I could be wrong, but I believe bacteria don't generally get in the brain due to the blood-brain barrier. Even if they did, the number of human cells with antibodies that you'd be empowering would far exceed the number of bacteria.

[Keynes]

Suppose one has a bacterial infection in the body and uses LEDs/lllt. Logically, since bacteria also have cytochrome c oxidase (like mitochondria), this would improve the bacterias metabolism and help them synthesize ATP. Is this correct? Would this grow the bacteria and worsen the infection?

Just some random thoughts. If this is the case it might stand to reason that people with ongoing infections are worse off from TULIP.

I could be wrong, but I believe bacteria don't generally get in the brain due to the blood-brain barrier. Even if they did, the number of human cells with antibodies that you'd be empowering would far exceed the number of bacteria.

Well yeah, encephalitis and meningitis are certainly rare. I'll try and find some studies when I get back tonight.

[Daniel Pratt]

bacteria do not use oxidative respiration (the process which produces atp in mitochondria). their metabolism is, in most species, fermentation. fermentation produces ethanol and carbon dioxide. bacterial biomolecular networks will likely be unable to handle the aftermath of absorbing photons into systems which are normally uncharged ....in other words, lllc is likely detrimental to bacteria.

Edited by Daniel Pratt, 28 September 2013 - 09:00 PM.

[BigPapaChakra]

I just started LEDT after exercise. I usually lift in the morning and don't get a chance to apply the LEDs until after work at night. So far out of the 2 or 3 days it seems to help with soreness(not really long term, just for a little while after application). It's a little too early to tell any other benefits. I've been applying to the region that I worked out that day and any other sore areas, about 30 seconds per area.

lostfalco, since you were asking for everyones updates as well. I'm at around two weeks in now, dropped the time down to 2 minutes per region from 4(that was a little much) and started applying to the whole head rather than just F3 and F4. So far I've noticed a small improvement in mood, but also a little spaciness. The spaciness hasn't seemed to effect my ability to function, it's actually a pleasant feeling most of the time.(I'm not sure if spaciness is the correct term, it's a hard feeling to describe)

Hey man! Just from pure observation the other day when I used the LEDs as an adjunct to my weight lifting, as well as skimming three studies on this, I would recommend using the LEDs ASAP before/after exercise, and maybe even try it during exercise. My squats and pull-ups were both MUCH easier yesterday and I used the LEDs on my biceps and quads, so that makes sense. I used them directly before exercise. The studies I read have shown that is how to use them as well, but they all used them for various time lengths. I'd recommend trying it right before exercising if you can, maybe for 30 seconds per spot - that's what I did and anecdotally it seemed to work. I normally do Cold Thermogenesis prior to lifting because this enhances my strength and time to fatigue greatly, so yesterday I omitted that protocol and there was still improvement, so I know it worked (my "time under load" for both squats and pull-ups were increased by more than the typical weekly amount from pure strength gain, and if anything I increased the intensity of the workout; fatigue was greatly reduced as well).

[IggyKoopa]

Hey man! Just from pure observation the other day when I used the LEDs as an adjunct to my weight lifting, as well as skimming three studies on this, I would recommend using the LEDs ASAP before/after exercise, and maybe even try it during exercise. My squats and pull-ups were both MUCH easier yesterday and I used the LEDs on my biceps and quads, so that makes sense. I used them directly before exercise. The studies I read have shown that is how to use them as well, but they all used them for various time lengths. I'd recommend trying it right before exercising if you can, maybe for 30 seconds per spot - that's what I did and anecdotally it seemed to work. I normally do Cold Thermogenesis prior to lifting because this enhances my strength and time to fatigue greatly, so yesterday I omitted that protocol and there was still improvement, so I know it worked (my "time under load" for both squats and pull-ups were increased by more than the typical weekly amount from pure strength gain, and if anything I increased the intensity of the workout; fatigue was greatly reduced as well).

That's what I had gathered from the research. It's a little difficult when going to a normal gym though. I was actually thinking about designing a compact portable unit that I could bring with me. I was looking at surface mount IR LEDs last night, I already have some lipo batteries and some LCDs(for setting the timer) and real time clock chips. I figured I could set it up to have an integrated timer. Has anyone looked into whether pulsed application is more beneficial? I remember reading that in some of the research, but didn't find any info on what duty cycle or interval was better. Just have to learn how to use Eagle or something to make the board layout.

[lostfalco]

Hey guys, I just started a thread on lasers, bioenergetics, and exercise. Let's discuss LEDs, muscle recovery, fat loss, endurance enhancement, injury recovery, etc. over there. There are a ton of studies on pubmed! This should be fun. =) http://www.longecity...s-and-exercise/

[Nattzor]

Now something that is not LLLT related: I used my tDCS unit for the first time yesterday, seems to work great.

[Raz007]

Which tDCS device have you tried?



Btw, if we're already talking about other means of potentiation -
I did try TMS 3 month ago and it has affacted wonderfully on my cognition;
too bad such device is cost like average car :(

Edited by Raz007, 29 September 2013 - 03:52 PM.

[Keynes]

bacteria do not use oxidative respiration (the process which produces atp in mitochondria). their metabolism is, in most species, fermentation. fermentation produces ethanol and carbon dioxide.

Bacterial respiration: a flexible process for a changing environment
http://mic.sgmjourna.../146/3/551.full

Quite a painful read. Very thorough.

There is also some respiratory flexibility in the mitochondria of yeast, filamentous fungi and ancient protozoa, but it is amongst the Bacteria and Archaea that respiratory flexibility can be found at its most extreme. In these organisms, a diverse range of electron acceptors can be utilized including [...] This respiratory diversity can be found amongst pyschrophiles, mesophiles and hyperthermophiles and contributes to the ability of prokaryotes to colonize many of Earth’s most hostile micro-oxic and anoxic environments.

http://en.wikipedia....Obligate_aerobe
http://en.wikipedia....erobic_organism

A gif showing aerobic bacterial respiration.
http://www.microbeli...=goto&link=2725

(I have no idea how to embed it)

There is also lactic acid fermentation that bacteria perform btw. I haven't found any info on what percentage of bacteria that are anaerobic, aerobic or both.

bacterial biomolecular networks will likely be unable to handle the aftermath of absorbing photons into systems which are normally uncharged ....in other words, lllc is likely detrimental to bacteria.

Considering the adaptability and survivability of bacteria I kind of doubt this, but I'd love to be proven otherwise.


In any case this probably wouldn't affect regular tuliping, but it might if you for instance do it intranasally like suggested previously, while having an upper respiratory tract infection. This is all purely speculative, I'll have to add.

[Nattzor]

Which tDCS device have you tried?



Btw, if we're already talking about other means of potentiation -
I did try TMS 3 month ago and it has affacted wonderfully on my cognition;
too bad such device is cost like average car :(

I used this - http://tdcs-kit.com/ (because it's cheap).

I would love to use or atleast try TMS, but costs waaaaaaay more than tDCS.

[h2o]

Btw, if we're already talking about other means of potentiation -
I did try TMS 3 month ago and it has affacted wonderfully on my cognition;
too bad such device is cost like average car :(

A few years ago, I was planning on spending $14,000 on TMS but I ended up not going through it. Would you say it was worth it? How long do the effects of TMS last?

[h2o]

This guy made his own DIY TMS:

[Raz007]

The effect has lasted a day or so- in which I could actually sense improvement in the working memory and the meta-cognition (thinking about your own thought)

I don't think however it worth the huge investment - simply because there's other much more cost-effective stimulation methods (LLLT, tDCS, ECT ) that need to be exhausted before thinking about such a massive expanse