4029 replies to this topic

[h2o]

The effect has lasted a day or so- in which I could actually sense improvement in the working memory and the meta-cognition (thinking about your own thought)

I don't think however it worth the huge investment - simply because there's other much more cost-effective stimulation methods (LLLT, tDCS, ECT ) that need to be exhausted before thinking about such a massive expanse

Thanks for the reply Raz. You are right. I don't think the massive cost of TMS justifies its benefits which seem to only be temporary. I am so glad I didn't make the investment back then. LLLT and tDCS are relatively cheap because they can be administered at home. Anything that needs to be done professionally is going to cost an arm and leg.

You also mentioned ECT. I would stay away from ECT at all costs unless you have suicidal depression because it has been known to worsen cognition and memory (amnesia) rather than have any type of enhancement.

[Raz007]

Yes Yes, excuse me- I meant CES
you can see it here ( 7:55 )

Edited by Raz007, 29 September 2013 - 07:16 PM.

[lostfalco]

Great full text article on the discovery of ATP (and purines) as a major neurotransmitter. http://www.longecity...tc/#entry614711

[lostfalco]

That's what I had gathered from the research. It's a little difficult when going to a normal gym though. I was actually thinking about designing a compact portable unit that I could bring with me. I was looking at surface mount IR LEDs last night, I already have some lipo batteries and some LCDs(for setting the timer) and real time clock chips. I figured I could set it up to have an integrated timer. Has anyone looked into whether pulsed application is more beneficial? I remember reading that in some of the research, but didn't find any info on what duty cycle or interval was better. Just have to learn how to use Eagle or something to make the board layout.

Here are a couple of articles on pulsed LLLT. It seems that pulsed and continuous are both effective but pulsed might be a little better. It's still kind of an ongoing debate.

Review of Pulsed LLLT
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2933784/

Pulsing LLLT in TBI: 810nm, 10Hz, 100Hz, and continuous
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3196530/

Edited by lostfalco, 30 September 2013 - 03:12 AM.

[chris106]

Really bizarre shipping policies; I have just checked that seller and also every other "Worldwide" seller listed on ebay (all of them either from China or Hong Kong) and all of them exclude shipping to "Russian Federation, Austria, Belarus, Cyprus, Estonia, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Switzerland, United Kingdom" which is pretty baffling...

Baffling indeed, but nothing out of the oridanry, sadly.

Living in a custom-crazy country like Germany (or Sweden) is really a pain if it comes to nootropic experiments - this goes for ordering most supplements as well. It's practically impossible to order from iherbs without major problems, for example..

Anyways, I'm going to finally try TULIP later this month. Should I find another source for the LEDs that actually ships to Germany and other european countries, I'll let you guys know!

[BigPapaChakra]

Hey guys, wanted to post this amazing video via Ben Greenfield: http://www.youtube.c...u7CUXkDfs#t=836
This was more or less a laboratory controlled case study involving the creator of the Cool Fat Burner Vest - increased RMR by 301%. Also, faster entry to ketosis, and increased insulin sensitivity and glucose clearing. If anyone knows of Vasper, I'm thinking of re-creating that via High Intensity Resistance Training (similar to Ray/Mike Mentzer protocols, Body By Science, Ellington Darden, and others) or sprints while wearing a CFB and Gut Buster in a cold room/environment.

[lostfalco]

Hey guys, wanted to post this amazing video via Ben Greenfield: http://www.youtube.c...u7CUXkDfs#t=836
This was more or less a laboratory controlled case study involving the creator of the Cool Fat Burner Vest - increased RMR by 301%. Also, faster entry to ketosis, and increased insulin sensitivity and glucose clearing. If anyone knows of Vasper, I'm thinking of re-creating that via High Intensity Resistance Training (similar to Ray/Mike Mentzer protocols, Body By Science, Ellington Darden, and others) or sprints while wearing a CFB and Gut Buster in a cold room/environment.

Hey what's up Papa? Thanks for all your research man. I went ahead and started an exercise discussion thread just to keep things more manageable on this thread. Are you cool with being the inaugural poster over there? There is a lot to talk about. http://www.longecity...s-and-exercise/

[BigPapaChakra]

Headed there now!

[lostfalco]

Headed there now!

Cool. Thanks man!

[Nattzor]

Yes Yes, excuse me- I meant CES
you can see it here ( 7:55 )

Has anyone replicated Dave's experiment with 2-3 hours of sleep for a few days and functioning normal with CES?

Living in a custom-crazy country like Germany (or Sweden) is really a pain if it comes to nootropic experiments - this goes for ordering most supplements as well. It's practically impossible to order from iherbs without major problems, for example..

Anyways, I'm going to finally try TULIP later this month. Should I find another source for the LEDs that actually ships to Germany and other european countries, I'll let you guys know!

Sweden has been no problem for me, I've ordered a few things that is not legal here. Got a friend with the same experience, except when he ordered from India.

Edited by Nattzor, 30 September 2013 - 12:39 PM.

[scitris]

short offtopic: chris106, Im from Germany too but i never had problems ordering within the countries of "schengener Abkommen" or within europe. My main source of nootropics etc is UK. If you want some links/sources PM me.
have a nice day

[Noottropics7]

Hi Everyone,

Wow, I am very impressed with your contributions here. I thank you profusely for opening my eyes to maybe try a tulip regimen. Especial thanks, of course, go to LF.

I have a question for you guys. Do you guys think it's safe to use tDCS and LLT on the same day, same week? I believe that tDCS works and is safe. And I will definitely be using it. This threads and the other ones on Tulip make me want to try LLT now too. I know that no studies have been made on this question, but sharing any ideas you may have on this would be welcomed.

Second, assuming it's not prudent to do them both on the same day, would, say, a schedule that looks as follows be both EFFECTIVE and safe:

Monday: tDCS
Tuesday: tDCS
Wednesday: LLT
Thursday: tDCS
Friday: tDCS
Saturday: LLT
Sunday: LLT

I am looking for the mininal necessary dose that would be effective usings these tools. It has been shown that tDCS is effective after use for 5 consecutive days. Do you think 4 days, non-consecutively, as delineated above would also be effective? (Yes, I know, whatever you say will only be opinions, but I still want to hear them and the reason(s) behind them).

It seems from what LF has written that doing LLT three times a week could also be effective too. Is this correct?

Anyways guys, please share your thoughts. I really look forward to them.

Thanks in advance!!!

[lostfalco]

For those with TBI, CTE, a history of concussions, etc. Just something to think about trying. I think some of us may have heard of this before. =)

Blockbuster concussion treatment may heal brain

Treatment being tested at Boston hospitals

http://www.wcvb.com/...vk/-/index.html

Quotes
BOSTON —Experts are excited about the potential for a blockbuster concussion treatment. It would be the first of its kind.
“The potential is enormous, both for young athletes as well as our nation’s military,” said Dr. Ross Zafonte, professor and chairman of physical medicine and rehabilitation and vice president of medical affairs, research, and education at the Spaulding Rehabilitation Network.
“Turns out the skull is translucent, meaning you can shine light through it and by shining a light in the right spectrum on the cells of the brain, we hope to improve memory and improve the ability to learn after concussion,” said Dr. Bill Meehan, a director of the Sports Concussion Clinic at Boston Children’s Hospital.
Post-concussion, the brain needs more energy, too. Near-infrared light could be the key. “The light may aid us in producing a bit more and fixing that energy disregulation,” said Zafonte.

Edited by lostfalco, 30 September 2013 - 06:21 PM.

[AscendantMind]

For those with TBI, CTE, a history of concussions, etc. Just something to think about trying. I think some of us may have heard of this before. =)

What an amazing new idea!

Speaking seriously, though, it is good to see the idea gain traction.

On another note: I find it unfortunate that it seems to be politically correct for researchers to only develop "cures" or "treatments" for disease--and that almost everything they develop has to be phrased that way--rather than simply going directly after the enhancement and augmentation of human abilities. I have nothing against curing disease, of course, but I think improving the lives of "healthy people" has just as much, if not more, potential to make the world a better place.

I suppose the exception to this type of political correctness is exercise and sports, where enhancing athletic performance is perfectly acceptable, but even there many performance enhancers are banned by rule if not law. But in the world of cognition, researchers and journalists seem to be afraid to speak of enhancement (unless you're funded by DARPA).

[stephen_b]

Since this thread is heavy on the mitochondrial biogenesis and health, I'm surprised that C60 in olive oil hasn't come up. Any thoughts on whether it might be a nice addition to the protocol?

[lostfalco]

Hi Everyone,

Wow, I am very impressed with your contributions here. I thank you profusely for opening my eyes to maybe try a tulip regimen. Especial thanks, of course, go to LF.

I have a question for you guys. Do you guys think it's safe to use tDCS and LLT on the same day, same week? I believe that tDCS works and is safe. And I will definitely be using it. This threads and the other ones on Tulip make me want to try LLT now too. I know that no studies have been made on this question, but sharing any ideas you may have on this would be welcomed.

Second, assuming it's not prudent to do them both on the same day, would, say, a schedule that looks as follows be both EFFECTIVE and safe:

Monday: tDCS
Tuesday: tDCS
Wednesday: LLT
Thursday: tDCS
Friday: tDCS
Saturday: LLT
Sunday: LLT

I am looking for the mininal necessary dose that would be effective usings these tools. It has been shown that tDCS is effective after use for 5 consecutive days. Do you think 4 days, non-consecutively, as delineated above would also be effective? (Yes, I know, whatever you say will only be opinions, but I still want to hear them and the reason(s) behind them).

It seems from what LF has written that doing LLT three times a week could also be effective too. Is this correct?

Anyways guys, please share your thoughts. I really look forward to them.

Thanks in advance!!!

Thanks Noot7. I/we appreciate it. (sorry, don't mean to speak for all contributors. =))

My personal opinion here is that I wouldn't combine them simply because it hasn't been tested (to my knowledge) AND we don't know tDCS's mechanism of action.

Wild speculation alert...I actually think that tDCS *might work by 1. adding energy to the electron transport chain 2. thereby pumping more protons into the intermembrane space 3. thereby creating a stronger gradient 4. thereby creating more ATP.
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Chemiosmosis

This would explain why the effects linger after the electrodes are turned off (extra ATP is created and then slowly used), why learning occurs faster, why it helps with depression, etc. Just an idea. Last I checked (a few months ago) there was no accepted moa for tDCS. Is this still the case?

Yeah, 3 days/wk can be very effective. Here are my provisional recommendations. =) http://www.longecity...1887-lostfalco/

Edited by lostfalco, 01 October 2013 - 02:14 AM.

[lostfalco]

For those with TBI, CTE, a history of concussions, etc. Just something to think about trying. I think some of us may have heard of this before. =)

What an amazing new idea! ;)

The photons made me say it. =)

[lostfalco]

Now something that is not LLLT related: I used my tDCS unit for the first time yesterday, seems to work great.

Very cool Nattzor. I did just tDCS for 3 years. It's one of my favorite brain enhancement techniques. I've got this guy though I haven't used it in a while. http://www.scriphess...horesis-device/

[lostfalco]

Hey man! Just from pure observation the other day when I used the LEDs as an adjunct to my weight lifting, as well as skimming three studies on this, I would recommend using the LEDs ASAP before/after exercise, and maybe even try it during exercise. My squats and pull-ups were both MUCH easier yesterday and I used the LEDs on my biceps and quads, so that makes sense. I used them directly before exercise. The studies I read have shown that is how to use them as well, but they all used them for various time lengths. I'd recommend trying it right before exercising if you can, maybe for 30 seconds per spot - that's what I did and anecdotally it seemed to work. I normally do Cold Thermogenesis prior to lifting because this enhances my strength and time to fatigue greatly, so yesterday I omitted that protocol and there was still improvement, so I know it worked (my "time under load" for both squats and pull-ups were increased by more than the typical weekly amount from pure strength gain, and if anything I increased the intensity of the workout; fatigue was greatly reduced as well).

Yup. My subjective experience as well Papa. I second the recommendation to do it as close to your workout (before/during/after) as possible. I've had really good results lasering between sets (at home, of course). I'd recommend checking pubmed for details...and please share what you guys find in the exercise thread (if you are so inclined). =) http://www.longecity...s-and-exercise/

lostfalco, since you were asking for everyones updates as well. I'm at around two weeks in now, dropped the time down to 2 minutes per region from 4(that was a little much) and started applying to the whole head rather than just F3 and F4. So far I've noticed a small improvement in mood, but also a little spaciness. The spaciness hasn't seemed to effect my ability to function, it's actually a pleasant feeling most of the time.(I'm not sure if spaciness is the correct term, it's a hard feeling to describe)

Thanks for the update Iggy! Are you lasering before bed? Supplements?

[lostfalco]

For those that have read The Machinery of Life or Life's Ratchet, how in depth are they. I'm currently in medical biochemistry and have taken multiple semester of cellular biology/ genetics. I was curious if they would augment my studies or be redundant.

I haven't kept up with this thread for a long time (studies took over). Looks like there is some seriously worthwhile information in here. Anecdotally people seem to be achieving great success from the light therapy. I'll sift through the pages and probably join in on the great journey :) I could definitely benefit with my crazy workload in medical school.

I did notice someone posted about increased testosterone production of the testes from LLLT. Was that achieved through the same LEDs you advocate using? I guess i'll have to start my own research. :D

Hey, what's up dreth? It's been a while man.

If you understand chemiosmosis, ATP synthase, proton-motive force, electron transport, membrane gradients, myosin, kinesin, actin, dynein, photoelectrons, chemical bonding, energy transformation/conversion, lipids, aminos, nucleotides, enzymes, epigenetics, transcription factors, etc. then you're good. I'm guessing that multiple semesters/med school classes are sufficient. It would be awesome if someone with your background joined in this discussion! Please feel free to share/critique anything. =)

[Noottropics7]

Thanks Noot7. I/we appreciate it. (sorry, don't mean to speak for all contributors. =))

My personal opinion here is that I wouldn't combine them simply because it hasn't been tested (to my knowledge) AND we don't know tDCS's mechanism of action.

Wild speculation alert...I actually think that tDCS *might work by 1. adding energy to the electron transport chain 2. thereby pumping more protons into the intermembrane space 3. thereby creating a stronger gradient 4. thereby creating more ATP.
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Chemiosmosis

This would explain why the effects linger after the electrodes are turned off (extra ATP is created and then slowly used), why learning occurs faster, why it helps with depression, etc. Just an idea. Last I checked (a few months ago) there was no accepted moa for tDCS. Is this still the case?

Yeah, 3 days/wk can be very effective. Here are my provisional recommendations. =) http://www.longecity...1887-lostfalco/

Hi LF, thanks for your comments. So now I am not sure what to do. tDCS seems to be work and safe based upon a lot of experiments, but you guys seem to have had great results using LLLT + Tulip, so I kind of find myself in a quandary. I guess maybe I will try to rotate them and see what happens.

I am not sure by what you mean by "moa for tDCS," but there seems to be general consensus what different montages of tDCS are good for. See this article

http://www.mindalive.../article 11.pdf

which gives a good overview of where tDCS is now and what the more popular montages are.

I believe that you said that you did tDCS at some point in the past, did you find it way less effective than LLLT + Tulip for cognitive enhancement purposes?

[IggyKoopa]

lostfalco, since you were asking for everyones updates as well. I'm at around two weeks in now, dropped the time down to 2 minutes per region from 4(that was a little much) and started applying to the whole head rather than just F3 and F4. So far I've noticed a small improvement in mood, but also a little spaciness. The spaciness hasn't seemed to effect my ability to function, it's actually a pleasant feeling most of the time.(I'm not sure if spaciness is the correct term, it's a hard feeling to describe)

Thanks for the update Iggy! Are you lasering before bed? Supplements?

Lasering before bed. The spaciness isn't every day, it tends to happen in the morning if it's going to, and lasts about 2 or 3 hours.

Currently I'm taking:
Oxyracetam 800mg
Rhodiola 500mg
Fish oil (want to find one with a better DHA ratio)
LE CoQ10 200mg
LE PQQ 20mg
Bitter Melon
selegiline 1.25mg
Kanna sublingual (may replace with artichoke or zembrin)
Creatine 5gm
Detonate 1 pill (probably going to stop this because the whole Eth controversy, I haven't noticed any adverse side effects though)

I also take the preworkout drink Assault

[Nattzor]

I am not sure by what you mean by "moa for tDCS," but there seems to be general consensus what different montages of tDCS are good for. See this article

http://www.mindalive.../article 11.pdf

which gives a good overview of where tDCS is now and what the more popular montages are.

MoA means mechanism of action, nothing about electrode placement.

I'd go for LLLT EoD and tDCS when needed.

[Raz007]

lostfalco, since you were asking for everyones updates as well. I'm at around two weeks in now, dropped the time down to 2 minutes per region from 4(that was a little much) and started applying to the whole head rather than just F3 and F4. So far I've noticed a small improvement in mood, but also a little spaciness. The spaciness hasn't seemed to effect my ability to function, it's actually a pleasant feeling most of the time.(I'm not sure if spaciness is the correct term, it's a hard feeling to describe)

Thanks for the update Iggy! Are you lasering before bed? Supplements?

Lasering before bed. The spaciness isn't every day, it tends to happen in the morning if it's going to, and lasts about 2 or 3 hours.

Currently I'm taking:
Oxyracetam 800mg
Rhodiola 500mg
Fish oil (want to find one with a better DHA ratio)
LE CoQ10 200mg
LE PQQ 20mg
Bitter Melon
selegiline 1.25mg
Kanna sublingual (may replace with artichoke or zembrin)
Creatine 5gm
Detonate 1 pill (probably going to stop this because the whole Eth controversy, I haven't noticed any adverse side effects though)

I also take the preworkout drink Assault

Hey IggyKoopa, I've found your stack quite interesting. Excuse me for my possible ignorance- but could
you please elaborate a little more about Kanna ( what factor does it suppose to tackle ? & why have you choose this
method of administration ?, what Dosage do you use & what is the effect experienced ?) ; And what is this Detonate ?.. I believe it might've some other name, as I didn't manage to google it properly

Edited by Raz007, 01 October 2013 - 10:45 AM.

[IggyKoopa]

Hey IggyKoopa, I've found your stack quite interesting. Excuse me for my possible ignorance- but could
you please elaborate a little more about Kanna ( what factor does it suppose to tackle ? & why have you choose this
method of administration ?, what Dosage do you use & what is the effect experienced ?) ; And what is this Detonate ?.. I believe it might've some other name, as I didn't manage to google it properly

Forgot to add ALCAR 500mg.

Kanna improves your mood and decreases anxiety and stress. It is an SSRI and PDE4 inhibitor. I don't dose precisely, I just grab a pinch (maybe 50mg?) and put it under my tongue. It's supposed to be better absorbed that way than orally. I'm considering replacing it with zembrin(an extract from Kanna) or Artichoke because it has a pretty short duration, only an hour or two. I only take it once about every other day.

I also just ordered some uridine to try out the Happy-TULIP stack since Lostfalco has had good results with it.

Detonate is from Gaspari. It is for weight loss and energy. There is some controversy with it due to several drug tests showing that it contains ethamphetamine, I'm considering stopping when this bottle runs out. Either way I should take a break from it because I'm not noticing the increased energy and drive from it anymore (been taking it about 3 months).

Edited by IggyKoopa, 01 October 2013 - 11:03 AM.

[Raz007]

Thanks a lot man, I might give this Kanna a try. just as cheap as Artichoke extract , could be a nice addition.

[IggyKoopa]

No problem. If you are already taking artichoke I would alternate them, they are both PDE4 inhibitors and over on the CILTEP page most people reported they weren't good to take together.

[zawy]

I've played with an LED helmet shining onto my head.  See my video below.  

[Nattzor]

Just a random thought about LLLT.

Assuming Endosymbiotic Theory is right, can the reason LLLT work be because the mitochondria used the sunlight as energy? Do we have any info about this? This is quite irrelevant and probably worthless, but feel free to post.

[middpanther88]

tl;dr--did we decide if you can take the TULIP supps multiple times/day?