4029 replies to this topic

[BigPapaChakra]

For what it's worth, I experienced something interesting today. Last night, lateee at night (a little before 3am) I used the LEDs, again at F3/4 (or roughly those regions) for a little over 2 minutes each, maybe 2 minutes and 15 seconds. I went to bed shortly after, only to be awoken by my phone going off from receiving a text - this occurred at about about 7:50am. I fell asleep roughly around 3:30am. I thought it would be wise to just sleep in, but as I tried, it was impossible. I was just wide awake (well not wide awake, but awake enough that it would've taken me two hours just to try and get the extra two hours of sleep I thought I needed, lol). I'm loosely following the LeptinRx, and I decided screw it, time for breakfast. After breakfast I still felt energetic so I went for a nice long barefoot stroll in the sun. Roughly 4 hours asleep and I felt absolutely fine. To put it differently, I felt like how I would normally feel if I had a long day followed by an intense workout and then only got roughly 6 hours of sleep - I'm alert and awake, but if I only had gotten one more hour of sleep I'd be perfect. That's how I feel now, only, I had a long day and got four hours of sleep. I've been trying to avoid coffee at all costs unless I could somehow manage to get the money to get Upgraded Coffee, but I fell for some Starbuck's today, and now I feel like I regained that figurative extra hour that would make me feel even better.

This coincided with what someone posted recently, stating that they woke up alert and focused after about four and a half hours of sleep. This really has me thinking about some things I've been reading. A lot of people that follow Dr. Ray Peat believe that cytochrome oxidase loses its function as darkness is set upon us. I don't know yet if that is or is not true (and how that affects mitochondria while sleeping). So, many of the 'Peaters/Peatarians' use red lights on their feet or over their body while they sleep to still stimulate cytochrome oxidase. I'm wondering if doing LLLT directly before sleep is essentially doing the same thing, and thus what can allow one to wake up alert even though they have slept even less than before. I definitely want to look into this - maybe there are some sleep hacks that can be accomplished with this..?

[lostfalco]

For what it's worth, I experienced something interesting today. Last night, lateee at night (a little before 3am) I used the LEDs, again at F3/4 (or roughly those regions) for a little over 2 minutes each, maybe 2 minutes and 15 seconds. I went to bed shortly after, only to be awoken by my phone going off from receiving a text - this occurred at about about 7:50am. I fell asleep roughly around 3:30am. I thought it would be wise to just sleep in, but as I tried, it was impossible. I was just wide awake (well not wide awake, but awake enough that it would've taken me two hours just to try and get the extra two hours of sleep I thought I needed, lol). I'm loosely following the LeptinRx, and I decided screw it, time for breakfast. After breakfast I still felt energetic so I went for a nice long barefoot stroll in the sun. Roughly 4 hours asleep and I felt absolutely fine. To put it differently, I felt like how I would normally feel if I had a long day followed by an intense workout and then only got roughly 6 hours of sleep - I'm alert and awake, but if I only had gotten one more hour of sleep I'd be perfect. That's how I feel now, only, I had a long day and got four hours of sleep. I've been trying to avoid coffee at all costs unless I could somehow manage to get the money to get Upgraded Coffee, but I fell for some Starbuck's today, and now I feel like I regained that figurative extra hour that would make me feel even better.

This coincided with what someone posted recently, stating that they woke up alert and focused after about four and a half hours of sleep. This really has me thinking about some things I've been reading. A lot of people that follow Dr. Ray Peat believe that cytochrome oxidase loses its function as darkness is set upon us. I don't know yet if that is or is not true (and how that affects mitochondria while sleeping). So, many of the 'Peaters/Peatarians' use red lights on their feet or over their body while they sleep to still stimulate cytochrome oxidase. I'm wondering if doing LLLT directly before sleep is essentially doing the same thing, and thus what can allow one to wake up alert even though they have slept even less than before. I definitely want to look into this - maybe there are some sleep hacks that can be accomplished with this..?

Yeah Papa, I think there are some very interesting things going on with sleep here. I don't usually like to talk about things until I've been experimenting or testing them for a while...but what hell. =) Aarfai and I have both been experiencing less and less of a need for sleep. He's down to about 4 hours and I'm down to about 5. I feel amazing when I wake up and my body seems to want to wake me up at 4am. It's been very consistent. I have some theories about this, but I need to research more before I feel good writing about it. I'm also off modafinil right now and currently don't even feel like I need it anymore. I'm very interested to see how long this holds up...I was on it for an entire year straight. I will gladly get rid of it though if I don't need it...it's kind of expensive. ha

An experiment I tried during my cross country drive was this...when I got extremely tired (after 10 hours of straight driving), I stopped, ate some food, used the Vetro on my entire brain, napped for 20-30 minutes, woke up, took the TULIP supps, and started driving. After about 10 to 20 minutes I felt as though I had just slept an entire night. In fact, I stayed awake for 12 more hours and it just felt like a normal day. In about 50 hours total, I slept a total of maybe 2 hours and felt great. My body actually got a little tired but my brain felt perfectly fine. Kinda cool.

Now to be fair...once I finally slept it was for 13 hours. It's not like sleep is unnecessary or something. Anyway, just an anecdote. Take it for what it's worth and keep your critical thinking faculties cranked up as always. =)

btw Papa...I'm really glad to hear that your hppd still seems to be under control and that your mood, emotions, and thinking are doing great. That is super exciting news!

Edited by lostfalco, 12 September 2013 - 07:50 PM.

[BigPapaChakra]

For what it's worth, I experienced something interesting today. Last night, lateee at night (a little before 3am) I used the LEDs, again at F3/4 (or roughly those regions) for a little over 2 minutes each, maybe 2 minutes and 15 seconds. I went to bed shortly after, only to be awoken by my phone going off from receiving a text - this occurred at about about 7:50am. I fell asleep roughly around 3:30am. I thought it would be wise to just sleep in, but as I tried, it was impossible. I was just wide awake (well not wide awake, but awake enough that it would've taken me two hours just to try and get the extra two hours of sleep I thought I needed, lol). I'm loosely following the LeptinRx, and I decided screw it, time for breakfast. After breakfast I still felt energetic so I went for a nice long barefoot stroll in the sun. Roughly 4 hours asleep and I felt absolutely fine. To put it differently, I felt like how I would normally feel if I had a long day followed by an intense workout and then only got roughly 6 hours of sleep - I'm alert and awake, but if I only had gotten one more hour of sleep I'd be perfect. That's how I feel now, only, I had a long day and got four hours of sleep. I've been trying to avoid coffee at all costs unless I could somehow manage to get the money to get Upgraded Coffee, but I fell for some Starbuck's today, and now I feel like I regained that figurative extra hour that would make me feel even better.

This coincided with what someone posted recently, stating that they woke up alert and focused after about four and a half hours of sleep. This really has me thinking about some things I've been reading. A lot of people that follow Dr. Ray Peat believe that cytochrome oxidase loses its function as darkness is set upon us. I don't know yet if that is or is not true (and how that affects mitochondria while sleeping). So, many of the 'Peaters/Peatarians' use red lights on their feet or over their body while they sleep to still stimulate cytochrome oxidase. I'm wondering if doing LLLT directly before sleep is essentially doing the same thing, and thus what can allow one to wake up alert even though they have slept even less than before. I definitely want to look into this - maybe there are some sleep hacks that can be accomplished with this..?

Yeah Papa, I think there are some very interesting things going on with sleep here. I don't usually like to talk about things until I've been experimenting or testing them for a while...but what hell. =) Aarfai and I have both been experiencing less and less of a need for sleep. He's down to about 4 hours and I'm down to about 5. I feel amazing when I wake up and my body seems to want to wake me up at 4am. It's been very consistent. I have some theories about this, but I need to research more before I feel good writing about it. I'm also off modafinil right now and currently don't even feel like I need it anymore. I'm very interested to see how long this holds up...I was on it for an entire year straight. I will gladly get rid of it though if I don't need it...it's kind of expensive. ha

An experiment I tried during my cross country drive was this...when I got extremely tired (after 10 hours of straight driving), I stopped, ate some food, used the Vetro on my entire brain, napped for 20-30 minutes, woke up, took the TULIP supps, and started driving. After about 10 to 20 minutes I felt as though I had just slept an entire night. In fact, I stayed awake for 12 more hours and it just felt like a normal day. In about 50 hours total, I slept a total of maybe 2 hours and felt great. My body actually got a little tired but my brain felt perfectly fine. Kinda cool.

Now to be fair...once I finally slept it was for 13 hours. It's not like sleep is unnecessary or something. Anyway, just an anecdote. Take it for what it's worth and keep your critical thinking faculties cranked up as always. =)

btw Papa...I'm really glad to hear that your hppd still seems to be under control and that your mood, emotions, and thinking are doing great. That is super exciting news!

Yeah, I currently have some thoughts on why sleep needs may be reduced. I'm creating a LARGE Evernote file solely on mitochondria, and I'm making another on Cytochrome Oxidase. After I go and re-read some of the things I found I'll post them in the research thread. I think it has to do with ATP/ADP and Cytochrome Oxidase's functions roaring through the night. I don't know if there is a link between mitochondrial biogenesis and autophagy, but to my not so vast knowledge on autophagy, sleep greatly brings the process on/enhances it. If there is a link between mitochondria and Cytochrome Oxidase and energy production to autophagy, I'd bet we are greatly enhancing our sleep 'efficiency', or, at least the deep restorative portion of sleep. Anecdotally, Although I slept for very little time, I still had my usual dreams. Ever since I first got into a lot of spiritual practices, before, during, and after the occurrence of HPPD, my dreams have gotten almost hyper realistic. My memory of them is fantastic (no need for a dream journal), and I have a variety of dreams in one night with vague but definable beginning and endpoints. Regardless of my shortened sleep last night, I still had multiple, vivid, near-lucid dreams. I felt rested upon waking and still to this point. So, I'm assuming I entered both the deep-restorative phase, and the REM/dream phase. So, what's happening? Is the 'light sleep' cycles being knocked out, or, are the sleep cycles being shortened? Maybe something else entirely? After I re-read these articles and look at the associated cites, I'll post them to the research thread and maybe that will give us some clues.

Also, another thing I noticed today. Normally, the visual aspects of my HPPD are largely increased if I don't get a full nights rest. I've also noticed that since the onset of my symptoms, I went from routinely getting and needing around 6-7 hours of sleep at most, to needing 8-9 to feel fine, sometimes more to feel 'normal'. Well, as I've stated, I got very little sleep last night, not only did I feel fine, but the visual symptoms I have that normally become exacerbated by minor sleep deprivation were barely increased at all, maybe they weren't increased above baseline at all. I can't really tell, but regardless that's a positive because normally if I had slept even 5 hours, then I'd be in a very 'trippy' head space; Visual HPPD symptoms largely increased, increased anxiety, less focus, etc. So even if my recent gains were neutral in terms of visual symptoms, they were positive due to the context of less sleep. I'm really hoping these effects continue to stack up.

I'm going to hold off until Sunday or Monday and see how things remain. Tuesday I start one of my courses that I'm actually taking on campus - before TULIP, I was honestly scared I would end up switching out of the class for an online version, I had no confidence in my ability to control my own state of consciousness, and thought there was a large probability that I would freak out at school for no apparent reason unless I did extended sessions with the BreathSlim directly before class and did intermittent Buteyko breathing or Dr. Peat style relaxed bag breathing through class. Now, I'm feeling more confident. I'm even going 'exploring' - when going on long walks I'm looking for new roads and paths to explore, because that possibly stimulates brain growth as it is, as well as increasing metabolism. Regardless, I wouldn't have done that two weeks ago - the further I would get from home, the place where I felt secure, the more anxious I would get leading to repetitive senseless thought processes. Now that is greatly reduced.

Any 'price hacks' on any of the supplements? I feel as though the new mitochondria I'm growing coupled with sporadic uses of the laser will hold me over (and still improve my cognition/emotions?) even as I run out of the TULIP supplements, but I'd definitely like to have at least some to potentiate this. I was thinking that even just CoQ10 would greatly enhance TULIP, and I've seen some discussions stating that Ubiquinone is just as useful as Ubiquinol, so that would be a large save. I'm going to start blinding myself as best as I can with the help of my fiance and mom, so I can 'quantify' this better.

[lostfalco]

Any 'price hacks' on any of the supplements? I feel as though the new mitochondria I'm growing coupled with sporadic uses of the laser will hold me over (and still improve my cognition/emotions?) even as I run out of the TULIP supplements, but I'd definitely like to have at least some to potentiate this. I was thinking that even just CoQ10 would greatly enhance TULIP, and I've seen some discussions stating that Ubiquinone is just as useful as Ubiquinol, so that would be a large save. I'm going to start blinding myself as best as I can with the help of my fiance and mom, so I can 'quantify' this better.

Yeah, there are some definite possibilities for cheaper versions of the TULIP supps. I'll post over in the 'stacking' thread within the next two hours. =)

[Nattzor]

BigPapaChakra: I've posted a bit about sleep, there's some evidence it might help, but way too inclusive from what I've found. There's evidence with ATP-regeneration and sleep, but also lack of evidence of adenosine being removed.

http://www.longecity...tc/#entry610278
http://www.longecity...tc/#entry610435

[BigPapaChakra]

Looking forward to it, Falco!

Thanks to you too, Nattzor - I saw you post those links but didn't end up looking at them. I definitely will today. I've also got some links to post later today, too. I've also heard of either ATP or AMP being used to refill glycogen during the night, if mitochondria are functioning properly - but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me, because even a short overnight fast of even 10-12 hours starts depleting liver glycogen, and many people wake up with very mild levels of circulating ketones even if they don't eat a low carb diet, let alone a full blown ketogenic diet. I have to investigate that, as well as Cytochrome Oxidases activity throughout the night. I have a lot of research to do, lol.

[lostfalco]

Looking forward to it, Falco!

Thanks to you too, Nattzor - I saw you post those links but didn't end up looking at them. I definitely will today. I've also got some links to post later today, too. I've also heard of either ATP or AMP being used to refill glycogen during the night, if mitochondria are functioning properly - but that doesn't make a lot of sense to me, because even a short overnight fast of even 10-12 hours starts depleting liver glycogen, and many people wake up with very mild levels of circulating ketones even if they don't eat a low carb diet, let alone a full blown ketogenic diet. I have to investigate that, as well as Cytochrome Oxidases activity throughout the night. I have a lot of research to do, lol.

Hey Papa, posted here. Just some suggestions to look into. =)
http://www.longecity...tc/#entry611533

[Potent]

So my 96 LED ebay array came into today, and I was eager to try it. CILTEP earlier that morning. Used it on approx. 12 EEG spots on my head for 5 minutes each. 300 mg CoQ + 20 mg PQQ. ~5g Creatinine after a work-out later.

Definitely felt an odd anti-depressant effect, as I was smiling and feeling good for no reason at times. However, I felt a bit spaced out and not totally myself after TULIP. After dinner, I felt a little depressed, but pretty sure it's situational. Didn't have a chance to do much studying today.

Overall, no problems with CILTEP + LEDs, but not exactly was I was looking for. However, I know it's just the first day, and am happy that I felt something. Will continue, tweak regimen, and report back if I obtain good results.

Edited by Potent, 13 September 2013 - 04:01 AM.

[abelard lindsay]

So my 96 LED ebay array came into today, and I was eager to try it. CILTEP earlier that morning. Used it on approx. 12 EEG spots on my head for 5 minutes each. 300 mg CoQ + 20 mg PQQ. ~5g Creatinine after a work-out later.

Definitely felt an odd anti-depressant effect, as I was smiling and feeling good for no reason at times. However, I felt a bit spaced out and not totally myself after TULIP. After dinner, I felt a little depressed, but pretty sure it's situational. Didn't have a chance to do much studying today.

Overall, no problems with CILTEP + LEDs, but not exactly was I was looking for. However, I know it's just the first day, and am happy that I felt something. Will continue, tweak regimen, and report back if I obtain good results.

The theory behind CILTEP is that by preventing cAMP degradation in neurons by inhibiting PDE4 it acts to prolong CREB activation and thus enhanced transcription of important neuronal enzymes to enhance LTP. For example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creb

Genes whose transcription is regulated by CREB include: c-fos, the neurotrophin BDNF (Brain-derived neurotrophic factor), tyrosine hydroxylase, and many neuropeptides (such as somatostatin, enkephalin, VGF, and corticotropin-releasing hormone).[2]

CREB also gets imported into the mitochondria and promotes protein synthesis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19614745

The cAMP response element-binding protein (CREB) is a ubiquitous transcription factor in the higher eukaryotes that, once phosphorylated, promotes transcription of cAMP response element-regulated genes. We have studied the mitochondrial import of CREB and its effect on the expression of mtDNA-encoded proteins. [(35)S]Methionine-labelled CREB, synthesized in vitro in the Rabbit Reticulocyte Lysate system using a construct of the human cDNA, was imported into the matrix of isolated rat liver mitochondria by a membrane potential and TOM complex-dependent process. The imported CREB caused cAMP-dependent promotion of the synthesis of mitochondrially encoded subunits of oxidative phosphorylation enzyme complexes. Thus, CREB moves from the cytosol to mitochondria, in addition to the nucleus, and, when phosphorylated by cAMP-dependent protein kinase, promotes the expression of mitochondrial genes.

I wonder if mitochondria enhanced by LLLT would produce more cAMP induced mitochondrial proteins thus producing a synergistic effect.

[Makiavel]

I have a question relating to PQQ and CoQ10 supplementation. Is there any recommendation / theory regarding correct timing and administration? I am asking because I don't know the mechanisms in play enough to answer myself.

Would there be a difference in taking CoQ10 and PQQ every day compared to every other day, beside the dose difference? Would it be theorically better to take it at the same time every day and get our body used to this routine or to cycle it because our body would compensates for the extra molecules?

[mettmett]

take 20mg pqq a day. one in the morning one at night. same deal with coq10. pqq helps form mitochondria so u want to take it everyday along with coq10 bc they are synergistic

[lostfalco]

So my 96 LED ebay array came into today, and I was eager to try it. CILTEP earlier that morning. Used it on approx. 12 EEG spots on my head for 5 minutes each. 300 mg CoQ + 20 mg PQQ. ~5g Creatinine after a work-out later.

Definitely felt an odd anti-depressant effect, as I was smiling and feeling good for no reason at times. However, I felt a bit spaced out and not totally myself after TULIP. After dinner, I felt a little depressed, but pretty sure it's situational. Didn't have a chance to do much studying today.

Overall, no problems with CILTEP + LEDs, but not exactly was I was looking for. However, I know it's just the first day, and am happy that I felt something. Will continue, tweak regimen, and report back if I obtain good results.

Thanks for reporting back Potent! Sounds good man. Just remember that you can always start low and slowly work upward. I don't even do five minutes per spot and I've been using LLLT for 8+ months now. Just a thought. =) If your 'spaciness' persists then try lower photon doses.

Also, what are you using for CILTEP? I only use the Artichoke Extract half of CILTEP because TULIP takes care of the rest. This has worked extremely well for me. Forskolin is probably cAMP overkill. Abelard...what are your thoughts here?

From the wiki on PQQ http://en.wikipedia....inoline_quinone

• PQQ triggers the CREB signaling protein (cAMP-response element-binding protein), which plays a pivotal role in embryonic development and growth. It also beneficially interacts with histones, proteins involved in the packaging and nuclear organization of cell DNA.^[14] CREB also stimulates the growth of new mitochondria.

(Thanks to Abelard and Opaque for their work here)

[lostfalco]

This brings me to some VERY exciting cutting edge scientific research. If any of you guys have the time, I would suggest going to pubmed and searching for 'mitochondrial epigenetics'. There is a fascinating interplay between mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) and nuclear DNA (nDNA). Mitochondria are basically ancient bacteria that live in our cells and interact with our nuclear genome in very surprising ways to create eukaryotic life...us. I think that this interaction is going to shed A LOT of light on future enhancement possibilities as well as ways to treat a HUGE number of human diseases. Both mtDNA AND nDNA matter a great deal as does the interaction between mtDNA and nDNA. We are in some fascinating territory here...ya know, if you're a nerd like I am. =)

Edited by lostfalco, 14 September 2013 - 06:31 PM.

[Potent]

The theory behind CILTEP is that by preventing cAMP degradation in neurons by inhibiting PDE4 it acts to prolong CREB activation and thus enhanced transcription of important neuronal enzymes to enhance LTP.
CREB also gets imported into the mitochondria and promotes protein synthesis.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19614745

The cAMP response element-binding protein (CREB) is a ubiquitous transcription factor in the higher eukaryotes that, once phosphorylated, promotes transcription of cAMP response element-regulated genes. We have studied the mitochondrial import of CREB and its effect on the exp<b></b>ression of mtDNA-encoded proteins. [(35)S]Methionine-labelled CREB, synthesized in vitro in the Rabbit Reticulocyte Lysate system using a construct of the human cDNA, was imported into the matrix of isolated rat liver mitochondria by a membrane potential and TOM complex-dependent process. The imported CREB caused cAMP-dependent promotion of the synthesis of mitochondrially encoded subunits of oxidative phosphorylation enzyme complexes. Thus, CREB moves from the cytosol to mitochondria, in addition to the nucleus, and, when phosphorylated by cAMP-dependent protein kinase, promotes the exp<b></b>ression of mitochondrial genes.

I wonder if mitochondria enhanced by LLLT would produce more cAMP induced mitochondrial proteins thus producing a synergistic effect.

Thanks for reporting back Potent! Sounds good man. Just remember that you can always start low and slowly work upward. I don't even do five minutes per spot and I've been using LLLT for 8+ months now. Just a thought. =) If your 'spaciness' persists then try lower photon doses.

Also, what are you using for CILTEP? I only use the Artichoke Extract half of CILTEP because TULIP takes care of the rest. This has worked extremely well for me. Forskolin is probably cAMP overkill. Abelard...what are your thoughts here?

Third day on TULIP (300mg CoQ + 20mg PQQ)
Dosed ~5g Creatine before - thought it would be good to have a phosphate donor for increased ATP synthesis.
CILTEP - 5 mg Forskolin + 600 mg Artichoke + 200m Caffeine
750mg Oxiracetam
250mg Phenylpiracetam BID

Felt tired on the first two days, less tired today on the third. So far so good. First couple hours on the stack, felt really energized, as expected. After a couple hours, started to feel a little tired, but not too bad. Noticed an increase in cognitive endurance on the 2nd and 3rd days, yet not as awesome as Falco and others have reported. I feel mini-boosts to my brain every hour or so, that reduce cognitive fatigue. The endurance is good, but I would like a motivational push, especially with the weird simultaneous fatigue. That's where I think modafinil or a low dose stimulant would pair well.

Overall, I'm gonna wait for a while longer - hopefully for gene upregulation/protein synthesis/whatever else is happening from 850 nm stimulation.

Falco - I agree with your notion on TULIP + CILTEP. Without TULIP, I'll take the CILTEP stack and notice a clear difference from no CILTEP --> CILTEP. With TULIP first --> CILTEP --> I notice no difference. It feels like TULIP is overriding the CILTEP state. Either TULIP already induces the CILTEP state, and adding CILTEP doesn't make me feel any different, or TULIP antagonizes CILTEP.

Abelard - I didn't know about CREB inducing mitochondrial gene exp<b></b>ression, but I was hoping for some additive or synergistic effect with TULIP and CILTEP. Right now, I don't know. I'll have to keep studying and see my retention later on to gauge the effects.

Finally, what happens if you TULIP too many days in a row? I've read somewhere that you do 2 days on, 1 day off. Should I do that as well? I feel like my brain hasn't adjusted to TULIP yet, according to the fatigue. I was thinking about continuing until I really feel the clarity / speed of thought / endurance without fatigue.

Edited by Potent, 14 September 2013 - 11:14 PM.

[Godof Smallthings]

LostFalco's advice: DON'T laser every day. Either every other day, OR two days on, one day off.

[lourdaud]

Am I the only one who's not responding very well to PQQ? Makes me braindead..

[Godof Smallthings]

I've yet to start the PQQ regime. Should arrive within the coming week.

[lostfalco]

Third day on TULIP (300mg CoQ + 20mg PQQ)
Dosed ~5g Creatine before - thought it would be good to have a phosphate donor for increased ATP synthesis.
CILTEP - 5 mg Forskolin + 600 mg Artichoke + 200m Caffeine
750mg Oxiracetam
250mg Phenylpiracetam BID

Felt tired on the first two days, less tired today on the third. So far so good. First couple hours on the stack, felt really energized, as expected. After a couple hours, started to feel a little tired, but not too bad. Noticed an increase in cognitive endurance on the 2nd and 3rd days, yet not as awesome as Falco and others have reported. I feel mini-boosts to my brain every hour or so, that reduce cognitive fatigue. The endurance is good, but I would like a motivational push, especially with the weird simultaneous fatigue. That's where I think modafinil or a low dose stimulant would pair well.

Overall, I'm gonna wait for a while longer - hopefully for gene upregulation/protein synthesis/whatever else is happening from 850 nm stimulation.

Falco - I agree with your notion on TULIP + CILTEP. Without TULIP, I'll take the CILTEP stack and notice a clear difference from no CILTEP --> CILTEP. With TULIP first --> CILTEP --> I notice no difference. It feels like TULIP is overriding the CILTEP state. Either TULIP already induces the CILTEP state, and adding CILTEP doesn't make me feel any different, or TULIP antagonizes CILTEP.

Abelard - I didn't know about CREB inducing mitochondrial gene expression, but I was hoping for some additive or synergistic effect with TULIP and CILTEP. Right now, I don't know. I'll have to keep studying and see my retention later on to gauge the effects.

Finally, what happens if you TULIP too many days in a row? I've read somewhere that you do 2 days on, 1 day off. Should I do that as well? I feel like my brain hasn't adjusted to TULIP yet, according to the fatigue. I was thinking about continuing until I really feel the clarity / speed of thought / endurance without fatigue.

Just my two cents...obviously you can do whatever you want. =)

First of all, I wouldn't take forskolin...for now. Abelard has a VERY interesting theory about how to counteract the effects of forskolin with TULIP but he has just started experimenting with it and I would wait on his results. Just try the artichoke extract half of CILTEP for now. Again, I've had excellent results with this. IF forskolin happens to make it better then we are going to be in 'super-excellent' territory. 'Excellent' is still pretty damn good. The more you multiply substances the harder it becomes to judge interactions. Keep it minimal at the beginning...imo. =)

Here are Abelard's recent posts about it.
http://www.longecity...890#entry611935

http://www.longecity...890#entry611940

Secondly, I wouldn't take oxiracetam or phenylpiracetam...for now. Same reason as above. Start with CIL-TULIP (Abelard comes first, obviously) and get a feel for your results there. We are juggling multiple variables simultaneously and it gets very hard to determine which substance is doing what in a hurry. When you add more substances you also add the element of 'interactions' between those substances. Start with a handful of things (at most), find effective doses and timings there, then think about adding other things after a few weeks to a month. CIL-TULIP is very potent. I have no desire right now to even worry about adding racetams (though I might in the future)...they're just too comparatively weak in my experience (I've taken them all).

If you really want to go crazy and stack a lot of things I would suggest 'Happy CIL-TULIP'. Theoretically it seems like there should be a very powerful synergy here and so far my (limited) experience has been very good. I've modified both The Happy Stack and CILTEP (just a little) but their conceptual ideas both hold. Aarfai deserves some credit for mentioning this to me previously and I would be remiss not to include him here as well. I'm still experimenting so please don't ask me for too many specifics...but so far I think that these stacks are all very fundamental and deal with enhancements at the epigenetic/cellular/energetic levels. I think the focus on membranes (lipids, choline, omega 3s, etc.), proteins (amino acids, enzymes, etc.), nucleotides/nucleosides, epigenetics, etc. is where we want to be. Abelard and I are both experimenting here right now and I would appreciate any research or feedback that anyone has for us!
The Happy Stack: http://www.longecity.../page__st__2130
Happy Stack on reddit: http://www.reddit.co...in_development/
Abelard's CILTEP: http://www.longecity.../page__st__1890

As a sidenote...sounds like Mr. Happy's kid is a genius. Check this out! His wife has been taking his stack. "N=1, however my baby started crawling at 3 weeks, talking at 5 weeks (6 word vocabulary, in context), trying to walk at 10 weeks and teething at 12 weeks.
So.. more than just a little ahead of normal development. She's a really settled and well behaved baby, too
We have been supplementing the uridine, dha, choline, multi stack throughout the pregnancy and breastfeeding.
We'll definitely be repeating the process for the next one."

Don't forget physics as well. We are ultimately taking low entropy energy from the environment, chopping it up into slightly higher entropy energy, and using it to power our bodies. This is what it's ALL about and I think it's important to keep our focus here. Pretty much everything we are doing is a means to this end. If anybody can think of anything more fundamental than this, please share! My tiny brain can't. =)

Def do not laser/regulate every day. LLLT is hormetic and works on an inverted U-shaped dose-response curve. Less is more. Imagine doing bicep curls extremely intensely every single day for 3 weeks straight. Recovery time is important. http://www.longecity...1887-lostfalco/

One last idea for experimentation. Laser at night before bed, don't eat anything when you wake up, take PQQ/CoQ10/Shilajit/Artichoke/Caffeine on an empty stomach (I'm not a huge caffeine fan...but you're already taking 200mg so you want to keep taking it for now), and see what happens. Don't eat anything for 2 to 4 hours so that you can guage what the supps are doing a little better. I'm not saying this will work...but taking things early in the morning before any food (you can drink water, of course) usually gives me a good idea of how my supplement regimen is affecting me. Just a thought. Keep us updated. Hopefully, we can tweak this until it works well for you!

Edited by lostfalco, 15 September 2013 - 03:57 PM.

[AscendantMind]

Hey guys, new member here. What a thread to start with! I plan to start on TULIP once my current experiment is over (1 month of dual n-back with tDCS, Lion's Mane, nIR HEG, and meditation). I've already ordered the LEDs.

I have a question about hair. Several of you have mentioned throughout the thread that you intend to shave. Why is this necessary? Does hair block IR in a way that the skull and intervening tissues do not? Or are you simply trying to do all you can to maximize the effect of the IR? I really don't want to shave, but I will if it is necessary.

Another question: has anyone tried this with high-dose MCTs? I'm about to start a bodybuilding experiment with 900 calories per day of MCT, and am curious to see if the extra fuel that is available to the mitochondria would have an effect.

Finally--and sorry abut all the questions--but is there any reason to believe that increased mitochondrial activity would increase the production of metabolic byproducts like free radicals from carbohydrate metabolism? Might it be advisable to take glutathione or oxeloacetate, or perhaps increase my blueberry intake?

Additional comments: This place seems awesome. Quite the hotbed of self-experimentation. I will need to spend a lot of time just catching up.

Edited by AscendantMind, 15 September 2013 - 07:11 PM.

[lostfalco]

Hey guys, new member here. What a thread to start with! I plan to start on TULIP once my current experiment is over (1 month of dual n-back with tDCS, Lion's Mane, nIR HEG, and meditation). I've already ordered the LEDs.

I have a question about hair. Several of you have mentioned throughout the thread that you intend to shave. Why is this necessary? Does hair block IR in a way that the skull and intervening tissues do not? Or are you simply trying to do all you can to maximize the effect of the IR? I really don't want to shave, but I will if it is necessary.

Another question: has anyone tried this with high-dose MCTs? I'm about to start a bodybuilding experiment with 900 calories per day of MCT, and am curious to see if the extra fuel that is available to the mitochondria would have an effect.

Finally--and sorry abut all the questions--but is there any reason to believe that increased mitochondrial activity would increase the production of metabolic byproducts like free radicals from carbohydrate metabolism? Might it be advisable to take glutathione or oxeloacetate, or perhaps increase my blueberry intake?

Additional comments: This place seems awesome. Quite the hotbed of self-experimentation. I will need to spend a lot of time just catching up. :)

Welcome Ascendant! Cool to have you here man. That's a pretty cool experimental regimen. Let us know your results when your month is up. =)

Def no need to shave your head. Just make sure you nestle the LEDs right up against your skin and you'll be fine. I have pretty dark hair and I've had no problems at all.

I have tried TULIP with MCT oil, Octane oil, and Kerrygold Butter...works pretty darn well in my experience. I've never tried 900 calories worth of MCT though! I think my bowels would mutiny. ha If you try it, then let me know. Our brain uses multiple substrates for energy and fat is a major one. Current research (in rodents) seems to hint that various brain regions preferentially use different primary fuels and then switch to other fuels once the primary one is used up. I think this is part of the reason that fat, glucose, amino acids, nucleotides, etc. are all important. We just have to find the right balance. Check the research thread for more info on this. http://www.longecity...tc/#entry610313

There is a small concern that enhanced mitochondrial activity might lead to extra free radical damage. However, there is something important to keep in mind here. PQQ and LLLT are excellent antioxidants. PQQ is helping us build smaller and more efficient mitochondria. These new and improved mitos just don't seem to create as much damage...remember, we are improving efficiency not just output. With that said however, I have asked Dave Asprey about adding glutathione and/or oxeloacetate but I haven't heard back yet. I'll let you know when I do.

Anyway, I totally agree with you. This place is awesome right now. There are so many people providing research, theories, experiments, etc. and we are making some really cool progress. Thanks again to everyone!

btw...I'm about to add an hypoxic tent in order to increase endogenous EPO production and Opaque has tentatively reported some very good early results with NeurOptimal (I hope you don't mind me saying that. =)). I think modified 'Happy CIL-TULIP' plus hypoxic tent (at night) plus concentrated oxygen (during the day...just a little) plus neurofeedback (NeurOptimal, nIR HEG, etc...) is going to be other worldly. Let's all keep each other updated. Exciting times my friends!

Here's the quick TULIP summary in case you haven't seen it yet. =) http://www.longecity...1887-lostfalco/

Edited by lostfalco, 15 September 2013 - 08:15 PM.

[lostfalco]

Just posted a compilation of Opaque's TULIP experiences here. http://www.longecity...lf/#entry612210

It's kind of fun to read his progression because he and I sort of started experimenting with TULIP at the same time. Enjoy!

[EncyclopediaBrown]

Oxygen was mentioned earlier as having a nootropic effect.

Here are some devices that may help you increase your body's oxygen carrying capability

PowerLung
http://www.amazon.co...ords=power lung

Ultrabreathe
http://www.amazon.co...ords=power lung

POWERbreathe Plus 2
http://www.amazon.co...ords=power lung

Elevation Training Mask
http://www.amazon.co...ords=power lung

Frolov Breathslim
http://www.amazon.co...reathing device

FREE: The Buteyko (Shallow Breathing) Method
http://www.cablechip...for-asthma.html

Edited by EncyclopediaBrown, 16 September 2013 - 05:17 PM.

[Nattzor]

First day of my blinded experiment, will do the tests tomorrow.

Do you guys think 7 days (1 week) or 10 days is the way to go? Will do 4 weeks or 40 days before I post the results (may talk about them a bit though).

[cougar]

Hi lostfalco and everyone on LLLT,

You guys convinced me. I just order the 96 LED from the eBay seller recommend by lostfalco. Unfortunately since the seller recommended in lostfalco's profile page doesn't ship the 48 LED to outside of US, I might end up having to buy the 48 LED from elsewhere. The problem is that I was not able to find any other sellers who sells the 48 LED with power supply, so my question is, can the power supply coming with the 96 LED be used on 48 LED?

Thanks

[Strangelove]

First week and I am taking things slowly, Tulip one day on one off as, for now, I am still getting sleepy and tired.

I received PQQ and Q10 today, maybe you want to check this for PQQ

http://www.iherb.com...Microtabs/50071

The price is good and although its not in the directions these mini tabs look like they made for sublingual absorption (size, the way they dissolve, citrus flavor) as was suggested in another thread.

Edited by Strangelove, 17 September 2013 - 10:35 AM.

[Nattzor]

Got my tDCS today, will not use it for a while though.

[lostfalco]

Got my tDCS today, will not use it for a while though.

Cool Nattzor. Which one did you get?

First week and I am taking things slowly, Tulip one day on one off as, for now, I am still getting sleepy and tired.

I received PQQ and Q10 today, maybe you want to check this for PQQ

http://www.iherb.com...Microtabs/50071

The price is good and although its not in the directions these mini tabs look like they made for sublingual absorption (size, the way they dissolve, citrus flavor) as was suggested in another thread.

Yeah...give it a little time. Remember, you can always lower the dose too. Are you lasering for 1 minute per region?

Hi lostfalco and everyone on LLLT,

You guys convinced me. I just order the 96 LED from the eBay seller recommend by lostfalco. Unfortunately since the seller recommended in lostfalco's profile page doesn't ship the 48 LED to outside of US, I might end up having to buy the 48 LED from elsewhere. The problem is that I was not able to find any other sellers who sells the 48 LED with power supply, so my question is, can the power supply coming with the 96 LED be used on 48 LED?

Thanks

I bet that you can use that power supply for both. Try that out first and then you can always order a separate plug for the 48 if you need to. Something like this maybe: http://www.amazon.co.../ref=pd_sim_p_1

Edited by lostfalco, 17 September 2013 - 04:16 PM.

[middpanther88]

Did we resolve the cheapest $ combination of the supplements?

[lostfalco]

First day of my blinded experiment, will do the tests tomorrow.

Do you guys think 7 days (1 week) or 10 days is the way to go? Will do 4 weeks or 40 days before I post the results (may talk about them a bit though).

I think either one would work. The Naeser study seemed to block it into 8 week segments...so maybe 40 days would be better. Totally up to your discretion though.

Edited by lostfalco, 17 September 2013 - 04:19 PM.

[lostfalco]

Did we resolve the cheapest $ combination of the supplements?

A number of people have reported good results with the ebay supplement but there are some concerns with it as well. It really is a tough call. It's very inexpensive (which is what makes it attractive) AND it's very inexpensive (which is what makes it suspect). I know I repeated myself. =)

I'm honestly not sure where I stand on this one. If anyone else wants to chime in, feel free.

Here's a recent post related to supplement options to get you started. There are a lot of other versions/brands out there as well. http://www.longecity...tc/#entry611533

Edited by lostfalco, 17 September 2013 - 04:45 PM.