4029 replies to this topic

[lostfalco]

Yeah, I've got nothing to do with any of that. Hmmm.....

Lostfalco, I updated my post above. Like I said, they sell all kinds of random stuff, and it all has the "GOLDEN TULIP" trademark. Maybe it's just a rare coincidence...? Then again I cannot imagine that...

So maybe this guy knows more than we do, and we should conscider adding the following items to the TULIP stack:

http://www.amazon.de...0822966&sr=1-15

http://www.amazon.de...0822966&sr=1-23

http://www.amazon.de...0823675&sr=1-38


^__^

I think we may actually just be witnessing something along the lines of this:

http://images1.wikia...kle_concept.jpg

Anyways, since it seems to be the cheapest option in Germany (with an adapter included, that is) I just ordered the 48 LED one. Will report back once I finally start TULIPing :)

haha Yeah, the "God-stack" is PQQ + CoQ10 + hat rack + vacuum cleaner + Nemo...ALL potentiated by coherent light waves. TRUST me on this one guys! ha

I think you're right chris...interesting coincidence? Who knows? =)

Edited by lostfalco, 03 October 2013 - 06:28 PM.

[Psionic]

chris: the tulip trademark guy sold the same 48LED device I bought from hong-kong on ebay for $3.90 for more than 20 Euros. The Hong kong seller ships worldwide.

For the concept of as cheap as possible device, I have found something like flexible textile breadboard (check out pics: http://api.ning.com/..._Breadboard.jpg) and http://etextile-summ...dboard_back.jpg
I think it can be ideal for a head cap (or other body parts as well), maybe some experienced chinesse company can do all the work of completation very cheaply, then we can be very closely to starting some pre-orders or crowdfunging platform.

[chris106]

Whoa, that's good to know. At least now I know that I won't be orderring the 96 LED from him then. Still, ordering from Hongkong might still mean custom problems. Did it at least work for you?

[Godof Smallthings]

I would speculate that at most, you'll pay some import tax (and with such a low price, it won't be very high). If you order just one, I think the low price means that customs will not even bother to administer any tariffs.

Maybe you could simply call customs and ask?

[88LS]

On the topic of import tax, get a load of this.. South African customs withheld my products ordered from iHerb - per DHL courier (AOR Multibasics, LEF Ubiqui+shilajit+PQQ, Jarrow Uridine - $103.14) and imposed a waybill/release fee for duties, taxes and so forth for......... wait for it......... $49.73?! Half the price of the damn order, and then DHL goes ahead and gives you 7 days to pay it or they send your order to a warehouse where it gets auctioned off, so you really have no say. It's funny I've never had this problem with standard eBay shipping, but with courier (DHL) shipping it seems they are much more full of shiat.

[Godof Smallthings]

Same thing happened to me when I used the more expensive shipping options. Now I pick the regular global mail by DHL (which is basically regular post that you get through the normal post office: it takes 2 weeks but I just plan ahead), and have no problems as long as my order is below 70 USD.

If above, there will be import tax. But still a lot less than when I used the courier service. And the time to delivery ended up the same.

[88LS]

Thanks for the heads up Godof, I could only choose from two shipping options on iHerb though, think it was DHL and EMS both courier... do you have more shipping options to choose from on your side?

[Godof Smallthings]

At this point I only have the 'Global Mail by DHL' available - there were so many complaints about the courier services that iherb removed them for this country.

[rc897]

Twitching?

anyone get this from LLLT?

been on the LEDs for 2days on 1 day off then 4days off 1 day on schedule about 2 months. 4-5 spots w. a 48 bulb 808nm led, for 1min to 1min 15 seconds a spot (f3, f4 middle of forehead, back of head, sometimes top of head).

I have been getting twitching on the upper lip left hand side, just really mild- several times a day- same as if you have ever gotten an eyelid twitch.
Though I may be short calcium and or magniesium but not so as I am supplementing.

was only on ana & sulbut at 750mg & 250mg /day. just started to add the PQQ & CoQ10 post twitch, so I am not sure what it is.

[lostfalco]

Can you see it twitching? If so, it is probably a fasciculation and nothing to worry about (something like 90%+ of people experience these at some point). Check that out first, let us know, and we can talk about things to try after that. =) http://en.wikipedia....i/Fasciculation http://www.popsci.co...-stop-twitching

[rc897]

Yes you can see the twitch, very small.

[zawy]

lostfalco, can you find references to what percent of 660 nm and 850 nm light can make it through the dermis and epidermis, especially with different amount of melanin? I've always assumed it was between 2% and 20% based on overly-complicated equations and experience, but if 10% can make through 4 mm of skull bone like some papers say (others say 3%) then I see 50% or more making it through 2 mm of bare scalp skin. If a helmet covers 3 times more area than the sun, and if the correct specific wavelength of 850 is 3 times better at penetration and activation than the average of the 25 mW/cm^2 of the Sun, and if the helmet is 30% larger than the head (1.30^2=1.69 => 69% more light on scalp than in array, then a "weakish" array not requiring a fan of 25 mW/cm^2 would supply be 3*3*1.69=15 times more light than the sun. If the skin allows 20% light through, and the skull allows 5%, then in order to get the 1 J/cm^2, treatment time for the helmet would be: 1/(0.20*0.05*0.025*1.69) = 2,400 seconds, about 40 minutes. With my 75 mW/cm^2 that supplies maybe 100 mW/cm^2 treatment time seems to need 16 minutes instead of 8. And half mine are red which is about 50% less light making it to the brain than the 850 infrared, so 20 minutes seems reasonable. But rather than using the iffy light penetration estimates, I could go by evolution and simply try to do what is natural: try to squeeze a half day of Sun exposure into less time. Say I want 4 hours of 25 mW/cm^2. My helmet is 4 times stronger and my wavelengths are twice as optimal and my head has 3 times the coverage, then I need 4*60/4/2/3=10 minutes. Again, it comes out exceeding close to what all the complicated research is trying to achieve: do what's natural.

[zawy]

I've published my LED pulsing ideas as a creative common on instructables.com so that no one can use them for commercial purposes (like getting a worthwhile patent), without my permission, but that anyone can use and modify the ideas freely for personal and non-commercial use, requiring that they share derivations of the idea. I have no idea how valid and useful creative commons contracts are, but there it is.

Edited by zawy, 05 October 2013 - 12:43 PM.

[zawy]

This is an addition to the creative commons at instructable. Here are my answer to the important questions concerning building a helmet for the brain: you want 830 nm (if you can get it in an array as cheap as 850 nm) and we have no idea what the best pulsing will be except my guess is 50 uS on and 250 uS off. More than 25 mW/cm^2 (80 mW/cm^2 circuit) and the circuit will need a fan. At 30% efficiency of energy input to light output gives 0.025/0.3/2 = 42 mW per LED. 1.55 V / 0.042 = * 37 mA in each LED series for 830 and 850 nm. This gives (12-1.55*7)/0.037 = 38 ohm resistor for each series of 7 LED at 12 V. At 25 mW/cm^2 in a 40% oversized helmet using inward to double the light intensity (cortex has 14x17 cm diameters, so LEDs need to be 20x23 cm diameters) could be 50 mW/cm^2 which at 2% transmission (assuming bald and white skin) to cortex and needing 1 J/cm^2, means 1/0.05/0.02 = 1000 second treatment (17 minutes) plus or minus a factor of two, if the pulsing does not help a lot so that it can be reduced to 5 minutes. 1/2 of a 22 cm sphere is 760 cm^2 which is therefore 1520 LEDs at 2 LED/cm^2 (5 mm type is needed). 40 mW per LED at 1500 LEDs is 60 Watts which will need a very open design. A 60 W bulb is hot, but spread out like this, the circuit should not get hot. Bald is needed. 20 degree emission angle (+/-10) is needed. Twice as long for dark skin or hair and 4 times as long for dark hair and dark skin, as a wild guess, but with more chance for overheating. Timer to automatically shut off after 5 or 10 minutes to check scalp temperature. Heat stress warning. Do it fast and sell it, then change design when needed, then get FDA approval on a finished design. If you sell without FDA certification and FDA sends you a warning letter, do exactly what they say and want and you'll be OK, assuming certification does not become more difficult. Infrared arrays might be dangerous to the eyes, at least as far as our legal system is concerned. You don't need to be the best or prettiest helmet. You need to be the first powerful helmet that gets internet buzz among people who have brain-impaired relatives. No one will spend over $1000 on a helmet without seeing it help people they know. Your costs for production 1500 of the 850 nm 5 mm LEDs will be will be $400. Approval in different legal systems may be difficult if you go over 25 mW/cm^2 (and thereby need a fan). Targeting tanning salons, chiropractors, and physical therapists would be a great idea: there are about 15,000 of each in the U.S. and they have conferences where ideas can spread. You'll need someone who is an enthusiastic member of and active in those communities. I am talking from 17 years of experience in watching small health-product manufacturers start up and fail, and learning from the few that succeed to the multimillion dollar level in 5 to 10 years (Mine grew along with 4 other individually owned companies). It takes 5 years of focused work for someone who is in the upper 10% of intelligence to create one of these companies with 50% chance of success. The most important step is the initial idea. The helmet is the best idea I've seen in a long time, assuming it works in dementia or is excellent in terms of increasing thinking hours per day.

[Raisinthehouse]

Sign me up

[stephen_b]

Do we have any evidence that pulsing is better than continuous? Is the idea to have a momentarily high intensity pulse with deep penetration that might be problematic at continuous levels?

[Raisinthehouse]

The studies seem to indicate pulsing is mildly superior.

[Raisinthehouse]

Has anyone combined this with CILTEP yet? Rather interested to know how they would combine. I'm also curious about it's effects while on a ketogenic diet.
I would assume that if ketosis is beneficial for mitochondria, partaking in a ketogenic diet would make TULIP slightly more effective.

[swen]

Has anyone combined this with CILTEP yet? Rather interested to know how they would combine. I'm also curious about it's effects while on a ketogenic diet.
I would assume that if ketosis is beneficial for mitochondria, partaking in a ketogenic diet would make TULIP slightly more effective.

There are some reports about people combing TULIP with CILTEP but it had negative effects (see for example experiences Opaquemind).

From what I've read is that the PQQ + Q10 part of TULIP can be combined with CILTEP and may be beneficial.
OR you can use the Artichoke Extract of CILTEP with TULIP without the Forskolin.

[abelard lindsay]

From what I've read is that the PQQ + Q10 part of TULIP can be combined with CILTEP and may be beneficial.
OR you can use the Artichoke Extract of CILTEP with TULIP without the Forskolin.

I take PQQ + Uniquinol + CILTEP and I'd say, subjectively, it improves the effects of CILTEP. Where I ran into trouble was adding uridine to CILTEP which was good at first but then led to some moods that I'd attribute to low serotonin levels, at least based on how I interpret moods using the methods of Eric S. Braverman's "The Edge Effect"..

Edited by abelard lindsay, 05 October 2013 - 06:08 PM.

[lostfalco]

The studies seem to indicate pulsing is mildly superior.

Yup...this is right on

[lostfalco]

Has anyone combined this with CILTEP yet? Rather interested to know how they would combine. I'm also curious about it's effects while on a ketogenic diet.
I would assume that if ketosis is beneficial for mitochondria, partaking in a ketogenic diet would make TULIP slightly more effective.

I've added Artichoke (Jarrow 500mg) and it works extremely well. The laser AND PQQ both raise cAMP which is why I don't currently take Forskolin with it. Opaque guessed that cAMP overload might have caused his headaches with the full CILTEP/TULIP combo.

Even with just the Artichoke, I would still (provisionally) recommend taking a day or two off per week though. I would love to be wrong on both counts however...forskolin? days off? Has anyone messed around with these parameters recently? Regardless, Abelard's CILTEP concept has proven to be an excellent one in my experience. He's rightfully earned his place on my list.

[zawy]

Some of the animal studies in the brain are showing pulsing is better. For wound healing, pulsing got mixed results. None of the studies I've seen are using the type of microsecond pulses my devices are using, and I want a CCO researcher to give me a better idea on the time. The CCO is a ~10-stage mechanical pump that receives energy to change its shape in response to the individual photons coming in. This is a nanotechnology application, converting individual photons into noticeable mechanical energy. CCO is operating like a fuel cell in cooperation with the rest of the electron transport chain. Its function is to accept electrons to pump H+ to a higher concentration area while converting O2 to to H20. The H+ concentration is not burnt directly, but converts ATP for burning. The presence of the electrons pull H+ into the pump without reacting with it. The O2 to 2H2O conversion process in the pump uses up the electrons to reset the pump to the initial state after electrons have come into it and four H+ have been pumped into the higher concentration area for 4 ATP production. The H+ naturally exist in water plentifully at pH=7 and is continually replenished by the Krebs cycle that produces NADH that the other parts of the electron transport chain use to release the H+ from the NADH and feed in the electrons while generating NAD+ and H+. (and FADH to FAD+ and H+ I believe). The new paper lostfalco linked shows the 4 H+ stay inside the pump until a cycle is completed and release the H2O. The 4 e- are used for the two O-2 generated from O2 so that the O2 to 2H2O electron requirements balance out. ketones from coconut oil helps dementia and other elderly mental conditions. Just read the customer reviews on amazon.

[zawy]

The light kicks things along to prevent an excess of the electrons that cause ROS. Too much light appears to cause a build up of the electrons. Insufficient CoQ10 means electrons can't be sent from the 3rd pump to pump 4 which is the light-activated CCO pump. CoQ10 is a shuttler of electrons for CCO and nothing more. If it's not there, ROS is created. As with exercise, some believe the excess of ROS during light treatment might be the reason it helps. I am skeptical. I just ain't into the whole "don't take vitamin C before you exercise" camp. I'll avoid ROS when I can.

[zawy]

The 4 wavelengths of light cause each of the 2 copper atoms in the CCO to either release or accept a new electron from the copper atom as the are being shuttled along to an inner iron atoms that can hold 2 of them at a time to create 1 H20 at a time. The copper atom next to it is holding only the O2 and shifting it to a different position as an electron comes in, which opens a channel to let another H+ come in. Each wavelength has a different specific activity, but the same final result. They each create an electrostatic pull by sending out or pulling in an electron sooner than normal. 850 nm kicks the electron off of the copper atom next to cyt C which allows it to more easily send in another electron. CoQ10 is between complex 2 and 3, not 4 like I said.

[BigPapaChakra]

Has anyone combined this with CILTEP yet? Rather interested to know how they would combine. I'm also curious about it's effects while on a ketogenic diet.
I would assume that if ketosis is beneficial for mitochondria, partaking in a ketogenic diet would make TULIP slightly more effective.

This is a paper I'm currently going through: http://www.coconutke..._651-8_wo_cover[1].pdf There are a bunch of other fantastic papers by Richard Veech and George Cahill on ketone body production, metabolism, use by different brain regions, effects on mitochondria, etc. Fascinating stuff to me considering I've been reading pro-ketosis blogs for months and now I'm just going directly to the source of information to rule out misinterpretation. One of the papers you can find on the coconut ketones website speaks about the implications of supplemental beta-hydroxybutyrate and ketone esters. There is a paper that showed improved benefits from combined uses of ketones+insulin and a third thing as well, it's not coming to mind right now. This reminds me of LostFalco's idea wayyyy back in this thread about glucose+an ice bath+oxygen. I'm thinking doing something to open up the blood vessels and increase blood circulation prior to and during supplementation with beta-hydroxybutyrate salts and something that drastically increases insulin - maybe supplemental glucose, but I don't know how insulinogenic that may be.

The thing I'm trying to establish right now is: Do we need to be in an endogenous state of ketosis? As in, eating a very low carb diet and sometimes even restricting protein? Or, can we get the same benefits by creating an 'artificial' ketosis via BHB salts, ketone esters, coconut oil/mct oil, ketogenic amino acids, etc.? I think that an endogenous state may carry other benefits, namely in the mitochondria and fat burning enzymes, but then again, you are still creating BHB and the other two ketone bodies via 'artificial ketosis', so wouldn't the same enzymes have to be utilized?

[lostfalco]

Some of the animal studies in the brain are showing pulsing is better. For wound healing, pulsing got mixed results. None of the studies I've seen are using the type of microsecond pulses my devices are using, and I want a CCO researcher to give me a better idea on the time. The CCO is a ~10-stage mechanical pump that receives energy to change its shape in response to the individual photons coming in. This is a nanotechnology application, converting individual photons into noticeable mechanical energy. CCO is operating like a fuel cell in cooperation with the rest of the electron transport chain. Its function is to accept electrons to pump H+ to a higher concentration area while converting O2 to to H20. The H+ concentration is not burnt directly, but converts ATP for burning. The presence of the electrons pull H+ into the pump without reacting with it. The O2 to 2H2O conversion process in the pump uses up the electrons to reset the pump to the initial state after electrons have come into it and four H+ have been pumped into the higher concentration area for 4 ATP production. The H+ naturally exist in water plentifully at pH=7 and is continually replenished by the Krebs cycle that produces NADH that the other parts of the electron transport chain use to release the H+ from the NADH and feed in the electrons while generating NAD+ and H+. (and FADH to FAD+ and H+ I believe). The new paper lostfalco linked shows the 4 H+ stay inside the pump until a cycle is completed and release the H2O. The 4 e- are used for the two O-2 generated from O2 so that the O2 to 2H2O electron requirements balance out. ketones from coconut oil helps dementia and other elderly mental conditions. Just read the customer reviews on amazon.

Nice! You read the paper on proton pumping. http://www.longecity...tc/#entry615721

Hey zawy, I totally appreciate your contributions. Are you cool with keeping the more technical discussions on the research thread? =)

Edited by lostfalco, 05 October 2013 - 08:07 PM.

[BigPapaChakra]

So has anyone been using these specific Ebay LEDs on acupuncture/pressure points? I'm really interested in doing that in a little bit to try and decrease anxiety before going off to this University, and I was wondering (1) What meridians/points I can target (2) If anyone has done this (3) If it would be possible to target these points and safely target my transcranial regions later tonight - I know that targeting some meridians actually increase oxygenation and blood flow in different brain regions, so it has effects throughout the body. Thanks!

[lostfalco]

So has anyone been using these specific Ebay LEDs on acupuncture/pressure points? I'm really interested in doing that in a little bit to try and decrease anxiety before going off to this University, and I was wondering (1) What meridians/points I can target (2) If anyone has done this (3) If it would be possible to target these points and safely target my transcranial regions later tonight - I know that targeting some meridians actually increase oxygenation and blood flow in different brain regions, so it has effects throughout the body. Thanks!

Hey Papa, they did some of this in the Naeser study. http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3104287/

[BigPapaChakra]

Yep, haha, that's why I asked. They just don't make that many specifications in terms of dose, but I'm really interested in trying this.