4029 replies to this topic

[AscendantMind]

ATP really isn't the only thing the focus should be on, red and infrared light also leads to a whole host of transcriptional factor activation, increased blood flow, oxygenation, etc. Even if somehow increased 'oxphos' was bad, the benefits of everything else would possibly be worth it.

Yeah, as lostfalco was saying, things that activate PGC1-alpha (mitochondrial boosters in general) activate damage control mechanisms as well (through the same pathway).

[AscendantMind]

So, I have a bit of an update on my regime. I was feeling a bit foggy after 90 seconds per spot on a 2-day on, 1-day off schedule, so I stopped for 4 days and started taking oxaloacetate. Fog cleared right up (due either to the break or the oxaloacetate) and I felt immensely better--my mind felt slightly but noticeably sharper than it did before beginning the protocol. I was more conversational, more energetic, more mentally "bright," etc.

I then LEDed again last night. Today I still feel mentally good, but I noticed the most bizarre thing from my sleep actigraph. My normal sleep involves 5-7 sleep cycles and 40-60% deep sleep. But last night, according to my device, I only had 19% deep sleep and only 1 sleep cycle. I also almost didn't move at all during my sleep. I've never seen this in 4 months of recording. What the hell?

But I don't feel tired at all today, even though I normally really feel it when I don't sleep well. Bizarre. Any theories?

(This isn't the first time the LEDs have affected my sleep, BTW. Before, they served to increase the depth of my sleep.)

If nothing else, I think that my sleep data provides good evidence that long exposure times, hair-shaving, and so forth are not needed in order for something dramatic (in the biological sense) to occur, since I have fairly thick, almost black hair. The effects of the LEDs are also different from anything the sun would achieve (I've lied out in the sun before, with no experiences like this).

But we still need more hard data. Can other people try recording their sleep? It takes almost zero effort; just download Sleep As Android or the iPhone equivalent and then leave the phone or tablet on the bed during sleep.

Edited by AscendantMind, 12 November 2013 - 08:10 PM.

[perceivethinkact]

Since near infrared light seems to have a plethora of benefits, i just built something like the linked photos for whole body exposure. it's pretty incredible. especially for the coming winter months as it literally is like being in a sauna. I've only been doing it for a few days, working up to 30 minutes twice a day. I'll post more specific effects when i have more experience.

Edited by frigger, 12 November 2013 - 08:26 PM.

[Nattzor]

UPDATED:

From someone on reddit irc:
-In a stressed cell, NO produced by mitochondrial NO synthase displaces oxygen from CCO, which results in a downregulation of cellular respiration and a subsequent decrease in the production of energy-storing compounds, such as ATP. By dissociating NO from CCO, LLLT prevents the displacement of oxygen from CCO and thereby promotes unhindered cellular respiration [10] (see Figure 4).
- Increased CCO enzyme activity can be measured [11]; increased ATP production [12] and increased electron transport [13] also have been reported.
- the mechanism is what i would be concerned about
- in stressed cells, IE cells that have sustained physical trauma, you have NO synthase displacing oxygen from CCO, which results in downregulation of CR
- if health individuals, you wouldn't see this phenomena, and ultimately you may just be increasing the amount of oxidative phosphorylation
- which is not good --> agining/cancer
- In aerobic organisms the energy needed to fuel biological functions is produced in the mitochondria via the electron transport chain. In addition to energy, reactive oxygen species (ROS) with the potential to cause cellular damage are produced. ROS can damage DNA, RNA, and proteins, which, in theory, contributes to the physiology of ageing.
- My point was that because there is a baseline level of ATP production, and that level is reduced in cells that are "stressed" (subjected to physical trauma as in traumatic brain injury, for example), then LLLT would be an effective clinical therapy if it actually mediates the ETC pathway via Cytochrome C.
- But in clinically health patients, the baseline level of ATP production is normal, and if LLLT stimulates over production, there is an increase in ROS production as well, which could lead to increase ageing rates--and may have potential carcinogenic effects.
- Although, I can't prove that, it is just speculation.

Summarised as: "Good for damaged cells, potentially bad for healthy cells"

Thoughts?

But as you've said, upregulation of PGC-1α should protect the mitochondria from oxidative damage, supplementing ALA and such might be good though. Can anyone provide a source that LLLT upregulates PGC1-alpha, or os it just the supplements you're taking?

[Joe Cohen]

Hi,
I'm interested in doing a google video chat with other biohackers that will be recorded and published on my blog. The point is to exchange hacks and let others know what tricks/supplements have worked for you and how you've overcome different issues. If you have lots of experimentation under your belt and would like to be interviewed, send me a private message.
http://selfhacked.com/

Edited by Joe Cohen, 12 November 2013 - 09:46 PM.

[lostfalco]

Hey guys, sorry for the silence lately...just needed a little Longecity break. =) Replying to everyone now.....

Since near infrared light seems to have a plethora of benefits, i just built something like the linked photos for whole body exposure. it's pretty incredible. especially for the coming winter months as it literally is like being in a sauna. I've only been doing it for a few days, working up to 30 minutes twice a day. I'll post more specific effects when i have more experience.

Very cool frigger! What is the wavelength on that bad boy?

[lostfalco]

Thoughts?

But as you've said, upregulation of PGC-1α should protect the mitochondria from oxidative damage, supplementing ALA and such might be good though. Can anyone provide a source that LLLT upregulates PGC1-alpha, or os it just the supplements you're taking?

PQQ upregulates PGC-1a. LLLT has antioxidant effects experimentally...though I'm not sure about it's relationship to PGC-1a specifically.

[lostfalco]

On a related note, I've been chatting with Joe Cohen a little and he gave me permission to copy and paste our correspondence about his recent LLLT and Oxygen experiences and his advice for those noticing fatigue from LLLT. Enjoy!

"LLLT has been producing pretty good results. And btw, people who experience fatigue or get bad results from it, it's because their body is bad at handling oxidative stress, in which case they should supplement with NAC.

Oxygen tank has also been pretty good. Again, NAC can be useful here, too.

Btw, I use 10 sec per spot, all over.

MED is especially important because people are also stacking.

I'd like to add that even if people have good results, I think NAC will make it even better. When you increase mitochondrial function ROS and oxidation increases. The body up regulates antioxidants to combat this-most importantly glutathione, but the body needs fuel to make glutathione. Cysteine is the rate limiting factor in glutathione synthesis. So while everyone is uprading their engine to a V12, they aren't putting in enough gas. The result? Fatigue. Anyone who gets fatigued should realize that they don't have enough glutathione synthesis. The people who don't get fatigued should be happy that their body is functioning great in that they can up regulate antioxidants without a problem. Other antioxidants like vitamin c pale in comparison to glutathione. That's the theoretical part. My extremely positive experience validates this framework. I strongly support NAC being officially added to this protocol. 600 mg will go a long way and is a minimum, but 1200 mg is better since people aren't practicing MED.

To clarify -600mg with meals two times a day, with breakfast and lunch."

[lostfalco]

So, I have a bit of an update on my regime. I was feeling a bit foggy after 90 seconds per spot on a 2-day on, 1-day off schedule, so I stopped for 4 days and started taking oxaloacetate. Fog cleared right up (due either to the break or the oxaloacetate) and I felt immensely better--my mind felt slightly but noticeably sharper than it did before beginning the protocol. I was more conversational, more energetic, more mentally "bright," etc.

You're a healthy guy in your early twenties...I def wouldn't hesitate to try less laser time and see if it works for you.

But we still need more hard data. Can other people try recording their sleep? It takes almost zero effort; just download Sleep As Android or the iPhone equivalent and then leave the phone or tablet on the bed during sleep.

Damn Ascendant, those sleeping patterns are weird. I'll download that Android app and check out my results.

[lostfalco]

I'm not so sure oxidative phosphorylation is a bad thing, if a result of mitochondrial uncoupling: http://www.oxphos.or...id=39&Itemid=75

ATP really isn't the only thing the focus should be on, red and infrared light also leads to a whole host of transcriptional factor activation, increased blood flow, oxygenation, etc. Even if somehow increased 'oxphos' was bad, the benefits of everything else would possibly be worth it.

But perhaps I'm way off here - I'm no biologist as of yet, haha.

Exactly Papa. There are a lot of things happening simultaneously with LLLT...maybe even a little something with interfacial H20. ;)

[EncyclopediaBrown]

1072 nm infrared light "Alzheimer's" helmet



http://www.scienceba...eimers-disease/

http://bioengineersa...s-dementia.html

http://daedalus2u.bl...ght-helmet.html

Effect of helmet on Parkinson's patient.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

[lostfalco]

I'm going to test this, can you tell me the specs on the halogen bulb? I want to match what you did exactly, here's the target list of bulbs:

http://www.target.co...-/N-5xsyqZ5dc3y

Sure man...this one. http://www.target.co...Slot=medium_1_1

Def not ideal but I was at Target and thought I'd try it out since Pollack has indicated that visible light works...though far infrared seems to be the best.

Edited by lostfalco, 13 November 2013 - 03:48 AM.

[Joe Cohen]

4 part video series of my review of LLLT http://selfhacked.co...review-of-lllt/

[rikelme]

4 part video series of my review of LLLT http://selfhacked.co...review-of-lllt/

Why don't you cover the light sensor with something? I used a post-it note, by cutting a small piece of it from a sticky part, colored it with a black sharpie and glued it onto the light sensor. That way you'll make sure LEDs will work even in a bright area.

[Joe Cohen]

4 part video series of my review of LLLT http://selfhacked.co...review-of-lllt/

Why don't you cover the light sensor with something? I used a post-it note, by cutting a small piece of it from a sticky part, colored it with a black sharpie and glued it onto the light sensor. That way you'll make sure LEDs will work even in a bright area.

What will that accomplish

[rikelme]

What will that accomplish

The light sensor on the device serves as a switch for the LEDs. When the ambient light level passes a certain threshold, the sensor reacts and turns the LEDs off. The idea behind the design is (I assume) to reduce the power consumption and increase the lifespan of the unit. During the day the camera has enough sunlight to work properly so IR light from the device is not needed at all (it's not called the LED night light for nothing...).

Covering the light sensor prevents it to shut the LEDs off during the day. If one wants to use the unit in daylight the sensor has to be covered, otherwise the device won't work at all.

Edited by rikelme, 14 November 2013 - 07:36 AM.

[Joe Cohen]

What will that accomplish

The light sensor on the device serves as a switch for the LEDs. When the ambient light level passes a certain threshold, the sensor reacts and turns the LEDs off. The idea behind the design is (I assume) to reduce the power consumption and increase the lifespan of the unit. During the day the camera has enough sunlight to work properly so IR light from the device is not needed at all (it's not called the LED night light for nothing...).

Covering the light sensor prevents it to shut the LEDs off during the day. If one wants to use the unit in daylight the sensor has to be covered, otherwise the device won't work at all.

Ah...But my hair blocks the sensor and I feel it's warm. And most importantly I notice an effect - so it's working. But I guess it can't hurt to cover the light sensor. Thanks.

[lostfalco]

How water behaves in space.

Edited by lostfalco, 14 November 2013 - 04:35 PM.

[rikelme]

Ah...But my hair blocks the sensor and I feel it's warm. And most importantly I notice an effect - so it's working. But I guess it can't hurt to cover the light sensor. Thanks.

Yes, I agree. You have dark hair which blocks the light to reach the sensor. Some people might be bald or might use the device on other parts of the body.

[Keynes]

Ah...But my hair blocks the sensor and I feel it's warm. And most importantly I notice an effect - so it's working. But I guess it can't hurt to cover the light sensor. Thanks.

Yes, I agree. You have dark hair which blocks the light to reach the sensor. Some people might be bald or might use the device on other parts of the body.

From what I've noticed this is a non-issue, it doesn't have to be completely dark for LEDs to activate and holding it against regular skin is more than enough. But I suppose that for different makes this might be different - I have a cheap one from HK.

[Godof Smallthings]

^Mine is also from Hong Kong, Keynes. Does yours not get hot after five minutes in the same spot?

Edited by Godof Smallthings, 15 November 2013 - 03:20 AM.

[lostfalco]

Full text pdf of a pregnenolone sulfate (PregS) article I mentioned a few months ago.
"This report describes a novel process of delayed onset potentiation whereby PregS approximately doubles the cell’s response to NMDA via a mechanism that is pharmacologically and kinetically distinct from rapid positive allosteric modulation by PregS. The number of functional cell surface NMDARs in cortical neurons increases 60 -100% within 10 min of exposure to PregS..."

""When combined with the effect of rapid positive allosteric modulation total enhancement of the NMDA response averages 200% but can reach up to 400% in a given neuron."

http://molpharm.aspe...085696.full.pdf

Pregnenolone sulfate has different effects than pregnenolone. Check out zrbarnes' research on it here. Very interesting substance. http://www.longecity...nolone-sulfate/

Edited by lostfalco, 15 November 2013 - 06:11 PM.

[Keynes]

^Mine is also from Hong Kong, Keynes. Does yours not get hot after five minutes in the same spot?

I've never had it in the same location for that long, but I could imagine it would. This is to be expected though, it is thermal radiation after all. It also gets noticeably warmer the longer it's been turned on. You could for instance do the same spot twice, 2,5 min each.

[megatron]

Could the lack of supplementing with NAC be part of the reason why overusing LLT (to some degree) leads to negative result?

[AscendantMind]

Could the lack of supplementing with NAC be part of the reason why overusing LLT (to some degree) leads to negative result?

That's the theory. I've just ordered some, so we shall see what happens.

[megatron]

Could the lack of supplementing with NAC be part of the reason why overusing LLT (to some degree) leads to negative result?

That's the theory. I've just ordered some, so we shall see what happens.

I'll try supplementing with NAC as well, because I've felt tired since I started. I don't know if i can entirely blame LLT for this, since I've had a poor period of sleep as well. It'll be interesting to see if it improves with NAC

Edited by Megatrone, 15 November 2013 - 07:46 PM.

[megatron]

Anyone else tried supplementing with NAC?

[Godof Smallthings]

Since two weeks back, I take NAC, vitamin C, zinc chelate and magnesium l threonate every morning, and 2.5 mg of lithium orotate every other day.

I take creatine every afternoon, and piracetam and ALCAR 'as needed'. Bacopa every day since 4 months (still no major effects experienced from that).

LLLT does not seem to make me tired anymore. After the very first session I was completely knackered, but then it has stabilized. As I wrote earlier in the thread, using the 48 LED device on my sore shoulder and then on the prefrontal cortex and premotor cortex followed by meditation caused the pain in the shoulder to completely disappear during the first part of the meditation - my whole body/mind were enveloped in a warm, cosy feeling, and then, after a whole night's sleep, the pain was gone and has not returned since. So I will definitely LED any other joint/muscle discomfort I experience.

No signs of improved cognition yet, as measured by my cognitive test results.

[lostfalco]

Relationship between dopamine, AMPA receptors, and NMDA receptors.
"Once dopamine is released in the hippocampus it leads at the postsynaptic level to i) an activation of D1/5R, PKA and downstream signalling, ii) an increase in protein synthesis, iii) an increase in surface GluA1-AMPA and GluN1-NMDA receptors, and iv) a modulation of NMDA receptor (NMDAR)-dependent synaptic plasticity."
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3765443/

Edited by lostfalco, 19 November 2013 - 05:07 PM.

[lostfalco]

Surface trafficking of NMDA receptors: Gathering from a partner to another.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24177014

"Although still in its infancy, we here review our current understanding of the cellular regulation of NMDA receptor surface dynamics. We specifically discuss the roles of well-known modulators, such as dopamine, and membrane interactors in these regulatory processes, exemplifying the recent evidence that the direct interaction between NMDAR and dopamine receptors regulates their surface diffusion and distribution."

Edited by lostfalco, 19 November 2013 - 05:42 PM.