4029 replies to this topic

[abelard lindsay]

I am against CILTEP. I don't think forskolin should be taken casually and by most people. It causes liver damage in a relatively normal dosing range and increases acetylcholinesterase. I figured the liver damage out because I felt a sensation in my liver area when I took it and so I googled it came across this study: http://www.ncbi.nlm....d/22729658. It also uncontrollably increased gastric secretions. I keep it around because it has its uses but I don't recommend it unless someone has a specific problem that can be helped by it.

I actually paid for full access to this study and read the details and posted my analysis here:

http://forum.natural...tty-liver/?p=40

They were feeding the mice 612mg/kg of the raw herb in order to cause liver problems. This is a huge amount. The mice fed 6.09mg/kg a day of the raw herb were fine. Also, the study said forskolin itself doesn't cause negative effects, it's all the extra stuff in the herb besides Forskolin.

A 20% purity coleus forskohlii extract of 20mg a day gives the recommended CILTEP dosage of forskolin of 4mg a day. This is a lot less than the 6.09 mg/kg a day they were feeding the mice who didn't have any problems in the study.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 17 January 2014 - 11:22 PM.

[BigPapaChakra]

I am against CILTEP. I don't think forskolin should be taken casually and by most people. It causes liver damage in a relatively normal dosing range and increases acetylcholinesterase. I figured the liver damage out because I felt a sensation in my liver area when I took it and so I googled it came across this study: http://www.ncbi.nlm....d/22729658. It also uncontrollably increased gastric secretions. I keep it around because it has its uses but I don't recommend it unless someone has a specific problem that can be helped by it.

I actually paid for full access to this study and read the details and posted my analysis here:

http://forum.natural...tty-liver/?p=40

They were feeding the mice 612mg/kg of the raw herb in order to cause liver problems. This is a huge amount. The mice fed 6.09mg/kg a day of the raw herb were fine. Also, the study said forskolin itself doesn't cause negative effects, it's all the extra stuff in the herb besides Forskolin.

A 20% purity coleus forskohlii extract of 20mg a day gives the recommended CILTEP dosage of forskolin of 4mg a day. This is a lot less than the 6.09 mg/kg a day they were feeding the mice who didn't have any problems in the study.

Thanks for all your work here man! I'm actually going to try CILTEP soon to aid in schoolwork and personal research, after I get some HRV training under my belt (just got the EmWave2 on Ebay for $16.16!!). What do you think about food sources of dopamine precursors? I've seen some things in the CILTEP thread indicating that various foods are high in l-phenylalanine, ironically foods I added back into my diet such as cheese and milk; also, Bill Lagako's (author/researcher, etc.) commented on something on Facebook claiming that depending on the sourcing chocolate is also high in l-phenylalanine (as well as copper and magnesium!) - may give Dave Asprey's chocolate a try just for this

[lostfalco]

Hey guys, sorry for not posting for a while. Due to life circumstances (good) I may have to limit my posting for a bit. Just wanted to give you guys a couple of quick things.

1. Take resistant starch! Joe Cohen was all over this back in June (where I first found out about it) and Richard Nikoley along with Tim Steele have been going crazy with this over at Freetheanimal.com. This stuff is awesome because it increases microbiota butyrate production which activates a whole suite of genes related to learning and memory (through HDAC inhibition) and reduces inflammation. Yes, our microbiome is an epigenetic "organ" that changes nuclear gene expression (at least it looks that way right now =)). Holy crap this stuff blows my mind! Props to Joe for introducing me to this idea. I've been using 4tbsp of this daily. http://www.amazon.co.../dp/B0013JOKBC/
Joe Cohen's Resistant Starch Diet http://selfhacked.co...or-weight-loss/
Richard's primer on resistant starch: http://freetheanimal...ewbies.html

2. I humbly recommend going forward with the Nicotinamide Riboside group buy. I dosed up to 1.25 grams (2 pills every two hours) of Niagen in a day and didn't have amazing mental energy, but it was very solid. I'd def be interested in seeing what higher doses might be capable of.

3. The ultrasound guys (Penrose and Hameroff) are at it again. This is getting VERY interesting.
http://www.kurzweila...f-consciousness
http://www.sciencedi...571064513001188

Hope you guys are doing great! I'll be lurking, so please keep posting. I'm really interested in hearing everyone's results with resistant starch. Joe is getting added to my list. Thanks man!


http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24286462

Genes Brain Behav. 2014 Jan;13(1):69-86. doi: 10.1111/gbb.12109. Epub 2013 Dec 27.
Microbial genes, brain & behaviour - epigenetic regulation of the gut-brain axis.
Stilling RM, Dinan TG, Cryan JF.
Author information

Abstract
To date, there is rapidly increasing evidence for host-microbe interaction at virtually all levels of complexity, ranging from direct cell-to-cell communication to extensive systemic signalling, and involving various organs and organ systems, including the central nervous system. As such, the discovery that differential microbial composition is associated with alterations in behaviour and cognition has significantly contributed to establishing the microbiota-gut-brain axis as an extension of the well-accepted gut-brain axis concept. Many efforts have been focused on delineating a role for this axis in health and disease, ranging from stress-related disorders such as depression, anxiety and irritable bowel syndrome to neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism. There is also a growing appreciation of the role of epigenetic mechanisms in shaping brain and behaviour. However, the role of epigenetics in informing host-microbe interactions has received little attention to date. This is despite the fact that there are many plausible routes of interaction between epigenetic mechanisms and the host-microbiota dialogue. From this new perspective we put forward novel, yet testable, hypotheses. Firstly, we suggest that gut-microbial products can affect chromatin plasticity within their host's brain that in turn leads to changes in neuronal transcription and eventually alters host behaviour. Secondly, we argue that the microbiota is an important mediator of gene-environment interactions. Finally, we reason that the microbiota itself may be viewed as an epigenetic entity. In conclusion, the fields of (neuro)epigenetics and microbiology are converging at many levels and more interdisciplinary studies are necessary to unravel the full range of this interaction.

Edited by lostfalco, 18 January 2014 - 12:53 AM.

[Joe Cohen]

Hey guys, sorry for not posting for a while. Due to life circumstances (good) I may have to limit my posting for a bit. Just wanted to give you guys a couple of quick things.

1. Take resistant starch! Joe Cohen was all over this back in June (where I first found out about it) and Richard Nikoley along with Tim Steele have been going crazy with this over at Freetheanimal.com. This stuff is awesome because it increases microbiota butyrate production which activates a whole suite of genes related to learning and memory (through HDAC inhibition) and reduces inflammation. Yes, our microbiome is an epigenetic "organ" that changes nuclear gene expression (at least it looks that way right now =)). Holy crap this stuff blows my mind! Props to Joe for introducing me to this idea. I've been using 4tbsp of this daily. http://www.amazon.co.../dp/B0013JOKBC/
Joe Cohen's Resistant Starch Diet http://selfhacked.co...or-weight-loss/
Richard's primer on resistant starch: http://freetheanimal...ewbies.html

2. I humbly recommend going forward with the Nicotinamide Riboside group buy. I dosed up to 1.25 grams (2 pills every two hours) of Niagen in a day and didn't have amazing mental energy, but it was very solid. I'd def be interested in seeing what higher doses might be capable of.

3. The ultrasound guys (Penrose and Hameroff) are at it again. This is getting VERY interesting.
http://www.kurzweila...f-consciousness
http://www.sciencedi...571064513001188

Hope you guys are doing great! I'll be lurking, so please keep posting. I'm really interested in hearing everyone's results with resistant starch. Joe is getting added to my list. Thanks man!


http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/24286462

Genes Brain Behav. 2014 Jan;13(1):69-86. doi: 10.1111/gbb.12109. Epub 2013 Dec 27.
Microbial genes, brain & behaviour - epigenetic regulation of the gut-brain axis.
Stilling RM, Dinan TG, Cryan JF.
Author information

Abstract
To date, there is rapidly increasing evidence for host-microbe interaction at virtually all levels of complexity, ranging from direct cell-to-cell communication to extensive systemic signalling, and involving various organs and organ systems, including the central nervous system. As such, the discovery that differential microbial composition is associated with alterations in behaviour and cognition has significantly contributed to establishing the microbiota-gut-brain axis as an extension of the well-accepted gut-brain axis concept. Many efforts have been focused on delineating a role for this axis in health and disease, ranging from stress-related disorders such as depression, anxiety and irritable bowel syndrome to neurodevelopmental disorders such as autism. There is also a growing appreciation of the role of epigenetic mechanisms in shaping brain and behaviour. However, the role of epigenetics in informing host-microbe interactions has received little attention to date. This is despite the fact that there are many plausible routes of interaction between epigenetic mechanisms and the host-microbiota dialogue. From this new perspective we put forward novel, yet testable, hypotheses. Firstly, we suggest that gut-microbial products can affect chromatin plasticity within their host's brain that in turn leads to changes in neuronal transcription and eventually alters host behaviour. Secondly, we argue that the microbiota is an important mediator of gene-environment interactions. Finally, we reason that the microbiota itself may be viewed as an epigenetic entity. In conclusion, the fields of (neuro)epigenetics and microbiology are converging at many levels and more interdisciplinary studies are necessary to unravel the full range of this interaction.

Thanks LF.

I bought the Niagen after reading a study released by Sinclair and then saw some guy posting about the Niagen here. I would like to second positive effects from it - especially mito effects. I'd like to experiment with it more to confirm but so far so good. Oxaloacetate also has a positive mito effects for me. OA seems to have a more lasting effect. It's interesting that
PQQ, NAD, OA, and Resveratrol among many others mitochondrial enhancers have effects that differ from one to the other. Many herbs also have some good effects. Gynostemma (day time), Eleuthero (before bed) both by paradise herbals. PQQ is still my favorite, though I like them all.

[Raz007]

Hey guys ! just wanted to share with you the amazing change I'm experiencing with the LLLT.

I'm doing LLLT for around 3 month now- and the results keep amaze me. I didn't really realize how
Significant they actually were until today evening- as we had a social event and I meet a couple of guys
That I talk with a week ago.. and not only I remember all the names perfectly- but I recall exactly what this
person has told me, what he was specialized in and when he did it. As the conversations went on-
I felt unbelievable.My brain spit out every piece of information about this specific specialization with
the person with whom I talked to.. and it wasn't little. Soon people start to gather around.. I was kind of
afraid of that as I never use to be in the center of conversation- but I couldn't help it- the conversation
flow so smoothly as my brain connect the dots for me before I even realize that. And all the mentioned
has happened in a language that is not my native language, which makes it even more remarkable.

That being said- it took me some time to tune-up the LLLT routine, it's ongoing process . However, so far
the modification I did to the TULIP protocol are these :

[ all these ingredients were deeply researched beforehand. But more importantly, I've figure out the optimal dosage,
way of administration and optimal time of consumption according to the pharmacokinetics propeties of the substances. ]

[ only in days of LLLT ]
- 5g curcumine + 2g black pepper - both need to be dissolved in oil. preferably olive oil or fish oil
- 2g cinnamon - Need to be dissolved with a little hot water, and let sit for a while.
- 20 drops of diluted Methylene blue
- 10mg noopept
- 60mg Ginkgo Biloba ( pill )
- 200mg CoQ 10 ( pill )

All this need to be taken 1.5 - 2 hours before the LLLT treatment, as this is the peak concentration in the blood
of most of the mentioned agents.

All these agents are basically serve for their neuro-protective properties, that literally `buy some time` ,in order to prolong the time-per-spot

Edited by Raz007, 18 January 2014 - 01:50 AM.

[Joe Cohen]

I am against CILTEP. I don't think forskolin should be taken casually and by most people. It causes liver damage in a relatively normal dosing range and increases acetylcholinesterase. I figured the liver damage out because I felt a sensation in my liver area when I took it and so I googled it came across this study: http://www.ncbi.nlm....d/22729658. It also uncontrollably increased gastric secretions. I keep it around because it has its uses but I don't recommend it unless someone has a specific problem that can be helped by it.

I actually paid for full access to this study and read the details and posted my analysis here:

http://forum.natural...tty-liver/?p=40

They were feeding the mice 612mg/kg of the raw herb in order to cause liver problems. This is a huge amount. The mice fed 6.09mg/kg a day of the raw herb were fine. Also, the study said forskolin itself doesn't cause negative effects, it's all the extra stuff in the herb besides Forskolin.

A 20% purity coleus forskohlii extract of 20mg a day gives the recommended CILTEP dosage of forskolin of 4mg a day. This is a lot less than the 6.09 mg/kg a day they were feeding the mice who didn't have any problems in the study.

All I know is that my liver wasn't happy after popping 2 pills, which equaled 250mg of coleus. I agree that having a more concentrated form will ameliorate the issue. Anyway, I wasn't that happy with the effect from it. But everybody's different. I'm sure it helps many people.

[Nattzor]

Hmm, might be able to get someone to test DNA damage/oxidative stress on LLLT, LLLT + MB and nothing at all.

Will obv update if it happens.

Edited by Nattzor, 19 January 2014 - 11:17 AM.

[turchin]

If LLLT works so great, is it possible to suggest that in countries with high solar insulation people who spent a lot of time outdoor could get a lot of light stimulation of their heads by the Sun in all light specters and some of its energy even go inside the scull and stimulate neurons?. And this explain why southern people seems to be less depressed them northern people?

[lostfalco]

Why (I think) we should all listen to Joe and take resistant starch. =)


I am having to rethink everything that I put into my body!

[Skippy88]

So I'm pretty eager to give this a try, but I can't seem to find any LED with a European power socket, or USB or something. Any help?

[Barfly]

So I'm pretty eager to give this a try, but I can't seem to find any LED with a European power socket, or USB or something. Any help?

You just need a 12v power adapter, here you can buy some for 6 $:

http://www.ebay.com/...=item53fc97461f


I am using this lamp for 4 months now:

http://www.ebay.com/...=item4ac7a1f375

And I am powering it with the adapter I got with my siemens router without any problem, so I am pretty sure you already have what you need at home and if not it really isn't much of an investment.

Hope that helps, gl

[Skippy88]

And, how are the results?

[Barfly]

Well, this has been one of the best discoveries since I started the nootropic journey; most notably my thinking speed and "depth" increased dramatically, I am studying a lot using mnemonic techniques and since starting LLLT I amaze myself everyday with speed and creativity of my mnemonic associations, also some long forgotten memories are spontaneously surfacing in my everyday life and I am able to analyze things and connect ideas much more easily which comes great in the form of therapy/self improvement I am currently doing and all of that for one time investment of 35$ it cost to buy the lamp

[Jochen]

Why (I think) we should all listen to Joe and take resistant starch. =)
http://youtu.be/FWT_BLVOASI

I am having to rethink everything that I put into my body!

awesome, missed that TEDx talk. really interesting stuff.

Will check out the RS topic a bit more in depth.

[Jochen]

Has anyone tried Bionasal LLT?

I have bitten the bullet and bought a Vielight 810 nm.
Will post my findings.

Here is some (biased) research about the topic: http://www.medicligh...potential-1.pdf

http://www.mediclights.com (same company that created the Vielight) has a lot more information.

Looking forward to working with some people to find out more about the topic.

[Jochen]

have spoken to one of the mediclights guys and he told me I could share this book only with people who have a deep interest and scientific backgrounds.... so I guess that is you folks :-)

This book is from the science advisor at mediclights.

https://www.dropbox....ined) 02-12.pdf

hope this link works... let me know if it doesn't.

[Skippy88]

So do the effects of this remain constant over time or is there a decrease and a buildup of tolerance or a plateau or something?

Secondly, next to PQQ, CoQ10 and Shilajit, which supplements would you advise in taking with this, based on cost vs. effectiveness criteria?

[JustAMan]

Well, this has been one of the best discoveries since I started the nootropic journey; most notably my thinking speed and "depth" increased dramatically, I am studying a lot using mnemonic techniques and since starting LLLT I amaze myself everyday with speed and creativity of my mnemonic associations, also some long forgotten memories are spontaneously surfacing in my everyday life and I am able to analyze things and connect ideas much more easily which comes great in the form of therapy/self improvement I am currently doing and all of that for one time investment of 35$ it cost to buy the lamp

How were you using the lamp? Time per area, how often per day, how often per week, distance between head and lamp, etc.

[Barfly]

Well, this has been one of the best discoveries since I started the nootropic journey; most notably my thinking speed and "depth" increased dramatically, I am studying a lot using mnemonic techniques and since starting LLLT I amaze myself everyday with speed and creativity of my mnemonic associations, also some long forgotten memories are spontaneously surfacing in my everyday life and I am able to analyze things and connect ideas much more easily which comes great in the form of therapy/self improvement I am currently doing and all of that for one time investment of 35$ it cost to buy the lamp

How were you using the lamp? Time per area, how often per day, how often per week, distance between head and lamp, etc.

I am using a 96 LED lamp, started with 1 min per spot and built up to 5 minutes for a while but in the end I decided that 2 min were the sweet spot for me as I couldn't recognize any benefits for using it longer and there might even be detrimental effects plus it was impractical to hold the lamp for 35 minutes.

I removed the glass of the lamp and press it firmly against my head on all areas besides the back of my head (Joe Cohen noticed that there are mostly optic nerves in the back so no much benefit to stimulate it) and I am using it 3 times per week before bed, mostly Mon Wed Fri

Hope that helps

[montana2012]

It's almost like tolerance builds up with LLLT. I don't even get the sides anymore. No benefits either. Maybe I should use the Vetrolaser.

Edited by montana2012, 25 January 2014 - 07:30 PM.

[Joe Cohen]

This Preservative Can Make You Healthier and Smarter

[montana2012]

How is Modafinil not neurotoxic?

http://www.ncbi.nlm....07/#!po=46.0000

"In this pilot study, modafinil acutely increased dopamine levels and blocked dopamine transporters in the human brain. Because drugs that increase dopamine have the potential for abuse, and considering the increasing use of modafinil for multiple purposes, these results suggest that risk for addiction in vulnerable persons merits heightened awareness."

http://www.wired.com.../modafinilrisk/

"Researchers have found that people taking modafinil experience a surge of dopamine, an important cognitive neurotransmitter. Such dopamine upswings are seen in people taking Ritalin, and are considered a chemical signature of possible addictiveness."



These articles suggest it affects the limbic/dopaminergic system in a similar manner an amphetamine would.
- Does it mean it's Ca++ excitotoxic then?
- Does it produce significant amounts of hydroxidopamine? ( Autooxidation )
- Does it downregulate the DAT and D1, D2 receptors?
- Does it damage neuronal terminals long term?

I am no expert and it could be that my questions have been answered before OR stupid, so excuse me.

Best,
Steve

Edited by montana2012, 27 January 2014 - 02:08 PM.

[lostfalco]

Excellent summary of the current state of research on the brain-gut-microbiome connection...um, I think I may have just had a Kuhnian paradigm shift over the past couple of months (maybe)!
http://mrheisenbug.w...brain-on-fiber/

Edited by lostfalco, 27 January 2014 - 03:22 PM.

[Nattzor]

Excellent summary of the current state of research on the brain-gut-microbiome connection...um, I think I may have just had a Kuhnian paradigm shift over the past couple of months (maybe)!
http://mrheisenbug.w...brain-on-fiber/

The whole blog is awesome, recommend everyone to read more posts in it.

[Jochen]

just started reading through the blog and it is very interesting indeed!

[lostfalco]

Excellent summary of the current state of research on the brain-gut-microbiome connection...um, I think I may have just had a Kuhnian paradigm shift over the past couple of months (maybe)!
http://mrheisenbug.w...brain-on-fiber/

The whole blog is awesome, recommend everyone to read more posts in it.

Totally agreed. Very well thought out guy.

Here's a full-text pdf from Nature that also gives an excellent overview. http://www.wlab.gu.s...rmicro_2013.pdf

[Godof Smallthings]

Ok, looks like it is high time for more plant fibers and selected probiotics to enter the Godof diet.

Thanks for yet another thought-provoking find lostfalco!

[Nattzor]

Ok, looks like it is high time for more plant fibers and selected probiotics to enter the Godof diet.

Thanks for yet another thought-provoking find lostfalco!

I recommend to start with a broad spectrum like kefir and such.

[Godof Smallthings]

Thanks Nattzor! I found a probiotic yoghurt in the supermarket today, so I plan to start with one of those every day for a week and see if I notice any changes.

I also considered ordering this to try - http://www.iherb.com...Vcaps-Ice/19518 - thoughts or experiences?

[hephaestus]

I just bought a bottle of this stuff from amazon:

http://www.amazon.co...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Started adding a tbsp of potato starch to my morning soylent.