280 replies to this topic

[Turnbuckle]

Background: I’ve been using PQQ for more than two years and C60 in EVOO for more than one. The effects were dramatic by several measures, with C60 being rather more dramatic. I’ve documented the effects and a working hypothesis for C60 on my profile page, and the hypothesis on this thread.


Reason for use: Spermidine has been linked to hair growth, arterial health, longevity, epithelial stem cell modulation, and autophagy activation. Autophagy, in particular, ought to mesh well with enhanced mito biogenesis due to PQQ and enhanced mito functioning due to C60 by eliminating poorly functioning mitochondria.

A week ago I began drinking grapefruit juice for the spermidine content. Within a day my skin looked better and I could lift slightly more weight in the gym. I didn’t get this effect from any other fruit juice even though they have spermidine as well, but apparently not as much.

I decided to try larger doses, so I obtained pure spermidine for trials. I will report back whenever I have anything interesting, but so far so good.


DAY ONE: One hour after taking 30 mg mixed in grapefruit juice, I felt no different, but I found I could lift substantially more weight on the Nautilus machines, and surprisingly, the knee pain I'd been feeling in both knees on the leg extension machine was completely gone and I was able to double the weight without even a twinge. This knee pain was not severe, but bothersome, and had lasted a couple of months.


Schedule: My intention is not to take spermidine every day, but perhaps once or twice a week. My C60 use is 2 mg once a week, and PQQ is 10 mg twice a week.


Sources: Spermidine isn’t widely available, but I did find these sources:

PhytoTechnology 1g/5g—$18.85/$71.85
Sigma-Aldrich 1g/5g—38.80/135.50
The Lab Depot 1g/5g—67.50/204.40

The material looks like paraffin at room temperate, but is glassy hard and smells strongly of semen. It readily melts in a warm water bath and is highly soluble in water.

[Adamzski]

That is rather extreme and I will look at it more. there is a lot of research and articles on this.

Gay men always seem to look younger, I'm often really surprised to learn their ages. A girl that I was with for three years was a heavy consumer of the stuff, she is 30 now and looks crazy young for her age, she looks 22 for sure, when we were together she was on 1-2 doses per day.

Could you produce this supplement yourself?

[zorba990]

Interesting. Do you know anything about its breakdown properties? Could it be dissolved in water and put in a spray? I wonder how much the nutribiotic GSE has.

[1kgcoffee]

I've always wondered what gave semen its pungent odour and suspected spermidine after first learning about it. This seems to be affirm that.
Oh and I can also vouge for the skin glow and strength promoting effect of grapefruit peel.


Look forward to hearing your results.

Edited by 1kgcoffee, 03 May 2013 - 09:19 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Could it be dissolved in water and put in a spray?

You could, but the stuff smells like semen (where it was first discovered).

[Dominicus]

Why is this stuff not yet available as a supplement. I keep reading how its good for all sorts of things and increases life span, youth, vigor.

All I got say is, "Shut up and take my money" ...to the first person that has this a supplement.

[Turnbuckle]

Could you produce this supplement yourself?

Sure, and you could horde it like General Jack Ripper in Dr. Stranglove: "Women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, Mandrake. But I do deny them my essence."

[zorba990]

Growth of duodenum and pancreas is this a good thing? http://agris.fao.org...ml;US1997053106

[niner]

Growth of duodenum and pancreas is this a good thing? http://agris.fao.org...ml;US1997053106

Well, these were chicks, so they're supposed to grow. It was also dosed as a percentage of diet, ranging from .05% up to 1%. I'm not sure how to relate that to a human dose, but it sounds like the chicks were probably getting a pretty big dose, relative to what Turnbuckle's taking.

Turnbuckle, how did you decide on 30mg?

[Adamzski]

Could you produce this supplement yourself?

Sure, and you could horde it like General Jack Ripper in Dr. Stranglove: "Women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, Mandrake. But I do deny them my essence."

Well to think of this amazing sup I have wasted or given away for years..

[Adamzski]

Chemical composition of sperm … … (In mg/100 ml)
Ammonia … … … … … … … … … … … 2
Ascoric Acid … … … … … … … … …… 12.8
Ash … … … … … … … … … … … … … .. 9.9%
Calcium … … … … … … … … … … ……. 25
Carbon Dioxide … … … … .. … … … …. 54 ml/100 ml
Chloride … … … … … … … … … …… … 155
Cholesterol … … … … … … … … ……… 80
Citric acid … … … … … … … … ……….. 376
Creatine … … … … … … … … … ……. .. 20
Ergothioneine … … … … … … ………… Trace
Fructose … … … … … … … … … ……… 224
Glutathione … … … … … … … … …….. 30
Glycerylphorylcholine … … …. … … . 54-90
Inositol … … … … … … … … … … … … 50.57
Lactic Acid … … … … … … … … … ….. 35
Magnesium … … … … … … … … …….. 14
Nitrogen, nonprotein (total) …. … …. 913
Phosphorus, acid-soluble … ….. … …. 57
Inorganic … … … … … … … … … …….. 11
Lipids … … … … … … … … … … … … … 6
Total (lipid) … … … … … … … … … ….. 112
Phosphorylcholine … … … … … … … .. 250-380
Potassium … … … … … … … … … …… . 89
Pyruvic Acid … … … … … … … … …… . 29
Sodium … … … … … … … … … … …… .. 281
Sorbitol … … … … … … … … … … … ….. 10
Vitamin B 12 … … … … … ….. … ….. ….. 300-600 ppg
Sulfur … … … … … … … … … … … … ….. 3% (of ash)
Urea … … … … … … … … … … … … …. .. 72
Uric acid … … … … … … … … … … ….. .. 6
Zinc … … … … … … … … … … … …… … 14
Copper … … … … … … … ….. ….. .. … … 006 to .024
The chemical composition of sperm that benefit the body are as follows:

• Calcium
  This composition is very useful for bones and teeth and even to maintain muscle and nerve function.
• Citric acid
  Useful to prevent blood clotting in the body
• Creatine
  Useful to increase energy and formation of muscle and also acts as a fat burner
• Ergothioneine
  Function as protection of skin from DNA damage
• Fructose
  Can serve as a digestive sugar in the body which is very useful for the prevention of diabetes. Most Fructose is also dangerous because it can cause the disease gout.
• Glutathione
  This chemical composition is very useful as a cancer preventive drugs, prevent blood clotting during surgery and increase the efficacy of chemotherapy drugs.
• Inositol
  Function to prevent hair loss in hair
• Lactic Acid
  Serves as a material for burns and surgical wounds
• Lipid
  Functions as a fat burner
• Pyruvic Acid
  Functioning as fertilising
• Sorbitol
  Used by pharmacists as a material to overcome constipation
• Urea
  Serves to remove excess nitrogen in the body
• Uric Acid
  Useful for the prevention of diabetes but most of uric acid would be caused disease gout, etc.
• Sulfur
  Useful for smoothing the skin.
• Vitamin B12
  As an addition to stamin
• Zinc
  Useful as an acne drug

All of the above substances is an important substances which is very beneficial for the body, and is used for a variety of healing medicines.

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle, how did you decide on 30mg?

It was about 5 times the dose used with in the hair growth paper (which was continuous, not a single dose). I will probably cut it by 2 next time I try it. Another paper mentioning doses is here.

[blueinfinity]

interesting, would like to hear more

[Turnbuckle]

DAY TWO: I hadn't planned on taking it again so soon, as I wanted to see if there would be any long-lasting epigenetic effects. This morning the disappearance of knee pain continued (spermidine is known to inhibit inflammation), but I did feel heavy walking the dogs and I had nowhere near the enthusiasm at the gym, so I decided to take it again, this time reducing the dose to 10 mg. Within minutes I had a pulse of energy again and went out and did yard work for a couple of hours.

Note that this is a very small dose to have any effect at all. The average daily intake of spermidine has been estimated to be around 13 mg, and it's also manufactured by the body and in the gut by microorganisms. The total body content is much larger.

The average estimated polyamine intakes for adults in countries surveyed to date are: 211,910 nmol/day putrescine, 86,959 nmol/day spermidine, and 54,704 nmol/day spermine.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2848593

[adamh]

Very interesting. How much grapefruit juice did you drink to get a benefit so soon? Was it white or pink gf juice? I think i'd rater get the benefit that way than a supplement.

Do gay men live longer? I never heard that so i'm wondering if its mostly an appearance difference?

[Hebbeh]

Do gay men live longer? I never heard that so i'm wondering if its mostly an appearance difference?

If that is true, perhaps that could be an explanation for women having longer life expectancies also?

[niner]

How much spermidine is there in semen, anyway? Maybe giving free BJs to all the guys you know isn't really that big of a win compared to, say, canned corn. Here are values in nmol for various foods, from Table 1 of the polyamine database paper.

Corn (fresh/canned) ½ cup 137,682/221,111^a
Green pea soup 1 cup 65,552
Pear 1 medium 60,756
Cheese enchilada 1 medium 48,770
Tempeh 3 oz 42,618
Soy burgers 1 39,616
Peas (fresh/canned) ½ cup 35,9 20/38,165^a
Lentil soup 1 cup 37,117
Pasta with meat sauce 1 cup 36,059
Tofu hotdog 1 27,121

Spermidine is 145g/m, so here's how to convert these numbers to grams, using canned corn as the example:

221,111nm * (1e-9 m/nm) * 145g/m = 0.032g

Edited by niner, 05 May 2013 - 02:40 AM.

[AgeVivo]

A week ago I began drinking grapefruit juice (***). Within a day my skin looked better and I could lift slightly more weight in the gym

To be honest with you this grapefruit juice makes me laugh a little as it is not a known effect despite many grapefruit drinkers and eaters and "(***)" could also represent "for the sugar it contains".

Other than this small thing spermidine mouse life extension looks serious to me and I find your efforts very interesting, MacD is setting high standards for personal tests (in his case with c60), perhaps something to follow partly.

Edited by AgeVivo, 05 May 2013 - 02:47 AM.

[mikey]

Very interesting. How much grapefruit juice did you drink to get a benefit so soon? Was it white or pink gf juice? I think i'd rater get the benefit that way than a supplement.

Do gay men live longer? I never heard that so i'm wondering if its mostly an appearance difference?

I remember seeing data showing that those who consumer grapefruit regularly have something like 17 times more potential to experience kidney stones, probably because of its high oxalic acid content, kidney stones being most calcium oxalate.

[Turnbuckle]

Very interesting. How much grapefruit juice did you drink to get a benefit so soon? Was it white or pink gf juice? I think i'd rater get the benefit that way than a supplement.

About three eight ounce servings a day of Ocean Spray white grapefruit juice with "no sugar added." (I added a good deal of saccharine, however.) The label says it has 17g sugar per 8oz.

By comparison, from a list here, sugar per 8 oz--

5. Most brands selling Pomegranate--34 to 36 grams.
4. R&W Knudsen Pineapple coconut and Chadwick’s Bay Prickly Pear Lemonade--37 grams.
3. Safeway brand (regular/purple/concord) Grape--39 grams.
2. Welches brand White Grape Juice--40 grams.
1. Chadwick Bay Natural Sweet Cherry Juice--52 grams.

Apple juice was 28 and orange juice was 22-24.

A week ago I began drinking grapefruit juice (***). Within a day my skin looked better and I could lift slightly more weight in the gym

To be honest with you this grapefruit juice makes me laugh a little as it is not a known effect despite many grapefruit drinkers and eaters and "(***)" could also represent "for the sugar it contains".

See above re sugar. Then google grapefruit juice skin benefits and you will get many hits. But spermidine may not be the source of the benefits--

Inhibition of cytochrome P450 by furanocoumarins in grapefruit juice and herbal medicines.

Furanocoumarins (psoralens) exist in various plants and some of them are used to cure skin diseases. These chemicals draw attentions recently because of their abilities to arouse drug interaction through inhibition of cytochrome P450. Grapefruit juice is a well-known example for food-drug interaction. But in vitro and in vivo studies have shown that the causative components are mainly furanocoumarin derivatives with geranyloxy side chains. In vitro experiments confirmed that furanocoumarins from grapefruit juice are both competitive and mechanism-based inhibitors of CYP3A4. Although the inhibition appeared to be stronger in the dimers than that in the monomers, all contribute comprehensively to the grapefruit juice-drug interaction. Further experiments with other furanocoumarins and related citrus fruits or umbelliferous herbal medicines indicate that drug interaction might also occur with stuffs other than grapefruit juice, especially with traditional medicine.

http://www.chinaphar...4083/25/129.pdf

Edited by Turnbuckle, 05 May 2013 - 11:57 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

I remember seeing data showing that those who consumer grapefruit regularly have something like 17 times more potential to experience kidney stones, probably because of its high oxalic acid content, kidney stones being most calcium oxalate.

At least by this paper, it's 37% worse, not 17 times worse (1,700%). It's slightly worse than apple juice.

After mutually adjusting for the intake of other beverages, the risk of stone formation decreased by the following amount for each 240-ml (8-oz) serving consumed daily: caffeinated coffee, 10% (95% confidence interval 4-15%); decaffeinated coffee, 10% (3-16%); tea, 14% (5-22%); beer, 21% (12-30%); and wine, 39% (10-58%).

For each 240-ml serving consumed daily, the risk of stone formation increased by 35% (4-75%) for apple juice and 37% (1-85%) for grapefruit juice.

Grapefruit juice is actually considered to be low in oxalate, while tea and beer are considered to be high.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 05 May 2013 - 12:31 PM.

[AgeVivo]

google grapefruit juice skin benefits and you will get many hits

my bad I thought we were talking of grape juice.

Yes grapefruit has strong actions on liver cytochromes and therefore if you are taking drugs or strong supplements it is better not to take too much grapefruit juice (unless you know what you are doing). If I understand correctly, taking spermidine alone should avoid that effect, right?

[Turnbuckle]

The spermidine levels of many foods are listed in the below paper. Dried soybeans have the most--128-207 mg/kg.

A review of dietary polyamines: Formation, implications for
growth and health and occurrence in foods

Legumes, mainly soybean, pear, cauli-
flower and broccoli belong to food items with the
highest spermidine content, usually above 30 mg/kg
.
The same foods, mainly legumes, also have the highest
spermine level. Moreover, the increased content of
polyamines were reported by Okamoto et al. (1997) and
Yen (1986) for several Chinese and Japanese fermented
soy products.

http://kch.zf.jcu.cz...y/2005-0230.pdf

Meats have much lower levels. Beef in particular, has only 1-2% of the spermidine found in soybeans.

Edited by Turnbuckle, 05 May 2013 - 12:55 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Yes grapefruit has strong actions on liver cytochromes and therefore if you are taking drugs or strong supplements it is better not to take too much grapefruit juice (unless you know what you are doing). If I understand correctly, taking spermidine alone should avoid that effect, right?

Right. But perhaps there is some synergy between spermidine and furanocoumarins, in which case a bowl of dried soybeans and a glass of grapefruit juice would provide a pre-workout power snack.

[Ch!ggy]

Hi,

I'm looking at buying some from the Sigma-Aldrich site, is Spermidine freebase the correct compound ?

Thanks,

Chiggy.

Edited by Ch!ggy, 05 May 2013 - 07:21 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

I'm looking at buying some from the Sigma-Aldrich site, is Spermidine freebase the correct compound ?

Yes. And for those who haven't bought from Sigma, they are very particular about their customers and will vet you before a first sale.

DAY THREE: Half an hour after taking 50 mg spermidine in grapefruit juice, I felt a great deal of energy. Not jittery at all. This has lasted 7 hours now and is still going.

[Ch!ggy]

Thanks Turnbuckle. What kind of questions are they likely to ask me, obviously I am not conducting experiements on mice.

[Turnbuckle]

Thanks Turnbuckle. What kind of questions are they likely to ask me, obviously I am not conducting experiements on mice.

They want you to be a university or chemical or research company that they can verify. They sell stuff like LSD, so they're not going to sell to anyone.

[Ch!ggy]

Oh dear, I will have to choose another supplier then, thanks.

[tintinet]

I eat about 15 lbs of fresh broccoli and a pound of black soybeans a week, so I may have been getting some all along. I'm not venturing near the carnivore/cannibal route, thanks.