280 replies to this topic

[8bitmore]

wait, what ? using radiation to keep the grapefruit red ? lol wtf. did you guys know this ? this is not good news. imagine how much radiation we consumed with the grapefruits. i wonder if radiation also had an effect on the spermidine....

No need to wait/what it - the radiation triggering of the right genes is applied to parent plants from which subsequent plants are then derived for growing food/grapes for consumption. You are unlikely to receive more than the normal amount of background radiation from drinking that ol' juice

[hav]

DAY SIX: 30 mg spermidine in grapefruit juice. I didn't go to the gym, but running seemed somewhat easier than normal.

Curious if you notice any change in you blood pressure.

Howard

[Turnbuckle]

DAY SIX: 30 mg spermidine in grapefruit juice. I didn't go to the gym, but running seemed somewhat easier than normal.

Curious if you notice any change in you blood pressure.

Howard

None noted so far. In the 90's there was some work done with polyamine analogues like diethylhomospermine that "resulted in a profound and long-lasting drop in the test animals' blood pressure, with no appreciable change in their heart rate." Unfortunately, it didn't make it past a phase 1 trial. I'd love to find something that would work so I could stop taking proprananol, which makes it difficult to get my heart rate up.

[dislocation]

wait, what ? using radiation to keep the grapefruit red ? lol wtf. did you guys know this ? this is not good news. imagine how much radiation we consumed with the grapefruits. i wonder if radiation also had an effect on the spermidine....

No need to wait/what it - the radiation triggering of the right genes is applied to parent plants from which subsequent plants are then derived for growing food/grapes for consumption. You are unlikely to receive more than the normal amount of background radiation from drinking that ol' juice

well, seeing the word "radiation" in association to anything thats consumable i get a bit on the defensive. who knows, perhaps its some normal method of plant hybridation but ever opened grapefruit ? the seeds are a mush inside. if anything, must be radiation to blame. the seeds are usually all over the place which is unnatural. some are big, some really small, but most all over the place bursted apart. something must be doing this if not radiation....

[niner]

well, seeing the word "radiation" in association to anything thats consumable i get a bit on the defensive.

The radiation they use is like an x-ray. Once it's turned off, there's no more radiation. It's like flipping a light switch- when you turn out the light, there's no more light. Light is also radiation. It's just a less energetic photon than the ones they use to trigger mutations in seeds. So the grapefruit isn't radioactive. You could argue that the proteins produced by the irradiated seeds are unnatural and potentially dangerous, but the same mutations occur in nature, only at a slower rate.

[Logic]

DAY SIX: 30 mg spermidine in grapefruit juice. I didn't go to the gym, but running seemed somewhat easier than normal.

Curious if you notice any change in you blood pressure.

Howard

None noted so far. In the 90's there was some work done with polyamine analogues like diethylhomospermine that "resulted in a profound and long-lasting drop in the test animals' blood pressure, with no appreciable change in their heart rate." Unfortunately, it didn't make it past a phase 1 trial. I'd love to find something that would work so I could stop taking proprananol, which makes it difficult to get my heart rate up.

Have you considered opening up your arteries/veins with chelation therapy/chelators and AGE blockes/breakers? (which seem to be the same thing)

http://www.longecity...rapy-with-edta/

http://www.longecity...aminoguanidine/

[Turnbuckle]

DAY SIX: 30 mg spermidine in grapefruit juice. I didn't go to the gym, but running seemed somewhat easier than normal.

Curious if you notice any change in you blood pressure.

Howard

None noted so far. In the 90's there was some work done with polyamine analogues like diethylhomospermine that "resulted in a profound and long-lasting drop in the test animals' blood pressure, with no appreciable change in their heart rate." Unfortunately, it didn't make it past a phase 1 trial. I'd love to find something that would work so I could stop taking proprananol, which makes it difficult to get my heart rate up.

Have you considered opening up your arteries/veins with chelation therapy/chelators and AGE blockes/breakers? (which seem to be the same thing)

http://www.longecity...rapy-with-edta/

http://www.longecity...aminoguanidine/

Thank you. I've tried oral EDTA and ellagic acid, and neither had any impact on my blood pressure.

This morning I tried 100 mg spermidine (the biggest dose yet), and while my bp dropped by ten points within 20 minutes, it recovered to what it was over the next hour or two.

[mikey]

guys since this is on topic with grapefruit too im worried to what i read on wikipedia about the red variety that is actually the tastier, better quality;

Only with the introduction of the Ruby Red did the grapefruit transform into a real agricultural success. The Red grapefruit, starting with the Ruby Red, has even become a symbolic fruit of Texas, where white "inferior" grapefruit were eliminated and only red grapefruit were grown for decades. Using radiation to trigger mutations, new varieties were developed to retain the red tones which typically faded to pink.

wait, what ? using radiation to keep the grapefruit red ? lol wtf. did you guys know this ? this is not good news. imagine how much radiation we consumed with the grapefruits. i wonder if radiation also had an effect on the spermidine....

Or increased risk of kidney stones...

[Turnbuckle]

The red variety of grapefruit was actually an accidental mutation found in a grove in south Texas in the 20's. Later work made it even redder by creating mutations with radiation--a primitive GM technique with results that are random. The radiation is nothing to worry about. It's been used since the beginning of life on earth.

[dislocation]

so it was used radiation only once to create the variety and then just collect the red fruit or do you have to radiate the fruits each season to get them as red as they should be ?

and for spermidine, you just use it for excercise ? doesnt have some other noticable effect, maybe some stimulation, sedation, some cognitive related function ?

Edited by dislocation, 11 May 2013 - 01:19 AM.

[Turnbuckle]

so it was used radiation only once to create the variety and then just collect the red fruit or do you have to radiate the fruits each season to get them as red as they should be ?

and for spermidine, you just use it for excercise ? doesnt have some other noticable effect, maybe some stimulation, sedation, some cognitive related function ?

The technique is to create many random mutations with radiation (or chemicals) and to plant the seeds and select the traits you want. Obviously this is a lot of work and takes a lot of time, but once you have a change in the DNA, it is permanent. Star Ruby grapefruit was developed this way in the 50's, and gamma radiation has been investigated as a method of preserving and disinfecting the fruit (and many other foods), but hasn't been approved.

Spermidine holds the promise of longer life through increased autophagy and mitochondrial health, hair color restoration, faster hair growth, and better skin. The boost I saw in the gym was unexpected but was assurance it was doing something. It's really too early to tell as I'm only into my second week, but I'd say that the hair color restoration is not working out. I don't see any change in that. My skin is definitely improved, but I don't know if it was from spermidine in the grapefruit juice or something else in the juice. I didn't previously see it with OJ, and that has spermidine too. I've seen a minor and temporary lowering of blood pressure, and I've seen that C60 and spermidine shouldn't be taken together--at least from the way I felt in the gym.

http://www.landesbio...adeoAUTO6-1.pdf

Edited by Turnbuckle, 11 May 2013 - 11:19 AM.

[hav]

Have you considered opening up your arteries/veins with chelation therapy/chelators and AGE blockes/breakers? (which seem to be the same thing)

http://www.longecity...rapy-with-edta/

http://www.longecity...aminoguanidine/

Thank you. I've tried oral EDTA and ellagic acid, and neither had any impact on my blood pressure.

This morning I tried 100 mg spermidine (the biggest dose yet), and while my bp dropped by ten points within 20 minutes, it recovered to what it was over the next hour or two.

Apparently spermidine seems to be a chelator itself. Here's a paper that lead me to this on the way back machine. Here's a more recent study involving heavy metals in plants.

Regarding blood pressure, Nitric Oxide is known to lower it by relaxing blood vessel walls and improving blood flow. This study shows spermidine increases NO production in the brain. I'm thinking that the blood pressure time line you observed tracks its metabolism.

Howard

[Izan]

please excuse me if i'm wrong, but did spermidine only induce hair growth when applied topically?

Edited by izan82, 11 May 2013 - 07:18 PM.

[dislocation]

did you acquire spermidine from sigma ? they ask too much info like which university you work for etc. how the hell can you buy from them ?

[Turnbuckle]

please excuse me if i'm wrong, but did spermidine only induce hair growth when applied topically?

I don't know if they made that restriction. The patent application for hair color claimed it both ways--orally and topically.

did you acquire spermidine from sigma ? they ask too much info like which university you work for etc. how the hell can you buy from them ?

See the first post in this thread where I gave three sources. And yes, unless you work for a company or university and can order through them, buying from Sigma is problematical.

[mikey]

please excuse me if i'm wrong, but did spermidine only induce hair growth when applied topically?

I don't know if they made that restriction. The patent application for hair color claimed it both ways--orally and topically.

did you acquire spermidine from sigma ? they ask too much info like which university you work for etc. how the hell can you buy from them ?

See the first post in this thread where I gave three sources. And yes, unless you work for a company or university and can order through them, buying from Sigma is problematical.

Thank you, Turnbuckle.
I bought a gram from PhytoTechnology 1g/5g—$18.85/$71.85 easily.

The total including shipping was about $28, for what will last one to three months, if I use 10 to 30 mg a day.

It seems like this will be plenty for me to see if I get some of the effects that Turnbuckle has reported.

I can buy from Sigma, but why bother when the least expensive source is easy to purchase from?

[smithx]

If you are interested in spermidine, you should look into LKM512:
http://www.plosone.o...al.pone.0023652

Chronic low-grade inflammation is recognized as an important factor contributing to senescence and age-related diseases. In mammals, levels of polyamines (PAs) decrease during the ageing process; PAs are known to decrease systemic inflammation by inhibiting inflammatory cytokine synthesis in macrophages. Reductions in intestinal luminal PAs levels have been associated with intestinal barrier dysfunction. The probiotic strain Bifidobacterium animalis subsp. lactis LKM512 is known to increase intestinal luminal PA concentrations.

A thread on it:
http://www.longecity...mouse-lifespan/

And a link where you can buy it:
http://item.rakuten....km512-teiki-fst

Edited by smithx, 12 May 2013 - 04:08 AM.

[blueinfinity]

so it was used radiation only once to create the variety and then just collect the red fruit or do you have to radiate the fruits each season to get them as red as they should be ?

and for spermidine, you just use it for excercise ? doesnt have some other noticable effect, maybe some stimulation, sedation, some cognitive related function ?

The technique is to create many random mutations with radiation (or chemicals) and to plant the seeds and select the traits you want. Obviously this is a lot of work and takes a lot of time, but once you have a change in the DNA, it is permanent. Star Ruby grapefruit was developed this way in the 50's, and gamma radiation has been investigated as a method of preserving and disinfecting the fruit (and many other foods), but hasn't been approved.

Spermidine holds the promise of longer life through increased autophagy and mitochondrial health, hair color restoration, faster hair growth, and better skin. The boost I saw in the gym was unexpected but was assurance it was doing something. It's really too early to tell as I'm only into my second week, but I'd say that the hair color restoration is not working out. I don't see any change in that. My skin is definitely improved, but I don't know if it was from spermidine in the grapefruit juice or something else in the juice. I didn't previously see it with OJ, and that has spermidine too. I've seen a minor and temporary lowering of blood pressure, and I've seen that C60 and spermidine shouldn't be taken together--at least from the way I felt in the gym.

http://www.landesbio...adeoAUTO6-1.pdf

Why did you say that c60 + spermidine is not a good mix?

what were your reactions?

[Turnbuckle]

so it was used radiation only once to create the variety and then just collect the red fruit or do you have to radiate the fruits each season to get them as red as they should be ?

and for spermidine, you just use it for excercise ? doesnt have some other noticable effect, maybe some stimulation, sedation, some cognitive related function ?

The technique is to create many random mutations with radiation (or chemicals) and to plant the seeds and select the traits you want. Obviously this is a lot of work and takes a lot of time, but once you have a change in the DNA, it is permanent. Star Ruby grapefruit was developed this way in the 50's, and gamma radiation has been investigated as a method of preserving and disinfecting the fruit (and many other foods), but hasn't been approved.

Spermidine holds the promise of longer life through increased autophagy and mitochondrial health, hair color restoration, faster hair growth, and better skin. The boost I saw in the gym was unexpected but was assurance it was doing something. It's really too early to tell as I'm only into my second week, but I'd say that the hair color restoration is not working out. I don't see any change in that. My skin is definitely improved, but I don't know if it was from spermidine in the grapefruit juice or something else in the juice. I didn't previously see it with OJ, and that has spermidine too. I've seen a minor and temporary lowering of blood pressure, and I've seen that C60 and spermidine shouldn't be taken together--at least from the way I felt in the gym.

http://www.landesbio...adeoAUTO6-1.pdf

Why did you say that c60 + spermidine is not a good mix?

what were your reactions?

My report for day four in post 48.

[dislocation]

ill try 1 gram of the stuff. i wonder what toxicty it has in such high dose...

[smithx]

Read the mouse study I posted above. AFAIK the only real life extension (or in this case, all cause death reduction) results have been from LKM512, not from supplementing only with pure spermidine.

[Turnbuckle]

Exogenous supply of spermidine prolongs the life span of several model organisms including yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae), nematodes (Caenorhabditis elegans) and flies (Drosophila melanogaster) and significantly reduces age-related oxidative protein damage in mice, indicating that this agent may act as a universal anti-aging drug. Spermidine induces autophagy in cultured yeast and mammalian cells, as well as in nematodes and flies. Genetic inactivation of genes essential for autophagy abolishes the life span-prolonging effect of spermidine in yeast, nematodes and flies. These findings complement expanding evidence that autophagy mediates cytoprotection against a variety of noxious agents and can confer longevity when induced at the whole-organism level. We hypothesize that increased autophagic turnover of cytoplasmic organelles or long-lived proteins is involved in most if not all life span-prolonging therapies.

http://www.landesbio.../article/10600/

Edited by Turnbuckle, 13 May 2013 - 12:07 AM.

[Logic]

Turnbuckle; Spermidine is said to reduce skin pore size : Could you possibly test it topically plz?

[Turnbuckle]

Turnbuckle; Spermidine is said to reduce skin pore size : Could you possibly test it topically plz?

I have tested it topically, with a concentration of 30 mg per ounce of water. That was just a few days ago and so far nothing to report. As for pore size, I have minimal pore size so I'm unlikely to see anything.

[Turnbuckle]

UPDATE:

I now use spermidine only a couple of times a week at a dose of 30mg in grapefruit juice, and I don't take it around the time I take C60 (2mg once a week). Spermidine appears to stay in the body for a long time (with a half-life of 22 days in mice), and thus taking it every day seems unnecessary. While the most significant change was improved skin appearance, some of this occurred just from the grapefruit juice, which contains spermidine as well as furanocoumarins. I also tried applying it to the top of my head twice (diluted 30mg to an ounce of water) where the hair growth rate is lower and thus produces an asymmetry after a few weeks. Now the asymmetry seems less, but that is purely subjective. There was no effect on gray hair that I could tell. I still note a burst of energy about a half hour after I take it. This is not dramatic, and is less than at first as I've probably built up my body stores of spermidine.

[Andey]

UPDATE:

I now use spermidine only a couple of times a week at a dose of 30mg in grapefruit juice, and I don't take it around the time I take C60 (2mg once a week). Spermidine appears to stay in the body for a long time (with a half-life of 22 days in mice), and thus taking it every day seems unnecessary. While the most significant change was improved skin appearance, some of this occurred just from the grapefruit juice, which contains spermidine as well as furanocoumarins. I also tried applying it to the top of my head twice (diluted 30mg to an ounce of water) where the hair growth rate is lower and thus produces an asymmetry after a few weeks. Now the asymmetry seems less, but that is purely subjective. There was no effect on gray hair that I could tell. I still note a burst of energy about a half hour after I take it. This is not dramatic, and is less than at first as I've probably built up my body stores of spermidine.

very interesting observations
its a shame that spermidine is not available to the public (

[Turnbuckle]

its a shame that spermidine is not available to the public (

It should be easy to sell spermidine as a supplement since it's already found in the food supply. The biggest difficulty would be in marketing a bottle of capsules that smells like semen.

[Adamzski]

its a shame that spermidine is not available to the public (

It should be easy to sell spermidine as a supplement since it's already found in the food supply. The biggest difficulty would be in marketing a bottle of capsules that smells like semen.

It would be a hit in Surrey Hills Sydney!

[Adamzski]

How much grapefruit juice are you drinking? It is very expensive where I am, 20oz of Grapefruit Juice $32..
I have seen it makes bezos stronger and has all kinds of drug interactions, powerful stuff.
Also I seen a study saying that it can increase the risk of breast cancer in women by 1/3

[Andey]

its a shame that spermidine is not available to the public (

It should be easy to sell spermidine as a supplement since it's already found in the food supply. The biggest difficulty would be in marketing a bottle of capsules that smells like semen.

yep, looks like marketing issue ) But would sell easily as a fertility supplement.
Yesterday I have started grapefruit juice. I was used to like it in the past but dissmissed it for shugar content. Now its back and I am glad to find a proper excuse for it )

Didnt found though a exact amount of spermidine in grapefruit juice. While searching it looks like a common knowledge that GFJ have plenty of spermidine but no actual numbers. There is also no mention of high spermidine content in Polyamin Database that was cited above... Are there any study that links grapefruit juice and spermidine ? May be putrescine (with content is high in GFJ) is metabolised to spermidine while digesting ?