280 replies to this topic

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

I've found that 50 mg spermidine and 250 mg resveratrol (both of which induce autophagy) appear to be synergistic. Unfortunately, while I've found spermidine to be entire benign with no side effects, I can't say the same for resveratrol. Even a single dose now causes me hip pain for several days, as I became sensitized to it several years ago after taking it every day for several months. Nevertheless, I intend to keep using the combination once every couple of months, as the age reversal benefits seem worth it. 

 

thanks a lot but on what you based your dosage for spermidine please ? Because it seems 50mg is much.

 

For resveratrol i stoped for 100mg pterostilbene. I was under resveratrol daily regimen for more than 5 years now, and i feel a difference with pterostilbene, but maybe its just placebo. Sorry to spam my blog, but you can read more about this topic: http://www.pterostilbene.com/

[Turnbuckle]

 

I've found that 50 mg spermidine and 250 mg resveratrol (both of which induce autophagy) appear to be synergistic. Unfortunately, while I've found spermidine to be entire benign with no side effects, I can't say the same for resveratrol. Even a single dose now causes me hip pain for several days, as I became sensitized to it several years ago after taking it every day for several months. Nevertheless, I intend to keep using the combination once every couple of months, as the age reversal benefits seem worth it. 

 

thanks a lot but on what you based your dosage for spermidine please ? Because it seems 50mg is much.

 

For resveratrol i stoped for 100mg pterostilbene. I was under resveratrol daily regimen for more than 5 years now, and i feel a difference with pterostilbene, but maybe its just placebo. Sorry to spam my blog, but you can read more about this topic: http://www.pterostilbene.com/

 

 

 

Thanks for the pterostibene recommendation. I will give it a try. As for the spermidine dose, I could probably back off on that. I'd previously seen results from only 10 mg, which is actually less than the average endogenous production per day.

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

even 10mg seems a lot, check this please : http://www.fda.gov/o...1-01-vol141.pdf

 

they used a mix of spermidine 2,5mg and spermine 2,5mg (total =5mg) and it seems to be the minimal recommended dosage.

[Turnbuckle]

even 10mg seems a lot, check this please : http://www.fda.gov/o...1-01-vol141.pdf

 

they used a mix of spermidine 2,5mg and spermine 2,5mg (total =5mg) and it seems to be the minimal recommended dosage.

 

 

A pro forma rejection by the FDA has nothing to do with science and a proposed dosage by a supplement company for sexual performance has nothing to do with its use for longevity.

[Turnbuckle]

Here is a previous thread on the synergy of spermidine with resveratrol, and the paper it references--

 

 

At doses at which neither resveratrol nor spermidine stimulated autophagy alone, these agents synergistically induced autophagy.

 

 

 

And a more recent paper, which may suggest alternative synergistic combinations--

 

Spermidine induces autophagy by inhibiting the acetyltransferase EP300.

 

Several natural compounds found in health-related food items can inhibit acetyltransferases as they induce autophagy. Here we show that this applies to anacardic acid, curcumin, garcinol and spermidine, all of which reduce the acetylation level of cultured human cells as they induce signs of increased autophagic flux

 

 

 

[Turnbuckle]

Retrying the spermidine/resveratrol combination of my post #180, this time adding 75 mg DHEA, produced no joint pain. Others have recommended DHEA for preventing resveratrol joint pain, and that seems to work for me.

 

I also tried another combination based on my post #185--

 

Spermidine — 10 mg

Pterostilbene — 100 mg

Curcumin  — 1,000 mg

Catechins — 500 mg

 

 

Which I felt was not nearly as good.

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

Hey Mr Turnbuckle ! Very interesting post !

 

So if you have to choose for a supplement for a dosage, you would prefer 20 or 25mg pills ? I will try to offer this soon because im interested in this compound.

 

I think you should keep then your high spermidine dosage but use pterostilbene instead of resveratrol.

 

For the DHEA part, on what do you base your idea its good against joint pain resveratrol induced ? I really dont feel confortable to supplement with a steroid hormone.

 

Resveratrol is well known to be an aromatase inhibitor.. Actually very potent, maybe there is a link

 

EDIT: does anyone have access to this : http://ursca.whittie...ammatory-status

 

"Spermidine is a naturally occurring polyamine that may have beneficial characteristics to one’s health when supplemented into daily nutrition. This particular nutraceutical is known to be an inducer of autophagy and DNA methylation. Increased autophagy activity correlates to an increased lifespan. Therefore, if spermidine is able to significantly increase autophagy activity, supplementation of exogenous spermidine into a daily diet may be beneficial to one’s health in regard to aging. To test our hypothesis we used as our model system an immortal T cell line called Jurkat cells. Jurkat cell cultures were treated with spermidine at 50, 100 and 500 mg/ml concentrations.Treatments resulted in an 18% increase of growth when treated with 100 mg/ml relative to our control culture at time points of 0 hrs and 24 hrs. In addition, we analyze spermidine’s effect on longevity genes of our cultured cells, specifically the expression of NF-kB, MAPK, DNA methyltransferase and Sirtuin1-7 genes. Expression of our targeted gene was analyzed by using RT-PCR. Our results indicate that there were changes in the gene expression due to spermidine treatment."

 

Edited by Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi), 12 September 2015 - 11:46 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

Hey Mr Turnbuckle ! Very interesting post !

 

So if you have to choose for a supplement for a dosage, you would prefer 20 or 25mg pills ? I will try to offer this soon because im interested in this compound.

 

I think you should keep then your high spermidine dosage but use pterostilbene instead of resveratrol.

 

For the DHEA part, on what do you base your idea its good against joint pain resveratrol induced ? I really dont feel confortable to supplement with a steroid hormone.

 

 

 

DHEA will not be needed by everyone, but it certainly eliminated the join pain associated with resveratrol and gave me a good deal of energy besides. This is likely because of my age (>60), due to a deficiency exacerbated by resveratrol. I didn't try it for any theoretical reason, but because a couple of people here recommended it, and indeed, it worked very well.

 

As for your question about dosage, I'm not sure which supplement you are referring to.  If it's spermidine, that is not currently available to the public. Since it's so cheap in bulk from China ($1/gram), I'm surprised that no one is selling it for some other purpose, ie, not for human consumption, etc.

[zorba990]

Retrying the spermidine/resveratrol combination of my post #180, this time adding 75 mg DHEA, produced no joint pain. Others have recommended DHEA for preventing resveratrol joint pain, and that seems to work for me.

I also tried another combination based on my post #185--

Spermidine — 10 mg
Pterostilbene — 100 mg
Curcumin — 1,000 mg
Catechins — 500 mg


Which I felt was not nearly as good.

Do you plan on cycling DHEA?

Would be great if someone would get into seling these more esoteric autophagy compounds (tributyrin, spermidine, etc)

[timar]

Would be great if someone would get into seling these more esoteric autophagy compounds (tributyrin, spermidine, etc)

 

You can get spermidine at your local grocery. About $1 per gram - plus another gram of spermine and putrescine for free!

 

(I'm talking about wheat germ of course. I have one tablespoon on most days, containing about 20 mg spermidine.)

 

 

Edited by timar, 15 September 2015 - 07:43 PM.

[geo12the]

I can't say the same for resveratrol. Even a single dose now causes me hip pain for several days,

 

What resveratrol are you taking? I believe that contaminants from knotweed cause the joint and tendon issues. I used to have those issues taking  resveratrol derived from Knotweed, even the supposedly purified stuff. All those issues went away when I switched to Resvida which is synthesized resveratrol.

[Turnbuckle]

 

I can't say the same for resveratrol. Even a single dose now causes me hip pain for several days,

 

What resveratrol are you taking? I believe that contaminants from knotweed cause the joint and tendon issues. I used to have those issues taking  resveratrol derived from Knotweed, even the supposedly purified stuff. All those issues went away when I switched to Resvida which is synthesized resveratrol.

 

 

See my post #186 above, re DHEA.

[Tom Andre F. (ex shinobi)]

 

Hey Mr Turnbuckle ! Very interesting post !

 

So if you have to choose for a supplement for a dosage, you would prefer 20 or 25mg pills ? I will try to offer this soon because im interested in this compound.

 

I think you should keep then your high spermidine dosage but use pterostilbene instead of resveratrol.

 

For the DHEA part, on what do you base your idea its good against joint pain resveratrol induced ? I really dont feel confortable to supplement with a steroid hormone.

 

 

 

DHEA will not be needed by everyone, but it certainly eliminated the join pain associated with resveratrol and gave me a good deal of energy besides. This is likely because of my age (>60), due to a deficiency exacerbated by resveratrol. I didn't try it for any theoretical reason, but because a couple of people here recommended it, and indeed, it worked very well.

 

As for your question about dosage, I'm not sure which supplement you are referring to.  If it's spermidine, that is not currently available to the public. Since it's so cheap in bulk from China ($1/gram), I'm surprised that no one is selling it for some other purpose, ie, not for human consumption, etc.

 

Ok I thought it was possible to sell spermidine as a dietary supplement. Thanks

 

[Turnbuckle]

 

Ok I thought it was possible to sell spermidine as a dietary supplement. Thanks

 

 

 

 

The criminally corrupt and totalitarian FDA is attacking vendors for selling "synthetic" spermidine, even though they can't do anything about spermidine occurring naturally. They claim that synthetic spermidine is not a "lawful dietary ingredient," even though this claim has no statutory basis.

 

The Council for Responsible Nutrition (CRN) submits this letter to urge FDA to reverse its position that synthetic constituents of botanicals cannot be dietary ingredients. The agency’s position is contrary to the language of and congressional intent behind the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 (DSHEA); it stands in conflict with decades of FDA precedent; and it is neither scientifically justified, logical, nor in the interest of the public health.

 

 

Edited by Turnbuckle, 17 September 2015 - 12:22 AM.

[aconita]

Just out of curiosity in ancient China emperors and high classes used to collect sperm from slaves, mix it with rice wine and drink for health and longevity purposes.

 

Avoiding going to deep since it will be quite off topic here it will suffice to mention that sperm was regarded as very precious and external ejaculation not encouraged at all, Taoists developed a few methods in order to get powerful orgasms without external ejaculations, according to the literature sperm internally ejaculated will be "reabsorbed" by the body providing invaluable health and longevity benefits.

 

 

[Junk Master]

BTW I believe DHEA helps resveratrol induced joint pain because it raises estrogen levels.  As stated earlier resveratrol is an aromatase inhibitor.  More estrogen makes joints feel better. QED.

 

Personally, unless you are over 45-50, I'd cycle it with the resveratrol.

[Skyguy2005]

Are there any studies showing spermidine directly accelerating the clearance of prion-ish proteins e.g. mutant huntingtin, beta-amyloid, parkinsons protein, CJD protein etc? This is the ultimate test of a supplement, right?

 

Never mind if it activates autophagy or deactivates MTOR, you want to know if it actually does the physical job of clearing up bad proteins, I think. This is where things like NAC turn out a little dodgy. In NAC's case, it is related closely to L-cysteine, which is interconvertible into methionine, the *restriction* of which has been shown to be very beneficial re:Clearance of bad proteins. Also low-methionine foods are often low-cysteine as well.

Edited by Skyguy2005, 16 October 2015 - 09:22 PM.

[Turnbuckle]

BTW I believe DHEA helps resveratrol induced joint pain because it raises estrogen levels.  As stated earlier resveratrol is an aromatase inhibitor.  More estrogen makes joints feel better. QED.

 

Personally, unless you are over 45-50, I'd cycle it with the resveratrol.

 

 

DHEA is excellent for joint pain, but if you have hypertension, watch out. It can raise it dramatically for a very long time.

[Caravaggio]

So who is gonna do the first trial and eat his own cum regularly.

 

That would be the perpetuum mobile of anti-aging. 

[mikey]

So who is gonna do the first trial and eat his own cum regularly.

 

That would be the perpetuum mobile of anti-aging. 

 

LOL.

 

I've done it for years and people say that I look 20 years younger than my 62 years.

 

But I do dozens of anti-aging things, so I have no "controlled" data to say that semen works.

 

But the data on spermidine is worth considering.

 

[mikey]

 

BTW I believe DHEA helps resveratrol induced joint pain because it raises estrogen levels.  As stated earlier resveratrol is an aromatase inhibitor.  More estrogen makes joints feel better. QED.

 

Personally, unless you are over 45-50, I'd cycle it with the resveratrol.

 

 

DHEA is excellent for joint pain, but if you have hypertension, watch out. It can raise it dramatically for a very long time.

 

 

My experience is that 2 grams of tyrosine with 3 grams of taurine a day lowers blood pressure tremendously, even when taking 10 mg of DHEA twice a day, AM and PM.

 

My BP goes from being high, like 150/95 to being 125/73 quickly. 

[mikey]

FYI -- I was just told that someone (Max) that I haven't seen in about 6 months was fascinated that my hair is darker, my skin looks tighter and younger, etc... by his buddy, who is a good friend of mine, named Joe.

 

Joe was driving away after they visited me when Max told him that.

 

YEAH!! for spermidine, C60oo, epitalon and dozens of high potency nutrients/antioxidants/vitamins...

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

BTW I believe DHEA helps resveratrol induced joint pain because it raises estrogen levels.  As stated earlier resveratrol is an aromatase inhibitor.  More estrogen makes joints feel better. QED.

 

Personally, unless you are over 45-50, I'd cycle it with the resveratrol.

 

 

DHEA is excellent for joint pain, but if you have hypertension, watch out. It can raise it dramatically for a very long time.

 

 

My experience is that 2 grams of tyrosine with 3 grams of taurine a day lowers blood pressure tremendously, even when taking 10 mg of DHEA twice a day, AM and PM.

 

My BP goes from being high, like 150/95 to being 125/73 quickly. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I'd previously tried taurine with olive leave extract, and the combination controlled my BP nicely, but only if I took it 4 or 5 times a day.

[mikey]

 

 

 

BTW I believe DHEA helps resveratrol induced joint pain because it raises estrogen levels.  As stated earlier resveratrol is an aromatase inhibitor.  More estrogen makes joints feel better. QED.

 

Personally, unless you are over 45-50, I'd cycle it with the resveratrol.

 

 

DHEA is excellent for joint pain, but if you have hypertension, watch out. It can raise it dramatically for a very long time.

 

 

My experience is that 2 grams of tyrosine with 3 grams of taurine a day lowers blood pressure tremendously, even when taking 10 mg of DHEA twice a day, AM and PM.

 

My BP goes from being high, like 150/95 to being 125/73 quickly. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I'd previously tried taurine with olive leave extract, and the combination controlled my BP nicely, but only if I took it 4 or 5 times a day.

 

 

My experience is that they do work even better if dosed several time a day.

 

And it depends on what my day is like - how much stress, etc...

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/10230711

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23392950

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/12436205 "Taurine supplementation of 6 g/day for as little as 7 days resulted in measurable decreases in blood pressure in these patients."

[zorba990]

From this table, aged cheddar cheese appears to be pretty high in spermidine

It's so prevalent in food, I can't see how the FDA has a leg to stand on here...just need it to be sold for cosmetic purposes maybe.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...63/table/T0001/

[Logic]

Turnbuckle

I'm sure you are aware that vit D ameliorates the joint pain from Resveratrol?

Both they synergise to upregulate VDF and CAMP

I hypothesize that the joint pain may be due to an overgrowth of an unidentified NAD+ auxotroph?

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=761928

 

Then there is Gelatine+C for joints.
NB that Gelatine before exercise or sleep can raise the natural HGH spikes at those times by up to 8X.

 

I don't remember if the autophagy studies with R were in vivo or in vitro?

I note that due to the higher bioavailability and better pharmacokinetics of Pterostilbene:  in vivo Pt = in vitro R... (more or less)
The in vivo effects of R are best studied by looking at its metabolites.  Like Piceatannol...

 

I note:

• that Pt + Lithium may synergise to upregulate autophagy.
• that Inositol/IP3 has the opposite effect. (blocked by Lithium)
• the circadian rhythm of autophagy.

here:

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=763863

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=764646

 

Then lentztrehaloseslooks interesting:

http://www.longecity...ndpost&p=765073

 

As you have a knack for turning research into a practical stack, I look forward to your thoughts on the above and any anecdotal reports that might come from this.

 

[Turnbuckle]

I'm sure you are aware that vit D ameliorates the joint pain from Resveratrol?

 

Doesn't do a thing for me, but DHEA does, as I've previously mentioned.

[treonsverdery]

I read a paper https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/2468644 where they gave mice arginine with lKM512 probiotic  bacteria as part of a measured produced spermdine experiment.  the url is https://www.ncbi.nlm.../pubmed/2468644

 

when I read the paper I thought that 7 grams of arginine was near the beneficial mouse equivalent that is "

delays senescence in mice"

 

 srep04548-f5.jpg   200.69KB   3 downloads

[mikey]

 

Hey Mr Turnbuckle ! Very interesting post !

 

So if you have to choose for a supplement for a dosage, you would prefer 20 or 25mg pills ? I will try to offer this soon because im interested in this compound.

 

I think you should keep then your high spermidine dosage but use pterostilbene instead of resveratrol.

 

For the DHEA part, on what do you base your idea its good against joint pain resveratrol induced ? I really dont feel confortable to supplement with a steroid hormone.

 

 

 

DHEA will not be needed by everyone, but it certainly eliminated the join pain associated with resveratrol and gave me a good deal of energy besides. This is likely because of my age (>60), due to a deficiency exacerbated by resveratrol. I didn't try it for any theoretical reason, but because a couple of people here recommended it, and indeed, it worked very well.

 

As for your question about dosage, I'm not sure which supplement you are referring to.  If it's spermidine, that is not currently available to the public. Since it's so cheap in bulk from China ($1/gram), I'm surprised that no one is selling it for some other purpose, ie, not for human consumption, etc.

 

 

Hello Turnbuckle.

Please tell where one can buy spermidine for $1/gram.

 

And thank you, again!

[Turnbuckle]

 

 

Hey Mr Turnbuckle ! Very interesting post !

 

So if you have to choose for a supplement for a dosage, you would prefer 20 or 25mg pills ? I will try to offer this soon because im interested in this compound.

 

I think you should keep then your high spermidine dosage but use pterostilbene instead of resveratrol.

 

For the DHEA part, on what do you base your idea its good against joint pain resveratrol induced ? I really dont feel confortable to supplement with a steroid hormone.

 

 

 

DHEA will not be needed by everyone, but it certainly eliminated the join pain associated with resveratrol and gave me a good deal of energy besides. This is likely because of my age (>60), due to a deficiency exacerbated by resveratrol. I didn't try it for any theoretical reason, but because a couple of people here recommended it, and indeed, it worked very well.

 

As for your question about dosage, I'm not sure which supplement you are referring to.  If it's spermidine, that is not currently available to the public. Since it's so cheap in bulk from China ($1/gram), I'm surprised that no one is selling it for some other purpose, ie, not for human consumption, etc.

 

 

Hello Turnbuckle.

Please tell where one can buy spermidine for $1/gram.

 

And thank you, again!

 

 

Here's one in China, but I have no idea if they are any good.

 

https://haihangindus...s_124_20_9.html