54 replies to this topic

[ClarkSims]

Well I have something new to report, maybe. I have some sencent (I think) hairs in my eyebrows. They are much thicker, and grow much faster than the other hairs in my eyebrows. Today I found a hair that had gone senecent a few weeks ago. It was blond, my normal color at the end, and pitch black at the root. The root was many times thicker than the end of the hair. I think my hair color has changed. I recal the first such hair about 10 years ago. It was red, and kind of kinky. Maybe all the anti oxidants I have been taking, have increased my melanin output, as per the numerous articles sited above? I might hace access to a microscope over new years. I will try to get a photo of the hair. I have concluded there is something more to senece other than just graying.

[Stefanovic]

Many people tried a pseudocatalase shampoo they purchased on ebay. Even though the seller claims almost all of his users responded well, none of the 10 people I've been in touch with having used this, had results after 4-12 months of time. I'd just want to have some info on the progress of this invention. The theory sounds good. I just don't wanna wait another ten years.

[Strangelove]

Any updates? It makes sense that a topical would be much better than a shampoo though...

[Stefanovic]

yes some sorta lotion. I know they're currently using the pseudocatalase- acetyl hexapeptide 1 as a combo on the lef forum.

[mikey]

What about using PABA?

 

There are several publications showing that oral PABA can darkens grey hair.

Most notably - http://www.nature.co...id1950121a.html

[Stefanovic]

It's been a year and a half since the results of the study were released. We should have updates by now. Many people tried a powder mixed with a lotion from one seller and no one posting on forums reported results so we'd need something else.

[ClarkSims]

I found it here  http://www.fasebj.or.../27/8/3113.long

Edited by ClarkSims, 08 March 2015 - 04:05 PM.

[Kalliste]

If the part about endogenous bleaching is correct I would have expected someone to mention the existence of Mito antioxidants here. A more bioavailable antioxidant might prevent this issue.

[TheFountain]

 

Am I the only one who finds that theory that grey hair is being cased by endogenous bleach a little hard to swallow?

Are you aware that hydrogen peroxide is constantly formed in your cells? In the process of making ATP, mitochondria also create a radical anion called superoxide. Superoxide dismutase creates H2O2 as a byproduct of detoxifying superoxide. The H2O2 should ideally be taken care of by catalase, but not all of it is, and if catalase is insufficient, you will get a buildup of peroxide, the endogenous bleach.

 

So then, what effect would SOD supplementation have on potential grey build up?

[nowayout]

 

 

Am I the only one who finds that theory that grey hair is being cased by endogenous bleach a little hard to swallow?

Are you aware that hydrogen peroxide is constantly formed in your cells? In the process of making ATP, mitochondria also create a radical anion called superoxide. Superoxide dismutase creates H2O2 as a byproduct of detoxifying superoxide. The H2O2 should ideally be taken care of by catalase, but not all of it is, and if catalase is insufficient, you will get a buildup of peroxide, the endogenous bleach.

 

So then, what effect would SOD supplementation have on potential grey build up?

 

 

Never mind the gray hair, if there is so much free Hydrogen Peroxide floating around in the cells of those of us who are graying, what other damage is being done to our cells?  Is this excess of H2O2 something specific to hair follicles or does it become widespread in other organs?  If we can figure out how to prevent or reverse graying hair, will we have solved a much larger aging problem?   

 

[Kalliste]

Some people in the C60 forum believe they are reversing their gray hair. Hard to say if it's true or meaningful to the issue of H2O2.

[nowayout]

Some people in the C60 forum believe they are reversing their gray hair. Hard to say if it's true or meaningful to the issue of H2O2.

 

I know they believe it, but I honestly cannot see any improvement in the cases where people posted pictures of the purported effect. 

[TheFountain]

 

 

 

Am I the only one who finds that theory that grey hair is being cased by endogenous bleach a little hard to swallow?

Are you aware that hydrogen peroxide is constantly formed in your cells? In the process of making ATP, mitochondria also create a radical anion called superoxide. Superoxide dismutase creates H2O2 as a byproduct of detoxifying superoxide. The H2O2 should ideally be taken care of by catalase, but not all of it is, and if catalase is insufficient, you will get a buildup of peroxide, the endogenous bleach.

 

So then, what effect would SOD supplementation have on potential grey build up?

 

 

Never mind the gray hair, if there is so much free Hydrogen Peroxide floating around in the cells of those of us who are graying, what other damage is being done to our cells?  Is this excess of H2O2 something specific to hair follicles or does it become widespread in other organs?  If we can figure out how to prevent or reverse graying hair, will we have solved a much larger aging problem?   

 

 

 

Nobody here has all the answers for those looking to either reverse or prevent it, but there are many personal reports scattered around of people seeing a reversal with use of a good resveratrol supplement. Since resveratrol has been reported effective in so many other ways, it would make sense that it's benefits could extend to this as well. 

[nowayout]

 

 

 

 

Am I the only one who finds that theory that grey hair is being cased by endogenous bleach a little hard to swallow?

Are you aware that hydrogen peroxide is constantly formed in your cells? In the process of making ATP, mitochondria also create a radical anion called superoxide. Superoxide dismutase creates H2O2 as a byproduct of detoxifying superoxide. The H2O2 should ideally be taken care of by catalase, but not all of it is, and if catalase is insufficient, you will get a buildup of peroxide, the endogenous bleach.

 

So then, what effect would SOD supplementation have on potential grey build up?

 

 

Never mind the gray hair, if there is so much free Hydrogen Peroxide floating around in the cells of those of us who are graying, what other damage is being done to our cells?  Is this excess of H2O2 something specific to hair follicles or does it become widespread in other organs?  If we can figure out how to prevent or reverse graying hair, will we have solved a much larger aging problem?   

 

 

 

Nobody here has all the answers for those looking to either reverse or prevent it, but there are many personal reports scattered around of people seeing a reversal with use of a good resveratrol supplement. Since resveratrol has been reported effective in so many other ways, it would make sense that it's benefits could extend to this as well. 

 

 

The thing is - I don't believe the reports at all.  There is never, ever, ever, any convincing photographic evidence.  I'd be happy to be proved wrong. 

[sensei]

Am I the only one who finds that theory that grey hair is being cased by endogenous bleach a little hard to swallow?

 

 

It has been confirmed and corroborated by  in vivo Raman Spectroscopy.

 

Senile hair graying: H2O2-mediated oxidative stress affects human hair color by blunting methionine sulfoxide repair.

 

 

"Here we show for the first time by FT-Raman spectroscopy in vivo that human gray/white scalp hair shafts accumulate hydrogen peroxide (H(2)O(2)) in millimolar concentrations."

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19237503

[nowayout]

 

Am I the only one who finds that theory that grey hair is being cased by endogenous bleach a little hard to swallow?

 

 

It has been confirmed and corroborated by  in vivo Raman Spectroscopy.

 

Senile hair graying: H2O2-mediated oxidative stress affects human hair color by blunting methionine sulfoxide repair.

 

 

"Here we show for the first time by FT-Raman spectroscopy in vivo that human gray/white scalp hair shafts accumulate hydrogen peroxide (H(2)O(2)) in millimolar concentrations."

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/19237503

 

 

What would account for the much faster growth and increased shaft thickness of gray hairs compared to adjacent non-gray hairs, though.  Something is missing from the picture. 

 

For example, I trimmed my forearm hair down to the same length with an electric trimmer a week ago.  At this point about every 10th-20th hair is gray.  In the week since trimming them, the gray hairs have grown to about 3-4 times the length of the black ones. 

 

Edited by nowayout, 12 March 2015 - 06:30 PM.

[sensei]

 

 

What would account for the much faster growth and increased shaft thickness of gray hairs compared to adjacent non-gray hairs, though.  Something is missing from the picture. 

 

For example, I trimmed my forearm hair down to the same length with an electric trimmer a week ago.  At this point about every 10th-20th hair is gray.  In the week since trimming them, the gray hairs have grown to about 3-4 times the length of the black ones. 

 

 

 

Honestly, that is a completely different issue.

 

The fact that H2O2 causes white/gray hair is what was at issue.

 

What may or may not cause an increase in hair growth??

 

I had not noticed any difference in rate of hair growth based on color when I had gray in my beard.

[Stefanovic]

http://ask.lef.org/2...dex=165#bm15328

 

what do you think of that Ladd-character's posts. It's a bit odd that reversal should take years as I have seen a few hair being white growing out non-white and I've been in touch with people having used LLLT reporting results in months.

[Brett Black]

Never mind the gray hair, if there is so much free Hydrogen Peroxide floating around in the cells of those of us who are graying, what other damage is being done to our cells?  Is this excess of H2O2 something specific to hair follicles or does it become widespread in other organs?  If we can figure out how to prevent or reverse graying hair, will we have solved a much larger aging problem?   
 

 

Perhaps of some interest and relevance to your questions, the following study found that graying hair (or baldness, or wrinkles) was not correlated with reduced lifespan when chronological age was taken account for:

 

 

1. J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci. 1998 Sep;53(5):M347-50.

Longevity and gray hair, baldness, facial wrinkles, and arcus senilis in 13,000
men and women: the Copenhagen City Heart Study.

 

Schnohr P(1), Nyboe J, Lange P, Jensen G.

Author information:
(1)Epidemiological Research Unit, National University Hospital, Copenhagen,
Denmark. PeterSchnohr@dadlnet.dk

 

BACKGROUND: We have previously reported that men who look older than their
contemporaries have a significantly higher risk for myocardial infarction. The
purpose of this study was to investigate whether persons with pronounced aging
signs such as graying of hair, baldness, or facial wrinkles are prone to a
shorter life span compared to their contemporaries.

 

METHODS: In the Copenhagen City Heart Study comprising a random sample of 20,000
men and women, we also recorded, in addition to cardiovascular risk factors, data
on signs of aging: extent of gray hair, baldness, facial wrinkles, and arcus
senilis (corneal arcus). During 16 years of follow-up, 3,939 persons (1,656 women
and 2,283 men) had died. The Cox regression model for proportional hazards, which
included age as an explanatory variable, was used for descriptive analysis of the
correlation between these aging signs and all-cause mortality.
RESULTS: We found no correlation between the mortality and the extent of graying
of the hair, or baldness or facial wrinkles in either of the sexes, irrespective
of age. A single exception was observed in a small subgroup of men with no gray
hair. They had a slightly, but significantly, lower mortality than the rest
[relative risk (RR) = .81, 95% confidence interval (CI) .67-.98; p < .05]. The
presence of arcus senilis was significantly correlated with a shorter life span
in women (RR = 1.25, 95% CI 1.08-1.46; p < .01). For men the same tendency was
found, but the correlation was not statistically significant.

 

CONCLUSION: We conclude that the degrees of graying of the hair, baldness, and
facial wrinkles are not predictive of a shorter life span in men and women in the
Copenhagen City Heart Study.

 

PMID: 9754140  [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/9754140

 

 

 

Another potentially relevant study, which found that reduced catalase (and also caloric restriction!)  increased H202 but actually increased lifespan in yeast:

 

 

1. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2010 Aug 24;107(34):15123-8. doi:
10.1073/pnas.1004432107. Epub 2010 Aug 9.

 

Caloric restriction or catalase inactivation extends yeast chronological lifespan
by inducing H2O2 and superoxide dismutase activity.

 

Mesquita A(1), Weinberger M, Silva A, Sampaio-Marques B, Almeida B, Leão C, Costa
V, Rodrigues F, Burhans WC, Ludovico P.

Author information:
(1)Instituto de Investigação em Ciências da Vida e Saúde, Escola de Ciências da
Saúde, Universidade do Minho, Campus de Gualtar, 4710-057 Braga, Portugal.

 

The free radical theory of aging posits oxidative damage to macromolecules as a
primary determinant of lifespan. Recent studies challenge this theory by
demonstrating that in some cases, longevity is enhanced by inactivation of
oxidative stress defenses or is correlated with increased, rather than decreased
reactive oxygen species and oxidative damage. Here we show that, in Saccharomyces
cerevisiae, caloric restriction or inactivation of catalases extends
chronological lifespan by inducing elevated levels of the reactive oxygen species
hydrogen peroxide, which activate superoxide dismutases that inhibit the
accumulation of superoxide anions. Increased hydrogen peroxide in
catalase-deficient cells extends chronological lifespan despite parallel
increases in oxidative damage. These findings establish a role for hormesis
effects of hydrogen peroxide in promoting longevity that have broad implications
for understanding aging and age-related diseases.

 

PMCID: PMC2930563
PMID: 20696905  [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20696905

 

 

Sufficiently mild oxidative stress has been hypothesized as potentially healthy, possibly by way of hormetic mechanism. I've also personally wondered if increased H2O2 levels might (sometimes?) be the result of superoxide dismutase better eliminating superoxide, and since superoxide seems to generally be considered more damaging than hydrogen peroxide, the net result of higher H2O2 with lower superoxide might thus be beneficial.

 

Who knows, maybe greying hair is actually a sign of healthier aging? As far as I can tell, the broadly negative view of graying hair is, currently, largerly or entirely based upon sociological and cultural underpinnings rather than scientific ones.

Edited by Brett Black, 24 March 2015 - 04:43 AM.

[GhostBuster]

 

 

Who knows, maybe greying hair is actually a sign of healthier aging? As far as I can tell, the broadly negative view of graying hair is, currently, largerly or entirely based upon sociological and cultural underpinnings rather than scientific ones.

 

 

I haven't associate gray hair with diseases or anything, but with getting older. Many people want to maintain their youthfullness. But, yes, "greying hair" is probably good for you, at least if you are a gorilla. Silver back alpha males get all the girls...

 

Althought this might sound like kidding (and it is) there might be some truth in it. Maybe grey hair signals male authority, wealth and well being to females and is therefore a biological sign that separates men from boys?

[nowayout]

I haven't associate gray hair with diseases or anything, but with getting older. Many people want to maintain their youthfullness.

 

Except for some guys who look freakishly young despite early graying, like Anderson Cooper and Max Joseph (the guy from Catfish).  I wouldn't mind graying if I had their hair.  What they have in common is that they have lots of hair, whereas gray hair combined with male pattern balding just looks old. 

 

I sometimes wish I had just grayed completely before starting to lose my hair.  Since nothing gets rid of a gray hair, I probably wouldn't have lost my hair if they went gray first.  
 

Edited by nowayout, 12 May 2015 - 02:42 PM.

[JBForrester]

 

 

 

Who knows, maybe greying hair is actually a sign of healthier aging? As far as I can tell, the broadly negative view of graying hair is, currently, largerly or entirely based upon sociological and cultural underpinnings rather than scientific ones.

 

 

I haven't associate gray hair with diseases or anything, but with getting older. Many people want to maintain their youthfullness. But, yes, "greying hair" is probably good for you, at least if you are a gorilla. Silver back alpha males get all the girls...

 

Althought this might sound like kidding (and it is) there might be some truth in it. Maybe grey hair signals male authority, wealth and well being to females and is therefore a biological sign that separates men from boys?

 

 

In (one) female's point of view, I will say that I am very attracted to men with salt-and-pepper hair, or shining silver hair. The only thing is that I'm only attracted to them if they are a full head of hair and not balding. But I cannot speak on behalf of all women. But please know that some like 'em grey. And some like them bald! All the males in my family are bald, and I have witnessed many women attracted to them. So need not worry :-)

 

If you really care though, why not try a coffee-rinse? It works both as a temporary hair-dye as well as a DHT inhibitor...

[Strangelove]

 

 

 

 

Who knows, maybe greying hair is actually a sign of healthier aging? As far as I can tell, the broadly negative view of graying hair is, currently, largerly or entirely based upon sociological and cultural underpinnings rather than scientific ones.

 

 

I haven't associate gray hair with diseases or anything, but with getting older. Many people want to maintain their youthfullness. But, yes, "greying hair" is probably good for you, at least if you are a gorilla. Silver back alpha males get all the girls...

 

Althought this might sound like kidding (and it is) there might be some truth in it. Maybe grey hair signals male authority, wealth and well being to females and is therefore a biological sign that separates men from boys?

 

 

In (one) female's point of view, I will say that I am very attracted to men with salt-and-pepper hair, or shining silver hair. The only thing is that I'm only attracted to them if they are a full head of hair and not balding. But I cannot speak on behalf of all women. But please know that some like 'em grey. And some like them bald! All the males in my family are bald, and I have witnessed many women attracted to them. So need not worry :-)

 

If you really care though, why not try a coffee-rinse? It works both as a temporary hair-dye as well as a DHT inhibitor...

 

 

The question I am interested in, is if women in their twenties like (or do not mind) grey hair. I started with some grey hair at a young age and I do not think this as a plus in dating in younger ages.

[nowayout]

 

 

 

 

 

Who knows, maybe greying hair is actually a sign of healthier aging? As far as I can tell, the broadly negative view of graying hair is, currently, largerly or entirely based upon sociological and cultural underpinnings rather than scientific ones.

 

 

I haven't associate gray hair with diseases or anything, but with getting older. Many people want to maintain their youthfullness. But, yes, "greying hair" is probably good for you, at least if you are a gorilla. Silver back alpha males get all the girls...

 

Althought this might sound like kidding (and it is) there might be some truth in it. Maybe grey hair signals male authority, wealth and well being to females and is therefore a biological sign that separates men from boys?

 

 

In (one) female's point of view, I will say that I am very attracted to men with salt-and-pepper hair, or shining silver hair. The only thing is that I'm only attracted to them if they are a full head of hair and not balding. But I cannot speak on behalf of all women. But please know that some like 'em grey. And some like them bald! All the males in my family are bald, and I have witnessed many women attracted to them. So need not worry :-)

 

If you really care though, why not try a coffee-rinse? It works both as a temporary hair-dye as well as a DHT inhibitor...

 

 

The question I am interested in, is if women in their twenties like (or do not mind) grey hair. I started with some grey hair at a young age and I do not think this as a plus in dating in younger ages.

 

There are so many other things any particular woman in their 20s might not like you for that fixating on some gray hair is futile.  Like a lot of other things (e.g., being blond, ginger or having freckles, having facial hair, or some balding), gray hair is going to turn off some women but attract others like crazy.  Working out to have a nice body, being well-groomed and nicely dressed, and having good manners and cultivating your mind so you can have an interesting conversation are so much more important that some grey hair is relatively neutral in comparison. 

Edited by nowayout, 20 May 2015 - 02:40 PM.

[JBForrester]

 

 

 

 

 

Who knows, maybe greying hair is actually a sign of healthier aging? As far as I can tell, the broadly negative view of graying hair is, currently, largerly or entirely based upon sociological and cultural underpinnings rather than scientific ones.

 

 

I haven't associate gray hair with diseases or anything, but with getting older. Many people want to maintain their youthfullness. But, yes, "greying hair" is probably good for you, at least if you are a gorilla. Silver back alpha males get all the girls...

 

Althought this might sound like kidding (and it is) there might be some truth in it. Maybe grey hair signals male authority, wealth and well being to females and is therefore a biological sign that separates men from boys?

 

 

In (one) female's point of view, I will say that I am very attracted to men with salt-and-pepper hair, or shining silver hair. The only thing is that I'm only attracted to them if they are a full head of hair and not balding. But I cannot speak on behalf of all women. But please know that some like 'em grey. And some like them bald! All the males in my family are bald, and I have witnessed many women attracted to them. So need not worry :-)

 

If you really care though, why not try a coffee-rinse? It works both as a temporary hair-dye as well as a DHT inhibitor...

 

 

The question I am interested in, is if women in their twenties like (or do not mind) grey hair. I started with some grey hair at a young age and I do not think this as a plus in dating in younger ages.

 

Ehem... I am in my twenties. 28 but I look around 25. The avatar isn't me, of course, it's of Jessica Lange from Rob Roy. But I have the same type of curl and secretly love that film. Anyhoo - I can therefore attest as a woman of her twenties that I love silver hair. And goodness, please do not generalize. Thank goodness not everybody is a robot and so many women will have so many opinions on what they like or dislike.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Who knows, maybe greying hair is actually a sign of healthier aging? As far as I can tell, the broadly negative view of graying hair is, currently, largerly or entirely based upon sociological and cultural underpinnings rather than scientific ones.

 

 

I haven't associate gray hair with diseases or anything, but with getting older. Many people want to maintain their youthfullness. But, yes, "greying hair" is probably good for you, at least if you are a gorilla. Silver back alpha males get all the girls...

 

Althought this might sound like kidding (and it is) there might be some truth in it. Maybe grey hair signals male authority, wealth and well being to females and is therefore a biological sign that separates men from boys?

 

 

In (one) female's point of view, I will say that I am very attracted to men with salt-and-pepper hair, or shining silver hair. The only thing is that I'm only attracted to them if they are a full head of hair and not balding. But I cannot speak on behalf of all women. But please know that some like 'em grey. And some like them bald! All the males in my family are bald, and I have witnessed many women attracted to them. So need not worry :-)

 

If you really care though, why not try a coffee-rinse? It works both as a temporary hair-dye as well as a DHT inhibitor...

 

 

The question I am interested in, is if women in their twenties like (or do not mind) grey hair. I started with some grey hair at a young age and I do not think this as a plus in dating in younger ages.

 

There are so many other things any particular woman in their 20s might not like you for that fixating on some gray hair is futile.  Like a lot of other things (e.g., being blond, ginger or having freckles, having facial hair, or some balding), gray hair is going to turn off some women but attract others like crazy.  Working out to have a nice body, being well-groomed and nicely dressed, and having good manners and cultivating your mind so you can have an interesting conversation are so much more important that some grey hair is relatively neutral in comparison.

This I agree with to no end. Just as a women can become quite banal in character if she fixates on certain parts of her looks and thus neglects character-building areas of her life, so can a man.