98 replies to this topic

[blood]

These people recommend DHA from fish oil (at higher doses than what he is getting from the cod liver oil).

http://www.dogcancer...d-treatment.php

I wonder if whey protein would be of benefit?

Blending small amounts of fresh liver, and mixing them into his liquid diet would seem like a good strategy to fight the anemia.

What kind of iron are you giving him? 75 mg seems like a massive amount. Could it be adding to the digestive issues? I wonder if smaller amounts of a better absorbed form of iron would be useful? Thorne uses iron picolinate in their canine supplements:
http://www.thorne.com/Products/VeterinaryProducts/prd~V936.jsp
http://www.thorne.co...on/prd~M258.jsp

Best of luck - hope he pulls through.

Edited by blood, 08 June 2013 - 10:57 AM.

[maxwatt]

In general vets avoid giving aspirin to dogs. Whilst some can tolerate it, most have problems. There are NSAIDs specifically for dogs, ask a vet about them.

Edited by maxwatt, 08 June 2013 - 05:49 PM.

[niner]

One member suggested vitamin K2 to help with blood clotting - what do people think about this?

Vitamin K only has a significant effect on clotting when there is a deficiency of it. Warfarin, an anti-clotting drug, work by inducing a vitamin K deficiency, for example. However, giving K to a mammal that isn't deficient is unlikely to make a difference. You could try it, in the event that your dog is deficient for some reason, but I wouldn't have high hopes for it.

[adam32]

Many thanks for your suggestions. The DHA from fish oil sounds interesting, although I have seen research saying that combing this with arginine is highly effective:


http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/jul2002_report_arginine_01.htm

Despite this the article mentions evidence that arginine can cause some tumors to grow, therefore I think I may give it a miss as I don't know the exact type of tumor so may make things worse.

I have very mixed feelings about the progress I my dog. The good news is that for 10 days he has not been sick once, stomach rumbling noise is down and today he has started to eat solid food again. This is in sharp contrast to his previous situation where he was unable to process any food and was being violently sick after every meal Despite this he seems to be getting physically weaker and cannot climb the stairs anymore or manage a 5 minute walk. Does anyone have any ideas what may be going on? The vet said that the tumor in his bowel would continue to grow and reach a stage where it would block the passage and result in him being constantly sick and death. It seems the sickness has improved so maybe the bowel tumor is shrinking but other tumors in his body are growing?

One thing I wanted to ask was that I have been giving him C60 twice a day when I administer the Mebendazole and PQQ. The dose has been very high (the same as a human dose) and I wondered if this has resulted in heavy breathing after another member suggested that:

"Old mitochondria are supposed to die off and be replaced with new young mitochondria and the way the body knows which are old is by the amount of ROS it produces. It may be that old mitos are being kept alive by C60oo's ROS quenching and not producing energy for the cell correctly."

As such it has been suggested that I only give him the C60 once a week. What do people think of this?

[niner]

One thing I wanted to ask was that I have been giving him C60 twice a day when I administer the Mebendazole and PQQ. The dose has been very high (the same as a human dose) and I wondered if this has resulted in heavy breathing after another member suggested that:

"Old mitochondria are supposed to die off and be replaced with new young mitochondria and the way the body knows which are old is by the amount of ROS it produces. It may be that old mitos are being kept alive by C60oo's ROS quenching and not producing energy for the cell correctly."

As such it has been suggested that I only give him the C60 once a week. What do people think of this?

I don't particularly buy the old mitochondria idea. That wouldn't be a cancer-specific problem, and it isn't seen in healthy animals. The thing that worries me about c60 in a case like this is somewhat hypothetical, but cancer cells tend to be oxidatively challenged, and might benefit from c60 even more than healthy cells. I wish we had some experimental work to generate some evidence for or against this hypothesis, but my inclination here would be to skip the c60.

Keep a sharp eye on your dog's physical condition and behavior in order to avoid putting him through unnecessary suffering. I really hope he gets better, but there may come a time when he no longer has a decent quality of life. You will have to be the judge of that.

[Logic]

Niner

It was me who recomended C60oo.
My hypothosis is that the Baati rats did not have a single cancer cell due to C60oo protecting the mitochondria from being switched off in pre/cancerous cells, thus allowing the apoptosis signal to be sent out by the mitochondria for said cells.
Also; as C60oo seems to prevent ROS primarily produced by mitochondria, and mitochondria are turned off in cancerous cells; there would be little benefit to cancerous cells from C60oo.
This would also stop or slow the cancer from spreading.

The Mebendazole and PQQ are part of the stack to turn switched off mitos back on and produce more mitos.
These are then protected from being switched off by C60oo.

If I remember correctly; you are one of the people who is taking C60oo weekly or bi-weekly?
Isn't your reasoning for doing this to allow time for the natural turnover of mitochondria?

I know that Mikey and others are taking C60oo daily without issue, but speculate that possibly old mitochondria are not being turned over in the healthy cells in the dog (Mebendazole and PQQ are confounding factors) and that this could be leading to his heavy breathing/lack of energy?
ie: The cancer is dying, but the healthy cells are not producing enough energy due to old mitochondria?

Thoughts?

[adam32]

Niner

Thanks for your reply. I am very interested to hear your views on Logic's post.

Also I have another question:

I have been making Liposomal Vitamin C for some time, however this site also suggests doing this with the Curcumin and Resveratrol and mixing together with the vitamin C in one concoction. What do people think about this:

http://www.pdazzler.com/archives/1005

On first impressions it would seem logical to make Liposomal Curcumin as I can see the Curcumin in the dogs excrement meaning that not much has entered the blood . On the other hand if I am trying to treat the bowel cancer does it matter that not much enters the blood since in the bowel the Curcumin will come into direct contact with the cancer anyway. Also what about mixing all together with the vitamin C - will this be less effective than taking all 3 ingredients at separate times?

[niner]

My hypothosis is that the Baati rats did not have a single cancer cell due to C60oo protecting the mitochondria from being switched off in pre/cancerous cells, thus allowing the apoptosis signal to be sent out by the mitochondria for said cells.
Also; as C60oo seems to prevent ROS primarily produced by mitochondria, and mitochondria are turned off in cancerous cells; there would be little benefit to cancerous cells from C60oo.
This would also stop or slow the cancer from spreading.

The Mebendazole and PQQ are part of the stack to turn switched off mitos back on and produce more mitos.
These are then protected from being switched off by C60oo.

If I remember correctly; you are one of the people who is taking C60oo weekly or bi-weekly?
Isn't your reasoning for doing this to allow time for the natural turnover of mitochondria?

I know that Mikey and others are taking C60oo daily without issue, but speculate that possibly old mitochondria are not being turned over in the healthy cells in the dog (Mebendazole and PQQ are confounding factors) and that this could be leading to his heavy breathing/lack of energy?
ie: The cancer is dying, but the healthy cells are not producing enough energy due to old mitochondria?

Thoughts?

My fear is that it works differently. Just considering what we've observed so far, Baati's rats didn't get cancer at all over their very long lives, which makes it look like c60 started early enough prevents the initiation or development of cancer. Of AgeVivo's three mice that were started on c60 in later life, two are healthy a year later, but one died several months after starting c60 from a lung tumor (observed on autopsy). This is consistent with c60 either not being real good at stopping an existing tumor, or with it actively promoting existing tumors. We don't know which it is, but the mouse that died showed no evidence of illness at the start of the experiment.

If I remember correctly, cancer alters the cell's metabolism via a cytosolic enzyme that deprives the mitochondria of fuel, so they are still functional, but have nothing to do. If this is the case, then c60 wouldn't reactivate the mitochondria, nor would PQQ. (I don't know how mebendazole affects mitochondria. It inhibits the formation of microtubules in parasitic worms. It works in the gut, but is poorly absorbed so you'd be unlikely to get much systemic exposure.) Many cancer cells are oxidatively challenged, and benefit from antioxidants. C60 being a powerful antioxidant, I worry that it would help cancer cells more than it would hurt them.

I've mostly dosed c60 once a month, although I've also looked at bi-weekly dosing. My rationale for this is the hypothetical cancer concern, so that new cancer cells would have more time to die before getting a dose of c60.

I think that the heavy breathing is probably due to something else- maybe metabolic disturbance, maybe related to blood loss, maybe metastasis? There are a lot of possibilities.

[Logic]

My fear is that it works differently. Just considering what we've observed so far, Baati's rats
didn't get cancer at all over their very long lives, which makes it look like c60 started early
enough prevents the initiation or development of cancer. Of AgeVivo's three mice that were
started on c60 in later life, two are healthy a year later, but one died several months after
starting c60 from a lung tumor (observed on autopsy). This is consistent with c60 either not
being real good at stopping an existing tumor, or with it actively promoting existing tumors. We
don't know which it is, but the mouse that died showed no evidence of illness at the start of the
experiment.

What we 'know' from the above is that C60oo prevents cancer from starting, but does not kill pre-
existing cancer.

If I remember correctly, cancer alters the cell's metabolism via a cytosolic enzyme that deprives
the mitochondria of fuel, so they are still functional, but have nothing to do. If this is the
case, then c60 wouldn't reactivate the mitochondria, nor would PQQ. (I don't know how mebendazole
affects mitochondria. It inhibits the formation of microtubules in parasitic worms. It works in
the gut, but is poorly absorbed so you'd be unlikely to get much systemic exposure.) Many cancer
cells are oxidatively challenged, and benefit from antioxidants. C60 being a powerful
antioxidant, I worry that it would help cancer cells more than it would hurt them.

I agree that the the mitochondria in cancer cells are still functional Niner, but it seems that
cancer cells actively suppress their mitochondria because mitochondria regulate cell apoptosis.
This enables the cancer cells to achieve resistance to apoptosis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2715872/
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21557214

I agree that mebendazole works on worms by destabilising microtubules, but there is evidence that it has a similar effect on cancer cells and is effective despite your doubts about bioavailability:

The Anthelmintic Drug Mebendazole Induces Mitotic Arrest and Apoptosis by Depolymerizing Tubulin in Non-Small Cell Lung Cancer Cells:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....ng Cancer Cells

Mebendazole Elicits a Potent Antitumor Effect on Human Cancer Cell Lines Both in Vitro and in Vivo:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....tro and in Vivo

Mebendazole Induces Apoptosis via Bcl-2 Inactivation in Chemoresistant Melanoma Cells:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.... Melanoma Cells

Mebendazole inhibits growth of human adrenocortical carcinoma cell lines implanted in nude mice:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....ed in nude mice

Antiparasitic mebendazole shows survival benefit in 2 preclinical models of glioblastoma multiforme:
http://www.ncbi.nlm....toma multiforme

Also as the cancer is in the bowel; boiavailability may not be am issue as the mebendazole would be in direct contact with the cancer?

As well as destabilising microtubules Mebendazole has also been shown to boost OXPHOS expression while suppressing ROS levels, as has deoxysappanone B, found in Green Tea and most other microtubule destabilizers:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2715872/

I am sure you are aware that PQQ is known to stimulate motochondrial biogenisis:
http://www.google.co....47810305,d.ZGU

Hence my speculation/hypothesis that green Tea, Mebendazole and PQQ may kickstart mitochondria and produce new mitochondria in Cancer cells, while C60oo may protect mitochondria from being suppressed by cancer.
Also: I speculate that C60oo stops pre/cancerous cells form disabling their mitochondria, which is why there were no cancer cells in Baati's rats.

I think that the heavy breathing is probably due to something else- maybe metabolic disturbance,
maybe related to blood loss, maybe metastasis? There are a lot of possibilities.

I speculate that the heavy breathing may be due to C60oo, along with the confounding factors Mebendazole and PQQ may be stopping the natural turnover of old mitochondria in healthy cells?

NB: That this is all pure speculation. But it is based on solid evidence and worthy of consideration and discussion IMHO.

Edited by Logic, 11 June 2013 - 11:49 PM.

[niner]

Thanks for that well-documented post, Logic. It looks like mebendazole could be useful here. It can have some GI side effects, but they are probably pretty minor, at least in healthy animals. I must have been remembering a paper that focused on a single aspect of the Warburg effect, because it's more complicated than that:

Biochim Biophys Acta. 2012 Dec;1826(2):370-84. doi: 10.1016/j.bbcan.2012.06.004. Epub 2012 Jun 27.
Dysregulation of glucose transport, glycolysis, TCA cycle and glutaminolysis by oncogenes and tumor suppressors in cancer cells.
Chen JQ, Russo J.

Breast Cancer Research Laboratory, Fox Chase Cancer Center, Philadelphia, PA 19111, USA. jinqiang.chen@fccc.edu

A common set of functional characteristics of cancer cells is that cancer cells consume a large amount of glucose, maintain high rate of glycolysis and convert a majority of glucose into lactic acid even in the presence of oxygen compared to that of normal cells (Warburg's Effects). In addition, cancer cells exhibit substantial alterations in several energy metabolism pathways including glucose transport, tricarboxylic acid (TCA) cycle, glutaminolysis, mitochondrial respiratory chain oxidative phosphorylation and pentose phosphate pathway (PPP). In the present work, we focused on reviewing the current knowledge about the dysregulation of the proteins/enzymes involved in the key regulatory steps of glucose transport, glycolysis, TCA cycle and glutaminolysis by several oncogenes including c-Myc and hypoxia inducible factor-1 (HIF-1) and tumor suppressor, p53, in cancer cells. The dysregulation of glucose transport and energy metabolism pathways by oncogenes and lost functions of the tumor suppressors have been implicated as important biomarkers for cancer detection and as valuable targets for the development of new anticancer therapies.

PMID: 22750268

I'm still hesitant about the use of c60 in cancer. It might help, it might hurt.. it's hard to predict how it would go. It would be great if we could convince an academic researcher to do a proper study of it.

[Logic]

Thanks for that well-documented post, Logic. It looks like mebendazole could be useful here. It can have some GI side effects, but they are probably pretty minor, at least in healthy animals. I must have been remembering a paper that focused on a single aspect of the Warburg effect, because it's more complicated than that:

Biochim Biophys Acta. 2012 Dec;1826(2):370-84. doi: 10.1016/j.bbcan.2012.06.004. Epub 2012 Jun 27.
Dysregulation of glucose transport, glycolysis, TCA cycle and glutaminolysis by oncogenes and tumor suppressors in cancer cells.
Chen JQ, Russo J.

Breast Cancer Research Laboratory, Fox Chase Cancer Center, Philadelphia, PA 19111, USA. jinqiang.chen@fccc.edu

A common set of functional characteristics of cancer cells is that cancer cells consume a large amount of glucose, maintain high rate of glycolysis and convert a majority of glucose into lactic acid even in the presence of oxygen compared to that of normal cells (Warburg's Effects). In addition, cancer cells exhibit substantial alterations in several energy metabolism pathways including glucose transport, tricarboxylic acid (TCA) cycle, glutaminolysis, mitochondrial respiratory chain oxidative phosphorylation and pentose phosphate pathway (PPP). In the present work, we focused on reviewing the current knowledge about the dysregulation of the proteins/enzymes involved in the key regulatory steps of glucose transport, glycolysis, TCA cycle and glutaminolysis by several oncogenes including c-Myc and hypoxia inducible factor-1 (HIF-1) and tumor suppressor, p53, in cancer cells. The dysregulation of glucose transport and energy metabolism pathways by oncogenes and lost functions of the tumor suppressors have been implicated as important biomarkers for cancer detection and as valuable targets for the development of new anticancer therapies.

PMID: 22750268

I'm still hesitant about the use of c60 in cancer. It might help, it might hurt.. it's hard to predict how it would go. It would be great if we could convince an academic researcher to do a proper study of it.

Thx Niner

I was under the assumption that you were aware of all this research as it is all posted in other threads here.
Most interesting IMHO at the moment is the suppression of CD47 which is highly expressed in cancer cells so as to send a 'Don't eat me' signal to one's macrophages.
The antigen (If I remember correctly) to suppress CD47 is available.

Also Vince of antiagingfirewalls has a very enlightening blog post up on the epigenetic changes common to both aging and cancer, along with supps and meds to counter these changes that I feel is worth its own thread here.
The list of epigenetic changes caused by C60 (posted elsewhere by Pleb) seems to tie in very well/positively with this list of epigenetic changes from my cursory look into this.

While the argument in my previous post is almost all speculation; and C60oo may be pro pre-existing cancer, I speculate that: As C60oo is mostly a mitochondrial antioxidant and mitochondria are 'switched off' in cancer cells; C60oo is anti-cancer overall.
A study looking at this hypothesis would be most welcome!

For now; I am holding thumbs that Adam32's dog gets well.

[niner]

I was under the assumption that you were aware of all this research as it is all posted in other threads here.

If only... I try to keep up, but I'm busier these days. The biggest problem is that I see stuff, don't write it down, then I forget about it. I should look into noots! I used to do a better job of maintaining note files, but I've really slipped on that. I should get back to it.

Also Vince of antiagingfirewalls has a very enlightening blog post up on the epigenetic changes common to both aging and cancer, along with supps and meds to counter these changes that I feel is worth its own thread here.
The list of epigenetic changes caused by C60 (posted elsewhere by Pleb) seems to tie in very well/positively with this list of epigenetic changes from my cursory look into this.

Cool. Any time you see something you think would be interesting to us, don't hesitate to start a thread or add it to an appropriate existing thread.

[Cassandra Coleman]

What about things like:

Avemar
AHCC
IP6

[Patrick Sylvester]

Also for the green tea do not give him green tea and don't even think about tablets, green tea contains caffeine and you probably know that caffeine kills dogs, even a small amount can become deadly.

how about giving l-theanine -- the amino acid constituent of green tea? i dont know what benefits the green tea was intended for but looking at wiki L-Theanine can reduce physical and mental stress and "may help the body's immune response to infection by boosting the disease-fighting capacity of gamma delta T cells. The study, published in 2003, included a four-week trial with 11 coffee drinkers and 10 tea drinkers, who consumed 600 milliliters of coffee or black tea daily. Blood sample analysis found the production of antibacterial proteins was up to five times higher in the tea drinkers, an indicator of a stronger immune response. L-Theanine may contain mast cell-stabilizing properties in an animal model"
though source is wiki, these reports are backed by pubmeds: 16930802, 12719524 & 21344174
best of luck.

[Patrick Sylvester]

as far as the resveratrol and grape toxicity connection, i have no idea. but i can provide this excerpt:

"The consumption of grapes presents a potential health threat to dogs. Their toxicity to dogs can cause the animal to develop acute renal failure (the sudden development of kidney failure) with anuria (a lack of urine production)."
"The reason some dogs develop renal failure following ingestion of grapes and raisins is not known. Types of grapes involved include both seedless and seeded, store bought and homegrown, and grape pressings from wineries. A mycotoxin is suspected to be involved, but one has not been found in grapes ingested by affected dogs. The estimated toxic dose of grapes is 32 g/kg (1.1oz/kg) (grams of grapes per kilograms of mass of the dog). Dogs suffer acute renal failure after ingesting 3 grams per kilogram of dry matter of grapes. (Dry matter is calculated as 20% of grape weight)."

"Resveratrol is found in the skin of red grapes and in other fruits as well as in the roots of Japanese knotweed (Polygonum cuspidatum). Red wine contains very little of it, however, on the order of 0.1-14.3 mg/l. Resveratrol also has been produced by chemical synthesis and by biotechnological synthesis (metabolic engineered microorganisms)"

considering it is made synthetically as well as being found in other plants besides grapes i think it is probable that resveratrol has not the same toxicity to dogs as grapes. as well as i find it rather unlikely that resveratrol replicates, infiltrates, harbors or recreates the unknown (suspected mycotoxin) toxicity. also, looking at the toxic dose of the grapes shows that you would have to give the dog 3g for every kilo of their body weight.

[Breestyle]

Adam32, looks like there are quite a few of us on here rooting for you and really hope your pup is improving. You haven't posted in awhile... any updates?

[Logic]

I have been communicating via Email.

From the 22nd:
"...continues to improve slowly and even goes for little walks now. For the last 4 days he has been really good, however this morning he does not want to eat his food so it may be a small blip..."

I think its been 8 weeks since the dog was given 2 weeks to live.
I'm holding thumbs and like to think that our advice is working?

[Breestyle]

That's great Logic - thx - I was really hoping no news was good news. Would love to know what supplement regimen he decided on after all the input and which ones he feels might be providing the most benefits (and which ones were discontinued). Any additional details would be appreciated.

[Logic]

That's great Logic - thx - I was really hoping no news was good news. Would love to know what supplement regimen he decided on after all the input and which ones he feels might be providing the most benefits (and which ones were discontinued). Any additional details would be appreciated.

Pleasure Breestyle

If I remember correctly the supps are:
Curcumin
Resveratrol
Coconut Oil
PQQ
Mebendazole
Hemp Oil
I3C
Ginger
Selinium (all 3 forms from LEF)
C60oo
Vitamin C (Lyposomal I think)

I am not sure on the dosages, but Adam32 will be back from his trip within a week and will update then.

[adam32]

First of all I want to thank everyone for their suggestions and offer this update on the dog:


It is now 2 months and 1 week since the vet gave the dog less than 2 weeks to live and it has been quite a difficult journey so far. By the second / third week the dog was in a really bad way. He could not get up the stairs, lost all motivation for life and just sat and soiled himself in one place for 3 days. It got to the stage where I was about to phone the vet and have him put to sleep, however he seemed to then perk up. Initially the dog was only taking lypospherica vitamin C, however I really don't feel it helped him much. I then started looking at other things and acquired some Mebendazole, Resveratrol and the other things listed below. I fed him a liquid diet of only egg yolks and the stack below up until about week 6. I was then able to introduce some solid food into his diet, to the point where he can eat about 3 chicken breasts a day without being sick. As such I only give him 2 egg yolks a day with his stack below. From week 6 he then started wanting to go for walks (something he had not done for about a month) On a good day he can now walk for about 10 minutes. Other positives are that his faeces has returned to an almost normal colour, instead of the black colour it was (this indicated blood loss) I have now changed the C60 to only once a week and this seem to have done the trick with stopping the heavy breathing.


Despite the above it is not all positive. Despite the fact that he is now eating solid food again he does not seem to be putting on any weight. He is still painfully thin. The other problem is when he has eaten you can hear his stomach squelching loudly for a few hours, thus indicating a problem with stomach acid. This is obviously very uncomfortable for him. His condition is also inconsistent as he can have 4 or 5 excellent days where he is really bright and eating etc, then he will suddenly go downhill for a day or so and not want to eat etc. Despite this I feel there are more good days than bad.
Here is the stack he is currently on:


1000mg Curcumin
400mcg Super Selenium Complex (life extension)
10mg Super K with Advanced K2 Complex (life extension)
10mg PQQ (life extension)
3grams Resveratrol
2500mg Vitamin C
Vitamin D 50iu
Vitamin E 100iu
1 Tablespoon of Coconut oil
1 Teaspoon barley grass powder
2 Tablespoons of Hemp protein powder
20ml Hemp oil
40ml Ginger Oil
20ml Olive leaf complex
20ml Fish oil
2 Egg yolks


Apart from the above he has the C60 once per week. He does not have the Mebendazole anymore as it has run out. One member suggested taking a break from this for a while. Also I have stopped the I3C as I found it was making him sick.

[Logic]

I am very pleased to hear that your dog is still improving Adam32.

It seems that either the mitochondria are being 'turned on' in the cancer cells, sending out an apoptosis signal for said cells, or epigenetic changes caused by the stack is killing the cancer.
Perhaps both??

I am also pleased to hear that the change in dosing schedule for C60oo to once a week has 'cured' the dog's heavy breathing.
This seems to point to my hypothesis about new and 'turned on again' mitochondria being too well protected by C60oo and not being given a chance for 'natural selection' to take place being true..?

Please feel free to mention the 'one member' as I am quite proud of my involvement in your dog's treatment.
Let me know if you feel that more Mebendazole is required so that I can get more shipped to you.

For his noisy stomach after eating perhaps research probiotics and prebiotics for dogs:
http://www.whole-dog...th_20496-1.html
http://www.vetuk.co....roducts-c-5_172
http://www.halopets....nal-health.html

The dog's intestinal flora have probably taken a huge knock from the cancer and all the supps and meds he is/was on and its the bowel, rather than the stomach, you are hearing?

I also wonder about the large dose of vitamin C as dogs produce their own C.
The C may be having or had a positive effect when it was in direct contact with the cancer in the bowel, but can now perhaps be considered an overdose of C?
Perhaps slowly cutting down on the dosage is a good idea?

[Breestyle]

Apart from the above he has the C60 once per week.

So glad to get the update that your dog is doing better! Have a few questions that will be helpful for my own situation.

I've reread up but unable to find an amount or method used for dosing the C60.
1. You mention being currently on a once per week schedule... how many mg do you give him in that weekly dose?
2. Do you mix with food or use a syringe?
3. How do you divide his stack (ie, all together or throughout the day?, can he tolerate multiple sups at once?)

[adam32]

Hi Breestyle

Do you have a similar situation with a dog? To answer your questions:

1) I could not find much information on the C60 dose. The only thing I found related to experiments with rats. So I was not sure whether to take the weight of a rat and scale the dose to the dogs weight? The problem is my dog has cancer so it is not like the experiment with the C60 rats. Therefore I went for a much higher dose of C60 (about half the quantity of a human) This equated to about 1 pipette. In the first week I gave the C60 everyday and now just give it once a week for maintenance (this was following a recommendation from Logic). It may be worth asking some knowledgeable members about dosing as mine seems to be guesswork.

2) I give him all the stack with a syringe squirted into his mouth. Although he is eating he is still very fussy and won't touch food if it has things mixed in. I mix all the stuff together apart from the resveratrol, C60 and the PQQ. I may start making a liposomal mix as shown here:

http://www.pdazzler.com/archives/1005

3) I make the stack in the morning and then divide it into 60ml syringes. He gets one of these syringes every 3 hours throughout the day between meals. I found multiple sups at once is no problem.

The resveratrol he has first thing in the morning and last thing at night. C60 is also given last thing at night along with the PQQ and Mebendazole. Everything else is given altogether throughout the day in the 60ml Syringes

Edited by adam32, 10 July 2013 - 12:23 AM.

[adam32]

Just thought I would give everyone an update on the dog as it has now been 3.5 months since his diagnoses.

there have been many ups and downs with Tommy. Just when I thought he was pulling through he would go down again. The good news is he has been consistently good for about 2 weeks. There is no longer any blood visible in the feces and the amazing thing is he even managed a 3 mile walk yesterday lunch time, although he was very tired all day. I no longer have to give him supplements / food in a syringe as his appetite is amazing. When I was out yesterday he even jumped onto the kitchen counter and eat an entire birthday cake!

Despite these positive developments I can definitely see a sizable lump at the back of his bowel very close to the anus. My guess may be that the other cancer has gone but this remains. Due to the place of the cancer I wonder if it would be better to administer supplements (Curcumin ?) directly into the Anus? It will then be in direct contact with the cancer, without having to go through the digestive system?

As for supplements the only thing he has at the moment is:
Curcumin
Sellenium
Resveratrol
C600

I stopped the Vitamin C a long time ago as I found it was making him sick and did not seem to help. After all dogs synthesize their own vitamin C.

His diet consist completely of chicken or fish with plenty of vegetables (Broccoli, peas, carrots etc)

I am very tempted to try another cycle of Mebendazole where I will give it to him for 3 days with a 2 week gap. What do people think? Does anyone have any other recommendations?

Edited by adam32, 17 August 2013 - 09:09 AM.

[MizTen]

Just thought I would give everyone an update on the dog as it has now been 3.5 months since his diagnoses.

there have been many ups and downs with Tommy. Just when I thought he was pulling through he would go down again. The good news is he has been consistently good for about 2 weeks. There is no longer any blood visible in the feces and the amazing thing is he even managed a 3 mile walk yesterday lunch time, although he was very tired all day. I no longer have to give him supplements / food in a syringe as his appetite is amazing. When I was out yesterday he even jumped onto the kitchen counter and eat an entire birthday cake!

Despite these positive developments I can definitely see a sizable lump at the back of his bowel very close to the anus. My guess may be that the other cancer has gone but this remains. Due to the place of the cancer I wonder if it would be better to administer supplements (Curcumin ?) directly into the Anus? It will then be in direct contact with the cancer, without having to go through the digestive system?

As for supplements the only thing he has at the moment is:
Curcumin
Sellenium
Resveratrol
C600

I stopped the Vitamin C a long time ago as I found it was making him sick and did not seem to help. After all dogs synthesize their own vitamin C.

His diet consist completely of chicken or fish with plenty of vegetables (Broccoli, peas, carrots etc)

I am very tempted to try another cycle of Mebendazole where I will give it to him for 3 days with a 2 week gap. What do people think? Does anyone have any other recommendations?

Thank you for posting the news. This is really impressive considering the seriousness of your dog's condition. It sounds like he may be healing or at least you've given him some respite from all the extreme discomforts he was experiencing.

He's definitely feeling better if he can successfully attack a whole birthday cake. A certain amount of enjoyment is huge, even when maybe it's not so healthy!

I have found with my dog, (very similar symptoms to yours but older) that exercise needs to be used with caution. Though he absolutely needs to walk and play regularly, he weakens easily and can also have a lot of post-exercise pain. This fluctuates a lot. Twice he has been 24 hours or less away from euthanasia. But always, he rallies. So I measure out the amount of exercise much like I do with his meds. Pain control was very helpful, again has to be managed carefully, as one med is an opiate and the other is an NSAID. I also add fats in moderate amounts; coconut oil and pastured butter, and raw pastured beef and lamb fat.

I am also giving him bone broth as much as possible. Part of his problem is leaky gut, which is probably what gave the intestinal cancer a way to grow and infiltrate. Another part of his problem is pain and weakness from wrecked joints and bones. The bone broth addresses both problems, though pain management with conventional drugs is equally important. Though he was never overtrained in a fashion that would wreck his joints, he was indoors a lot and did not, until he got sick, have an optimal diet. I believe the processed dog food and inclusion of "trash food" such as soy meal, corn meal, etc in his dog food over time, degraded his gut, immune system, his joints, and this ultimately caused and accelerated cancer. He was also always very vaccine sensitive, to the point where I had to stop having him vaccinated due to seizures and anyphilactic shock.

Good luck with anal administration of supps andor meds. If he will tolerate it and you can carry on with that for a while, it could possibly do the trick to take out his cancer.

I don't understand enough about Mebendazole to comment helpfully, but if you think it helped him before maybe it's worth a shot if you can guard against the negative side problems. Even if it's not directly acting on live parasites, it is possible that parasitic cysts were causing part of his problem, so Mebendazole could be really helpful. Those cysts can probably become cancerous if the dog's immune system and gut are already compromised.

Some recommendations I was given, from a naturopathic vet and from the farmer who raises my grassfed meat:

Bonebroth is therapeutic, the vet gives it to her 3 and 7 year-old dogs with great results
Probiotics can be very helpful for dogs with digestive problem, possibly healing or preventing cancer.
Raw food is therapeutic, grind up the veggies though, and do not include onions, garlic, or avocado
Give dogs raw bones frequently (raw bones act as a heavy sedative on both my dogs!)
The Farmer said he's seen many a working dog heal from similar symptoms on a diet that includes a lot of bone broth and raw fat from grassfed livestock, mostly beef and lamb. He gives away the bones and fat, so he doesn't have a profit agenda on this recommendation.

I'm very glad you updated, I was wondering what was up and hoping for the best. Tommy's story is very impressive. He got lucky having you as his caregiver!

[Logic]

I am glad Tommy is doing well. Sadly I will not be able to assist with more Mebendazole for him as I am now in Mozambique. Perhaps contact other South African forum members?

[ta5]

PLoS One. 2013;8(2):e57779. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0057779. Epub 2013 Feb 28.

γ-Tocotrienol induces paraptosis-like cell death in human colon carcinoma SW620 cells.

Zhang JS, Li DM, Ma Y, He N, Gu Q, et al.

Colorectal cancer is one of the most serious illnesses among diagnosed cancer. As a new type of anti-cancer composition from tocotrienol-rich fraction of palm oil, γ-tocotrienol is widely used in anti-cancer research. The objectives of this study were to investigate the effects of γ-tocotrienol on human colon cancer SW620 and HCT-8 cells. We showed that treatment with different concentrations of γ-tocotrienol resulted in a dose dependent inhibition of cell growth. Cell death induced by γ-tocotrienol was mediated by a paraptosis-like cell death in SW620 and HCT-8 cells. Real-time RT-PCR and western blot analyses showed that γ-tocotrienol inhibited the expression level of β-catenin, cyclin D1 and c-jun. These data suggest that a paraptosis-like cell death induced by γ-tocotrienol in SW620 cells is associated with the suppression of the Wnt signaling pathway, which offers a novel tool for treating apoptosis-resistance colon cancer.
PMCID: PMC3585143
PMID: 23469066

[blood]

Would be curious to hear an update.

[Pablo77]

I wonder how long the dog survived. I imagine it was quite painful for the animal. I hope sufficient pain medication was provided to ease suffering.

I expect the original author has not returned to the website since his pet's demise.

[adam32]

I wonder how long the dog survived. I imagine it was quite painful for the animal. I hope sufficient pain medication was provided to ease suffering.

I expect the original author has not returned to the website since his pet's demise.

Actually it is quite the opposite, the dog is doing really well. I wanted to return and post an update but was going to do this after I had arranged another scan so that I could give a clearer picture. In the time since my original post the following has happened:

1) The dog has put on nearly 5kg
2) Generally he seems really well and does not present in any way that he is ill.
3) He eats 3 times a day and is as crazy about food as before the cancer diagnosis (even stealing food by opening doors!)
3) For the last 6 months I have been walking the dog between 3-5 miles every day.

I must mention that every couple of months the dog may go down for a couple of days (off food, slight blood in stool and lack of energy) but always comes back up. I suspect that the cancer hasn't completely gone but it is very much under control.

I am enormously grateful for the help I have received on here, especially to Logic who has been fantastic. I will post later the current supplements / medication that the dog is on.

I really think the dog will last a year now (with quality life), something which is quite unbelievable considering that the vet had given him a maximum of 2 weeks because of the extend of the cancer.

As for pain killers I have a plentiful stash, but haven't had to use them for months.