379 replies to this topic

[ScienceGuy]

ScienceGuy, do you know what the actual cause/mechanism for toxicity from glutamate is?

Yes, the toxicity from GLUTAMATE is caused via a biological process called EXCITOTOXICITY

I have found an article for you that details more about this particular subject in pretty much layman's terms that you should find interesting, which you can read HERE: SCIENCEDAILY - Excitotoxicity and cell damage

[...]

Eh.. I've got a few hundred sitting around, so why not?

I'm in.

Edited by ..., 19 May 2013 - 06:57 AM.

[Steve Zissou]

I'm in.

[brand2]

i'm in.

[Thor]

I'm also in.

[meatsauce]

I am interested as well.

[telight]

ScienceGuy did you read the study that yada linked on page 2. It seems to suggest that there is in fact a low probability of neurotoxicity at nootropic doses. Why still discuss neurotoxicity?

[Reformed-Redan]

ScienceGuy did you read the study that yada linked on page 2. It seems to suggest that there is in fact a low probability of neurotoxicity at nootropic doses. Why still discuss neurotoxicity?

It's worth mentioning because it be best not combine IDRA-21 with any other glutamate precursors or stimulants. Actually you would want to add some neuroprotective compound to be on the safe side.

[ScienceGuy]

ScienceGuy did you read the study that yada linked on page 2. It seems to suggest that there is in fact a low probability of neurotoxicity at nootropic doses. Why still discuss neurotoxicity?

It's worth mentioning because it be best not combine IDRA-21 with any other glutamate precursors or stimulants. Actually you would want to add some neuroprotective compound to be on the safe side.

Yadayada was kind enough to answer your question for me; wherein, his answer absolutely hits the nail on the head

And yes, I have indeed read that study; wherein, as you have correctly stated the study does indeed suggest "a low probability of neurotoxicity at nootropic doses", but you will note it does NOT suggest an impossibility

Whilst it is to an extent reassuring that the duration of elevation of Ca++ and subsequent increase of CA++ INFLUX is relatively short-lived; however, it occurs none the less, and hence there still exists the POSSIBILITY of EXCITOTOXICITY, even though the extent is very much reduced as compared with other substances such as SUNIFIRAM; and is certainly absolutely dosage dependant

Consequently, personally I would recommend one ascertains what is the minimum dosage that yields the desired therapeutic effects and avoid ramping up the dosage to the extent wherein the probability of manifestation of NEUROTOXICITY significantly increases

In short, CAUTION should be implemented when deciding on dosages for IDRA-21; as it has not been unknown for enthusiastic members of this forum to try out (on their lab rat) mega-doses and/or massively multiple repeat doses within a 24-hour period (e.g. 6 times per day); wherein, such actions in this particular instance would be ill advised due to IDRA-21's very much DOSAGE DEPENDANT potential for NEUROTOXICITY

AND, as Yadayada so excellently stated, it is also advised that you "best not combine IDRA-21 with any other glutamate precursors or stimulants. Actually you would want to add some neuroprotective compound to be on the safe side"

Edited by ScienceGuy, 21 May 2013 - 04:34 AM.

[Karmakenic]

I'll be in if your willing to post to Australia.

[Patrick Sylvester]

AND, as Yadayada so excellently stated..... Actually you would want to add some neuroprotective compound to be on the safe side"

considering this realization maybe a list of potentially synergistic neuroprotective compounds would be a productive side discussion while waiting out the buy process, maybe something that promotes BDNF?

[Reformed-Redan]

AND, as Yadayada so excellently stated..... Actually you would want to add some neuroprotective compound to be on the safe side"

considering this realization maybe a list of potentially synergistic neuroprotective compounds would be a productive side discussion while waiting out the buy process, maybe something that promotes BDNF?

Afobazole, flavenoids, hydergine, ALCAR, taurine, plain 'ol vitamin C.

Obviously you don't have to take all of the above. Just best not combine stims or glutamate precursors with IDRA-21. Like MSG for example.

[Patrick Sylvester]

maybe not something that harms the liver, but what bout the more potent BDNF generators? Vitamin P maybe?
what action of the stimulants should users be wary of; as in eugeroics are fine?

[ihsanozkan]

I am in

[cere_user5678910]

I'm interested in trialing.

[allstargajo]

yadayada,

Any updates regarding the order? Price, mim. amount, supplier, ETA? Do you need any help with this?

[Reformed-Redan]

yadayada,

Any updates regarding the order? Price, mim. amount, supplier, ETA? Do you need any help with this?

I'm expecting a quote from a checked out supplier in a couple of days. Will post everything I know.

[v7znay]

looking forward for a quote, will be interesting for sure

[Galantamine]

Based on this compunds mechanism, neurotoxicity will not be likely at all, even at very large doses.

[trip96]

I am interested in this group buy as well. Sounds like a good one.

[Reformed-Redan]

Based on an older quote from 2012 from a trustworthy supplier who has been checked many times over here. Hehe, I'll be holding him to his word based on my presumption that prices haven't radically changed since 2012. The quote for 10g of (+)-IDRA-21 was $800.

Now, I'm not sure if this was a quote for racemic mixture or a pure positive optical isomer. If the former is the case then you might bump that price up by $500, which ends up being $1300 for 10g of (+)-IDRA-21.

I think 1g should be sufficient for 10 members of an initial trial group buy to asses the effects of the compound on rats. What do you guys think?

If the synthesis can be scaled up without incurring large costs I would still be open for a larger group buy. However, keeping things smaller does simplify things quite a bit.

I also have a quote for an ever more potent version of (+)-IDRA-21 based on literature, which I might reserve after (+)-IDRA-21 checks out.

Anyway, everything seems possible at this point.

[ScienceGuy]

UPDATE:

Hi Everyone,

I have now received the quotation from the EUROPEAN CUSTOM SYNTHESIS LAB whom I have used previously; and it is as follows:

IDRA-21 RACEMATE; PURITY: >99.9%; QUANTITY: 200g = US$5,200

Thoughts?

Edited by ScienceGuy, 25 May 2013 - 06:00 PM.

[alecnevsky]

I am also in.

Science guy, would uridine in this context be considered neuro-protective or a stimulant by your suggestion?

Edited by alecnevsky, 25 May 2013 - 06:03 PM.

[Metagene]

So as of now we have over 50 individuals that are "in"? Sounds good.

[Izan]

UPDATE:

Hi Everyone,

I have now received the quotation from the EUROPEAN CUSTOM SYNTHESIS LAB whom I have used previously; and it is as follows:

IDRA-21 RACEMATE; PURITY: >99.9%; QUANTITY: 200g = US$5,200

Thoughts?

very nice!

[Reformed-Redan]

We need just the positive optical isomer so what would be the cost of that ScienceGuy?

[Q did it!]

I am in if we go with ScienceGuys supplier

Just a thought: So what do you guys think will come of theses group buys / possible trends?

[Patrick Sylvester]

enhanced cognition

[autopilot]

UPDATE:

Hi Everyone,

I have now received the quotation from the EUROPEAN CUSTOM SYNTHESIS LAB whom I have used previously; and it is as follows:

IDRA-21 RACEMATE; PURITY: >99.9%; QUANTITY: 200g = US$5,200

Thoughts?

Wish I could have 5mg of those in uk.

[CLR]

Sounds promising, I'm down!