13 replies to this topic

[MasterHerb]

I am currently taken New Chapter's Mindforce and Doxiderol. Should I add piracetam to this? What other stuff should I add?

[MasterHerb]

Any tips? Just ordered some epiphany d to add to my stack. I am trying to avoid mixing.

[MasterHerb]

Update: After extensive research and reading of this forum, here is my new stack(Again my goal is to avoid mixing).

My Stack:

Armodafinil(50 mg)
New Chapter Fish Pills
Epiphany D1
New Chapter Every Man's One Daily Multivitamin
New Chapter Mind Force (Lions Mane,cordyceps, among other mushrooms)
New Chapter Probiotic All Flora(contains 125mg Artichoke among other things)

Other supplements:
Zyrtec
Quantum Migralief
New Chapter Cinnamon Force

Edited by MasterHerb, 27 May 2013 - 12:14 AM.

[MasterHerb]

Any tips please???? So many views and no replies.



Alpha GPC (225 mg), Mucana Pruriens (225 mg), Aniracetam (200 mg), Oxiracetam (180 mg), Acacia Rigidula (175 mg), Bacopa Monnieri (150 mg), Sulbutiamine (150 mg), Caffeine (95 mg), Amla (50 mg), Theobromine (50 mg), Magnesium Citrate (20 mg), Calcium (10 mg), Phosphatidylserine (10 mg), Vinpocetine (10 mg), N-Methyl-D-Aspartic Acid (5 mg), Bioperine (3 mg), Manganese (2 mg), Niacinimide (1 mg), Vitamin B1 (1 mg), Vitamin B2 (1 mg), Vitamin B6 (1 mg), Vitamin B12 (.20 mg), Chromium (35 mg), Folic Acid (500 mcg), Zinc (10 mg) Armodafinil(50 mg) Lions Mane (500mg) Fish Pills(180mg EPA and 220mg DHA)

[NoopMed]

So it looks like that's the list of everything in Epiphany D along with the ingredients from the other compounded supplements in your stack?

Mucana Pruriens (225 mg) -- This contains L-DOPA, 5-HTP, DMT, and other stuff, albeit at low doses... I've never tried it. Sounds interesting, and potentially unpredictable.
Acacia Rigidula (175 mg) -- This contains a number of compounds, ultimately amounting to acting as an amphetamine stimulant. Never tried it, personally.

I would be careful mixing the above two supplements with Modafinil/Armodafinil. Your Armodafinil is a good, conservative dose, but if you have any predisposition for cardiac arrhythmia or hypertension, I wouldn't risk it. If you've got a pressure cuff and stethoscope, or other pressure monitioring device around, I would recommend checking your blood pressure periodically to see how the combination effects you.


Moving on, all of the stuff in this stack has known benefits, but the most straightforward problem I see with it is the timing of doses. If you're taking all of this at once, you're not really timing the pharmacokinetics ideally. For example, Bacopa monnieri at 150mg could be taking once in the morning, and perhaps once again in the afternoon, but Aniracetam has a pretty short half life and could probably be taken 3-5 times in a given day and 200mg isn't going to provide much other than a minor (or placebo) effect in the first place. Oxiracetam on the other hand has a much longer half life and could be taken just twice a day-- but again 180mg is probably too low.

In regard to Racetams in general, I still have the best luck with higher doses of Piracetam-- on the order of 3.6-7.2g spread throughout the day in 3 separate doses. Oxiracetam feels like MDMA to me sometimes, increases my blood pressure occasionally, and always leaves me feeling great but generally scatter-brained. I can't study with it. Aniracetam is good, but it's too inconsistent for me. Good old reliable Piracetam has proven time and again to provide me with the most reliability and highest test scores.

I think the Bacopa is good, I wish I could take it... I can never tolerate the GI side effects, but some people can. There's speculation that it may contain some bowel prokinetic chemical of some kind, or it may just be ramping up ACh to a huge degree in the enteric nervous system of some people. The jury is still out, much like my colon after a couple days on the stuff. Other than that, the nootropic potential of Bacopa is very promising and for the short periods I've taken it, I've definitely noticed an improvement in my memory and general cognition. I take Ginkgo biloba as an alternative to Bacopa, as a few of the cholinergic benefits overlap.

I've always hated Sulbutiamine. I've tried to make it work multiple times, but I always get a crash from it followed by a generally distasteful mood. I think it might be useful at very low doses for me, but I haven't tried.

Phosphatidylserine at 10mg, even 3 times a day, is probably too little to make a difference. And, I'm still not convinced it does much at all in young healthy individuals. I tried 100mg per day for several months and had no noticeable benefit. As an essential membrane lipid component, it seems beneficial in theory, but might be more significant in the aging brain.

Vinpocetine always works great for me in the short term. AKA, if I need a boost for 4-6 hours at a time, I will take one 5mg or 10mg pill every at the start and again 3 hours later. The half life is short and I can definitely feel it wear off rather quickly. I also feel like it has diminishing returns with re-dosing. I've tried taking it over the course of an entire day, and just begin to feel burned out. The reason I never take it regularly is because it has known capability to deplete vesicular dopamine loading at the presynaptic terminal and also may have immunsuppressant qualities. Keep in mind, it's very closely related to two potent chemotherapeutic drugs, Vincristine and Vinblastine, which are able to kill high active cells (like cancer cells, and occasionally your peripheral nerve cells, hair cells, and various blood cells along with the cancer). Vincristine and vinblastine accomplish this by disrupting the action of microtubules within cells, preventing mitosis. Vinpocetine very well may do this to some extent, perhaps with lower affinity. This hasn't been shown, but considering it has been shown to deplete presynaptic dopamine, causing a reversible depressive state--- and a dysfunction of dopamine transport down axonal microtubules is a reasonable hypothesis for this--- I'm left weary of it. Also, every time I've tried to take Vinpocetine regularly (ie a week or two), I've invariably come down with a minor cold. I do work in a hospital, so my exposure level is high, but I've always been suspicious that Vinpocetine is a potent immunosuppressant, at least for me. (I also have some medical history that predisposes me to a bit weaker immune system-- so perhaps the balance was tipped-- but I don't normally get sick with any kind of regularity. And again, I work/study in a hospital 60ish hours a week, and minor colds still aren't normally a problem for me.

Alpha GPC, while in theory this is the ideal choline supplement, evidence for its efficacy is still lacking... and despite Choline bitartrate having such poor bioavailability, I still find it to work better and more reliably for me than Alpha GPC in the context of studying. Don't get me wrong, Alpha GPC is definitely absorbed well, and I can certainly feel it doing something. I'm just more concerned that it puts my neural acetylcholine levels TOO high. Whenever I take it, I lose focus, become more distractable, and test worse. It's very nice for a nature walk, I always get a very nice enhancement of olfaction and vision. Great stuff to take with Noopept and go on a hike!

I don't really know anything about Alma. Don't have time to research it right now, sorry.

Lions Mane is probably great when taken long term, and that dose looks appropriate. I've had trouble finding a good source for it. The stuff I tried once seemed to give me a rash, and made me very itchy. The preliminary evidence behind this mushroom is very convincing, but it just hasn't been explored deeply yet. I may give it another go someday soon if I find a good source.

The minerals you have listed all look good to me.


Hope that helps! You've seen my stack. If I had to describe yours, (Aside from Armodafinil and the stims) I would call it a very broad-spectrum neural support stack. I'm not sure everything is going to make an impact, but I doubt it will hurt...much. The only concern I see with taking many different supplements, particularly from something like Epiphany D (a compounded supplement), is source quality. The biggest concern here in the absence of FDA regulation is heavy metal (and other toxin) contamination as producers try to cut corners and maximize profit. I'm always suspicious in that regard. I try to buy powders with documentation of purity, and try to buy mono-supplement pills from supplement companies that document certification by some kind of oversight committee (as weak as that oversight may actually be in reality...it's something at least). As an example, NOW is certified by the Natural Products Association, and the racetams from Newstar Nootropics also provide 3rd party lab testing reports. Short term these kind of concerns aren't a major issue, but with long term use there's always a risk for long term exposure to contaminants and issues down the road like heavy metal accumulation, liver and bladder cancer, etc. My stacks tend to focus towards high output, narrower spectrum performance-- ie studying medicine. And, as you've seen, I find high dose Piracetam and choline with moderate ginkgo, caffeine, and a few odds and ends to provide the biggest benefit while keeping it relatively simple.

Take care and good luck!

[MasterHerb]

Thank you so much for the input...would it be a good idea to supplement this stack with a high dose of Piracetam?

[NoopMed]

I think if it's working for you, I'd leave it as is. Adding high dose piracetam to this might be interesting, it might make it more powerful, but it might just muddy up what you've already got going on. Piracetam has very, very low potency (meaning it will take quite a bit to notice a difference, and the there's a lot of leeway in the amount you take at any given time. It's safe and easy to experiment with a with range of doses.). However, it also has very high efficacy (meaning at the right dose, for you, it may have more potential to maximally improve cognition than some of the more potent racetams). At high dose, I get more out of it than I do with the other racetams at any dose level. But, there's only one way to find out... Trying it.

The best strategy is consistency and objective measurement. When you find something that works for you, stick to it, and make small additions to fine tune it. That's the difficulty I see with something like Epiphany D... There are so many elements, and each one has the potential to act differently in you than in another person. Adding, subtracting, and adjusting elements of your stack is an important part of fine tuning what works for you. I add things here and there and test my performance after a couple days on it. I tend to select a random assortment of questions for my board-prep QBanks, covering material I've already studied, as a measure of performance. Finding some kind of online brain quizzes that can provide a random assortment of new questions each time would be a good option too. There are other threads somewhere on Longecity that link some of those I think. Stick with a stack for at least a week and test yourself. Subjective assessment, "how you feel," is rarely sufficient to judge a stack unless the purpose of that stack is mood enhancement, motivation, etc... More often than not, I've found that supplements that make you feel smarter or feel more motivated rarely correlate to higher test performance. For me personally, the most consistent high performance has come from a base line of 2+g of Piracetam, 500mg+ choline, and 60+mg of Ginkgo. That simple trio is always at the core of my stack. I change the amounts of each sometimes, and I add things to it. I take it roughly every 5 hours I'm awake. I also take the equivalent of a multivitamin and fish oil every morning. From there, I experiment with a variety of supplements-- rarely making any significant headway, and often running into side effects or a decrease in the efficacy of my core stack. More is not always better. Basically, keeping it simple and slowly experimenting with what works best for you is the way to go.

[MasterHerb]

I currently have a trial pack(10 capsules) of Epiphany....not sure if I will buy a full bottle though. I do not like all the stimulants/wide variety of ingredients it contains. I just ordered some soy lecithin, picamilon,piracetam, and gingko. The New Chapter vitamin is pretty potent and contains many of the ingredients in spark powder. I plan to take caffeine as needed from vitamin water citrus energy, which has worked better for me than coffee in the past .

[NoopMed]

I currently have a trial pack(10 capsules) of Epiphany....not sure if I will buy a full bottle though. I do not like all the stimulants/wide variety of ingredients it contains. I just ordered some soy lecithin, picamilon,piracetam, and gingko. The New Chapter vitamin is pretty potent and contains many of the ingredients in spark powder. I plan to take caffeine as needed from vitamin water citrus energy, which has worked better for me than coffee in the past .

Regarding the Vitamin Water: it has quite a bit less caffeine than Coffee, but that extra kick you experience likely comes from the Panax Ginseng and Guarana. Guarana is a caffeine analogue, also antagonizing adenosine receptors, and Panax Ginseng has a wide range of stimulant activity. I like Panax Ginseng, and a study did show that it has a synergistic effect with Ginkgo biloba, but I often feel a bit too hyped up on it... plus it may be a phytoestrogen. Not sure I want that for chronic use, though the effects are probably negligible in reality.

[MasterHerb]

I currently have a trial pack(10 capsules) of Epiphany....not sure if I will buy a full bottle though. I do not like all the stimulants/wide variety of ingredients it contains. I just ordered some soy lecithin, picamilon,piracetam, and gingko. The New Chapter vitamin is pretty potent and contains many of the ingredients in spark powder. I plan to take caffeine as needed from vitamin water citrus energy, which has worked better for me than coffee in the past .

Regarding the Vitamin Water: it has quite a bit less caffeine than Coffee, but that extra kick you experience likely comes from the Panax Ginseng and Guarana. Guarana is a caffeine analogue, also antagonizing adenosine receptors, and Panax Ginseng has a wide range of stimulant activity. I like Panax Ginseng, and a study did show that it has a synergistic effect with Ginkgo biloba, but I often feel a bit too hyped up on it... plus it may be a phytoestrogen. Not sure I want that for chronic use, though the effects are probably negligible in reality.

I do not think vitamin water contains any ginseng.

[NoopMed]

You're right, I referenced here: http://www.energyfie...au-vitaminwater which said they did. But i checked the official site and they did not include ginseng. My bad...

[MasterHerb]

What would be the best time table to take Zembrin+Armodafinil(CILETP) with Piracetam, Lecithin,Gingko, and Picamilon?

Edited by MasterHerb, 03 June 2013 - 03:08 AM.

[MasterHerb]

Ok here is what I am going with.....

Morning:

New Chapter Every Man's One Daily Vitamin

New Chapter Fish Pills Focus Blend(220mg DHA and 180mg of EPA, 300 mg of lemon balm, 50mg of holy basil, and 70mg of sage)

New Chapter Probiotic All Flora(contains 125mg of artichoke)

Smart Drugs for Thought Piracetam-800mg(probably will increase eventually)

NOW Lecithin-1200mg(plan to rotate with 300mg of alpha gpc)

Swanson Gingko Biloba 60mg

Jarrow Uridine(UMP-250mg)

Solgar Vitamin E- 400iu

Quantum Migralief(300mg of magnesium)

Afternoon:

Smart Drugs for Thought Piracetam-800mg(probably will increase eventually)

NOW Lecithin-1200mg(plan to rotate with 300mg of alpha gpc)

Swanson Gingko Biloba 60mg

Night:

Jarrow Uridine(UMP-250mg)

Zyrtec

Quantum Migralief(300mg of magnesium)

New Chapter Probiotic All Flora(contains 125mg of artichoke)

New Chapter Mind Force(500mg of lion's mane, 200mg of reishi, 100mg of cordyceps, among other mushrooms)

As needed:

Armodafinil-50mg(from Desired Meds)

Zembrin-25mg(from iherb)

Picamilon-150mg(from Serious Nutrition Solutions)

New Chapter Cinnamon Force-as needed before meals(contains 140mg of cinnamon)

Edited by MasterHerb, 08 June 2013 - 01:09 AM.

[MasterHerb]

Update:

Morning:

Optimen Vitamin(1 capsule)

New Chapter Fish Pills Focus Blend(220mg DHA and 180mg of EPA, 300 mg of lemon balm, 50mg of holy basil, and 70mg of sage)

New Chapter Probiotic All Flora(contains 125mg of artichoke inulin for what its worth)

Smart Drugs for Thought Piracetam-800mg(probably will increase eventually)

Alpha GPC 300mg

Swanson Gingko Biloba 60mg

Quantum Migrelief (180 mg of magnesium as citrate and oxide, 50mg puracol,200mg of riboflavin )


Afternoon:


Smart Drugs for Thought Piracetam-800mg(probably will increase eventually)

Alpha GPC 300mg

Swanson Gingko Biloba 60mg


Night:

Zyrtec

Quantum Migrelief(180 mg of magnesium as citrate and oxide, 50mg puracol,200mg of riboflavin)

New Chapter Probiotic All Flora(contains 125 mg of artichoke inulin for what its worth)

New Chapter Mind Force(500mg of lion's mane, 200mg of reishi, 100 mg of cordyceps, among other mushrooms)

Optimen Vitamin(1 capsule)


As needed:

Armodafinil-50mg(from Desired Meds)

Zembrin-25mg(from iherb)

Ceylon Cinnamon -as needed before meals(contains 500mg of Ceylon cinnamon)

Artichoke Extract-(Jarrow) 500mg with meals


In the Works:

ISRIB(group buy on order)

ALCAR 500mg (havent decided on this one yet still doing some research)

Demiurge-Phenypiracetam 100mg(on order)

Axon-also on order (140mg hederagenin and 60mg of caffeine per capsule)


Not in use:

NALT- 350mg (Jarrow)

Neurozyme (New Chapter)

Uridine- 250 UMP (Jarrow)

Vitamin E- 400iu (Solgar)

Edited by MasterHerb, 05 July 2013 - 07:19 PM.