709 replies to this topic

[Jbac]

Finally, for those who downvoted my mentioning of the safety of this compound, you seriously need to reconsider your goals if you don't care about the safety of research chemicals.

I believe it's widely understood that when studies on an 'alternative' drug (in financial conflict with the major blockbuster drugs) are abruptly and permanently halted because a couple people got blips on their EKG or bad marks on their liver tests, it's just a cover up. That's probably why they downvoted you.

[Jbac]

I think the main safety concern is whether the supplier is trustworthy enough to not leave poisonous solvents and heavy metals in the product, especially if it was synthesized in China. Even if we get a third party analysis, the supplier won't refund our money just because we found lead and toluene in their product. The idea is to somehow verify their trustworthiness before purchasing.

[Missjess]

I think someone should try to buy it directly from the makers, and pretend that they are a research company looking to do research for something...

[tritium]

I believe it's widely understood that when studies on an 'alternative' drug (in financial conflict with the major blockbuster drugs) are abruptly and permanently halted because a couple people got blips on their EKG or bad marks on their liver tests, it's just a cover up.

Good point. It then must be completely safe if only a small fraction of the group had minor complications and if the study was ended prematurely due to conflict of interests.

[addx]

Well, I already thought some about this. I am scared to take something produced in china. But I also have so much faith in the research I put in this and there's no other way to get it proven other than to wait 5 years, 10 years for someone to produce a pure kappa opioid antagonist and does all the necessary trials.

I thought of buying hamsters or something, stressing them to learned helplessness (unavoidable foot shocks or something) and then giving them some JDTic(they need far smaller dosages) and see if it fixes the learnt helplessness. If it does, then it holds promise to do what I expect it to do from all the research. I'd then give them an "overdose"(compared to the dose I would give myself) to see how they take for example 10 of my planned doses at the time. If they remain normal, I think I'd feel safe to take a single dose. After that, all bets are off. Naturally, this measure will not help with any possible "long-incubating impurities" that take a long time to produce effects. But I feel the risk would be considerably reduced. First off, chance of outright fraud(completely wrong chemical) would be reduced by the drug showing its effects on learned helplessness of hamsters. Outright toxicity would be shown from the hamster overdosing.

I would very much appreciate some of you trying to perform the same safety measures and reporting. If anyone has any lab friends, it'd be nice if they can disclose the nature of impurities.

Edited by addx, 06 February 2014 - 11:07 AM.

[lammas2]

Well, it was me who put the minus rep on the safety comment. No hard feelings. It's just that the safety has discussed many times in this thread and if you had paid attention then you should know that NOONE knows about the safety of this compound and it's all on your own risk. If you are not willing to take this risk, abstain from buying rather unresearched chemicals.

I actually wouldn't be very concerned about the purity. Even if it's only like 80% pure, the dosage is too small to make a big difference: lets say that the other 20% is pure lead (what a crappy synthesis!), so 100ug dosage will provide you with 20ug lead. Food in the US contains 0.02-0.4 ppm lead, lets say about 0.2 ppm average. 0.2 ppm translates to 0,2 ug/g. So when you eat 100g of regular food, you will get the same amount of lead that you would get from a daily dose of JDTic.

As for solvents like toluene. Did you know that toluene is a volatile substance and evaporates quickly?

[formergenius]

+1 lammas2; I couldn't have put it better myself.

Just putting this in perspective:

Safety results were unremarkable with the notable exception that two subjects each experienced a single event of multiple beats of non-sustained ventricular tachycardia.
...
Both subjects were asymptomatic and without sequelae.
...
No apparent differences were observed between the 6 placebo and 6 JDTic subjects with respect to clinical chemistry, hematology, urinalysis,vital signs, WSF, or 12 lead ECG parameters.

IMO sounds benign.

Edited by formergenius, 06 February 2014 - 04:27 PM.

[socialpiranha]

I'm not worried about impurities at all,but i do trust the safety measures put in place by the industry, they have stricken a good balance between safety and progress simply because a good balance is most profitable. I agree that there's probably a very small chance of problems but there is a possibility of sudden death, that's why they stopped even when side effects were "unremarkable". Unless you believe there's some kind of conspiracy, they gave up the development of a very profitable drug because they thought it was too dangerous to proceed and you can bet they push the profit side vs the safety side as much as they can.

I would be fine with testing it myself but knowing that it could cause sudden death and our test group would be at least twice as big as the one in the study, i dunno if i'm willing to be the one responsible for facilitating it. I'm paranoid enough about the legality as it is, If there was a death and an investigation i would be fucked, My identity is not concealed at all. not to mention that i would feel terrible and responsible for it.

[KieranA001]

I know this sounds like a stupid question, but I'm a noob when it comes to chemicals. Will the purity effect how the JDTic acts? I mean like, will the structue not be as good quality or something, or does it just mean lots of unneeded chemicals are left over in with the JDTic ? If someone could clarify, it would be good. :-)

[neuroatypicow]

SocialPirahna, i would furnish you with a signed declaration of non-liability and informed consent if it would ease your reservations. we're all consenting adults here, and i'd make it known to my lawyer/emergency contacts/family/eggsaladsandwich that even if i were to plop over dead, that i innure you of any responsibility, that i would have gotten my hands on it myself direct from the lab if i weren't so lazy and scatterbrained. any fault or liability would be mine.

[Jbac]

I'm personally not worried about purity at all; I think many people here buy nootropics, bulk supplement powders, and research chemicals all the time from independent merchants without worrying about COAs or sending it to a lab for testing, so JDtic shouldn't be any different.

The standard way to protect yourself from liability is to make the buyer or receiver agree that it's for research purposes and not for human consumption.

[Missjess]

Who doesn't someone buy it directly from the place that makes it and just say it's for research purposes...that way we know it's pure

[KieranA001]

Who doesn't someone buy it directly from the place that makes it and just say it's for research purposes...that way we know it's pure

Because even if you do that, they still wouldn't give it to you because you have to be a registered company.

[Missjess]

Just make up a fake email...a company name email and pretend u r using it to research it's properties for the treatment of a disorder or something

It could work..

[Jbac]

Sorry to discourage you socialpiranha but if you're seriously concerned about liability, my advice is to refund everyone's payment, delete this thread if possible, create a new thread and payitsquare page, and make it very clear to everyone at the point of payment that this is strictly for research purposes and not for human consumption. It would help if you as the distributor didn't discuss or encourage human consumption in the group buy thread or even in private messages/emails to the recipients.

[KieranA001]

Who even said it was for human consumption ? I think everyone here knows the effects of the drug, that it's their own responsibility when buying it and how they use it. It just needs to be made clear that, when using this stuff for "research purposes" you need to do the "research".

[Missjess]

Well I know someone who recently purchased some from them and he made the whole thing up....he tried it but it didn't rlly help him for his problems.

[socialpiranha]

Yeah JBAC i suppose that's what i will have to do, from now on none of us are planning on consuming it and any discussion of effects is purely hypothetical.

Missjess, That is what we are doing but there is no one place that makes it, it is not produced by a pharmaceutical company just synthesis labs who provide it for research purposes, I favor the companies who already have it in stock because they made it on speculation of selling it for human or animal studies, so they probably have acceptable impurity ratios. That's why i like chemscene, they are an american company who have it in stock. The ideal situation would be to be able to order directly from them unfortunately they require a w9 to prove your a research company.I have a company who will act as a proxy but it will cost twice as much and its just another company we risk trusting.

[KieranA001]

Yeah JBAC i suppose that's what i will have to do, from now on none of us are planning on consuming it and any discussion of effects is purely hypothetical.

Missjess, That is what we are doing but there is no one place that makes it, it is not produced by a pharmaceutical company just synthesis labs who provide it for research purposes, I favor the companies who already have it in stock because they made it on speculation of selling it for human or animal studies, so they probably have acceptable impurity ratios. That's why i like chemscene, they are an american company who have it in stock. The ideal situation would be to be able to order directly from them unfortunately they require a w9 to prove your a research company.I have a company who will act as a proxy but it will cost twice as much and its just another company we risk trusting.

Agreed, when it comes to the other company that we have to go thought I guess it just depends on how well known they are. We don't want another vlk type situation on are hands. He lost his money and he didn't receive the NSI-189 for his group buy. But I agree, chemscene is pretty decent and I'm happy to only receive 2.5mg per $100. Make a new group and delete this one and add all of us to it. :-)

Unless anyone else has a better vendor ? :-)

Edited by KieranA001, 06 February 2014 - 06:46 PM.

[Missjess]

He bought it from here: http://www.medchemex....com/JDTic.html
All he did was make a fake email address and say he was a research company and I think his friend linked his number to a company so if they called that company it wud call him haha...don't think they rang at all but yeah he managed to get it .

[socialpiranha]

Sorry to discourage you socialpiranha but if you're seriously concerned about liability, my advice is to refund everyone's payment, delete this thread if possible, create a new thread and payitsquare page, and make it very clear to everyone at the point of payment that this is strictly for research purposes and not for human consumption. It would help if you as the distributor didn't discuss or encourage human consumption in the group buy thread or even in private messages/emails to the recipients.

I guess i could just delete this thread and deactivate the payitsquare page before we order.

[Jbac]

As far as I know, when it comes to avoiding liability, the key is to make the receiver informed of the risks and agree to not use it for medical purposes at the time of payment. You see this everywhere online, experimental herbs are sold as incense and research chemicals are sold for research purposes; the warnings are all there in bold before you enter your payment info, and "by placing your order you agree to blah blah".

I guess i could just delete this thread and deactivate the payitsquare page before we order.

That'd probably work too.

[Missjess]

Yes agreed !

We could all send u money via paypal just as a friend payment or gift payment

[KieranA001]

Why do you have to deactivate the payitsquare thing ? cannot you just delete this topic and make a new one without involving humun consumption then just send them the money and then delete the payitsquare thing. Otherwise, wouldn't we have to resend the money if you delete the payitsquare thing?

Edited by KieranA001, 06 February 2014 - 06:55 PM.

[socialpiranha]

He bought it from here: http://www.medchemex....com/JDTic.html
All he did was make a fake email address and say he was a research company and I think his friend linked his number to a company so if they called that company it wud call him haha...don't think they rang at all but yeah he managed to get it .

I think your friend might be lying, medchemexpress require a purchase order issued from a research facility, i've already tried posing as a research facility with them,

Why do you have to deactivate the payitsquare thing ? cannot you just delete this topic and make a new one without involving humun consumption then just send them the money and then delete the payitsquare thing. Otherwise, wouldn't we have to resend the money if you delete the payitsquare thing?

That's what i meant kieran, you wouldn't have to resend.

[Missjess]

He's not lying I saw him take it on skype! I can double check with him where he got it but I'm pretty sure it was that company!

[Jbac]

Are there any chemical companies at all that are easy to fool with fake business info? I thought Chinese companies would be less strict about confirming it's a research lab.

[socialpiranha]

He's not lying I saw him take it on skype! I can double check with him where he got it but I'm pretty sure it was that company!

Why is this the first time your mentioning this and why hasn't this guy made any posts about it anywhere?

[Missjess]

I don't think he's on here and he only did it recently and he got it 2 days ago or something he was just waiting on to see if he wud get it

[socialpiranha]

Are there any chemical companies at all that are easy to fool with fake business info? I thought Chinese companies would be less strict about confirming it's a research lab.

Chinese or indian companies are the best bet for selling to individuals but they are also the least trustworthy in terms of purity and honesty just because of the difficulty in enforcing regulations within their respective countries. Which is precisely why the are less worried about getting caught selling to individuals.